The Catholic Sacrament of Penance

[handy]

Solo, thanks for your reply.

I agree with you that Jesus has all the authority. However, the question is, did Jesus extend this authority as one of the responsibilities to church leaders.

Reading the texts in question, the simple interpretation is that Jesus is saying to Peter, and in other texts to the disciples, that they have the power to bind or loose one from their sins. I don't see where the whole idea that they are binding or loosing Satan or demons is coming into play in these passages. This is clearest in the passage in Matthew 18 where the context is a brother who sins. The progression is first go to the sinning brother in private, then take one or two with you to rebuke the brother, then take it to the church, and if he refuses to listen to the church then he is to be as an outcast. This is the context in which the binding/loosing is put into. Now the first thing that strikes me in this passage is this: You stated that there are only two types of people in this earth, believers and unbelievers. But, Jesus is speaking of a 'brother' someone who is a believer. If the binding and loosing is speaking of demonic activity, are you then saying that a brother, someone who is born-again can have both demons and the Holy Spirit at the same time?

You stated, "Forgiveness of sins comes at the point of an unbeliever becoming a believer through the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the “keys to heavenâ€Â, whereupon one is forgiven of his/her sins by God Almighty."

If Jesus was speaking of the Gospel here, rather than the specific authority of binding or loosing one from their sins, why did He say to him, "Whatever YOU shall bind...whatever YOU shall loose...?

Another passage to consider is James 5:13-20.

Is anyone among you sick? Let him call for the elders of the church, and let them pray over him, anionting him with oil in the name of the Lord; and the prayer offered in faith will restore the one who is sick, and the Lord will raise him up, and if he has committed sins, they will be forgiven him. Therefore confess your sins to one another, and pray for one another, so that you may be healed. The effective prayer of a righteous man can accomplish much. Elijah was a man with a nature like ours, and he prayed earnestly that it might not rain; and it did not rain on the earth for three years and six months. And he prayed again, and the sky poured rain, and the earth produced its fruit.
My brethren, if any among you strays from the truth, and one turns him back, let him know that he who turns a sinner from the error of his way will save his soul from death, and will cover a multitude of sins.

Solo, perhaps I'm taking a too simplistic approach to your post, but it seems as though you are saying that once one becomes a believer, once one has entered into the kingdom, then the whole sin issue is over and done with. However, the passage in Matthew 18 and this passage in James seems to indicate that believers do need to deal with sin. Now I want to make it clear that I don't believe the RCC teaching that one must confess every sin committed or else they will have to go to purgatory to be finally cleansed before going to heaven. But, I do see that we believers do need to deal with our sins that we commit after our conversions. I think the Scriptures are teaching us in these passages that we, as believers who sin need to confess our sins to one another, and that if we see a brother in sin, we need to reach out to turn him back.

What I have questioned my Catholic friends about these passages is whether or not the authority to forgive sins rests solely with church elders or do all believers hold this authority? Passages such as John 20:23, Matthew 16:19 and James 5:14 seem to indicate it's just the church elders. But Matthew 18 and James 5:16 and 19 and the passage that was shared in Matthew 9 seems to indicate we all share this responsibility.

 

[thessalonian]

I don't believe the RCC teaching that one must confess every sin committed or else they will have to go to purgatory to be finally cleansed before going to heaven

That would have to be the Roundtable Congregational Church your talking about because the Catholic Church doesn't teach this.

1 John 5:16-17
"If you see your brother or sister committing what is not a mortal sin, you will ask, and God will give life to such a one- to those whose sin is not mortal. There is sin that is mortal; I do not say you should pray about that. All wrongdoing is sin, but there is sin that is not mortal. (NRSV)

Only mortal sin HAS to be confessed. Veniel sins can be forgiven in other ways that include perfect contrition and eucharist. Sanctification of those sins happens though the Eucharist. They can be confessed but don't have to be. Committing them does not guarantee purgatory if they are cleansed before purgatory.

