The Communion of Saints

[JLB]

Judging my intentions has absolutely nothing to do with biblical observations. And rash judgement is a sin against the eight commandment "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour." (Exodus 20:16) How sad that you think this is a sin that I "made up".

Discerning your beliefs by comparing them with scripture is called discernment.

JLB

 

[Tradidi]

where do get this from i mean serious the Model prayer aka Lord prayer the disciples asked to be taught how to to pray it starts out as our father who art in heaven . the Holy spirit interceded our prayers. the saints in heaven does not answer prayer . i dont have time to go into every thing i disagree with .i ma going to be been up since 4:45 a.m wook up at 3 am by a 5 year old getting in bed with us.. im tired

Is anyone forcing you to reply to this thread? If you're tired, go and have a good sleep. But if you like to discuss the doctrine of the Communion of Saints, the least you could do is read the OP and try to raise arguments that haven't been dealt with yet.

 

[Tradidi]

I see you capitalized Saints.
Does that mean the Catholic Church considers saints to be God status?
Please consider that all true Christians are saints.

I use saints with a lower case to refer to the living saints on earth, and with a capital to refer to the Saints in heaven. The Saints in heaven have the "status" that God gave them.

Please include scripture with your statements like this.
That they have a God status like Christ whereby their reference should be capitalized like Christ.

When you decide to apply the capital S to Saints rather than what the Bible does, you are indicating that’s what you are promoting.

Discerning your beliefs by comparing them with scripture is called discernment.

You asked a question, I gave you an answer, you ignored my answer and accused me of promoting that the Saints in heaven have a "God status." I call that a sin against the 8th commandment. But don't worry, Catholics are used to being treated like this by other "Christians." I trust that God is paying attention and will sort it all out, in His good time.

 

[jerry63935]

Is anyone forcing you to reply to this thread? If you're tired, go and have a good sleep. But if you like to discuss the doctrine of the Communion of Saints, the least you could do is read the OP and try to raise arguments that haven't been dealt with yet.

easy there with the attitude i can get one to.. no body forces me on anything in this forum. nothing in scripture instructs us to pray to mary or any one else in heaven .

 

[jerry63935]

John 14:13

13 And whatever you ask in My name, that I will do, that the Father may be glorified in the Son.


no mary she is dead in heaven with a glorified body . john 14:13 puts a BIG thumbs down on your claim.

Acts 1:13-15 is the last place mary is mentioned she and the other women . were praying with the men


13 And when they were come in, they went up into an upper room, where abode both Peter, and James, and John, and Andrew, Philip, and Thomas, Bartholomew, and Matthew, James the son of Alphaeus, and Simon Zelotes, and Judas the brother of James.

14 These all continued with one accord in prayer and supplication, with the women, and { Mary the mother of Jesus, ] and with his brethren.

15 And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)


at paul conversion acts 9:

Meanwhile, Saul was still breathing out murderous threats against the Lord’s disciples. He went to the high priest 2 and asked him for letters to the synagogues in Damascus, so that if he found any there who belonged to the Way, whether men or women, he might take them as prisoners to Jerusalem. 3 As he neared Damascus on his journey, suddenly a light from heaven flashed around him. 4 He fell to the ground and heard a voice say to him, “Saul, Saul, why do you persecute me?”

5 “Who are you, Lord?” Saul asked.

“I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting,” he replied. 6 “Now get up and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.”

7 The men traveling with Saul stood there speechless; they heard the sound but did not see anyone. 8 Saul got up from the ground, but when he opened his eyes he could see nothing. So they led him by the hand into Damascus. 9 For three days he was blind, and did not eat or drink anything.

10 In Damascus there was a disciple named Ananias. The Lord called to him in a vision, “Ananias!”

“Yes, Lord,” he answered.

11 The Lord told him, “Go to the house of Judas on Straight Street and ask for a man from Tarsus named Saul, for he is praying. 12 In a vision he has seen a man named Ananias come and place his hands on him to restore his sight.”

13 “Lord,” Ananias answered, “I have heard many reports about this man and all the harm he has done to your holy people in Jerusalem. 14 And he has come here with authority from the chief priests to arrest all who call on your name.”

15 But the Lord said to Ananias, “Go! This man is my chosen instrument to proclaim my name to the Gentiles and their kings and to the people of Israel. 16 I will show him how much he must suffer for my name.”

17 Then Ananias went to the house and entered it. Placing his hands on Saul, he said, “Brother Saul, the Lord—Jesus, who appeared to you on the road as you were coming here—has sent me so that you may see again and be filled with the Holy Spirit.” 18 Immediately, something like scales fell from Saul’s eyes, and he could see again. He got up and was baptized, 19 and after taking some food, he regained his strength.

