Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

Bible Study The Coming Lake of Fire and What it Really is, Also Named Hell, and What Day and Night Torment Means

C

cgaviria

Guest
There are many who do not understand what Hell is, otherwise named Gehenna, and also the lake of fire. These are all names that describe one place, which is not the same place as Hades, otherwise known as Sheol. These are two distinct places, one is for the holding place of the souls of men to be resurrected, which is Hades or Sheol, and the other is a final place of punishment for the dead that are resurrected and thrown in it, which is Hell or Gehenna or the lake of fire. Let's first jump into a mention of Hell by Jesus,
And if your eye causes you to stumble, pluck it out. It is better for you to enter the kingdom of God with one eye than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell, where "'the worms that eat them do not die, and the fire is not quenched.' (Mark 9:47-48 [NIV])

Now, this passage corresponds with an old prophecy in Isaiah, which is,
"And they will go out and look on the dead bodies of those who rebelled against me; the worms that eat them will not die, the fire that burns them will not be quenched, and they will be loathsome to all mankind." (Isaiah 66:24 [NIV])

Notice how this prophecy says and they will go out and look "on the dead bodies". You can only have a dead body if you die, therefore the first thing to know about Hell is that everyone that is thrown into this fire dies. Therefore, any notion that men burn endlessly in this fire is already wrong. Now, the next thing to note is that "they" will go out and look on these bodies. Who is "they"? They are mankind, or rather, people, that are still alive on the earth to witness these dead bodies in this fire. So therefore, if people on the earth will see these bodies in the fire, it stands to reason that this fire will exist on the earth, not in some secret chasm in the middle of the earth, where no one would be able to witness the dead bodies in this fire.

Going further, this prophecy goes into more detail describing this as a place where worms do not die and fire is not quenched, but one can more easily understand these two descriptions when one realizes what type of fire this will be. Let's first explain what type of fire this will be, then I will come back to this. Lets look at Revelation,
But the beast was captured, and with it the false prophet who had performed the signs on its behalf. With these signs he had deluded those who had received the mark of the beast and worshiped its image. The two of them were thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulfur. (Revelation 19:20 [NIV])

So this Hell, is also called a fiery lake of burning sulfur. How can fire be a lake? This is because this great lake of fire will be a lake of lava. Lava has the ability to be a fire, yet also be a liquid, hence able to be a "lake". Lava also has sulfur, which gives it's distinctive pungent smell similar to "rotten eggs". If you Google "volcano rotten eggs", you will see for yourself that volcanoes, which have lava, are known to have this pungent smell.

Now, why is knowing that this fire will be a lake of lava also significant? First, because lava is not easily quenched. Lava is not like an ordinary fire that burns and extinguishes once it consumes an object. Lava burns for a very long time and does not need an object, like a piece of wood, to burn. So it stands to reason, that this lava will indeed be an unquenchable fire, especially if there is a constant flow of lava coming from beneath the earth, and thus fulfill the prophecy this this fire "will not be quenched".

Next, how will worms not die in this place? To answer this, one must also understand that lava is not like water, where most things you throw in water will sink. Lava is denser than water, so naturally, any human body that would be thrown in it, will float, and thus fulfill the prophecy that these "dead bodies will be seen", because how could a dead body be seen on this lake of lava if it sinks? So if indeed these dead bodies are floating in this lake of lava, that can be seen by men, it therefore stands to reason that as these bodies would be decomposing on the surface as well, and thus have worms on them, that would thus not die, since the worms would be on the surface of the lava eating the rotting bodies on the surface, and thus fulfill the prophecy in Isaiah "that the worm does not die".

The next matter to discuss, will this lake of lava exist forever? We have already determined that people that are thrown into it die, yet we still have this verse,
Then he will say to those on his left, Depart from me, you who are cursed, into the eternal fire prepared for the devil and his angels. (Matthew 25:41 [NIV])

The word "eternal" in this verse is the Greek word "aionon", which is derived from the word "aion", which means "age", or "eon". A usage of the Greek word "aion" can be found here,
Anyone who speaks a word against the Son of Man will be forgiven, but anyone who speaks against the Holy Spirit will not be forgiven, either in this age or in the age to come. (Matthew 12:32 [NIV])

So here "aion" refers to a specific amount of time with a beginning and an end, which is why this particular verse is rendered as "this age", and then "age to come", since "this forever", and "forever to come" would be nonsensical. Therefore, if "aion" refers to a specific amount of time, then it would stand to reason that "aionion", its adjective counterpart, would also relate to a specific amount of time as well. Yet even so, an "aion" is not a short amount of time, it is indeed a long time, usually in the thousands of years. So therefore, eternal fire is not a correct translation, it should instead be rendered as "eonial fire", meaning a fire that lasts a very long time.

