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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join Hidden in Him and For His Glory for discussions on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/become-a-vessel-of-honor-part-2.112306/
The Death Penalty
- Thread starter Lewis
- Start date
W
Webers_Home
Guest
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†. Rom 3:19 . . Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
And just as those laws apply to everyone everywhere for all time; so the consequence for breaking those laws applies to everyone everywhere for all time.
†. Deut 27:26 . . Cursed is the man who does not uphold the words of this law by carrying them out.
Now that you've forced the issue; let me continue my spiel by pointing out that the consequence for breaking the laws of God as per the Old Testament, is a very handy tool for encouraging people to look to Christ as a means of evading said curse.
†. Gal 3:24 . . The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
The koiné Greek word for "schoolmaster" indicates not only a teacher; but a also a chaperone put in charge of children for the express purpose of escorting them to school: taking them by the hand if necessary to make sure they get there. You-- by saying the laws of God as per the Old Testament don't apply to anyone but the people of Israel --have thwarted His law's usefulness as a schoolmaster; and so the statement below has no application in your case.
†. Gal 3:13 . . Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.
The pronoun "us" in that statement is of course limited to people cursed by the law for their failure to obey it. Since you've pulled yourself away from the schoolmaster, then of course Christ is of no use to you for redemption.
Buen Camino
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The laws of God as per the Old Testament apply to everyone everywhere for all time; not just to the people of Israel for a limited time.
†. Rom 3:19 . . Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
And just as those laws apply to everyone everywhere for all time; so the consequence for breaking those laws applies to everyone everywhere for all time.
†. Deut 27:26 . . Cursed is the man who does not uphold the words of this law by carrying them out.
Now that you've forced the issue; let me continue my spiel by pointing out that the consequence for breaking the laws of God as per the Old Testament, is a very handy tool for encouraging people to look to Christ as a means of evading said curse.
†. Gal 3:24 . . The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
The koiné Greek word for "schoolmaster" indicates not only a teacher; but a also a chaperone put in charge of children for the express purpose of escorting them to school: taking them by the hand if necessary to make sure they get there. You-- by saying the laws of God as per the Old Testament don't apply to anyone but the people of Israel --have thwarted His law's usefulness as a schoolmaster; and so the statement below has no application in your case.
†. Gal 3:13 . . Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.
The pronoun "us" in that statement is of course limited to people cursed by the law for their failure to obey it. Since you've pulled yourself away from the schoolmaster, then of course Christ is of no use to you for redemption.
Buen Camino
/
- May 22, 2012
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So we are to worship at the temple, sacrifice animals, follow the ceremonial laws, the sanitation laws, etc? Do you believe those are to be followed?
The above being the best and most obvious examples, there are tons of laws that cannot be followed anymore. And not only that, but as I said many are just plain outdated, the sanitation laws being the best example. Some laws simply are not needed anymore, as the circumstance that made them necessary no longer exist in this time.
Many of the laws have universal morals behind them that are still being followed, in the form of modern equivalents. Such as, the one about puting a barrier around your roof. That was because the housetops were often used, and they didn't want anyone to fall off. However, most people in most parts of the world don't walk around on their roof today--but they do have balconies on the side of their house, and they do have barriers on those for their own safety.
Same principle in mind--safety of others--just carried out in a way that responds specifically to the current circumstances. A barrier on the roof of a modern house, but not on a balcony, would not be serving it's purpose and thus the moral behind the law would not be being followed.
And that only makes sense--national laws have to change over time in order to accommodate the specific issues present currently. The same basic morals and ideas behind the laws are there, but circumstances can require more specific laws that, once again, need to be updated over time.
Why does this somehow not apply to the OT laws made for the nation of Israel? I don't see how it could be otherwise. I just don't. Again: the universal morals and ideals are still there. They have not changed. However, laws made for specific circumstances are some point in history are not going to reflect the circumstances in place today. They just don't, and IMO studying the purpose behind the specific laws makes that pretty obvious.
I look at the books of the law from a historical context, keeping in mind the context and purpose of the law, and using that to judge whether they apply to today or not by gauging whether the same purpose they served back then still applies today or not.
