The Corporate World

[Guest]

sucks. psychopathic people acting like the world ain't already destroyed.

 

[Danus]

Do you work for a corporation urk?

 

[Guest]

2 corps for the past 12 years.

 

[Milk-Drops]

Corporations by themselves aren't evil. Its the intent and level of detachment of the owners of the corporation and share holders that leads to what we could call evil. For the most part a corporation is concerned with its bottom line and pleasing its investors. Profits need to be made to justify the expenses and to pay back the investors. The concerns the corporation has with it employees is a balance of whether it will effect the bottom line and current federal and/ or state regulations. Now the actual "evil" part comes from people doing what they deem necessary to rise to the top of these corporations. This all depends on what the person seeks to do and how they wish to obtain it. Its brutal and wild because that is the nature of seeking power. It should be noted that you are only as valuable as you allow yourself to be in a company. You also have to be aggressive and have your ethics straight.

Corporations aren't evil, the pursuit of power at all costs is.

 

[divinecloud7]

Traditionally I would like to believe that anything that manufactures man-made products could be construed as unnecessary to an extent. Most corporations tether and entitle themselves to the general practice of producing man-made material goods. These things(most)have perpetually saturated people with all kinds of physical related illness or trauma. As an example here are a few.......

Nicotine products
Automobiles or vehicular devices with combustion/diesel drivetrains
toxic waste from manufacturing plants
non-toxic waste from manufacturing plants
unrecycled plastics or metals
processed consumables
unnecessary paper products

In general just to name a few.

Corporate entities that produce any form of waste definitely can be ascertained as non-essential and offer only an agenda that could be in alignment with the enemy. "I mean after all....How many if at all different varieties of TV's, microwaves, pots and pans, vehicles and apparel do we need?!"

Mark 8:33-37

King James Version (KJV)

<sup class="versenum">33 </sup>But when he had turned about and looked on his disciples, he rebuked Peter, saying, Get thee behind me, Satan: for thou savourest not the things that be of God, but the things that be of men.
<sup class="versenum">34 </sup>And when he had called the people unto him with his disciples also, he said unto them, Whosoever will come after me, let him deny himself, and take up his cross, and follow me.
<sup class="versenum">35 </sup>For whosoever will save his life shall lose it; but whosoever shall lose his life for my sake and the gospel's, the same shall save it.
<sup class="versenum">36 </sup>For what shall it profit a man, if he shall gain the whole world, and lose his own soul?
<sup class="versenum">37 </sup>Or what shall a man give in exchange for his soul?

Remember whatever we do here on earth, do it for the heavenly father's glory and praise....giving unto GOD and his son JESUS that which they deserve.

Praise be to GOD and his son lord JESUS CHRIST forever>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>

 

[jasoncran]

so volcanoes are demonic? cause they pollute. I wouldn't call the darkening of the sun healthy

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Most churches are corporations.

 

[Danus]

Corporations by themselves aren't evil. Its the intent and level of detachment of the owners of the corporation and share holders that leads to what we could call evil. For the most part a corporation is concerned with its bottom line and pleasing its investors.

I tend to agree.


I have worked for several major corporations in my industry, as a low level employee, mid-management, upper management and sales/marketing; where I am now. In all those various levels of positions I've noticed the nature of the corporation, as I perceive it, did not change.

I've meet and worked around all sorts of people; some very warm heart, gracious and kind, and some who where absolute sociopaths. Many of the sociopaths where usually the most successful, in terms of position, salary and such.

Often people begin to see something about "the corporation". They discover it does not actually care about your well-being as an employee; as long as there is no legal liability on them when it comes to your well-being, then you're fine. However employees often don't think so. Never the less, people have to make a decision when they discover this truth; am I going to go along and get along, or am I going to become apathetic, contempt and lash out in some way? The later will get your fired pretty much, and that will be that. I try to go along, as long as it's ethical, or moral.(I make a clear distinction between the two).

There is a term; "Corporate Slavery" being kicked around as of late. It refers to how corporations sort of own people like slaves in that the corp. has all the power and the slave is sort of beholden to do the corps bidding for their "meals" so to speak.

