The ELCA

[Heidi]

Well, the Evangelical Church of America has finally come out and agreed with Satan on homosexuality.
The ELCA has officially declared that unrepentant homosexuals are not only welcomed in the church, they'll be able to be leaders in the church. There is now no difference between the beliefs of the Lutherans and the beliefs of the secular world that's ruled by Satan. They are one and the same:

MINNEAPOLIS (ELCA) - The 2009 Churchwide Assembly of the Evangelical Lutheran Church in America (ELCA) voted today to open the ministry of the church to gay and lesbian pastors and other professional workers living in committed relationships.
The action came by a vote of 559-451 at the highest legislative body of the 4.6 million member denomination. Earlier the assembly also approved a resolution committing the church to find ways for congregations that choose to do so to "recognize, support and hold publicly accountable life-long, monogamous, same gender relationships," though the resolution did not use the word "marriage."
The actions here change the church's policy, which previously allowed gays and lesbians into the ordained ministry only if they remained celibate.
Throughout the assembly, which opened Aug. 17, the more than 1,000 voting members have debated issues of human sexuality. On Wednesday they adopted a social statement on the subject as a teaching tool and policy guide for the denomination.
The churchwide assembly of the ELCA is meeting here Aug. 17-23 at the Minneapolis Convention Center. About 2,000 people are participating, including 1,045 ELCA voting members. The theme for the biennial assembly is "God's work. Our hands."
Before discussing the thornier issues of same-gender unions in the ordained ministry, the assembly approved, by a vote of 771-230, a resolution committing the church to respect the differences of opinions on the matter and honor the "bound consciences" of those who disagree.
During the hours of discussion, led by ELCA Presiding Bishop Mark S. Hanson, the delegates paused several times each hour for prayer, sometimes as a whole assembly, sometimes in small groups around the tables where the voting members of the assembly sat, debated and cast their votes.
Discussion here proved that matters of sexuality will be contentious throughout the church. A resolution that would have reasserted the church's current policy drew 344 votes, but failed because it was rejected by 670 of the voting members.
Pastor Richard Mahan of the ELCA West Virginia-Western Maryland Synod was among several speakers contending that the proposed changes are contrary to biblical teaching. "I cannot see how the church that I have known for 40 years can condone what God has condemned," Mahan said, "Nowhere does it say in scripture that homosexuality and same sex marriage is acceptable of God."
But others said a greater acceptance of people who are gay and lesbian in the church was consistent with the Bible. Bishop Gary Wollersheim of the ELCA Northern Illinois Synod said, "It's a matter of justice, a matter of hospitality, it's what Jesus would have us do." Wollersheim said he had been strongly influenced by meetings with youth at youth leadership events in his synod, a regional unit of the ELCA.
Some speakers contend that the actions taken here will alienate ELCA members and cause a drop in membership. But Allison Guttu of the ELCA Metropolitan New York Synod said, "I have seen congregations flourish while engaging these issues; I have seen congregations grow recognizing the gifts of gay and lesbian pastors."
During discussion of resolutions on implementation of the proposals, Bishop Kurt Kusserow of the ELCA Southwestern Pennsylvania Synod asked that the church make clear provision in its policies to recognize the conviction of members who believe that this church cannot call or roster people in a publicly accountable, lifelong, monagamous, same-gender relationship. A resolution that the denomination consider a proposal for how it will exercise flexibility within its existing structure and practices to allow Lutherans in same gender relationship to be approved for professional service in the church. That resolution passed by a vote of 667-307.
-----
So my question is; how many of you will follow 1 Corinthians 5:11 and not even eat with people who call themselves Christians and support sexual immorality?

 

[jasoncran]

disfellowship then yes, i know noone of the ecla, we can witness but shouldn't call them brothers and sisters in christ. But lets also pray for them to be restored and calling sin sin.

 

[D4Christ]

Well, the Evangelical Church of America has finally come out and agreed with Satan on homosexuality.
The ELCA has officially declared that unrepentant homosexuals are not only welcomed in the church, they'll be able to be leaders in the church.