So. Do you believe the laws about worship at the temple, sacrificing animals, following the ceremonial laws, the sanitation laws of thousands of years ago, etc still apply? If not, then you see my point--there are some laws in the OT that just don't apply anymore, and we can use logic, research, and study to gauge which one is which.
Just because someone does not agree with you that we are still under the old covenant gives you no grounds to assert whether or not they are really under salvation; that authority belongs to God alone.
And actually, according to the NT, relying on following the law to bring salvation obligates you to follow the entire law without failing; an impossible task. That is why Jesus' sacrifice was needed. If our salvation is dependent on whether or not we follow the law perfectly, we're going to fail. Every time.
I'm not saying that we're free to do as we please--Jesus did say, "if you love me, you'll keep my commandments". They are there for our own good, after all. I believe the universal morals behind the laws never went anywhere, and that these universal morals are what the NT tells us we are to follow. Jesus said the main ideas behind all of the laws were these two morals: love God, and love others. Everything else flows logically from there.
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W
Webers_Home
Guest
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†. Rom 3:19 . . Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
It that's whom you identify as "we" then my answer is YES; and the world's failure to worship at the temple, sacrifice animals, follow the ceremonial laws, the sanitation laws, etc is curse-worthy.
†. Deut 27:26 . . Cursed is the man who does not uphold the words of this law by carrying them out.
†. Deut 4:2 . .You shall not add anything to what I command you or take anything away from it, but keep the commandments of the Lord your God that I enjoin upon you.
†. Deut 5:29-30 . . Be careful, then, to do as the Lord your God has commanded you. Do not turn aside to the right or to the left: follow only the path that the Lord your God has enjoined upon you
†. Deut 26:16-18 . .The Lord your God commands you this day to follow these decrees and laws; carefully observe them with all your heart and with all your soul.
Alright then. For one thing: I don't have to convince you of the impossibility of complying with God's laws as per the Old Testament. You've already figured that part out on your own. So then, let's return to the statement below.
†. Gal 3:24 . . The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
That statement was penned to a specific group of people identified at Gal 1:2 as "the churches in Galatia". So we're talking about people "in Christ" since that's basically what a New Testament church is; viz: Christ's body; but that's another story.
The schoolmaster's task among the Galatians was two-fold: 1) lead his students to understand that nobody can evade the wrath of God by keeping the commandments-- because God's laws, as per the Old Testament, are simply impossible; especially without a Temple in Jerusalem staffed with a fully-functioning Aaronic priesthood; and 2) take his desperate students by the hand and direct them to a safety net; which God has been gracious enough to provide.
†. Gal 3:13 . . Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.
†. John 3:14-17 . . And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be spared.
Jesus related his crucifixion to an incident in the Old Testament where Yhvh's people grumbled about the quality of God's providence and insolently demanded a better diet. (Num 21:5-9). So in retribution; God sent a swarm of deadly snakes among them and whoever was bitten faced certain death; no exceptions. The snakes were very toxic.
So when the people realized the consequences of their error, they begged Moses to intercede for them, and in response, God had Moses construct a replica of the deadly reptiles and hoist it up on a pole where everyone could see it. Whoever looked to the replica was cured; in point of fact, that replica was their only God-given means of curing snake bite. Nothing else would work: not charity, not sacrifices, not scapulars, not Bible study, not Sunday school, not commandments, not church, not synagogue, not Sabbaths, not holy days of obligation, not yeshiva, not catechism, not holy water, not penance, not sacraments, not even their choice of religion-- in point of fact: nothing that most people typically associate with salvation would work; not even prayer: only that replica.
Now fast-forward to the New Testament. The schoolmaster led his Galatian students to understand that their default afterlife destiny is the wrath of God; and the only way to avoid it is to rely upon Christ's crucifixion. Failure to look to his crucifixion as an adequate payment to ransom their derrière from the wrath of God is an eo ipso guarantee of a horrific death penalty in the reservoir of liquefied flame depicted at Rev 20:11-15: no exceptions. In point of fact, unbelievers are dead men walking even as we speak; viz: toast on the hoof.
†. John 3:18 . . He who believes in him is not condemned; but he who disbelieves is condemned already.
