The Devils Website

[destiny]

You shouldn't. But you should be able to reconcile all your beliefs. For example, you can not have the following set of beliefs:

1. Killing innocent children is always bad.
2. God kills innocent children.
3. God does nothing bad.

Number 3 is the right answer.
You reason from your own understanding, Quath.
This doesn't make your reasoning right when you stand in judgment through limited human knowledge of an all powerful completey sovereign supernatural creator.
It is God's right to bring judgment on whom He desires, when He desires, through whom He desires, in the manner that He desires. Man simply does not have all of the knowledge required to judge God on this issue.
Women and children were part of God's judgment in order to completely destroy the influence and Idolatry of the foreign nations and their corruption of Israel.
The thing that absolutely matters is what a person's relationship to God is. If children are "innocent" they will be judged by God as such, even if they die as part of Gods judgment against the nation in which they lived.
God is standing on this realm, and He is also standing on the eternal realm. He sees the whole picture, we see less than half.
If we could see the finality of where those children ended up, we would cheer instead of mourn; We would praise God instead of judge Him.
We cannot comprehend it all.

PS...I didn't quote any scripture because we have been through this 100's of times already.

 

[Featherbop]

Rationality is kind of like pacifism.

It only works if everyone does it.

 

[destiny]

Rationality is kind of like pacifism.

It only works if everyone does it.

As the word says...

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1Corinthians 2:15

You can't always rationalize that which is spiritual with an unbeliever. God is supernatural, you have to know Him in spirit and in truth.
This is why we keep having circular arguments yet coming to no understanding.

 

[Featherbop]

But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know them, because they are spiritually discerned. 1Corinthians 2:15

I've wondered how spiritual discernment works. It seems that it doesn't work well at all because there are many religions, and even many different sects and the like within the religions, each with unique sets of doctrine.

At best, I can see spiritual discernment as people believing they receive messages of God through feelings. Of course, if that is what God does, it doesn't work very well for the aforementioned reasons.

You can't always rationalize that which is spiritual with an unbeliever.

Right. Like I said, rationality only works if all parties do it.

This is why we keep having circular arguments yet coming to no understanding.

Yeah. It'd just be so much easier if we skeptics and rationlists simply accepted what believers say-no questions asked. :robot:

 

[jgredline]

Quath

While you are 100% wrong in what you believe, atleast you don't claim to be a Christian and I respect that.. Where in Cali do you live? How old are you?
Blessings.
Javier

 

[Quath]

You shouldn't. But you should be able to reconcile all your beliefs. For example, you can not have the following set of beliefs:

1. Killing innocent children is always bad.
2. God kills innocent children.
3. God does nothing bad.

Number 3 is the right answer.

I could probably show #2 from scripture easily enough. My guess is that you would have to give up on #1.

I am not really saying which is the right answer. I think from talking to Drew, that he would disagree with #2 by saying that parts of the Old Testament are not true. But to be logically consistent, you have to say at least one of those are wrong.

You reason from your own understanding, Quath.
This doesn't make your reasoning right when you stand in judgment through limited human knowledge of an all powerful completey sovereign supernatural creator.

Do you think that God would be illogical? If so, then we can have no understanding of him. If not, then we can use logic to understand him.

Where in Cali do you live? How old are you?

I live near the Bay area, in a small town called Patterson. I am 35 years old.

 

[destiny]

1. Killing innocent children is always bad.
2. God kills innocent children.
3. God does nothing bad.
Number 3 is the right answer.
I could probably show #2 from scripture easily enough. My guess is that you would have to give up on #1.

I can agree with you there. I think scripture is clear as to why God ordered men, woman, and children killed.
We might not like it, but it's not illogical. His logic was so that Israel wouldn't become corrupted currently or in the future.

I am not really saying which is the right answer. I think from talking to Drew, that he would disagree with #2 by saying that parts of the Old Testament are not true. But to be logically consistent, you have to say at least one of those are wrong.

I would say through Gods (all knowing) eyes that number 1 isn't true. He obviously knew what the future would bring.

Do you think that God would be illogical? If so, then we can have no understanding of him. If not, then we can use logic to understand him.

I think that scripture which lays out Gods reasoning helps us to see His logic whether we like it or not.
Although some things relating to God require spiritual understanding, I don't really think this is one of those cases.

 

[ikester7579]

Still judging the God you don't know huh, Quath? Isn't it safe to say that Darwin has been proven an idiot at about every level? Why should we trust your judgment of our God?