Next, there is the matter of "tormented day and night", as seen in this verse,
And the devil, who deceived them, was thrown into the lake of burning sulfur, where the beast and the false prophet had been thrown. They will be tormented day and night for ever and ever. (Revelation 20:10 [NIV])

And also a similar verse,
And the smoke of their torment will rise for ever and ever. There will be no rest day or night for those who worship the beast and its image, or for anyone who receives the mark of its name." (Revelation 14:11 [NIV])

First, one must understand that the beast and the false prophet are not actual persons, they are nations. So how are two nations thrown into a fire? By throwing it's people into the fire. Now, we know that these two nations correspond to many people, in the millions if not more. So what this prophecy is saying is that there will be millions of people that will be thrown into this lake of lava. Now, why is this of significance? Because it greatly relates to "day and night". Lets look at other examples of day and night used in scripture first,
[9] Sink them, O LORD, and divide their tongues! for I saw lawlessness and dispute in the city. [10] Day and night he shall encircle her upon her walls; and lawlessness and misery will be in the midst of her;
(Psalms 55:9-10 [ABP])
And always, night and day, in the mountains, and in the tombs, he was crying out, and cutting himself with stones. (Mark 5:5 [ABP])

"Day and night" in these verse convey a constant continuance of whatever it is they were doing, yet it doesn't mean they were doing it forever, just that they were doing it without ceasing for many days. So how does this constant continuance of many days relate to millions of people being tossed into this lake of fire? That this tossing of millions of people into this lake of fire will happen gradually, day and night, until all have been tossed into the lake of fire. Why will they be tossed into the lake of fire gradually day and night and not all at once? Because they will all be judged first. Judging all of these millions of people is not a task that will be done in one day, but in many days. If for example, you had 100 people that were to be judged in total, and 10 were judged and punished each day, this judging and punishing would happen day and night for 10 days until all 100 are judged and punished. In fact, the elect will also judge these people and thus partake in the judging of the wicked, as this great task will not be done by only one person, which is why it is said,
Or do you not know that the Lord's people will judge the world? And if you are to judge the world, are you not competent to judge trivial cases? (1 Corinthians 6:2 [NIV])

Not only is the judgment of wicked men done gradually and continually day and night, but also the judging of fallen angels as well, as there are also many angels that have sinned, and will thus be judged gradually and continually day and night until all of them are judged and punished. The judgment of angels occurs at the final white throne judgment. And we also have affirmation that the elect will also judge angels,
Do you not know that we will judge angels? How much more the things of this life! (1 Corinthians 6:3 [NIV])

Next, is the matter of "forever and ever". So we have concluded that "day and night" refers to however long it takes to judge the wicked, so how does "forever and ever" relate to this? Do you recall how we determined earlier that "eternal" is a mistranslation of the word "aion"? The same applies here. The correct rendering of this phrase should've been "eons of the eons", so in all, the text in Revelation 20:10 should read "they will be tormented day and night till the eons of the eons", as the Greek word "eis" can be rendered as "till".
 
T
Next, is the matter of "forever and ever". So we have concluded that "day and night" refers to however long it takes to judge the wicked, so how does "forever and ever" relate to this? Do you recall how we determined earlier that "eternal" is a mistranslation of the word "aion"? The same applies here. The correct rendering of this phrase should've been "eons of the eons", so in all, the text in Revelation 20:10 should read "they will be tormented day and night till the eons of the eons", as the Greek word "eis" can be rendered as "till".
The same Greek "aion" (ever) in Rev. 20:10 is the same Greek "aion" (ever) used to describe God's existence and reign. (Rev. 1:6; 4:9; 4:10; 5:13-14; 7:12; 10:6; 11:15; 14:11; 15:7; 19:3; 20:10; 22:5.. They are all the same Greek "aion" (ever).
Greek "aion" perpetuity;age; eternal; (for) ever (more); with out end. Christ is for "aion" ever. The word "forever" is not in Scripture in original text that I could find.

Nowhere in Scripture does it teach that death of the body is the cessation of all consciousness until the resurrected body.
 
Last edited:
We have always been taught hell is a place where non-believers in God go to for eternity, but according to scripture this is not what hell is. Hell is described as the world of the dead, a place where departed souls go that have died as being lowered in a grave/pit. There they are kept until the return of Christ to either stand in Gods Great White Throne judgment for those who are not found written in the Lambs Book of Life, Rev 20:11-15, or those who have died in Christ that will stand in his judgment to give an account for the things done here on earth, 2 Corinthians 5:10.

God gives us a description as in fire and brimstone which can be used literal as in Sodom and Gomorrah burned to ashes and as a metaphor for torment, suffering, punishment or as Matthew 8:12 describes it as outer darkness. The New Testament description is a bottomless pit (abyss) (Revelation 20:3), a lake (Revelation 20:14), darkness (Matthew 25:30), death (Revelation 2:11), destruction (2 Thessalonians 1:9), everlasting torment (Revelation 20:10), a place of wailing and gnashing of teeth (Matthew 25:30), and a place of gradated punishment (Matthew 11:20-24; Luke 12:47-48; Revelation 20:12-13), everlasting fire Matthew 25:41, everlasting punishment, Matthew 25:46, lake of fire burning with brimstone.

Strong's Exhausted Concordance: Hell
Hebrew # 7585 Sheol, Hades, or the world of the dead, grave, hell, pit
Greek # 86 place of departed souls, grave, hell
Greek # 1067 Gehenna, the Valley of the sons of Hinnom South of Jerusalem, figuratively and literal of place of punishment.

