The Dreadful Godless option

[humble soul]

One reason I believe. Have faith in a benevolent God existing: ....
The alternative makes me nauseous, depressed, sick .....
My life is meaningless? No judgement Day so better start getting as many sins in before I die. Go on a sin spree!!
The winners are the rich and powerful? The rest of us are sad losers??

No I will never accept the atheist pov...

 

[Christ_empowered]

i kinda think the same way, except...

remember in the NT, somewhere it is written that God has made Himself evident, even to those who may never hear of Jesus, etc.? yeah...

so, when one comes to the conclusion "that is wrong," or at the very least "that is unfair," the -obvious- question is: based on what? or, from a Christian perspective...

based on -whom-, whose authority, does anyone come to the conclusion that anything, no matter how inane or how monstrously dreadful, is bad, unfair, unjust, just not right, etc. ?

time and time again, this line of thought...leads me back to Jesus Christ, thank goodness.

I don't think atheists even want a truly godless world. 30 year old, healthy atheist says "survival of the fittest!," will one day be 62 year old atheist, facing cancer or pneumonia, aging out of an increasingly age-ist and able-ist work force...

on what grounds will he or she justify his ongoing existence?

--and im finished--

 

[humble soul]

30 year old, healthy atheist says "survival of the fittest!," will one day be 62 year old atheist, facing cancer or pneumonia, aging out of an increasingly age-ist and able-ist work force

Too true.
That's life.
When you are old and facing terminal illness with pain, you can't avoid the big questions..
" What does this all mean?"
"Where am I headed?"
"Who really cares whether I live or die?"

 

[humble soul]

You cant tell me atheists don't fantasise about reunions with loved ones? The best part about Heaven.

 

[Christ_empowered]

i could have maybe come up with a better example?

i just think...well, without Jesus or at least...(some) Christian morality in play...

it'll be some variant of Law of the jungle (eugenics, social darwinism), or in more 'progressive' places, a godless sort of ethics that value maximum happiness for more and more people over pain...which, honestly, can often line up with what I'd consider genuine Christian morality (the rich should pay their fair share, social programs, universal health care, worker protections, environmental protections, etc.), but then you see how the godless component makes it deadly, like in the Netherlands where apparently everybody and their mama is being euthanised and/or ending life with some sort of medically-assisted/facilitated suicide....my guess in the case of the Netherlands, and also Belgium, is that if the gov't could or would pump more $$$ into palliative care, health care in general...suddenly, they'd have more emphasis on the inherent value of each human being. maybe. Scripture also speaks of being in and the world as having a '...house built on sand...' vs the '...house built on the rock...,' when one is in Christ and applies His morality to life, outlook ('...put on the mind of Christ...'). secular, worldly values/morals/outlooks vary wildly, change over time...unstable.

 

[humble soul]

i could have maybe come up with a better example?

i just think...well, without Jesus or at least...(some) Christian morality in play...

it'll be some variant of Law of the jungle (eugenics, social darwinism), or in more 'progressive' places, a godless sort of ethics that value maximum happiness for more and more people over pain...which, honestly, can often line up with what I'd consider genuine Christian morality (the rich should pay their fair share, social programs, universal health care, worker protections, environmental protections, etc.), but then you see how the godless component makes it deadly, like in the Netherlands where apparently everybody and their mama is being euthanised and/or ending life with some sort of medically-assisted/facilitated suicide....my guess in the case of the Netherlands, and also Belgium, is that if the gov't could or would pump more $$$ into palliative care, health care in general...suddenly, they'd have more emphasis on the inherent value of each human being. maybe. Scripture also speaks of being in and the world as having a '...house built on sand...' vs the '...house built on the rock...,' when one is in Christ and applies His morality to life, outlook ('...put on the mind of Christ...'). secular, worldly values/morals/outlooks vary wildly, change over time...unstable.

I think you are starting to jive empowered. You are on a roll today.

 

[humble soul]

Atheists will argue of course that there doesn't have to be a moral vacuum, if there is no God. We can love each other anyway.
Why choose decency? Why be a good boy? Because, because, we can be happier in this life if we are nice. Nice people. Nice atheists being nice to each other in a nice world.