 

[thessalonian]

From the Catechism:

1458 Without being strictly necessary, confession of everyday faults (venial sins) is nevertheless strongly recommended by the Church. Indeed the regular confession of our venial sins helps us form our conscience, fight against evil tendencies, let ourselves be healed by Christ and progress in the life of the Spirit. By receiving more frequently through this sacrament the gift of the Father's mercy, we are spurred to be merciful as he is merciful:
Whoever confesses his sins . . . is already working with God. God indicts your sins; if you also indict them, you are joined with God. Man and sinner are, so to speak, two realities: when you hear "man" - this is what God has made; when you hear "sinner" - this is what man himself has made. Destroy what you have made, so that God may save what he has made. . . . When you begin to abhor what you have made, it is then that your good works are beginning, since you are accusing yourself of your evil works. The beginning of good works is the confession of evil works. You do the truth and come to the light.

 

[jgredline]

From the Catechism:

1458 Without being strictly necessary, confession of everyday faults (venial sins) is nevertheless strongly recommended by the Church. Indeed the regular confession of our venial sins helps us form our conscience, fight against evil tendencies, let ourselves be healed by Christ and progress in the life of the Spirit. By receiving more frequently through this sacrament the gift of the Father's mercy, we are spurred to be merciful as he is merciful:
Whoever confesses his sins . . . is already working with God. God indicts your sins; if you also indict them, you are joined with God. Man and sinner are, so to speak, two realities: when you hear "man" - this is what God has made; when you hear "sinner" - this is what man himself has made. Destroy what you have made, so that God may save what he has made. . . . When you begin to abhor what you have made, it is then that your good works are beginning, since you are accusing yourself of your evil works. The beginning of good works is the confession of evil works. You do the truth and come to the light.

So it sounds like you give more credence to the CC than the Holy Bible.

 

[Solo]

John Gill's Exposition of the Bible

John 20:23

Whose soever sins ye remit

God only can forgive sins, and Christ being God, has a power to do so likewise; but he never communicated any such power to his apostles; nor did they ever assume any such power to themselves, or pretend to exercise it; it is the mark of antichrist, to attempt anything of the kind; who, in so doing, usurps the divine prerogative, places himself in his seat, and shows himself as if he was God: but this is to be understood only in a doctrinal, or ministerial way, by preaching the full and free remission of sins, through the blood of Christ, according to the riches of God's grace, to such as repent of their sins, and believe in Christ; declaring, that all such persons as do so repent and believe, all their sins are forgiven for Christ's sake: and accordingly,

they are remitted unto them;

in agreement with Christ's own words, in his declaration and commission to his disciples; see (Mark 16:16) (Luke 24:47) . On the other hand he signifies, that

whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained:

that is, that whatsoever sins ye declare are not forgiven, they are not forgiven; which is the case of all final unbelievers, and impenitent sinners; who dying without repentance towards God, and faith in the Lord Jesus Christ, according to the Gospel declaration, shall be damned, and are damned; for God stands by, and will stand by and confirm the Gospel of his Son, faithfully preached by his ministering servants; and all the world will sooner or later be convinced of the validity, truth, and certainty, of the declarations on each of these heads, made by them.

 

[Solo]