Why are disbelievers toast on the hoof? Because non compliance with the laws of God as per the Old Testament is curse-worthy.
†. Deut 27:26 . . Cursed is the man who does not uphold the words of this law by carrying them out.
Grammatically "cursed is" speaks of the present; viz: right now-- no delay, and no waiting period.
Buen Camino
/
Since you didn't specify to whom you refer by the pronoun "we" I'm going to take the liberty of assuming you mean the whole world as per the statement below.
†. Rom 3:19 . . Now we know that whatever the law says, it says to those who are under the law, that every mouth may be stopped, and all the world may become guilty before God.
It that's whom you identify as "we" then my answer is YES; and the world's failure to worship at the temple, sacrifice animals, follow the ceremonial laws, the sanitation laws, etc is curse-worthy.
†. Deut 27:26 . . Cursed is the man who does not uphold the words of this law by carrying them out.
That's right.
Sorry; but God accepts no excuses for non compliance.
It's illegal to revise, embellish, amend, repeal, and/or otherwise edit the laws of God as per the Old Testament.
†. Deut 4:2 . .You shall not add anything to what I command you or take anything away from it, but keep the commandments of the Lord your God that I enjoin upon you.
†. Deut 5:29-30 . . Be careful, then, to do as the Lord your God has commanded you. Do not turn aside to the right or to the left: follow only the path that the Lord your God has enjoined upon you
†. Deut 26:16-18 . .The Lord your God commands you this day to follow these decrees and laws; carefully observe them with all your heart and with all your soul.
There you go with the pronoun "we" again. To whom are your referring? I have a suggestion. Instead of using the pronoun "we" why don't you start using pronouns like "me" and/or "I". In other words: why not start speaking for yourself from now on instead of always taking it upon yourself to speak for others?
Alright then. For one thing: I don't have to convince you of the impossibility of complying with God's laws as per the Old Testament. You've already figured that part out on your own. So then, let's return to the statement below.
†. Gal 3:24 . . The law was our schoolmaster to bring us unto Christ, that we might be justified by faith.
That statement was penned to a specific group of people identified at Gal 1:2 as "the churches in Galatia". So we're talking about people "in Christ" since that's basically what a New Testament church is; viz: Christ's body; but that's another story.
The schoolmaster's task among the Galatians was two-fold: 1) lead his students to understand that nobody can evade the wrath of God by keeping the commandments-- because God's laws, as per the Old Testament, are simply impossible; especially without a Temple in Jerusalem staffed with a fully-functioning Aaronic priesthood; and 2) take his desperate students by the hand and direct them to a safety net; which God has been gracious enough to provide.
†. Gal 3:13 . . Christ redeemed us from the curse of the law by becoming a curse for us, for it is written: Cursed is everyone who is hung on a tree.
†. John 3:14-17 . . And as Moses lifted up the serpent in the wilderness, even so must the Son of Man be lifted up, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life. For God so loved the world that He gave His only begotten Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have everlasting life. For God did not send His son into the world to condemn the world, but that the world through Him might be spared.
Jesus related his crucifixion to an incident in the Old Testament where Yhvh's people grumbled about the quality of God's providence and insolently demanded a better diet. (Num 21:5-9). So in retribution; God sent a swarm of deadly snakes among them and whoever was bitten faced certain death; no exceptions. The snakes were very toxic.
So when the people realized the consequences of their error, they begged Moses to intercede for them, and in response, God had Moses construct a replica of the deadly reptiles and hoist it up on a pole where everyone could see it. Whoever looked to the replica was cured; in point of fact, that replica was their only God-given means of curing snake bite. Nothing else would work: not charity, not sacrifices, not scapulars, not Bible study, not Sunday school, not commandments, not church, not synagogue, not Sabbaths, not holy days of obligation, not yeshiva, not catechism, not holy water, not penance, not sacraments, not even their choice of religion-- in point of fact: nothing that most people typically associate with salvation would work; not even prayer: only that replica.