So my question is; how many of you will follow 1 Corinthians 5:11 and not even eat with people who call themselves Christians and support sexual immorality?

That's a shame.... But as we near the end it is to be expected. I know the church has been falling away, but I can only wonder what form the Great Falling away will take...

Blessings,
Deirdre

 

[Heidi]

disfellowship then yes, i know noone of the ecla, we can witness but shouldn't call them brothers and sisters in christ. But lets also pray for them to be restored and calling sin sin.

Unfortunately, I live in Lutheran country and I know many people who belong to the ELCA. I have dropped out of various organization and I now have to cut off contact with my daughter since she sees nothing wrong with homosexuality but claims to be a believer. That means that I am cut off from 4 of my grandchildren as well. The cost of following Christ is high.

 

[jasoncran]

disfellowship then yes, i know noone of the ecla, we can witness but shouldn't call them brothers and sisters in christ. But lets also pray for them to be restored and calling sin sin.

Unfortunately, I live in Lutheran country and I know many people who belong to the ELCA. I have dropped out of various organization and I now have to cut off contact with my daughter since she sees nothing wrong with homosexuality but claims to be a believer. That means that I am cut off from 4 of my grandchildren as well. The cost of following Christ is high.

i have a friend who's a believer and his own daughter is a lesbian, he still has the dad and daughter relationship, he's let her know what she's doing is wrong, but i wouldnt throw away the relationship over that, if she's a drunkard,wait a christian who's backsliden what then?

My point is point out their error and tell them they arent part of the fellowship and use wisdom in how much let we let them in our lives, do business with them, no, marry, no. But you can still have a friendship with them. Or parental relationship with them.

jason

 

[Heidi]

Actually, as always, I rely on the word of God to tell me with whom I should associate and with whom I should not. God tells us in 1 Corinthians 5:10-11 that we can associate with unbelievers who are sexually immoral because they don't pretend to be sheep. But he tells us specifically not to associate with those who pretend to be sheep but are really wolves. I agree with Him.

 

[stovebolts]

Actually, as always, I rely on the word of God to tell me with whom I should associate and with whom I should not. God tells us in 1 Corinthians 5:10-11 that we can associate with unbelievers who are sexually immoral because they don't pretend to be sheep. But he tells us specifically not to associate with those who pretend to be sheep but are really wolves. I agree with Him.

Hello Heidi,
Wow, it's been a long time since we've seen you. I pray that God has been good to you.

After reading your post, I thought that it was very sad that you are cutting yourself off from your own family due to your convictions. But then again, this is coming from the perspective that I hold which esteems and puts a high value on family... and to think, I have one brother in prison, a sister who's addicted to drugs, another brother who's addicted to porn and drugs... you get the idea. All of them believe in some sort of God, but none call themselves a Christian. Should I be thankful over this matter since according to what you have posted, if they were to claim Christ as their saviour, I would have to disassociate with them.

Keep in mind Sister, that even sheep wander. This is why the sheep need a shepherd. I do not know your relatives, but I would caution from accusing one of being a wolf.

Grace and peace.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

after watching a video about this lutheran thing i saw that this article was written almost like a parable. Or at least it was written with many SIGN POSTS in it that we can be noticing and then the Lord was revealing some things to me about this that I am gonna share.

Firstly I will give the information that last week the Evangenlical Lutheran church of america gathered to have a vote on whether lutherans can be unrepented homosexuals living in relationships and whether they can be lutheran pastors. The vote was schedualed for 2:00. At that time on a highway outside of the city a tornado formed that shocked the forecastors and it traveled up the road into the city and turned the tables over where they were voting and turned the cross that was on top of the lutheran church upside down. Their vote had to be 2/3rds for. The percent FOR allowing homosexuality when they voted was 66.67 and it passed by one vote. So the whole lutheran church has just become as sodom. Here is the news article and I am going to comment or add scriptures in between things.