 

[Link1983]

i could have maybe come up with a better example?

i just think...well, without Jesus or at least...(some) Christian morality in play...

it'll be some variant of Law of the jungle (eugenics, social darwinism), or in more 'progressive' places, a godless sort of ethics that value maximum happiness for more and more people over pain...which, honestly, can often line up with what I'd consider genuine Christian morality (the rich should pay their fair share, social programs, universal health care, worker protections, environmental protections, etc.), but then you see how the godless component makes it deadly, like in the Netherlands where apparently everybody and their mama is being euthanised and/or ending life with some sort of medically-assisted/facilitated suicide....my guess in the case of the Netherlands, and also Belgium, is that if the gov't could or would pump more $$$ into palliative care, health care in general...suddenly, they'd have more emphasis on the inherent value of each human being. maybe. Scripture also speaks of being in and the world as having a '...house built on sand...' vs the '...house built on the rock...,' when one is in Christ and applies His morality to life, outlook ('...put on the mind of Christ...'). secular, worldly values/morals/outlooks vary wildly, change over time...unstable.

Morality comes from an understanding of right and wrong. Right?
I was reading and the one thing that came to mind is, our consciences.
An atheist could argue that right and wrong is a man made law.
But then i would argue with their/our consciences.
Can any atheist argue with that?

 

[Link1983]

Atheists will argue of course that there doesn't have to be a moral vacuum, if there is no God. We can love each other anyway.
Why choose decency? Why be a good boy? Because, because, we can be happier in this life of we are nice. Nice people. Nice atheists being nice to each other in a nice world.

Oh hail humans as gods. We know enough in our short lives with our narrow minds to have figured it all out.
Doesn't even have to make sense, as long as they buy what we are selling.

....the world wants to be deceived.

(Happier posts in progress)

 

[Christ_empowered]

the shiny happy atheists are quick to take the moral high(er) ground, saying they do good things out of some sort of innate godless goodness vs religious people, who apparently only do anything worthwhile when threatened with fire and brimstone. thing is...

ok, i share a lot of 'progressive' and/or 'left wing' opinions with this set of atheists, and the thing about it is...

the world, worldly solutions, fail. a robust safety net is better than no safety net, true, but even with extensive social programs, reduced inequality, and programs to make life bearable in poverty and in general...

making society live-able and the economy work-able are laudable goals, and I'm thankful that at least -some- progress in that direction is coming to these United States. thing is...

Biden cannot forgive me, much less make me whole. even Sanders, warren, cannot. they're...just powerful human beings with good ideas and positions of influence. and...

on a personal level, doing good when possible is a valuable endeavor. but why do good? for example, mama does volunteer work, now. she's not fond of church or church people, but she'll say -- only half jokingly -- that some of her volunteer work involves 'feeding all God's children,' and it does, really. and when her brother , my uncle, fell ill and she put aside stuff he'd done and needed solace, i texted a little Bible symbol in the midst of an ongoing convo, and she was pleased. see what I mean? I -love- my mama, and she's not really godless, just burned on organized Christianity, but the example holds for other do-gooder, shiny happy atheists...

the very concept of good, bad, evil, acceptable, etc. are rooted in God and His laws and His character.

 

[humble soul]

the shiny happy atheists are quick to take the moral high(er) ground, saying they do good things out of some sort of innate godless goodness vs religious people, who apparently only do anything worthwhile when threatened with fire and brimstone. thing is...

We write similar sometimes. We both have a healthy cynicism imo.

 

[humble soul]

only do anything worthwhile when threatened with fire and brimstone. thing is...

There are a few Christians on forums like this who like to remind you of the Lake of Fire though. It's supposed to be a clincher for debates/discussions.

 

[Link1983]

the shiny happy atheists are quick to take the moral high(er) ground, saying they do good things out of some sort of innate godless goodness vs religious people, who apparently only do anything worthwhile when threatened with fire and brimstone. thing is...

ok, i share a lot of 'progressive' and/or 'left wing' opinions with this set of atheists, and the thing about it is...

the world, worldly solutions, fail. a robust safety net is better than no safety net, true, but even with extensive social programs, reduced inequality, and programs to make life bearable in poverty and in general...

making society live-able and the economy work-able are laudable goals, and I'm thankful that at least -some- progress in that direction is coming to these United States. thing is...

Biden cannot forgive me, much less make me whole. even Sanders, warren, cannot. they're...just powerful human beings with good ideas and positions of influence. and...

on a personal level, doing good when possible is a valuable endeavor. but why do good? for example, mama does volunteer work, now. she's not fond of church or church people, but she'll say -- only half jokingly -- that some of her volunteer work involves 'feeding all God's children,' and it does, really. and when her brother , my uncle, fell ill and she put aside stuff he'd done and needed solace, i texted a little Bible symbol in the midst of an ongoing convo, and she was pleased. see what I mean? I -love- my mama, and she's not really godless, just burned on organized Christianity, but the example holds for other do-gooder, shiny happy atheists...

the very concept of good, bad, evil, acceptable, etc. are rooted in God and His laws and His character.