Now fast-forward to the New Testament. The schoolmaster led his Galatian students to understand that their default afterlife destiny is the wrath of God; and the only way to avoid it is to rely upon Christ's crucifixion. Failure to look to his crucifixion as an adequate payment to ransom their derrière from the wrath of God is an eo ipso guarantee of a horrific death penalty in the reservoir of liquefied flame depicted at Rev 20:11-15: no exceptions. In point of fact, unbelievers are dead men walking even as we speak; viz: toast on the hoof.
†. John 3:18 . . He who believes in him is not condemned; but he who disbelieves is condemned already.
Why are disbelievers toast on the hoof? Because non compliance with the laws of God as per the Old Testament is curse-worthy.
†. Deut 27:26 . . Cursed is the man who does not uphold the words of this law by carrying them out.
Grammatically "cursed is" speaks of the present; viz: right now-- no delay, and no waiting period.
Buen Camino
/
handy
Member
- Jun 21, 2007
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Just a note of caution: Please be sure to frame any arguments in as impersonal way as possible. If one writes "you" instead of "one", it can change a comment from an impersonal comment about people in general to a personal insult which would violate our terms of service. Address issues, don't attack members.
handy
Member
- Jun 21, 2007
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I agree. Even in the book of Galatians, where we find that the law was intended as a schoolmaster, Paul was addressing himself to Jewish Galatians who were trying to force Gentile brethren to be under the law... and Paul was pretty forceful in his language about what a bad idea that was. The Law was never intended for Gentiles, unless they chose to be under it.
The issue of how Gentile Christians were to handle the Mosaic Law has already been dealt with, 2000 years ago when the Council at Jerusalem made it clear:
As for this:
Webers_Home said:
Paul told the Athenians that God overlooks ignorance.
K
King James
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Just came to check in on the topic...uh oh...View attachment 3366
- May 22, 2012
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Interesting response. I'm stopping here. I said all I think I can say, and I stand by it. Thanks for your input. These discussions always give me a chance to clarify things for myself, as well as learn about other POVs.
handy
Member
- Jun 21, 2007
- 10,028
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True enough.... Let's get
totopicjasoncran said:
Ted Bundy was executed by the State of Florida in 1989... were you thinking of Dahmer?
jasoncran
Member
- May 17, 2009
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yes dahmer. I will say this that I knew a victim of rape by a man called david gore whom the state executed. he lone survivor was against his execution. I knew her as a boy. my mother told me that she would call me chassin. as at the age of three my mom would yell my name and to the german women it sounded like chassin. lol. I would run and not listen to my mom.
W
Webers_Home
Guest
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A discussion of capital punishment would be incomplete were it to exclude mention of the death penalty depicted in the latter portion of the book of Revelation.
†. Rev 20:14-15 . . And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
What percentage of the human race is in the queue for execution in the lake? Well; according to the lord and master of New Testament Christianity; it's the majority percentage.
†. Luke 13:22-24 . . And he went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem. Then said one unto him, master, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them: Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
†. Matt 7:13-14 . . Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
†. Matt 22:14 . . For many are called, but few are chosen.
Webster's defines "many" as consisting of, or amounting to, a large but indefinite number; while "few" is defined as consisting of, or amounting to, only a small number; viz: relative to many, few is the lesser; which indicates that more people will be executed in the lake of fire than the number of those spared for heaven.
Buen Camino
/
A discussion of capital punishment would be incomplete were it to exclude mention of the death penalty depicted in the latter portion of the book of Revelation.
†. Rev 20:14-15 . . And death and hell were cast into the lake of fire. This is the second death. And whosoever was not found written in the book of life was cast into the lake of fire.
What percentage of the human race is in the queue for execution in the lake? Well; according to the lord and master of New Testament Christianity; it's the majority percentage.
†. Luke 13:22-24 . . And he went through the cities and villages, teaching, and journeying toward Jerusalem. Then said one unto him, master, are there few that be saved? And he said unto them: Strive to enter in at the strait gate: for many, I say unto you, will seek to enter in, and shall not be able.
†. Matt 7:13-14 . . Enter through the narrow gate. For wide is the gate and broad is the road that leads to destruction, and many enter through it. But small is the gate and narrow the road that leads to life, and only a few find it.
†. Matt 22:14 . . For many are called, but few are chosen.