MINNEAPOLIS (AP) - Powerful winds slammed parts of four Midwestern states on Wednesday, leaving behind shattered windows, toppled power lines and a handful of injuries. At least a half dozen suspected tornadoes were reported.
(6)
The National Weather Service received reports of a possible tornado near downtown Minneapolis, where winds tore off part of a 90-year-old metal church steeple.(this was the cross on the steeple) Wisconsin, Iowa and Illinois were also hit, though the only confirmed tornado as of Wednesday night was in Hastings, about 30 miles southeast of Minneapolis, where a 100-yard-long swath of trees was flattened.

Jack Freitag said he was standing in the lobby of the Central Lutheran Church in Minneapolis when he saw "a wall cloud from the south coming across the parking lot." Then a "very loud roar" came through as he saw signs being blown around in the wind.

This is telling in parable form, this man was in the lobby of the church which is symbolic of the outer court, not within in the sancuary. he saw a wall cloud from the SOUTH. and heard a load ROAR and SIGNS flew around showing this is a SIGN.
Jer 2:13 For my people have committed two evils; they have forsaken me the fountain of living waters, [and] hewed them out cisterns, broken cisterns, that can hold no water.


Jer 2:14 ¶ [Is] Israel a servant? [is] he a homeborn [slave]? why is he spoiled?


Jer 2:15 The young lions roared upon him, [and] yelled, and they made his land waste: his cities are burned without inhabitant.

The wind tore off part of the church's 90-year-old metal steeple around 2 p.m. while about 120 people were inside, said church spokesman Joe Bjordal.

This is the cross that was made to hang upside down(i will post a video at the bottom what shows it) and it happened around 2 which was the time the vote was set for! ALSO it mentions 120 people were inside when the WIND tore it off. This reminded me of this.

Act 1:15 ¶ And in those days Peter stood up in the midst of the disciples, and said, (the number of names together were about an hundred and twenty,)

Act 1:16 Men [and] brethren, this scripture must needs have been fulfilled, which the Holy Ghost by the mouth of David spake before concerning Judas, which was guide to them that took Jesus.

This time they were faithfully gathered to replace judas, 120 of them, but in this case the luthern church had 120 gathered to vote to replace Jesus and allow wickedness amoung them. In the case in acts this happens right before the WIND of the Holy Spirit comes upon them in holy power, but in this case the WIND came to the lutherans to destroy the power of the cross amoung them.

(AP) People look at a broken window at the Electric Fetus music store near downtown Minneapolis after...
Full Image


"I was worried about the people then," said Freitag, who told everyone to seek shelter in the church's basement. No one was injured.

It is telling that THIS is what makes others worried about people is the possiblity of physical harm, while they were in the midst of bringing people to spiritual reprobation. Also he told the people to go to the CHURCHES BASEMENT> we know that individually in our bodies we are the church the temple. the basement is symbolic of the flesh because it is the lowest level and it is under the earth- earthly- not given to the sun etc.. so they symolically had people to walk in their flesh to save their physical lives, while having no care for their souls.
Outside the church, strong winds ripped apart large outdoor tents and scattered chairs and folding tables across the parking lot that were set up for the national Evangelical Lutheran Church in America convention. The church was scheduled to serve breakfast to guests attending the event at the Minneapolis Convention Center next door.

"I think we're out of business" for entertaining convention visitors, Bjordal said.

At the Electric Fetus, a landmark independent music store near downtown, strong winds shattered one of the store's windows and caused the roof to cave in.

"It was just the loudest crashing noise," said Stephanie Covart, the store's co-owner. "We didn't know what was happening."


(AP) This photo provided by Crystal Tancig shows a funnel cloud about a mile north of Hastings, Minn. on...
Full Image


A glass panel on a nearby bus shelter was shattered, leaving scattered pieces of glass on the sidewalk.

Meteorologist Dan Luna said it was the sort of storm that meteorologists dread - it didn't look dangerous until it was.
"We worry about the really benign thunderstorm that develops a tornado in the metropolitan area," Luna said. "These sort-lived ones form very quickly and dissipate very fast. They are very hard to predict."