Some say that the road to hell is paved with good intentions.
I don't think so.
I think it is more paved with seemingly good intentions, that are false, selfish, and corrupt

 

[humble soul]

Christians aren't necessarily the good guys and atheists the Hell bound villains.
Christians are the ones willing to take a risk on something that can't be fully explained scientifically. That's humility in my view.
"Maybe I can't figure this all out myself".

 

[Link1983]

Christians aren't necessarily the good guys and atheists the Hell bound villains.
Christians are the ones willing to take a risk on something that can't be fully explained scientifically. That's humility in my view.
"Maybe I can't figure this all out myself".

I don't think we should or can fit individuals into categories. Some Christians may not be...
Appearance can deceive.
God sees the intentions of the heart of man. Religion doesn't matter.
Man made. And most filthy

 

[Christ_empowered]

Scripture says that there are false teachers, false prophets, wolves in sheep's clothing, even people who cast out demons and such in His name...

and this will be the case till Harvest time, wheat and tares, growing up together. meanwhile...

Barna, the data crunching company that keeps tabs on US Christianity (I don't know about international data, sorry) puts the % of US residents with a (Protestant) Christian worldview at or a bit under 6%, with considerable regional variation (higher in the southeast...I think low in the west, maybe?), and the % of professed Born Again Christians who meet the basic criteria for a Christian worldview at about 1 in 4. Even among church leaders, it seems that there's a good % who don't actually believe The Good News, with some denominations having more of a problem with godless leaders in the priestly class than others.

so, for an atheist to point to a Christian and criticize is a) to be expected and b) based on Scripture, not a condemnation of those who love The Lord, because odds are stacked against even a regular church goer in today's society being truly Born Again, etc. Not that I'm here to point and criticize in holier than thou style...

My worldview is a work in progress, most definitely. And...my worldview is a product of my faith, which I believe is, in and of itself, a work of and blessing from The Lord....but "...work out your salvation with fear and trembling...," its an ongoing process, amen.

ramble ramble...here's a link : https://www.frc.org/updatearticle/20200512/latest-surveys

 

[Christ_empowered]

oh, and this: https://www.crosswalk.com/church/pa...-pastors-have-biblical-worldview-1241100.html

 

[Link1983]

Christians aren't necessarily the good guys and atheists the Hell bound villains.
Christians are the ones willing to take a risk on something that can't be fully explained scientifically. That's humility in my view.
"Maybe I can't figure this all out myself".

Yes. This is the Humble i like.

 

[Link1983]

Scripture says that there are false teachers, false prophets, wolves in sheep's clothing, even people who cast out demons and such in His name...

and this will be the case till Harvest time, wheat and tares, growing up together. meanwhile...

Barna, the data crunching company that keeps tabs on US Christianity (I don't know about international data, sorry) puts the % of US residents with a (Protestant) Christian worldview at or a bit under 6%, with considerable regional variation (higher in the southeast...I think low in the west, maybe?), and the % of professed Born Again Christians who meet the basic criteria for a Christian worldview at about 1 in 4. Even among church leaders, it seems that there's a good % who don't actually believe The Good News, with some denominations having more of a problem with godless leaders in the priestly class than others.

so, for an atheist to point to a Christian and criticize is a) to be expected and b) based on Scripture, not a condemnation of those who love The Lord, because odds are stacked against even a regular church goer in today's society being truly Born Again, etc. Not that I'm here to point and criticize in holier than thou style...

My worldview is a work in progress, most definitely. And...my worldview is a product of my faith, which I believe is, in and of itself, a work of and blessing from The Lord....but "...work out your salvation with fear and trembling...," its an ongoing process, amen.

ramble ramble...here's a link : https://www.frc.org/updatearticle/20200512/latest-surveys

Right.. although I personally don't fancy statistics much.
I mean in the context of assumption.
Based on half truths or made with a purposely leading end result..

 

[humble soul]

Yes. This is the Humble i like.

What? You don't like all the Humbles?
We are one big happy family.
Angry opinionated Humble is quite unpopular.i don't mind him though. I understand his pain.