Saul in Damascus and Jerusalem
Saul spent several days with the disciples in Damascus.

please note mary is not mentioned at all. its all Jesus all Lord . Mary her self has no spiritual authority to answer prayers. she is not the intercessory the Holy Spirit does that

Likewise the Spirit also helpeth our infirmities: for we know not what we should pray for as we ought: but the Spirit itself maketh intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered. Romans 8:26

i will say this to you like i did in another thread if scripture does not say it..it aint true. Jesus said he was the way truth life ...NOT Mary

 

[JLB]

You asked a question, I gave you an answer, you ignored my answer and accused me of promoting that the Saints in heaven have a "God status." I call that a sin against the 8th commandment. But don't worry, Catholics are used to being treated like this by other "Christians." I trust that God is paying attention and will sort it all out, in His good time.

So it's not the sin of "rash judgement" anymore, now its stealing?

Let me get this straight... because I have called out praying to the spirits of the dead as idolatry, a violation of the 1st commandment, im guilty of stealing?

I asked you to please use scripture when promoting your catholic doctrine of praying Mary and saints.

Please post scripture that says we are to pray to Mary or the saints.



JLB

 

[Tradidi]

So it's not the sin of "rash judgement" anymore, now its stealing?

Let me get this straight... because I have called out praying to the spirits of the dead as idolatry, a violation of the 1st commandment, im guilty of stealing?

The 8th commandment: "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour." (Exodus 20:16)

I asked you to please use scripture when promoting your catholic doctrine of praying Mary and saints.

Please post scripture that says we are to pray to Mary or the saints.

See post #1 and #2, plenty of Scripture for you to consider.

 

[JLB]

The 8th commandment: "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour." (Exodus 20:16)

That would be the 9th Commandment.

 

[JLB]

The 8th commandment: "Thou shalt not bear false witness against thy neighbour." (Exodus 20:16)



See post #1 and #2, plenty of Scripture for you to consider.

No scripture that directs us to pray to Mary or contact the spirits of the deceased saints.



JLB

 

[Tradidi]

That would be the 9th Commandment.

No, that's the 8th commandment. Protestants have messed up the ordering of the commandments as well, so as to be able to find fault with Catholics. Do you see a pattern here?

No scripture that directs us to pray to Mary or contact the spirits of the deceased saints.

It's all there in #1 and #2, but you need to show a little bit of goodwill to try and follow the reasoning. I'm still waiting on you to show me which step of my reasoning is wrong. You can't do it, so you just reject the conclusion.

 

[JLB]

No, that's the 8th commandment. Protestants have messed up the ordering of the commandments as well, so as to be able to find fault with Catholics. Do you see a pattern here?

Yes I see a pattern alright.

Again, I’m not Protestant.


God called me to be His son, and be a joint heir with Jesus Christ. He did this while I was still His enemy.


What could I possibly have to protest?



JLB

 

[JLB]

It's all there in #1 and #2, but you need to show a little bit of goodwill to try and follow the reasoning. I'm still waiting on you to show me which step of my reasoning is wrong. You can't do it, so you just reject the conclusion.

Here is my response, post #3 —


Thank you for taking the time to explain your reasoning and position as to why you and others believe that praying to Mary and the saints is something Christians are to do.


I see you capitalized Saints.

Does that mean the Catholic Church considers saints to be God status?


Please consider that all true Christians are saints.


Likewise the Spirit also helps in our weaknesses. For we do not know what we should pray for as we ought, but the Spirit Himself makes intercession for us with groanings which cannot be uttered.
Now He who searches the hearts knows what the mind of the Spirit is, because He makes intercession for the saints according to the will of God.
Romans 8:27


As we can see it is the Spirit who makes intercession for us; for the saints.



If you have a scripture where Jesus or Paul urges us to pray to Mary or the saints please provide it for us to examine.



As you can see, I asked for a scripture to support your belief that praying to the spirits of the deceased is biblical, which you know is not, and since then you have attacked me with your fallacies.


I sure you believe your Catholic dogma over scripture. If you choose to bow down and worship statues, pray to the deceased spirits rather than God, and claim that those who don’t do these things are anathema, then I suppose that is your right.


Do you agree that all Christians are called saints, or is it just who are Catholic?



JLB

 

[JLB]

No, that's the 8th commandment.

“Honor your father and your mother, that your days may be long upon the land which the LORD your God is giving you.

“You shall not murder.

“You shall not commit adultery.

“You shall not steal.

“You shall not bear false witness against your neighbor.

“You shall not covet your neighbor’s house; you shall not covet your neighbor’s wife, nor his male servant, nor his female servant, nor his ox, nor his donkey, nor anything that is your neighbor’s.” Exodus 20:12-17



JLB