Webster's defines "many" as consisting of, or amounting to, a large but indefinite number; while "few" is defined as consisting of, or amounting to, only a small number; viz: relative to many, few is the lesser; which indicates that more people will be executed in the lake of fire than the number of those spared for heaven.
Buen Camino
/
jasoncran
Member
- May 17, 2009
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moses commanded men to allow the widows and orphans and poor to graze the corners of the fields. why aren't you doing that. moses also said how children would die if they disobeyed , by stoning. dost thine church stone rebellious boys and girls?one cant pick and choose which part of the torah to follow. its all or nothing. we can only choose it cause of the grace and atonement at the cross.what about those that have skin rashes does the priest in your church examine them and if its leprosy then tell the person he is unclean and must examine him weekly and also accept offerings and what about when they are healed do you fly them to Jordan to be dipped seven times?
W
Webers_Home
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*
The death penalty depicted at Rev 20:11-15 has a rather ghastly aspect to it. Though the fire will terminate a condemned person's body, the fire won't incinerate it to ashes; but instead the condemned person's body will be kept in storage as perpetual nourishment for a rather curious species of fire-proof worm.
†. Mark 9:47-48 . . If your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out. It is better to enter the kingdom of God half blind than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell; where the worm never dies and the fire never goes out.
Jesus wasn't the first to introduce those peculiar worms. Isaiah was way ahead of him-- something like 700+ years ahead.
†. Isa 66:22-24 . . All humanity will come to worship me from week to week and from month to month. And as they go out, they will see the dead bodies of those who have rebelled against me. For the worms that devour them will never die, and the fire that burns them will never go out. All who pass by will view them with utter horror.
Buen Camino
/
The death penalty depicted at Rev 20:11-15 has a rather ghastly aspect to it. Though the fire will terminate a condemned person's body, the fire won't incinerate it to ashes; but instead the condemned person's body will be kept in storage as perpetual nourishment for a rather curious species of fire-proof worm.
†. Mark 9:47-48 . . If your eye causes you to sin, gouge it out. It is better to enter the kingdom of God half blind than to have two eyes and be thrown into hell; where the worm never dies and the fire never goes out.
Jesus wasn't the first to introduce those peculiar worms. Isaiah was way ahead of him-- something like 700+ years ahead.
†. Isa 66:22-24 . . All humanity will come to worship me from week to week and from month to month. And as they go out, they will see the dead bodies of those who have rebelled against me. For the worms that devour them will never die, and the fire that burns them will never go out. All who pass by will view them with utter horror.
Buen Camino
/
W
Webers_Home
Guest
*
†. Isa 53:6 . . All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned, every one, to his own way; and Yhvh has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
†. Rom 6:23 . . For the wages of sin is death.
Point being: I have been liberated from the demands of the Old Testament's commandments via Christ's execution.
†. Rom 7:1-6 . . Do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.
. . .Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another-- to him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
In other words: Christianity is a lethal religion. It actually executes its followers.
†. Rom 6:3 . . Do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
†. Rom 6:6 . . Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him
†. Gal 2:20 . . I am crucified with Christ
†. Col 3:3 . . For you died when Christ died
Buen Camino
/
The crucifixion that Christ underwent was a death penalty; but not your run of the mill capital punishment. Though the Romans were under the impression that Christ died for a crime; God made it an execution for sin.
†. Isa 53:6 . . All we like sheep have gone astray; we have turned, every one, to his own way; and Yhvh has laid on Him the iniquity of us all.
†. Rom 6:23 . . For the wages of sin is death.
Point being: I have been liberated from the demands of the Old Testament's commandments via Christ's execution.
†. Rom 7:1-6 . . Do you not know, brethren (for I speak to those who know the law), that the law has dominion over a man as long as he lives? For the woman who has a husband is bound by the law to her husband as long as he lives. But if the husband dies, she is released from the law of her husband. So then if, while her husband lives, she marries another man, she will be called an adulteress; but if her husband dies, she is free from that law, so that she is no adulteress, though she has married another man.
. . .Therefore, my brethren, you also have become dead to the law through the body of Christ, that you may be married to another-- to him who was raised from the dead, that we should bear fruit to God. For when we were in the flesh, the sinful passions which were aroused by the law were at work in our members to bear fruit to death. But now we have been delivered from the law, having died to what we were held by, so that we should serve in the newness of the Spirit and not in the oldness of the letter.