Luna said crews would evaluate the damage in downtown Minneapolis to see if there was more.

Mayor R.T. Rybak toured the area later Wednesday to assess damage and saw a hole in the Convention Center's roof that caused water to leak in. Although there were many reports of downed trees and property damage, there were no reports of injuries, city officials said in a statement.

again they see only physical injuries when the damage done that day was horrific. Downed trees is symolic because in the scriptures Gods people sometimes can be discussed as trees, and certianly those who were aligned with this vote who were part of the 66.67 % FOR the wickedness were trees who were DOWNED. Note on the number obviously 666 with a 7 which says to me it was Gods perfect judgement for their beastliness seen by the 666.

(AP) Workers clean up debris outside Central Lutheran Church from tent which was blown over during the...
Full Image


"It obviously had a significant physical impact but at this point it looks as if we're very fortunate there were relatively few injuries," Rybak said.

First responders were going house-to-house in the area looking for victims.

This reminds me of the devil roaring about seeing whom he MAY devour. The true "victims" of this can only be seen by going house to house, that is body to body to see where they stood on this issue.

A possible tornado also was spotted about 60 miles east of the city in Emerald, Wis.

Rev 4:3 And he that sat was to look upon like a jasper and a sardine stone: and [there was] a rainbow round about the throne, in sight like unto an emerald.

I took note that they say 60 and outside emerald. Since emerald is associated with Gods throne and when we read about Gods city we know that the wicked do not get to enter in. hence the tornado 60 miles OUTSIDE emerald(the throne)

In northeast Iowa, a barn roof was blown off near Stanley but only minor damage was reported, local officials said.

In scritpure the " barn" is Gods kingdom that He gathers the wheat into. The Lord removed the covering of the kingdom to spew out those that were within that fell away this day on this vote seeking to corrupt Gods people further.

The National Weather Service reported tornadoes may have touched down near Manchester in west-central Illinois and at Loami southwest of Springfield. Trees and power lines were down.

Manchester means " mother camp" Truly we know that churches are mothers, the church system over all is considered the mother.( paul spoke of being born from his mother refering to judiasm his former religion). The Lutheran church is the MOTHER of the PROTESTANT CHURCHES! It was because of how God used LUTHER to seperate from the catholic church that there is protestant churches today, it is the reason why we all have bibles to know homosexuality is wrong.

AT LOAMI it says.Hsa 1:9 Then said [God], Call his name Loammi: for ye [are] not my people, and I will not be your [God].

Also trees(christians) were downed and powerlines which is symolic of Gods power to His those people is cut off.

Six people were being treated at Springfield hospitals for storm-related injuries. None of the injuries appeared to be life-threatening, hospital personnel said.

---

Associated Press writers Jeff Baenen in Minneapolis and Brian Bakst in St. Paul, Minn. contributed to this report.






After this in talking about it we spoke of how before this vote the catholic church warned the lutheran church and told them that if they allowed this wickedness, that they were straining or breaking their ties to the catholic church. Now when a wicked church is warning another church that if they go this far into wickedness that they will even seperate from them we know something is wrong. This brought us to this chapter in jeremiah for the lesson on this.

Eze 16:44 ¶ Behold, every one that useth proverbs shall use [this] proverb against thee, saying, As [is] the mother, [so is] her daughter.


Eze 16:45 Thou [art] thy mother's daughter, that lotheth her husband and her children; and thou [art] the sister of thy sisters, which lothed their husbands and their children: your mother [was] an Hittite, and your father an Amorite.


Eze 16:46 And thine elder sister [is] Samaria, she and her daughters that dwell at thy left hand: and thy younger sister, that dwelleth at thy right hand, [is] Sodom and her daughters.


Eze 16:47 Yet hast thou not walked after their ways, nor done after their abominations: but, as [if that were] a very little [thing], thou wast corrupted more than they in all thy ways.


Eze 16:48 [As] I live, saith the Lord GOD, Sodom thy sister hath not done, she nor her daughters, as thou hast done, thou and thy daughters.