I reject this term on many levels. Fact is people enslave themselves by believing in a lie to begin with. However, this happens on all levels. It's not just the low man in the corp, it goes all the way to the one person who benefits the most as well. The culprit is not so much the corporation, but covetousness.

People want "things" and they imagine their lives in false ways, yet see work and progress as the means to their own end. So they become willing to sell themselves into their own enslavement for a few dollars more. Once we are exposed to this sin, it fuels our very nature to sin in this way and we usually end up disappointed. Unless we are the sociopaths. Usually works out well for them. Just as they planed.

My company has a nasty habit of taking my accounts and giving them to someone in "corporate". This happened to me last week. I get paid salary plus commission. Many of us do, and I am constantly building accounts to make my bonus, and earn my keep. Recently my largest account was taken from me under the excuse that it would be better managed from the home office, even though it was running well. I even knew they where going behind my back and re-bidding it, so it comes as no surprise to me. My reward for not complaining was a raise to my salary, and an adjustment down to my goal. The guy who got the account now gets something to make up for his lake of performance until he looses it; which he will, in due time. But friends help friends right? Especially when your friend is a VP and got you your position yet you can't sell enough to make your own job worth keeping, but he does not want to look bad for hiring you, so someone like me must take the hit. After all I am the Christian guy who will not complain.

True, I lean on my Lord to help me at work. He always has and always will. I've seen people come and go, yet I remain.

 

[Milk-Drops]

Most churches are corporations.

This is true. However this goes back to what I said about intent. If the church is a corporation for the function of tax codes and such, and for legal reasons, then its just a formality. If its a corporation in the sense of investors, products, and having a bottom line. Then there might be a problem.

 

[Milk-Drops]

Often people begin to see something about "the corporation". They discover it does not actually care about your well-being as an employee; as long as there is no legal liability on them when it comes to your well-being, then you're fine. However employees often don't think so. Never the less, people have to make a decision when they discover this truth; am I going to go along and get along, or am I going to become apathetic, contempt and lash out in some way? The later will get your fired pretty much, and that will be that. I try to go along, as long as it's ethical, or moral.(I make a clear distinction between the two).

I want you to know that agree with most of what you have said here. I think people get appathetic mainly because we are raised in our society and in our nature to care about each other in some way. When it becomes clear to some that the corporation or group dosen't care about them, its a shocking revelation. A lot of human interaction and contact is based on caring or the illusion of caring for each other. Its one of those things that Maslow discovered when doing research about people's needs.

There is a term; "Corporate Slavery" being kicked around as of late. It refers to how corporations sort of own people like slaves in that the corp. has all the power and the slave is sort of beholden to do the corps bidding for their "meals" so to speak.

I reject this term on many levels. Fact is people enslave themselves by believing in a lie to begin with. However, this happens on all levels. It's not just the low man in the corp, it goes all the way to the one person who benefits the most as well. The culprit is not so much the corporation, but covetousness.

People want "things" and they imagine their lives in false ways, yet see work and progress as the means to their own end. So they become willing to sell themselves into their own enslavement for a few dollars more. Once we are exposed to this sin, it fuels our very nature to sin in this way and we usually end up disappointed. Unless we are the sociopaths. Usually works out well for them. Just as they planed.

The only disagreement I have with this is that some of the aspects of willful enslavement aren't necessarily true, but more out of necessity.

A good example would be college. Yes the individual chooses their own degree and the investment needs to be thought out, but we have to consider that in order to live above poverty level by US standards, a college degree is growing to be almost a must. There are areas where its not needed, but its growing smaller every year. So we have to consider that student loans become a reality and a person has to sell themselves in order to pay these back. They do become "enslaved" to it because due to colleges increasing the debt every year, its almost impossible for the majority of people to afford this almost necessity.