John Gill's Exposition of the Bible

Matthew 16:19

And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven

By the kingdom of heaven is meant the Gospel, which comes from heaven, declares the king Messiah to be come, speaks of things concerning his kingdom, is the means of setting it up, and enlarging it, displays the riches of his grace, and gives an account of the kingdom of heaven, and of persons' right unto it, and meetness for it. "The keys" of it are abilities to open and explain the Gospel truths, and a mission and commission from Christ to make use of them; and being said to be given to Peter particularly, denotes his after qualifications, commission, work, and usefulness in opening the door of faith, or preaching the Gospel first to the Jews, (Acts 2:1-47) and then to the Gentiles, (Acts 10:1-48) (15:7,14) and who was the first that made use of the keys of evangelical knowledge with respect to both, after he, with the rest of the apostles, had received an enlarged commission to preach the Gospel to all nations, beginning at Jerusalem. Otherwise these keys belonged to them all alike; for to the same persons the keys, and the use of them, appertained, on whom the power of binding and loosing was bestowed; and this latter all the disciples had, as is manifest from (Matthew 18:18) wherefore this does not serve to establish the primacy and power of Peter over the rest of the apostles; nor do keys design any lordly domination or authority; nor did Christ allow of any such among his apostles; nor is it his will that the ministers of his word should lord it over his heritage: he only is king of saints, and head of his church; he has the key of David, with which he opens, and no man shuts, and shuts, and no man opens; and this he keeps in his own hand, and gives it to none. Peter is not the door-keeper of heaven to let in, nor keep out, whom he pleases; nor has his pretended successor the keys of hell and death; these also are only in Christ's hands: though it has been said of the pope of Rome, that if he sends millions of men to hell, none should say to him, what dost thou? but the keys here mentioned are the keys of the kingdom of heaven; or of the Gospel, which was shut up in the Jewish nation, through the ignorance, malice, and calumnies of the Scribes and Pharisees, who would neither embrace it, or enter into the kingdom of God themselves, nor suffer others that were going to enter into it; and through their taking away the key of knowledge, or the right interpretation of the word of God; and through a judicial blindness, which that nation in general was given up to: and this was shut up to the Gentiles through the natural darkness that was spread over them, and through want of a divine revelation, and persons sent of God to instruct them: but now Christ was about, and in a little time he would (for these words, with what follow, are in the future tense) give his apostles both a commission and gifts, qualifying them to open the sealed book of the Gospel, and unlock the mysteries of it, both to Jews and Gentiles, especially the latter. Keys are the ensigns of treasurers, and of stewards, and such the ministers of the Gospel are; they have the rich treasure of the word under their care, put into their earthen vessels to open and lay before others; and they are stewards of the mysteries and manifold grace of God, and of these things they have the keys. So that these words have nothing to do with church power and government in Peter, nor in the pope, nor in any other man, or set of men whatever; nor to be understood of church censures, excommunications, admissions, or exclusions of members: nor indeed are keys of any such similar use; they serve for locking and unlocking doors, and so for keeping out those that are without, and retaining those that are within, but not for the expulsion of any: but here they are used in a figurative sense, for the opening and explaining the truths of the Gospel, for which Peter had excellent gifts and abilities.

And whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth, shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth, shall be loosed in heaven.

This also is not to be understood of binding, or loosing men's sins, by laying on, or taking off censures, and excommunications; but only of doctrines, or declarations of what is lawful and unlawful, free, or prohibited to be received, or practised; in which sense the words, (rtwmw rwoa) , "bound and loosed", are used in the Talmudic writings, times without number, for that which is forbidden and declared to be unlawful, and for that which is free of use, and pronounced to be so: in multitudes of places we read of one Rabbi (rowa) , "binding", and of another (rytm) , "loosing"; thousands, and ten thousands of instances of this kind might be produced; a whole volume of extracts on this head might be compiled. Dr. Lightfoot has transcribed a great many, sufficient to satisfy any man, and give him the true sense of these phrases; and after him to mention any other is needless; yet give me leave to produce one, as it is short, and full, and explains these phrases, and points at the persons that had this power, explaining (Ecclesiastes 12:11) and that clause in it, "masters of the assemblies".


``these (say they) are the disciples of the wise men, who sit in different collections, and study in the law; these pronounce things or persons defiled, and these pronounce things or persons clean, (Nyrytm Nllhw Nyrowa) (wllh) , "these bind, and these loose"; these reject, or pronounce persons or things profane, and these declare them right.''