The English word hell, back in 1611, meant about the same as Hades, that being covered or unseen as in grave/pit. We do not see those in the grave as they are unseen to the eye as they are covered with dirt, or some placed in a tomb. The word hell is derived from the Saxon helan, to cover, and signifying merely the covered, or invisible place. The habitation of those who have gone from the visible terrestrial region to the world of spirits.

Jude 1:7 clearly states an example of eternal fire. This is the same Greek word that is used for everlasting fire and everlasting punishment as used in Matthew 18:8 and Matthew 25:41,46 (Notice: The place, as no real name is given, where the unsaved go is everlasting punishment, and not everlasting punishing. The punishment is eternal in its results, not in its duration.

Unquenchable fire is a fire that cannot be quenched or put out until everything in its path is burned up.

Gehenna - Valley of Hinnom, Old Testament as Gai Ben-Hinnom, Tophet, in the Talmud as Gehinnam

The oldest historical reference to the valley is found in Joshua 15:8, 18:16 which describe tribal boundaries. The next chronological reference to the valley is at the time of King Ahaz of Judah who sacrificed his sons there according to 2 Chron. 28:3. Isaiah does not mention Gehenna by name, but the burning place, Isaiah 30:33 in which the Assyrian army are to be destroyed, may be read Topheth, and the final verse of Isaiah which concerns the corpses of the same or a similar battle, Isaiah 66:24 , where their worm does not die. Also read Jeremiah 19:6-8 as a reference to the dead bodies that are thrown over the wall of Jerusalem into Gehenna/Tophet.

Flavius Josephus describes in his book of wars:
Now the seditious at first gave orders that the dead should be buried out of the public treasury, as not enduring the stench of their dead bodies. But afterwards, when they could not do that, they had them cast down from the walls into the valleys beneath. (War 5.12.3).

Matthew 5:29, 30; Mark 9:43-48 Jesus uses the prophetic symbolic of Gehenna as the worm did not die there, meaning that there were always new maggots going through their life-cycles, feeding on the dead corpse. Also note Isaiah 66:24.

In my own minds eye I see the lake of fire as a place where those who have rejected God, whether they be good or bad people, burning in a torment (fire and brimstone could be a metaphor for torment) of having to see those who have heard the call of God and have accepted Him and now live in a place of paradise with all the fullness of God in all His glory. No more tears, no more hurts, pain sickness, etc, etc. Those in the lake of fire are outside the realm of God continuing in all their sin, sickness, hurts, pain tears, etc. etc., but can see those who are in the glory of the Lord like looking through a window and wanting what others have, but will never have it and this is their torment for eternity as they are constantly consumed with the fire that burns in their souls for what they have rejected and now to late to receive.

God said that he would that none should perish, but those who have rejected God and His word are those who will be cast into the lake of fire for eternity by their own choice, even if they do not believe in Heaven or Hell, we believe because we know that Gods word is truth and does not come back void in our lives.
 
We have always been taught hell is a place where non-believers in God go to for eternity, but according to scripture this is not what hell is. Hell is described as the world of the dead, a place where departed souls go that have died as being lowered in a grave/pit. There they are kept until the return of Christ to either stand in Gods Great White Throne judgment for those who are not found written in the Lambs Book of Life, Rev 20:11-15, or those who have died in Christ that will stand in his judgment to give an account for the things done here on earth, 2 Corinthians 5:10.

The teaching and witness that Christ gives us of Lazarus and the rich man is not a parable. Christ gives the name Lazarus (a person), and a rich man. (Luke 16: 19-31) When the rich man died and was buried, he is in Hades. Hades is a place prior to the lake of fire that the condemned are kept till the Great White Throne Judgment in Revelation. From Hades, the condemned can see the LAKE of FIRE in (Rev. 20:10) anticipating their eternity. I would even say that the flames were liking at their feet. Notice that he is totally aware of and experiencing the torment. Notice something else, Christ does not know his name! (Matt. 25:12)
 
Hi Douglas Summers,

All of Luke Chapter 16 is a parable that Jesus is using to teach us. Just because Jesus uses the name Lazarus does not make the story an actual event. Can those who have died and been buried literally speak to those who are alive or even drink and eat! The scriptures have already explained what heaven, hell, Hades and the lake of fire are as I have given those scriptures. Many think it is literal as this is the only parable where Jesus uses an actual name.
 
Hi Douglas Summers,

All of Luke Chapter 16 is a parable that Jesus is using to teach us. Just because Jesus uses the name Lazarus does not make the story an actual event. Can those who have died and been buried literally speak to those who are alive or even drink and eat! The scriptures have already explained what heaven, hell, Hades and the lake of fire are as I have given those scriptures. Many think it is literal as this is the only parable where Jesus uses an actual name.
I'm sorry you do not believe it as it is taught. If it were a parable, He would have said so. To understand it in it's Spirit is to know Christ in the Scriptures. What I'am saying is, knowing Scripture and knowing Christ in the Scripture's are two different things. One is Spiritual, the others is as a scholar. I'm positive it's not a parable, but each one has to receive it as he sees.
 
Back
Top