My company has a nasty habit of taking my accounts and giving them to someone in "corporate". This happened to me last week. I get paid salary plus commission. Many of us do, and I am constantly building accounts to make my bonus, and earn my keep. Recently my largest account was taken from me under the excuse that it would be better managed from the home office, even though it was running well. I even knew they where going behind my back and re-bidding it, so it comes as no surprise to me. My reward for not complaining was a raise to my salary, and an adjustment down to my goal. The guy who got the account now gets something to make up for his lake of performance until he looses it; which he will, in due time. But friends help friends right? Especially when your friend is a VP and got you your position yet you can't sell enough to make your own job worth keeping, but he does not want to look bad for hiring you, so someone like me must take the hit. After all I am the Christian guy who will not complain.

True, I lean on my Lord to help me at work. He always has and always will. I've seen people come and go, yet I remain.

I look at all this from a semi libertarian aspect and understand that business is what it is and the risks that come with high power. That is why I also understand its a game. When I was younger I believed the hype I was told about a society that works together, blah blah blah, and learned that its all about your own worth and what you offer. I cut a bunch of ties and am repaying uneeded debts. Its something most people just don't want to accept. I'm not longer trying to keep up with the Joneses down the street. Instead I'm seeking for what fulfills me and my needs, and enjoying the ride as much as possible. peace be with you brother.

 

[Danus]

There is a fascinating documentary called "The Corporation", if anyone has not seen it, it's worth a look.
http://www.thecorporation.com/
You can probably watch it on line for free.

The film makers show how a corporation sort of functions with psychopathic tendencies. If you think about it, a corporation is a legal entity. It is legally like a person. It can be sued, must pay taxes and such, but yet it's not a real person, only made up of real people with otherwise good intentions.

So what the film marker does in this movie is takes a look at the corporation as a person and psychoanalysis it. The results show, in a loose way, how as an individual the corporation functions as a psychopath, or with psychopathic tendencies.

This is an important film for people, especially you folks paying off collage loans, or just entering the work force.

From a Christian perspective, this world is fallen. Meaning we do not exist in a purely righteous world, and we ourselves are by nature part of that unrighteousness. I believe God has allowed me, and other believers to see the world and ourselves for what we truly are. I also believe that many nonbelievers have this similar perspective. I'd rather say anyone with a heart can see the truth rather they think they believe in God or not. We are all made in His image, and if God is pure Love, then we are so in part as well.

So, watch this movie if you will. As you do, I would invite you (anyone) to consider these verses from the bible. Romans 12:2 (NIV) <sup class="versenum">2 </sup>Do not conform to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God’s will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

And this one. 1 John 2:15-17 (NIV)<sup class="versenum">15 </sup>Do not love the world or anything in the world. If anyone loves the world, love for the Father is not in them. <sup class="versenum">16 </sup>For everything in the world—the lust of the flesh, the lust of the eyes, and the pride of life—comes not from the Father but from the world. <sup class="versenum">17 </sup>The world and its desires pass away, but whoever does the will of God lives forever.

I read something the other day about a Supreme Court rulling denying a "corporation" a particular gene patent. Think about that! Someone wants to OWN...a human gene so they can profit from anything related to that gene, only in this case it's a corporation; a legal person made up of many other people. The ruling was that since they did not "make" the gene, they can not own the rights to it. Well that seems obvious, but how far off are we if we have people willing to believe they can own what God has made ? (or nature depending on your view) How psychotic is that? Romans 3:23-24 (NIV) <sup class="versenum">23 </sup>for all have sinned and fall short of the glory of God, <sup class="versenum">24 </sup>and all are justified freely by his grace through the redemption that came by Christ Jesus.

 

[Mountain Man]

Why do people blame and condemn something that was created to satisfy our desire for goods and services,does anyone realy think that any other institution created by man is any better.....corporate government ? corporate socialism ? ....and last but certainly not least corporate religion of which "Christianity" is a part. The computers,networks,servers etc etc that people use to complain about corporations are all part of the services corporations provide that we eagerly consume....like it or not they are our creation and everyone who lives the modern lifestyle supports them.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

As much as I detest the evils of corporate business I know without corporations we'd all be making a living running a booth down at the local flea market.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Why do people blame and condemn something that was created to satisfy our desire for goods and services,does anyone realy think that any other institution created by man is any better.....corporate government ? corporate socialism ? ....and last but certainly not least corporate religion of which "Christianity" is a part. The computers,networks,servers etc etc that people use to complain about corporations are all part of the services corporations provide that we eagerly consume....like it or not they are our creation and everyone who lives the modern lifestyle supports them.