And a little after,

``get thyself an heart to hear the words of them that pronounce unclean, and the words of them that pronounce clean; the words of them (Nyrowa) , that "bind", and the words of them (Nyrytm) , that "loose"; the words of them that reject, and the words of them that declare it right''

But Christ gave a greater power of binding and loosing, to his disciples, than these men had, and which they used to better purpose. The sense of the words is this, that Peter, and so the rest of the apostles, should be empowered with authority from him, and so directed by his Holy Spirit, that whatever they bound, that is, declared to be forbidden, and unlawful, should be so: and that whatever they loosed, that is, declared to be lawful, and free of use, should be so; and accordingly they bound some things which before were loosed, and loosed some things which before were bound; for instance, they bound, that is, prohibited, or declared unlawful, the use of circumcision, which before, and until the death of Christ, was enjoined the natural seed of Abraham; but that, and all ceremonies, being abolished by the death of Christ, they declared it to be nothing, and of no avail, yea, hurtful and pernicious; that whoever was circumcised, Christ profited him nothing, and that he was a debtor to do the whole law: they affirmed, that the believing Gentiles were not to be troubled with it; that it was a yoke not fit to be put upon their necks, which they, and their fathers, were not able to bear, (Galatians 5:1,3,6) (Acts 15:10,19) . They bound, or forbid the observance of days, months, times, and years; the keeping holy days, new moons, and sabbaths, which had been used in the Jewish church for ages past; such as the first day of the new year, and of every month, the day of atonement, the feasts of the passover, pentecost, and tabernacles, the jubilee year, the sabbatical year, and seventh day sabbath, (Galatians 4:9,10) (Colossians 2:16,17) . They loosed, or declared lawful and free, both civil and religious conversation between Jews and Gentiles; whereas, before, the Jews had no dealings with the Gentiles, nor would not enter into their houses, nor keep company with them, would have no conversation with them; neither eat, nor drink with them; but now it was determined and declared, that no man should be called common, or unclean; and that in Christ Jesus, and in his church, there is no distinction of Jew and Gentile, (Acts 10:28) (11:2,3,18) (Galatians 3:28) . They also loosed, or pronounced lawful, the eating of any sort of food, without distinction, even that which was before counted common and unclean, being persuaded by the Lord Jesus Christ, by the words he said, (Matthew 15:11) . They asserted, that there is nothing unclean of itself; and that the kingdom of God is not meat and drink; or that true religion does not lie in the observance of those things; that every creature of God is good, and fit for food, and nothing to be refused, or abstained from, on a religious account, provided it be received with thanksgiving, (Romans 14:14,17) (1 Timothy 4:4) . And these things now being by them bound or loosed, pronounced unlawful or lawful, are confirmed as such by the authority of God, and are so to be considered by us.

 

[Solo]

John Gill's Exposition of the Bible

Matthew 18:18

Verily I say unto you

To them all, what he had said before to Peter; (See Gill on Matthew 16:19): what is said here, refers to things and not persons, as there also.

 

[Solo]

The 1599 Geneva Study Bible

John 20:23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; [and] whose soever [sins] ye retain, they are retained.

The publishing of the forgiveness of sins by faith in Christ, and the setting forth and proclaiming the wrath of God in retaining the sins of the unbelievers, is the sum of the preaching of the gospel.

 

[Solo]

The 1599 Geneva Study Bible

Matthew 16:19 And I will give unto thee the n keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt o bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven.

The authority of the Church is from God.
A metaphor taken from stewards who carry the keys: and here is set forth the power of the ministers of the word, as (Isaiah 22:22) says, and that power is common to all ministers, as (Matthew 18:18) says, and therefore the ministry of the gospel may rightly be called the key of the kingdom of heaven.
They are bound whose sins are retained; heaven is shut against them, because they do not receive Christ by faith: on the other hand, how happy are they to whom heaven is open, who embrace Christ and are delivered by him, and become fellow heirs with him!

 

[thessalonian]

More dumptrucking of people who tickle the ears of solo. Guess you trust them more than the bible. Sorry, but I don't read dump trucks and I doudt many others read your cut and pastes either.