:smt064 to you, too ;-)

You notice that Darwin's education, plus that of those who were his supporters are never brought up in E vs. C debates. But that's probably something for another thread. :

 

[Quath]

You notice that Darwin's education, plus that of those who were his supporters are never brought up in E vs. C debates. But that's probably something for another thread. :

I don't think it would matter if Darwin was a lunatic who shouted things at random and babbled words to this theory. What matters is the physical evidence found that does support it since then.

If you want education level to be involved, then you should look at the beliefs of the most educated today. About 95% of all scientists of all fields believe in evolution. If you just look to the life sciences field, it is over 99%.

Heh, this des look like something for another thread, so I will stop here with this.

 

[Joudie]

See? See what I mean? Dangit, people...!

Look, someone on some website compiled a sizeable list of contradictions and other inconsistencies that he or she saw as true in the Bible.

Lewis W and Gary both have compiled similar lists from similar websites about Islam, and a lot, if not almost all, of you wholeheartedly believe that what these sites say are true, *simply* because it fits with what you want to believe in. (Obviously, you'll tell yourselves otherwise, but really, you're not fooling anyone except yourselves and everyone like you.)

You are judging without knowing what the heck it is you're judging, and you condemn others for doing the same thing to the Bible.

Can you spell "hypocrite"? 'Cause I sure can.

 

[Atonement]

Joudie,
If your going to mention people like Lewis and Gary, you should really quote from them so the rest of us have an idea what to look for in the meaning of your post..

 

[Joudie]

I believe I made an error. Both posts I had in mind were by Lewis W...I must have misread, I thought one was by Lewis W and the other by Gary. For that I apologize.

I'd have quoted Lewis W's posts, but they're both quite long, so I'll just provide the links to them and save everyone a ton of scrolling. They're in the "Christianity and Other Religions" forum, in case you want to go there manually.

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 27&start=0


http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=18346

There ya go...hope they work...

 

[Atonement]

thank you

 

[Lewis]

I believe I made an error. Both posts I had in mind were by Lewis W...I must have misread, I thought one was by Lewis W and the other by Gary. For that I apologize.

I'd have quoted Lewis W's posts, but they're both quite long, so I'll just provide the links to them and save everyone a ton of scrolling. They're in the "Christianity and Other Religions" forum, in case you want to go there manually.

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 27&start=0


http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=18346

There ya go...hope they work...

If you want to talk about this' take it back over there.

 

[destiny]

What does any of that have to do with this topic?

 

[Joudie]

Destiny and Lewis W,

It's *not* the topic of the threads to whose links I provided that I'm talking about...it's not like I want to start a discussion on the Hadith or illogical stuff one finds in the Qur'an, if I wanted to do that I'd gladly take it over to the other section.

What I'm talking about is the fact that someone made a website, and in it he or she rattled off a considerable list of things he or she found wrong with the Qur'an/Hadith, and settled it as fact. It was posted and treated as fact, and a lot of forum members denounced the Islam even further because of what this website said.

Now here's another website, doing pretty much the exact same thing, but to the Bible. A lot of you say that what he or she is saying is not true, and denounce the website as providing falsehoods about Christianity and the Bible. Please, correct me if I'm wrong.

However, here's my point. If someone creates a website denouncing Islam and puts up the same kind of proof that this person did in denouncing Christianity, you all agree with it. (I don't want to generalize. I'll say most of you agree with it.)

However, when one does the same thing with Christianity, most of you immediately disagree with it. You are quick to agree with whatever you want to believe in, simply because you *want* to believe in it. It doesn't seem to matter if it's the truth or not.

Look, I'm not agreeing with what the person who made up the site is saying. I'm just saying you're very quick to judge as good is that which fits in nicely with your beliefs, and quick to reject things that don't. I'm not saying Islam is perfect, nor that the Qur'an is flawless...I don't believe the Bible is flawless either, nor the Torah. Still, it's what you believe in, and as long as it gives you peace and helps you lead your life in a good and honest way, I say more power to you. I just wanted to make a point, that a lot of you members are closed-minded to an almost scary degree.

If I continue further, I'm guessing it's going to turn into a Christianity vs. Islam kinda thing, so I suppose we'll just resume in the Christianity and Other Religions forums if you wish.

 

[Atonement]

Joudie,
With a touchy matter as this, I would ask that you move it to the Christianity and other religions forum. Thank you

 

[father--son--holy spirit]

That web site is a load of crap. Maybe the reason it doesn't menchion some of the prophicese fufillments becuase we don't need to know. And the people who run this web site obviosly don't know what metophores or figures of speech are!