Eze 16:49 Behold, this was the iniquity of thy sister Sodom, pride, fulness of bread, and abundance of idleness was in her and in her daughters, neither did she strengthen the hand of the poor and needy.


Eze 16:50 And they were haughty, and committed abomination before me: therefore I took them away as I saw [good].


Eze 16:51 Neither hath Samaria committed half of thy sins; but thou hast multiplied thine abominations more than they, and hast justified thy sisters in all thine abominations which thou hast done.


Eze 16:52 Thou also, which hast judged thy sisters, bear thine own shame for thy sins that thou hast committed more abominable than they: they are more righteous than thou: yea, be thou confounded also, and bear thy shame, in that thou hast justified thy sisters.


Eze 16:53 ¶ When I shall bring again their captivity, the captivity of Sodom and her daughters, and the captivity of Samaria and her daughters, then [will I bring again] the captivity of thy captives in the midst of them:


Eze 16:54 That thou mayest bear thine own shame, and mayest be confounded in all that thou hast done, in that thou art a comfort unto them.


Eze 16:55 When thy sisters, Sodom and her daughters, shall return to their former estate, and Samaria and her daughters shall return to their former estate, then thou and thy daughters shall return to your former estate.


Eze 16:56 For thy sister Sodom was not mentioned by thy mouth in the day of thy pride,


Eze 16:57 Before thy wickedness was discovered, as at the time of [thy] reproach of the daughters of Syria, and all [that are] round about her, the daughters of the Philistines, which despise thee round about.


Eze 16:58 Thou hast borne thy lewdness and thine abominations, saith the LORD.


Eze 16:59 For thus saith the Lord GOD; I will even deal with thee as thou hast done, which hast despised the oath in breaking the covenant.



In this case the Lutheran church has become like SODOM- WORSE then her sister the catholic church samaria.- the filth and lewdness( in this case) has exceeded that of her sister.


This is important because the Lutheran church SYMBOLICALLY stands for all the church who originally seperated from the catholic church because of their apostacy- and so it is likewise symbolic of the church protentant church(overall not individually) becomming more wicked then them that they seperated from

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

disfellowship then yes, i know noone of the ecla, we can witness but shouldn't call them brothers and sisters in christ. But lets also pray for them to be restored and calling sin sin.

Unfortunately, I live in Lutheran country and I know many people who belong to the ELCA. I have dropped out of various organization and I now have to cut off contact with my daughter since she sees nothing wrong with homosexuality but claims to be a believer. That means that I am cut off from 4 of my grandchildren as well. The cost of following Christ is high.

Not many are faithful to this extent. I do pray that God will bring the truth in this matter to your daughter and bring her to repentance that you may gain her back and those grand babies. He can do wonders in changing people!

 

[jasoncran]

Actually, as always, I rely on the word of God to tell me with whom I should associate and with whom I should not. God tells us in 1 Corinthians 5:10-11 that we can associate with unbelievers who are sexually immoral because they don't pretend to be sheep. But he tells us specifically not to associate with those who pretend to be sheep but are really wolves. I agree with Him.

Hello Heidi,
Wow, it's been a long time since we've seen you. I pray that God has been good to you.

After reading your post, I thought that it was very sad that you are cutting yourself off from your own family due to your convictions. But then again, this is coming from the perspective that I hold which esteems and puts a high value on family... and to think, I have one brother in prison, a sister who's addicted to drugs, another brother who's addicted to porn and drugs... you get the idea. All of them believe in some sort of God, but none call themselves a Christian. Should I be thankful over this matter since according to what you have posted, if they were to claim Christ as their saviour, I would have to disassociate with them.

Keep in mind Sister, that even sheep wander. This is why the sheep need a shepherd. I do not know your relatives, but I would caution from accusing one of being a wolf.

Grace and peace.

i agree , Most people dont really understand the meaning of fellowship, when you do you'll see why i said what i said. pastor adrain rogers preached on that yesterday.