 

[golfjack]

reply

After reading Eph. 1:21, I believe the source of our authority is found in the resurrection and exalting of Christ by God. Notice in Eph.1:18 that the Holy Spirit through Paul prays that the eyes of The Ephesians' understanding, their spirits, might be opened to these truths. He wanted all churches, all believers, to be enlightened. The truth of the authority of the believer, however, is overlooked by many Christians. In fact, most churches don't even know the believer has any authority.

We see in Eph. 2:5, 6 that deals with our authority. Notice that the Head ( Christ) and the Body ( the Church) were raised together. Furthermore, this authority was conferred not only upon the Head, but also upon the Body, because the Head and the body are one. As far as I know, churches believe that we were raised up together with Christ. Why don't they believe that we've been made to sit together with Him? If part of this verse is so, the whole verse is so.

I have no idea how one can say that binding one's sin or loosing one's sins can is really Biblical. We are talking about auuthority of the Believer to bind the enemy and loose heaven down to earth in the name Of Jesus. Jesus has given us this authority, that's for sure. Yes, I can tell people about the forgiveness of sins, but in no way do I have power to forgive sins. Only Jesus does.

Therefore, the sacrament of penance is absurd.


May God bless, Golfjack

 

[thessalonian]

There are many things that men think are obsurd, like God dying for our sins. Jesus says "whose sins you forgive they are forgiven", yet you also choose to quote the pharasees. "only God can forgive sins".

 

[golfjack]

reply

Thess. That's a clever twisting of scripture to prove your beliefs, as many Catholic doctrine are made to fit.

All Jesus is saying we should forgive others as He has forgiven us. It doesn't say anything about a priest forgiving sins. If someone ask me to forgive him, this I should do. This is not a matter of salvation, but a manner of forgiveness for one another.


May God bless, Golfjack

 

[RobertMazar]

As a practicing Catholic I do not care one iota what the official Catholic teaching is that Communal Reconciliation Service where everybody confesses their sins directly to Christ is unscriptural because that teaching is satanic and from the pit of Hell. The Bible makes it perfectly clear that confession of sins is to be done directly to Christ. Anybody who goes to Individual Confession has a non functioning brain and is incapable of logical and analytical thinking. :smt073

 

[handy]

thessalonian, thanks for the correction. I had that misinterpretation of RCC teaching due to a conversation I had with a Catholic on a different forum. As I'm not Catholic, it's clear that I don't have enough grounding in Catholic theology to be accurately define church doctrine.

Golfjack: "I have no idea how one can say that binding one's sin or loosing one's sins can is really Biblical."

There seem to be certain divisions in the church in which those who hold one POV will always believe those holding the opposing POV as being unBiblical. The whole "Once Saved Always Saved" is a good example of this, so is Predestination. One thing that I've learned though is that those who hold to either interpretation of these types of doctrines do so with the conviction that their interpretation is the correct one. I'm sure that some of the Catholics who read through this are wondering how anyone could wonder how this is not Biblical.

My own background is that of someone who was raised outside of faith, got caught up in a cult which actually used the Scriptures to justify everything they did, to becomming a Calvinist to leaving Calvinistic theology after further study of the Scriptures left open too many unanswered questions. Consequently, I try to search each of these issues as thoroughly as possible, and try not to be dogmatic. I remember when I used to passionately defend the Calvinist doctrine of Limited Atonement, only to study further then...well : , I guess I was wrong.

So, in this issue of whether or not the binding/loosing is speaking of forgiveness of sins, or of the Gospel, I can see both sides. Looking at the passages in question, it seems the simpler more direct interpretation is that the church has been given the responsibility of holding us accountable for our sins. As Jesus said, if a brother remains unrepentant regarding a sin against another, he is to be treated as the Gentiles and tax-gatherers. Keeping in mind always that the hope of forgiveness and reconciliations reaches even to Gentiles and tax-gatherers. But, Jesus' audience knew what He was speaking of, a casting out of fellowship. This casting out of fellowship is also shown in such passages as 1 Corinthians 5:9-13 which states:

I wrote to you in my letter not to associate with immoral people; I did not at all mean with the immoral people of this world, or with the covetous and swindler, or with idolatoers; for then you would have to go out of the world. But actually, I wrote to you not to associate with any so-called brother if he should be an immoral person, or covetous, or an idolater, or a reviler, or a drunkard, or a swindler- not even to eat with such a one. For what I have to do with judgeing outsiders? Do you not judge those who are in the church? But those who are outside, God judges. Remove the wicked man from among yourselves.

