Bible Study THE DEAD, WHERE ARE THEY? (SHEOL/HADES, GEHENNA, TARTARUS)

[Johann!@#]

Forgot to mention-from Utley.

J.

No answer-

 

[Mr. G Lee]

I know where the comics are in this thread, but thanks for "sharing," Lol.

Super parable guy.....Thanks.. ouch. . .LOL

A question. What's your take on parables which without Christ the Holy Spirit spoke not. . . purposely hiding the gospel understanding from natural unconverted mankind.

Remember because natural man has no faith(power of God) ) not little, none, coming from God who works in born again mankind. They must create thier own signs as idol images like that of Rachel she hid the family idols from her father to wonder or marvel after . The statue (image idol) of Peter's granite foot are worn out.

Jesus called them a evil generation again natural unconverted mankind.

To emphasize In John 3 when revealing the greatest miracle of all "born again" to the sign and wonder seeker Nicodenmus. The lord lovingly commanded him to marvel or wonder not . Satan is the lying wonder marvel after god called Legion . Christian have scripture. . parables

What is the purpose of the parables? . What do they profit in doing? Why do some avoid studying them?

An example I use in in Luke 9 and Mark 9 the two witnesses . The Holy Spirit giving words to his prophet Jesus to prophecy. in a series of parables hiding the spiritual understanding from the apostles over and over
prophesying not giving them the understanding in the end verse 55 he rebuked the apostles and revealed to them they knew not how to rightly divide the parables . they looked to the things seen not the unseen things of the faith of God

On one occasion the apostles got togethter to elect a new Who is the greatest" leader. They
must of thoughts just like Jesus family that Jesus went of the deep end as some sort of comic character.
Most misunderstood person that ever walked . it why the shotest veres he wept because of thier lack of understanding ..

Parables clearly teach us how to walk by faith, the unseen eternal things of God

Luke 9:42 And as he was yet a coming, the devil threw him down, and tare him. And Jesus rebuked the unclean spirit, and healed the child, and delivered him again to his father.

Amazed wonder . . .no belief understanding of faith natural uncoverted mankind
Power of God's. . faithfulness exlusively
These saying. . .parable
personal comment.

Luke 9:43-55 And they were all amazed at the mighty power of God. But while they wondered every one at all things which Jesus did, he said unto his disciples, Let these sayings sink down into your ears: for the Son of man shall be delivered into the hands of men. But they understood not this saying, and it was hid from them, that they perceived it not: and they feared to ask him of that saying. Then there arose a reasoning among them, which of them should be greatest. And Jesus, perceiving the thought of their heart, took a child, and set him by him, And said unto them, Whosoever shall receive this child in my name receiveth me: and whosoever shall receive me receiveth him that sent me: for he that is least among you all, the same shall be great. (still no faith that could please God not seen ) And John answered and said, Master, we saw one casting out devils in thy name; and we forbad him, because he followeth not with us. And Jesus said unto him, Forbid him not: for he that is not against us is for us. (Jesus defined the us as those not seen the things of God that work in them.. again no faith that could please ) And it came to pass, when the time was come that he should be received up, he stedfastly set his face to go to Jerusalem, And sent messengers (apostles) before his face: and they went, and entered into a village of the Samaritans, to make ready for him. And they (the messenger) did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.
they demanded God destroy the gentiles . .(the foundation of paganism out of sight out of mind.)
And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did? But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not (No faith) what manner of spirit ye are of.

Not the usual sunday school teaching but it seem to work out in the end .

Faith power of God needed to both work to reveal the truth of his will and empower to do it .

The daily bread of his will or called hidden manna.the food the apostles knew not of . . . . hearing and doing. . They learned the rest of thier lives just as today. he promised not to give us on us but continual to teach and bring to memory the previous he has taught .

 

[Johann!@#]

Amazed wonder . . .no belief understanding of faith natural uncoverted mankind
Power of God's. . faithfulness exlusively
These saying. . .parable

1. Taken from How to Read the Bible For All Its Worth by Gordon Fee and Doug Stuart,

"The parables have suffered a fate of misinterpretation in the church second only to the Revelation" (p. 135).

2. Taken from Understanding and Applying the Bible by J. Robertson McQuilkin,

"Parables have been the source of untold blessing in enlightening God's people concerning spiritual truth. At the same time, parables have been the source of untold confusion in both doctrine and practice in the church" (p. 164).

3. Taken from The Hermeneutical Spiral by Grant Osborne,

"Parables have been among the most written about yet hermeneutically abused portions of Scripture. . .the most dynamic yet the most difficult to comprehend of the biblical genres. The potential of the parable for communication is enormous, since it creates a comparison or story based upon everyday experiences. However, that story itself is capable of many meanings, and the modern reader has as much difficulty interpreting it as did the ancient hearers" (p. 235).