Something so fundamentally good has become so terribly corrputed.

With little incentive to correct the wrongs that exist in corporate business, I don't expect any changes for the good anytime soon.

When man is capable of putting his greed aside for the good of everybody, that is when we'll see change.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Most churches are corporations.

...but set up as non-profit, correct?

Which is what they should do with the medical services industry.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

The problem with corporations is not that people want to pay their mortgages, drive a car they don't have to work on, and start a retirement account. The problem is people want excessive profits above and beyond that.

 

[Danus]

Something so fundamentally good has become so terribly corrputed.

That's an interesting thought, but it leads me to ask, is it something "fundamentally" good?

We can defend it, and we do, but often mankind has found a way to defend all sort of sin? If we say we believe and trust in God, and that He provides our needs and such, why would we place trust in our own devices?

Obviously, not everyone defending, or arguing against the corporate structure are believers of God, but surely people who are should be able to lead these endeavors in a Godly way, yet I find many of us who claim to be in Christ, willing to place our trust in ourselves in this way. But, again I lean back to what the bible says of us all, regardless.

Certainly there is good in the corporate structure. It has prospered mankind in many ways, but it has also worked to our destruction and sin. The definition of Fundamental, as an adjective is: Forming a necessary base or core; of central importance. ...... that opens us up for a lot of questions about what we mean by fundamentally good if we are not good to begin with.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Something so fundamentally good has become so terribly corrputed.

That's an interesting thought, but it leads me to ask, is it something "fundamentally" good?

We can defend it, and we do, but often mankind has found a way to defend all sort of sin? If we say we believe and trust in God, and that He provides our needs and such, why would we place trust in our own devices?

Obviously, not everyone defending, or arguing against the corporate structure are believers of God, but surely people who are should be able to lead these endeavors in a Godly way, yet I find many of us who claim to be in Christ, willing to place our trust in ourselves in this way. But, again I lean back to what the bible says of us all, regardless.

Certainly there is good in the corporate structure. It has prospered mankind in many ways, but it has also worked to our destruction and sin. The definition of Fundamental, as an adjective is: Forming a necessary base or core; of central importance. ...... that opens us up for a lot of questions about what we mean by fundamentally good if we are not good to begin with.

It's fundamentally good when people want to pool their resources in the hope of making a living. As much as I detest what corporate business has done to life in the world today it has made it possible for common folk to live a higher standard of living. I suggest it has actually lessened the divide between the have's and the have nots. But that is coming to an end. Sadly, corporate business and two income families are effectively recreating that divide, not lessening it as they did at first.

Corporate business is a very interesting topic to me. After many years in my small part of the corporate world I'm convinced it is the desire for excessive profits, that even Christians champion as something 'good', that is ruining life in the world today...and causing things like Obamacare to come to our rescue.

 

[Mountain Man]

There is a book written by Otto L.Bettmann titled "The Good Old Days,they were terrible"...it describes and does away with many myths about life in America from the end of the Civil war until the early 1900s when everything in life was a struggle from the time one opened their eyes in the morning until they closed them at night....miserable conditions,unbelievable filth and squalor and short lives full of back breaking work, misery and suffering and corruption on a scale that equals or exceeds that we have today....nothing has changed except people live in decent homes and can if they wish live a comfortable life instead of living like an Animal....i'm glad I live in this time.

 

[jasoncran]

There is a book written by Otto L.Bettmann titled "The Good Old Days,they were terrible"...it describes and does away with many myths about life in America from the end of the Civil war until the early 1900s when everything in life was a struggle from the time one opened their eyes in the morning until they closed them at night....miserable conditions,unbelievable filth and squalor and short lives full of back breaking work, misery and suffering and corruption on a scale that equals or exceeds that we have today....nothing has changed except people live in decent homes and can if they wish live a comfortable life instead of living like an Animal....i'm glad I live in this time.

the old stories what founded my hometown are often of that nature. corruption and racism. many of the orange grove owners didn't get their money from that, but selling drugs.