Then there is the specific case of Hymenaeus and Alexander, whom Paul delievered over to Satan. (1Timothy 1:20)

It's seems clear that Paul exercised the authority to remove brothers who sinned unrentedly from the church, which is what I've always been taught as the gist of what the binding and loosing is. Important to note however, is that the purpose of this casting out is to ultimately restore one to fellowship. (1 Corinthians 5:5)

So, when I look at this issue with the idea of whether or not the church has the responsibility to hold one accountable for their sins, to either forgive or retain, I see that there is clear biblical evidence that this may indeed be the case.

However, I'm open to learning, which is why I'm here.

BTW, and not to start a fight or anything, but is there truly any difference in seeking better understanding using a commentary or a catechism? Both are put forth by preachers and teachers as their understanding of these things, and both can be either helpful or hurtful depending upon

 

[jgredline]

As a practicing Catholic I do not care one iota what the official Catholic teaching is that Communal Reconciliation Service where everybody confesses their sins directly to Christ is unscriptural because that teaching is satanic and from the pit of Hell. The Bible makes it perfectly clear that confession of sins is to be done directly to Christ. Anybody who goes to Individual Confession has a non functioning brain and is incapable of logical and analytical thinking. :smt073

Carefull there Robert...The Catholic church might just decide to take away your salvation for heretical statements like that :wink:

 

[RobertMazar]

Carefull there Robert...The Catholic church might just decide to take away your salvation for heretical statements like that :wink:

I did not receive my salvation from the RCC. I received my salvation from trusting in Christ alone for salvation by praying to Him and asking Him to become my Savior. :smt021

 

[thessalonian]

Re: reply

Thess. That's a clever twisting of scripture to prove your beliefs, as many Catholic doctrine are made to fit.

All Jesus is saying we should forgive others as He has forgiven us. It doesn't say anything about a priest forgiving sins. If someone ask me to forgive him, this I should do. This is not a matter of salvation, but a manner of forgiveness for one another.


May God bless, Golfjack

Thank you for your personal opinion on that passage. Everyone seems to have them these days. Those words were spoken to the Apostles so what tells you in that passage that their purpose was for the masses? "recieve the holy spirit" indicates a power given. He breathed on them, giving them that power. When did he breathe on everyone else giving them this power? Once again thanks for your personal opinion.

 

[jgredline]

handy,

The key verse of Matthew 16:19 gives us a foundation of truth to build our understanding on. Let us look at it very carefully:

• And I will give unto thee the keys of the kingdom of heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever thou shalt loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Matthew 16:19

The keys to the Kingdom of Heaven is the Gospel of Jesus Christ. When the Gospel of the Kingdom of Heaven is believed upon, one is born again, born of God and will not only see the Kingdom of God but also enter the Kingdom of God.

• 3 Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. 4 Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? 5 Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. John 3:3-4

When considering the teachings of forgiveness, one must ask themselves, “At what point is a person forgiven of their sins?†The answer of course is given by Jesus in John 3. All who have believed are not condemned, but those who have not believed are condemned already.