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Scripture reference?

I prefer biblical terminologies and not to pontificate on sophistry.

Jos 10:11 And it came to pass, as they fled from before Yisroel, and were in the going down to Beit-Choron, that Hashem cast down avanim gedolot from Shomayim upon them unto Azekah, and they died; they were more which died with avnei habarad (hailstones) than they whom the Bnei Yisroel slaughtered with the cherev.
Jos 10:12 Then spoke Yehoshua to Hashem in the day when Hashem delivered up HaEmori before the Bnei Yisroel, and he said in the sight of Yisroel, Shemesh, stand thou still upon Giv'on; and thou, Yarei'ach, in the Emek Ayalon.
Jos 10:13 And the shemesh stood still, the yarei'ach stopped, until the Goy had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the Sefer HaYasher? So the shemesh stood still in the middle of Shomayim, and hastened not to go down about a yom tamim (whole day).
Jos 10:14 And there was no day like that before it or after it, that Hashem paid heed unto the voice of an ish; for Hashem fought for Yisroel.

12 אָ֣ז Thenיְדַבֵּ֤ר spokeיְהוֹשֻׁעַ֙ Joshuaלַֽיהוָ֔ה to YHWHבְּי֗וֹם in the dayתֵּ֤ת when delivered upיְהוָה֙ YHWHאֶת־ -הָ֣אֱמֹרִ֔י the Amoritesלִפְנֵ֖י beforeבְּנֵ֣י the sonsיִשְׂרָאֵ֑ל of Israel,וַיֹּ֣אמֶר׀ and he saidלְעֵינֵ֣י in the sightיִשְׂרָאֵ֗ל of Israel,שֶׁ֚מֶשׁ Sun,בְּגִבְע֣וֹן over Gibeon;דּ֔וֹם stand stillוְיָרֵ֖חַ and Moon,בְּעֵ֥מֶק in the Valleyאַיָּלֽוֹן׃ of Aijalon.2 13 וַיִּדֹּ֨ם and stood still,הַשֶּׁ֜מֶשׁ the sunוְיָרֵ֣חַ and the moonעָמָ֗ד stopped,עַד־ Tillיִקֹּ֥ם had revengeגּוֹי֙ the peopleאֹֽיְבָ֔יו Upon their enemies.3 הֲלֹא־ [Is] notהִ֥יא itכְתוּבָ֖ה writtenעַל־ inסֵ֣פֶר the Scrollהַיָּשָׁ֑ר of the Upright one?4 וַיַּעֲמֹ֤ד so stood stillהַשֶּׁ֙מֶשׁ֙ the sunבַּחֲצִ֣י in the midstהַשָּׁמַ֔יִם of the heavens,וְלֹא־ and notאָ֥ץ did hastenלָב֖וֹא to go [down]כְּי֥וֹם for about a day5 תָּמִֽים׃ whole. 14 וְלֹ֨א and noהָיָ֜ה there has beenכַּיּ֤וֹם like dayהַהוּא֙ thatלְפָנָ֣יו before itוְאַחֲרָ֔יו or after itלִשְׁמֹ֥עַ that heededיְהוָ֖ה YHWHבְּק֣וֹל the voiceאִ֑ישׁ of a man;כִּ֣י forיְהוָ֔ה YHWHנִלְחָ֖ם foughtלְיִשְׂרָאֵֽל׃פ for Israel. 15 וַיָּ֤שָׁב and returned,יְהוֹשֻׁ֙עַ֙ Joshuaוְכָל־ and allיִשְׂרָאֵ֣ל Israelעִמּ֔וֹ with himאֶל־ toהַֽמַּחֲנֶ֖ה the campהַגִּלְגָּֽלָה׃ at Gilgal

וַיִּדֹּ֨ם הַשֶּׁ֜מֶשׁ וְיָרֵ֣חַ עָמָ֗ד עַד־יִקֹּ֥ם גּוֹי֙ אֹֽיְבָ֔יו הֲלֹא־הִ֥יא כְתוּבָ֖ה עַל־סֵ֣פֶר הַיָּשָׁ֑ר וַיַּעֲמֹ֤ד הַשֶּׁ֙מֶשׁ֙ בַּחֲצִ֣י הַשָּׁמַ֔יִם וְלֹא־אָ֥ץ לָב֖וֹא כְּי֥וֹם תָּמִֽים׃

And the sun stood still
And the moon halted,
While a nation wreaked judgment on its foes
—as is written in the Book of Jashar. *Book of Jashar Presumably a collection of war songs. Thus the sun halted in midheaven, and did not press on to set, for a whole day;

J.