In other words: Christianity is a lethal religion. It actually executes its followers.
†. Rom 6:3 . . Do you not know that as many of us as were baptized into Christ Jesus were baptized into His death?
†. Rom 6:6 . . Knowing this, that our old man is crucified with him
†. Gal 2:20 . . I am crucified with Christ
†. Col 3:3 . . For you died when Christ died
Buen Camino
/
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jasoncran
Member
- May 17, 2009
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oh wait. you said he paid for the death penalty? really so why not then change your stance on the death penalty as that includes all of it. paul seems to say that they do the things listed in romans one is worthy of death. these be: lying, homosexuality and disobiendience and later he says for such as some of you were and goes on to say they were on the were to heaven. funny how you claim to follow the idea of the the death penalty for what murder and then ignore that god commanded death for what? lying, adultery, fornication, murder, homosexuality, incest, rape.being a witch. funny how you do that.
funny I am former bisexual, are you a liar, fornicator, murderer? you seem to have no problems with that for them that commit murder?
if the crime of murder is still in gods laws then why do you then say nothing about the other sins that do demand the death penalty?
look im for the death penalty, but I also will be honest, I only say for those that are such a threat to society. yes we can agree on that , that would be rape, murder and also genocide but adultery? fornication? lying? disobedience to parents?
homosexuality?witchraft?
funny I am former bisexual, are you a liar, fornicator, murderer? you seem to have no problems with that for them that commit murder?
if the crime of murder is still in gods laws then why do you then say nothing about the other sins that do demand the death penalty?
look im for the death penalty, but I also will be honest, I only say for those that are such a threat to society. yes we can agree on that , that would be rape, murder and also genocide but adultery? fornication? lying? disobedience to parents?
homosexuality?witchraft?
Lewis
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- Aug 5, 2005
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Question: "What does the Bible say about the death penalty / capital punishment?"
http://www.gotquestions.org/death-penalty.html
Answer: The Old Testament law commanded the death penalty for various acts: murder (Exodus 21:12), kidnapping (Exodus 21:16), bestiality (Exodus 22:19), adultery (Leviticus 20:10), homosexuality (Leviticus 20:13), being a false prophet (Deuteronomy 13:5), prostitution and rape (Deuteronomy 22:24), and several other crimes. However, God often showed mercy when the death penalty was due. David committed adultery and murder, yet God did not demand his life be taken (2 Samuel 11:1-5, 14-17; 2 Samuel 12:13). Ultimately, every sin we commit should result in the death penalty because the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). Thankfully, God demonstrates His love for us in not condemning us (Romans 5:8).
When the Pharisees brought a woman who was caught in the act of adultery to Jesus and asked Him if she should be stoned, Jesus replied, “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her†(John 8:7). This should not be used to indicate that Jesus rejected capital punishment in all instances. Jesus was simply exposing the hypocrisy of the Pharisees. The Pharisees wanted to trick Jesus into breaking the Old Testament law; they did not truly care about the woman being stoned (where was the man who was caught in adultery?) God is the One who instituted capital punishment: “Whoever sheds man's blood, by man his blood shall be shed, for in the image of God He made man†(Genesis 9:6). Jesus would support capital punishment in some instances. Jesus also demonstrated grace when capital punishment was due (John 8:1-11). The apostle Paul definitely recognized the power of the government to institute capital punishment where appropriate (Romans 13:1-7).
How should a Christian view the death penalty? First, we must remember that God has instituted capital punishment in His Word; therefore, it would be presumptuous of us to think that we could institute a higher standard. God has the highest standard of any being; He is perfect. This standard applies not only to us but to Himself. Therefore, He loves to an infinite degree, and He has mercy to an infinite degree. We also see that He has wrath to an infinite degree, and it is all maintained in a perfect balance.
Second, we must recognize that God has given government the authority to determine when capital punishment is due (Genesis 9:6; Romans 13:1-7). It is unbiblical to claim that God opposes the death penalty in all instances. Christians should never rejoice when the death penalty is employed, but at the same time, Christians should not fight against the government’s right to execute the perpetrators of the most evil of crimes.