• 16 For God so loved the world, that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him should not perish, but have everlasting life. 17 For God sent not his Son into the world to condemn the world; but that the world through him might be saved. 18 He that believeth on him is not condemned: but he that believeth not is condemned already, because he hath not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. 19 And this is the condemnation, that light is come into the world, and men loved darkness rather than light, because their deeds were evil. 20 For every one that doeth evil hateth the light, neither cometh to the light, lest his deeds should be reproved. 21 But he that doeth truth cometh to the light, that his deeds may be made manifest, that they are wrought in God. John 3:16-21

Forgiveness of sins comes at the point of an unbeliever becoming a believer through the Gospel of Jesus Christ, the “keys to heavenâ€Â, whereupon one is forgiven of his/her sins by God Almighty. The actions of the Apostles binding or loosing is solely for the purpose of preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ to those that are lost. The Apostles can bind the demonic powers of satan to free those who are in bondage to him, and they can loose them through the Gospel of Jesus Christ.
Next we will look at John 20:21-23. The Greek words that are translated remit and retain are not words that mean the forgiveness of sins. Remember that God forgives ones sins when they believe and are born into the Kingdom of God. What does remit and retain mean in these verses of Scripture?

• 21 Then said Jesus to them again, Peace be unto you: as my Father hath sent me, even so send I you. 22 And when he had said this, he breathed on them, and saith unto them, Receive ye the Holy Ghost: 23 Whose soever sins ye remit, they are remitted unto them; and whose soever sins ye retain, they are retained. John 20:21-23

Jesus is speaking to the disciples explaining that the guidance of the Holy Spirit will give them recognition to understand and preach the Gospel, and that those who believe will have their sins acknowledged to be gone, having left, remitted; however those who do not believe will be acknowledged by the truth to have their sins retained. Only through being born again, being born of God, can one have their sins forgiven in order to gain eternal life. No man can give that exclusive right to another; only God can and will forgive ones sins for access into the Kingdom of God.
The third Scripture reference that is given is Matthew 18:18, and is the same as the previous verses of Scripture in Matthew 16:19:

• Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. Matthew 18:18

One must recognize that Jesus Christ is the head of ALL, and apart from Jesus Christ, man has absolutely no authority. The Holy Spirit gives direction to all through the Word of God as to how to handle each and every situation that one might come up against. The Scripture of Matthew 18:18 concerns the salvation of those to whom the Gospel is preached. Notice in verse twenty that where two or three are gathered in Jesus name, he is there with them.

• 14 Even so it is not the will of your Father which is in heaven, that one of these little ones should perish. 15 Moreover if thy brother shall trespass against thee, go and tell him his fault between thee and him alone: if he shall hear thee, thou hast gained thy brother. 16 But if he will not hear thee, then take with thee one or two more, that in the mouth of two or three witnesses every word may be established. 17 And if he shall neglect to hear them, tell it unto the church: but if he neglect to hear the church, let him be unto thee as an heathen man and a publican. 18 Verily I say unto you, Whatsoever ye shall bind on earth shall be bound in heaven: and whatsoever ye shall loose on earth shall be loosed in heaven. 19 Again I say unto you, That if two of you shall agree on earth as touching any thing that they shall ask, it shall be done for them of my Father which is in heaven. 20 For where two or three are gathered together in my name, there am I in the midst of them.

There are two types of people on the planet earth today; believers and unbelievers, those who will enter the Kingdom of God, and those who will not enter the Kingdom of God. How do they get into the Kingdom of God? By man forgiving their sins? NO! By believing on the name of Jesus Christ whereby God forgives them their sins. Man can only proclaim and acknowledge the Gospel of Jesus Christ whereby all believers are forgiven their sins; by GOD!

Very Good Michael

If I can add a little bit to this...
The words “bind†and “loose†are rabbinic terms meaning “to forbid†and “to permit.â€Â...Now in saying this, we ned to look at the context of this a little closer...

18 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give you the keys of the kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.â€Â

Men, not even the apostles can forgive sin..Only God can forgive sin...
The Catholics would have you and I believe that Peter was the first Pope and upon Peter that Catholic church was built and that ''Peter / pope / cc / has the keys to forgive or bind sins...There is a problem with this....