Jasper is a oral tradition of the fathers a hierarchy of dying sinners.

Loking for a deeper understanding does not change the simplicity of the gospel by which Christ saves men He not served by human hands as a will

Remember of the three things that make up the very essence of God is Love..God is Spirit. God is light and not that he can only form it temporally day four (no sun or moon in the new order). he knew beforehand that the pagan world worship the Sun gods .

What I call Gods self introduction sets the stage curtain lights camera action it revealed the darkness

Genesis 1:1-4 In the beginning God created the heaven and the earth. And the earth was without form, and void; and darkness was upon the face of the deep. And the Spirit of God moved upon the face of the waters.And God said, Let there be light: and there was light.And God saw the light, that it was good: and God divided the light from the darkness.

1 John 1:5 This then is the message which we have heard of him, and declare unto you, that God is light, and in him is no darkness at all.

Isaiah 14:12-15"How you are fallen from heaven,O Lucifer, son of the morning!How you are cut down to the ground,You who weakened the nations!For you have said in your heart:'I will ascend into heaven,I will exalt my throne above the stars of God;I will also sit on the mount of the congregation On the farthest sides of the north;I will ascend above the heights of the clouds,I will be like the Most High.'Yet you shall be brought down to Sheol,To the lowest depths of the Pit.


Ezekiel 28:12-18"Son of man, take up a lamentation for the king of Tyre, and say to him, 'Thus says the Lord GOD:"You were the seal of perfection,Full of wisdom and perfect in beauty.You were in Eden, the garden of God;Every precious stone was your covering:The sardius, topaz, and diamond,Beryl, onyx, and jasper,Sapphire, turquoise, and emerald with gold.The workmanship of your timbrels and pipes Was prepared for you on the day you were created.

Till iniquity was found in you.DAY THREE Lucifer was to guard the glory of God represented by beautiful stones that are on used the priest breastplate He usurped as if he was the faithful and True Creator The Spirit of Christ departed returning in Revelation 21 and 22

Revelation 21:22-25 And I saw no temple therein: for the Lord God Almighty and the Lamb are the temple of it. And the city had no need of the sun, neither of the moon, to shine in it: for the glory of God did lighten it, and the Lamb is the light thereof. And the nations of them which are saved shall walk in the light of it: and the kings of the earth do bring their glory and honour into it. And the gates of it shall not be shut at all by day: for there shall be no night there.

 

[Mr. G Lee]

1. Taken from How to Read the Bible For All Its Worth by Gordon Fee and Doug Stuart,

Many good commentaries Arthur Pink one of my favorites or John Macarthur, chuck Swindoll era

What would they have to do in respect the apostles that God rebuke for not understanding the parables .

Do you think they should of looked for a new leader seeing they thought Jesus was confused? Read slow and prayerfully . We have the rest of our lives to learn Its a open book test it has all the answers of the unseen things of God

Should God of listened to the apostles and destroyed all the gentiles?

Luke9:53-55 And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.
And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

 

[Johann!@#]

Luke9:53-55 And they did not receive him, because his face was as though he would go to Jerusalem.
And when his disciples James and John saw this, they said, Lord, wilt thou that we command fire to come down from heaven, and consume them, even as Elias did?But he turned, and rebuked them, and said, Ye know not what manner of spirit ye are of.

9:52 This is the only time the Gospels mention Jesus sending people ahead of Him to prepare for His visit. Who they were and why they were rejected is uncertain.

It is surprising that Luke is the only Synoptic Gospel to record this negative account when his other accounts related to Samaritans are so positive (cf. Luke 10:25-27; 17:11-19; Acts 1:8; 8:1-13,14,25; 9:31; 15:3). Luke mentions this outcast group often to show Jesus' love and concern for all people (i.e., his Gentile audience), but not here!

9:53 "they did not receive Him, because He was traveling toward Jerusalem" This relates to Jewish/Samaritan prejudices. These two groups hated each other. It is also possible that they knew He was traveling to a feast at the Temple and they rejected Jerusalem as the site of the true Temple, which they thought was on Mt. Gerizim, near Shechem. Josephus mentions Jewish travelers to Jerusalem feasts being harassed (cf. Antiq. 20.6.1).

This verse sets the stage for the request of James and John in Luke 9:54, which Jesus rebukes in Luke 9:55

9:55-56 The KJV inserts a phrase ("and said, 'You do not know what manner of spirit you are of. For the Son of Man did not come to destroy men's lives, but to save them'"), which is found only in the uncial manuscript K and later versions. It is missing in MSS P45,75, א, A, B, C, L, and W. The UBS4 committee gave the shorter reading an "A" rating (certain).

Do you think they should of looked for a new leader seeing they thought Jesus was confused?

What gives you the impression that "they" thought Jesus was confused?