Recommended Resources: Logos Bible Software and The Death Penalty: Historical & Theological Survey by James Megivern.
http://www.gotquestions.org/death-penalty.html
Answer: The Old Testament law commanded the death penalty for various acts: murder (Exodus 21:12), kidnapping (Exodus 21:16), bestiality (Exodus 22:19), adultery (Leviticus 20:10), homosexuality (Leviticus 20:13), being a false prophet (Deuteronomy 13:5), prostitution and rape (Deuteronomy 22:24), and several other crimes. However, God often showed mercy when the death penalty was due. David committed adultery and murder, yet God did not demand his life be taken (2 Samuel 11:1-5, 14-17; 2 Samuel 12:13). Ultimately, every sin we commit should result in the death penalty because the wages of sin is death (Romans 6:23). Thankfully, God demonstrates His love for us in not condemning us (Romans 5:8).
When the Pharisees brought a woman who was caught in the act of adultery to Jesus and asked Him if she should be stoned, Jesus replied, “If any one of you is without sin, let him be the first to throw a stone at her†(John 8:7). This should not be used to indicate that Jesus rejected capital punishment in all instances. Jesus was simply exposing the hypocrisy of the Pharisees. The Pharisees wanted to trick Jesus into breaking the Old Testament law; they did not truly care about the woman being stoned (where was the man who was caught in adultery?) God is the One who instituted capital punishment: “Whoever sheds man's blood, by man his blood shall be shed, for in the image of God He made man†(Genesis 9:6). Jesus would support capital punishment in some instances. Jesus also demonstrated grace when capital punishment was due (John 8:1-11). The apostle Paul definitely recognized the power of the government to institute capital punishment where appropriate (Romans 13:1-7).
How should a Christian view the death penalty? First, we must remember that God has instituted capital punishment in His Word; therefore, it would be presumptuous of us to think that we could institute a higher standard. God has the highest standard of any being; He is perfect. This standard applies not only to us but to Himself. Therefore, He loves to an infinite degree, and He has mercy to an infinite degree. We also see that He has wrath to an infinite degree, and it is all maintained in a perfect balance.
Second, we must recognize that God has given government the authority to determine when capital punishment is due (Genesis 9:6; Romans 13:1-7). It is unbiblical to claim that God opposes the death penalty in all instances. Christians should never rejoice when the death penalty is employed, but at the same time, Christians should not fight against the government’s right to execute the perpetrators of the most evil of crimes.
Recommended Resources: Logos Bible Software and The Death Penalty: Historical & Theological Survey by James Megivern.
W
Webers_Home
Guest
*
†. Rom 6:23 . . For the wages of sin is death.
However, though people covered by Christ's execution as per Isa 53:6, Rom 7:1-6, Rom 6:3, Rom 6:6, Gal 2:20, and Col 3:3 need not ever again fear the wrath of God; according to Rom 13:1-5, those covered by Christ's execution still need to fear their own country's criminal justice system.
Murder (Gen 9:5-6, Ex 21:12-14, Lev 24:17, Lev 24:21, Num 35:31-34)
Assault and Battery upon parents (Ex 21:15)
<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:p< O:p< font>Kidnapping (Ex 21:16)<O:p< O:p< font>
Execrating parents (Ex 21:17)<O:p< O:p< font>
Harboring an animal known to be dangerous to human life (Ex 21:28-29)
Adultery (Lev 20:10, Deut 22:22)<O:p< O:p< font>
Cohabitating with a mother and her daughter (Lev 20:14)<O:p< O:p< font>
Sleeping with a daughter-in-law (Lev 20:12)
Homosexuality (Lev 20:13)
Sleeping with the wife of one's father (Lev 20:11)
<O:p< O:p< font>Necromancy (Lev 20:27)
<O:p< O:p< font>Contempt of court (Deut 17:8-13)
<O:p< O:p< font>Perjury (Deut 19:16-21)
<O:p< O:p< font>Breaking the Sabbath (Ex 31:12-17)
<O:p< O:p< font>Propagating cults and isms (Deut 13:1-18)
<O:p< O:p< font>Blaspheme (Lev 24:13-16)
<O:p< O:p< font>Malicious miscarriage (Ex 21:22-24)
<O:p< O:p< font>Bestiality (Ex 22:18, Lev 20:15-16)
<O:p< O:p< font>Tainted Virgins (Deut 22:13-21)
<O:p< O:p< font>Naughty fiancée (Deut 22:23-27)
<O:p< O:p< font>Sorcery (Ex 22:18)
<O:p< O:p< font>Reprobate progeny (Deut 21:18-21)
According to Deut 27:26 and Rom 6:23, all manner of sin is worthy of capital punishment at the Great White Throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15. But the above are death sentences to "live by". In other words; it is God's wishes that the above sentences be the law of the land, and that those behaviors be summarily dealt with not as felonies deserving life in prison; but as capital crimes deserving nothing less than death.