When Jesus said ''upon this Rock I will build my church'' Jesus was speaking of ''himself''...The CC assumes it was Peter because of the whole Cephas thing, but the Greek is clear... ''Jesus added that on this rock (petra, fem.) He would build His church''...Meaning himself...Eph 2;19 affirms this...
19 Now, therefore, you are no longer strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints and members of the household of God, 20 having been built on the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief cornerstone, 21 in whom the whole building, being fitted together, grows into a holy temple in the Lord, 22 in whom you also are being built together for a dwelling place of God in the Spirit.

If Matt 16:18 was referring to peter as the pope and so forth, then I could see the catholic point of view, However, the Bible is clear...Jesus Christ is the Rock, the foundation, the cornerstone, NOT PETER OR THE POPE OR THE CC.......

Peter was told he would possess the keys and be able to bind and loose people. These were decisions Peter was to implement as he received instruction from heaven, for the binding and loosing occurred there first....I believe it still does...This is carried out in our prayers...The Christian has power through prayer to bind and loose what happens here on earth... Peter simply carried out God’s directions. This privilege of binding and loosing was seen in Peter’s life as he had the privilege on the day of Pentecost to proclaim the gospel and announce to all those who responded in saving faith that their sins had been forgiven. He was able to do the same thing with the household of Cornelius. The same privilege was given all the disciples (John 20:22-23)....

Further more lets take a look at John 20:22
22 And when He had said this, He breathed on them, and said to them, “Receive the Holy Spirit. 23 If you forgive the sins of any, they are forgiven them; if you retain the sins of any, they are retained.â€Â

Here we now see that Jesus not only gave the authority to Peter but all of his disciples and by extension his church....The book of acts is all about the forgiveness of sins and announcing in heavens terms how a person is saved.... If one believes in Jesus, then a Christian has the right to announce his forgiveness.... If a person rejects Jesus’ sacrifice, then a Christian can announce that that person is not forgiven....The perfect tense should be rendered “have been forgiven†instead of “are forgiven,â€Â....and “have been retained†instead of “are retained.†This tense signifies action which is past at the time of speaking, yet with abiding results... Any declaration of forgiveness should be done on the basis that God has forgiven....

and so this now brings us back full circle to Matt 16:18-1918 And I also say to you that you are Peter, and on this rock I will build My church, and the gates of Hades shall not prevail against it. 19 And I will give you the keys of he kingdom of heaven, and whatever you bind on earth will be bound in heaven, and whatever you loose on earth will be loosed in heaven.â€Â

 

[thessalonian]

I like on these threads how they always quote the pharasees "only God can forgive sins". Of course in Matt 9 it makes a big mistake I guess when it says men have the authority to forgive sins.

Let's have a look at an interesting passage.

[7] And he rose and went home.
[8] When the crowds saw it, they were afraid, and they glorified God, who had given such authority to MENNNNNN.

Now was Jesus a man or men?

What is this authority that they are amazed at?

[2] And behold, they brought to him a paralytic, lying on his bed; and when Jesus saw their faith he said to the paralytic, "Take heart, my son; your sins are forgiven."
[3] And behold, some of the scribes said to themselves, "This man is blaspheming."

(same guys who said only God can forgive sins. Most certainly God has to be involded in every sin that is forgiven but let's try not to think in dichotomies here. Can God forgive through men? I think so.)

[4] But Jesus, knowing their thoughts, said, "Why do you think evil in your hearts?
[5] For which is easier, to say, `Your sins are forgiven,' or to say, `Rise and walk'?
[6] But that you may know that the Son of man has authority on earth to forgive sins" -- he then said to the paralytic -- "Rise, take up your bed and go home."

Pretty clear what the authority is. Now why wouldn't it say that only a man has the authority, rather than men? Well because Christ authorized others in John 21 and as a part of the great commission of which this passage was written after these events occured. Men were given the power to forgive sins, or rather God's power is excercised through them.

Jgred, let me repost this and see if you can answer honestly? What is the authority spoken of in Matt 9, quoted above? Was Jesus a man or men? Why the plural?

By the way Catholic penance is entirely dependent on God's forgiveness. I love the twisting that goes on on this board as it in fact makes my job easier for those who are open. They can easily see the distortions.