Read slow and prayerfully . We have the rest of our lives to learn Its a open book test it has all the answers of the unseen things of God

Agree.

 

[Johann!@#]

Many good commentaries Arthur Pink one of my favorites or John Macarthur, chuck Swindoll era

While I am not dismissing these commentaries-I have found better.
J.

 

[JLB]

THE DEAD, WHERE ARE THEY?

The dead are in hell.

But he does not know that the dead are there,
That her guests are in the depths of hell.
Proverbs 9:18


God is not the God of the dead but the living.


Jesus answered and said to them, “You are mistaken, not knowing the Scriptures nor the power of God. For in the resurrection they neither marry nor are given in marriage, but are like angels of God in heaven. But concerning the resurrection of the dead, have you not read what was spoken to you by God, saying, I am the God of Abraham, the God of Isaac, and the God of Jacob’? God is not the God of the dead, but of the living.” Matthew 22:29-32


The dead in Christ are in heaven with the Lord.


For in this we groan, earnestly desiring to be clothed with our habitation which is from heaven, if indeed, having been clothed, we shall not be found naked. For we who are in this tent groan, being burdened, not because we want to be unclothed, but further clothed, that mortality may be swallowed up by life. Now He who has prepared us for this very thing is God, who also has given us the Spirit as a guarantee. So we are always confident, knowing that while we are at home in the body we are absent from the Lord. For we walk by faith, not by sight. We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord. 2 Corinthians 5:2-8

• We are confident, yes, well pleased rather to be absent from the body and to be present with the Lord.

JLB

 

[atpollard]

I think many of the dead are still walking the Earth in their bodies ...

• Matthew 8:22 [NASB] But Jesus said to him, "Follow Me, and let the dead bury their own dead."

• Ephesians 2:1-3 [NASB] And you were dead in your offenses and sins, in which you previously walked according to the course of this world, according to the prince of the power of the air, of the spirit that is now working in the sons of disobedience. Among them we too all previously lived in the lusts of our flesh, indulging the desires of the flesh and of the mind, and were by nature children of wrath, just as the rest.

... once upon a time, I was.

 

[for_his_glory]

A soul is the means of communing between two spirits as in . . can two walk together in agreement with the living abiding word of God ?

God breathed in the communication ability. And man created man became a living soul.

Genesis 2:7 And the Lord God formed man of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul.

When God's soul departed on day three because of pride in the heart of Lucifer the soul of mankind died. because of it as soon as mankind is born we go forth telling lies he teaches us the gospel truth as Jesus said marvel not a person must be born from above inspired by God Not earthly inspired by the devil the god of this world.

Spiritism, in which you are trying to teach, is nothing more then the false doctrines/teachings of Allan Kardec that comes against the word of God as he sought out mediums/spirits when he wrote the five books he taught from. God warned us not to have anything to do with them, Leviticus 19:31, Rev 22:14-15.

 

[Mr. G Lee]

Spiritism, in which you are trying to teach, is nothing more then the false doctrines/teachings of Allan Kardec that comes against the word of God as he sought out mediums/spirits when he wrote the five books he taught from. God warned us not to have anything to do with them, Leviticus 19:31, Rev 22:14-15.

Allan Kardec followed the teaching of Pharisee seeking after dead relatives or men of renown Like that of Rachel who hid the familiar spirit god from her father Or Saul cut of of all communication and summed up the legion . same thing some today call patron saints. that kind of spiritism


If you mean the work of the Spirit of Christ as spiritism yes . He informs us whosoever has not the Spirit of Christ the born again Spirit of God they do not belong to him .

They are the literalist comparing the things seen to the same temporal things seen .They stay away from the signified tongue of God used in parables.

 

[Mr. G Lee]

While I am not dismissing these commentaries-I have found better.
J.

Thanks
Better than what? Because of what?

R

Do you believe in the cessation of the nephesh-or conscious, eternal torment?

I beleive the dead know nothing therefore feel nothing. there yeporal spirt givrn un the lrter of the law death (thous shall not or in dying last breath) you will come to end the temporal body return to dust and the spirit of the law returns to God the one with faithfull power .

Jesus the Son of man suffered the pangs of hell unto death by his wounds we are healed . . no dead sacrifices.

Ecclesiastes 12:7 Then shall the dust return to the earth as it was: and the spirit shall return unto God who gave it.

Ecclesiastes 9:5 For the living know that they shall die: but the dead know not any thing, neither have they any more a reward; for the memory of them is forgotten Also their love, and their hatred, and their envy, is now perished; neither have they any more a portion for ever in any thing that is done under the sun. Go thy way, eat thy bread with joy, and drink thy wine with a merry heart; for God now accepteth thy works.