Buen Camino
/
</O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<>
Jesus' execution satisfied the death penalty as per the passage below.
†. Rom 6:23 . . For the wages of sin is death.
However, though people covered by Christ's execution as per Isa 53:6, Rom 7:1-6, Rom 6:3, Rom 6:6, Gal 2:20, and Col 3:3 need not ever again fear the wrath of God; according to Rom 13:1-5, those covered by Christ's execution still need to fear their own country's criminal justice system.
I mentioned homosexuality in post #78-- not to pick on the gays; but only because gay marriage has been a hot item in the news recently. However; as you pointed out, there are other behaviors for which God mandates the death penalty. Below are a few off the top of my head.
Murder (Gen 9:5-6, Ex 21:12-14, Lev 24:17, Lev 24:21, Num 35:31-34)
Assault and Battery upon parents (Ex 21:15)
<?XML:NAMESPACE PREFIX = O /><O:p< O:p< font>Kidnapping (Ex 21:16)<O:p< O:p< font>
Execrating parents (Ex 21:17)<O:p< O:p< font>
Harboring an animal known to be dangerous to human life (Ex 21:28-29)
Adultery (Lev 20:10, Deut 22:22)<O:p< O:p< font>
Cohabitating with a mother and her daughter (Lev 20:14)<O:p< O:p< font>
Sleeping with a daughter-in-law (Lev 20:12)
Homosexuality (Lev 20:13)
Sleeping with the wife of one's father (Lev 20:11)
<O:p< O:p< font>Necromancy (Lev 20:27)
<O:p< O:p< font>Contempt of court (Deut 17:8-13)
<O:p< O:p< font>Perjury (Deut 19:16-21)
<O:p< O:p< font>Breaking the Sabbath (Ex 31:12-17)
<O:p< O:p< font>Propagating cults and isms (Deut 13:1-18)
<O:p< O:p< font>Blaspheme (Lev 24:13-16)
<O:p< O:p< font>Malicious miscarriage (Ex 21:22-24)
<O:p< O:p< font>Bestiality (Ex 22:18, Lev 20:15-16)
<O:p< O:p< font>Tainted Virgins (Deut 22:13-21)
<O:p< O:p< font>Naughty fiancée (Deut 22:23-27)
<O:p< O:p< font>Sorcery (Ex 22:18)
<O:p< O:p< font>Reprobate progeny (Deut 21:18-21)
According to Deut 27:26 and Rom 6:23, all manner of sin is worthy of capital punishment at the Great White Throne event depicted at Rev 20:11-15. But the above are death sentences to "live by". In other words; it is God's wishes that the above sentences be the law of the land, and that those behaviors be summarily dealt with not as felonies deserving life in prison; but as capital crimes deserving nothing less than death.
Buen Camino
/
</O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<></O:p<>
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jasoncran
Member
- May 17, 2009
- 38,271
- 185
Re: *
I see a double standard. if Christ paid that penalty while I do agree that laws do need to meted out but Im calling you out those sins that are legal in America and yet you have said that's under the blood. funny how many repented murders do we know.?
I see a double standard. if Christ paid that penalty while I do agree that laws do need to meted out but Im calling you out those sins that are legal in America and yet you have said that's under the blood. funny how many repented murders do we know.?
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