The Eternal Hellfire Lie Exposed!

[westtexas]

When Jesus used the term "Gehenna", his hearers clearly understood it to be a rubbish dump, situated south/west of Jerusalem where refuse and the bodies of criminals were burnt.

I believe it meant much more than this to the Israelite people. In this same valley, the Valley of Ben Hinnom, King Solomon and the people of Judah built the high places of Topheth and sacrificed their children to the pagan gods Chemosh and Molech. (Jeremiah 7:31-32 and 1 Kings 11:1-7)
The Hebrew word "toph" means to beat a drum or to burn. Topheth is a "place of fire". Tradition says the Israelite people would beat drums to drown out the screams of their children as they were sacrificed, and burned alive, to the gods Chemosh and Molech. I believe when Jesus spoke, the Israelite people would have still heard the beating of the drums-and the screams of the children-and the fires still burned. It was more than a garbage dump to the Israelite people.
Westtexas

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Re: The Lord Loves You

I believe it meant much more than this to the Israelite people. In this same valley, the Valley of Ben Hinnom, King Solomon and the people of Judah built the high places of Topheth and sacrificed their children to the pagan gods Chemosh and Molech. (Jeremiah 7:31-32 and 1 Kings 11:1-7)
The Hebrew word "toph" means to beat a drum or to burn. Topheth is a "place of fire". Tradition says the Israelite people would beat drums to drown out the screams of their children as they were sacrificed, and burned alive, to the gods Chemosh and Molech. I believe when Jesus spoke, the Israelite people would have still heard the beating of the drums-and the screams of the children-and the fires still burned. It was more than a garbage dump to the Israelite people.
Westtexas

What Bible evidence and support do you have that seeing the criminals burned up in the fire and turning to ashes and being destroyed, had more meaning than that to their seeing eyes?

Thank you, I am very interested in your reply and support for your claims.

 

[westtexas]

Re: The Lord Loves You

What Bible evidence and support do you have that seeing the criminals burned up in the fire and turning to ashes and being destroyed, had more meaning than that to their seeing eyes?

Thank you, I am very interested in your reply and support for your claims.

The scriptures are posted above. You don't feel that remembering the atrocities that happened to the children of their ancestors, in that valley, would have had a tremendous impact on the people?
Westtexas

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Re: The Lord Loves You

The scriptures are posted above. You don't feel that remembering the atrocities that happened to the children of their ancestors, in that valley, would have had a tremendous impact on the people?
Westtexas

What Scripture did you post that gives evidence and support to your comment that "I believe it meant much more than this to the Israelite people."

You didn't show me a single verse where it mentions the Israelite people who witnessed the burning fires of Gehenna and the meaning they placed on it. Where in Bible does it say the Israelite people thought the burning of criminals into ashes has a greater meaning attached to it?

Do you now admit no such Scripture exists and that you are only placing your own assumptions into it?

 

[westtexas]

Re: The Lord Loves You

What Scripture did you post that gives evidence and support to your comment that "I believe it meant much more than this to the Israelite people."


Do you now admit no such Scripture exists and that you are only placing your own assumptions into it?

Of course I do. When I study I attempt to use culture, customs and history to try to glean the full meaning of scripture. Thus the beginning of your quote of mine from above--"I BELIEVE"

With that being said, where is YOUR scriptural backing for the statement "His hearers clearly understood it to be a rubbish dump"? Assumption? I'll agree with you that to 21st century Jerusalem, the valley probably just represents a garbage dump. With the historical impact to the Israelite people (some of the verses are posted above) associated with this valley, I'm going to disagree that to 1st century Jerusalem this valley was "clearly just a rubbish dump". Unless you can show me otherwise.
Westtexas

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Re: The Lord Loves You

Of course I do. When I study I attempt to use culture, customs and history to try to glean the full meaning of scripture. Thus the beginning of your quote of mine from above--"I BELIEVE"

With that being said, where is YOUR scriptural backing for the statement "His hearers clearly understood it to be a rubbish dump"? Assumption? I'll agree with you that to 21st century Jerusalem, the valley probably just represents a garbage dump. With the historical impact to the Israelite people (some of the verses are posted above) associated with this valley, I'm going to disagree that to 1st century Jerusalem this valley was "clearly just a rubbish dump". Unless you can show me otherwise.
Westtexas

But you claimed that when they witnessed the fires of Gehenna and saw criminals and animals etc being burned up and turning to ashes, that it had another meaning to them. I then asked you to provide biblical support for that, but as yet you have failed to provide any, hence, your comments are debunked!

 

[westtexas]

Re: The Lord Loves You

But you claimed that when they witnessed the fires of Gehenna and saw criminals and animals etc being burned up and turning to ashes, that it had another meaning to them. I then asked you to provide biblical support for that, but as yet you have failed to provide any, hence, your comments are debunked!

So basically what you are saying is you want to argue and you don't have any scriptural backing for your statement "HIS HEARERS CLEARLY UNDERSTOOD IT TO BE A RUBBISH DUMP"

Where is YOUR biblical support???

 

[westtexas]

Re: The Lord Loves You

The Koine Greek word "aionios" is used in Revelation 20:10 and in other verses such as Matthew 25:46 and has been translated forever and ever! But in Koine Greek it doesn't mean endless at all!

:shocked!YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN ETERNAL LIFE???:shocked!

"Kai apeleusontai outoi eis kolasin aionios oi de dikaioi eis ZOEN AIONIOS"-Matt.25:46 (Interlinear Bible)
"...........but the righteous into LIFE ETERNAL (zoen aionios)" Matt. 25:46 KJV

You have mentioned Matt 25:46. The verse is quoted above in both Greek and English. With your assurance that aionios "doesn't mean endless at all"- would you care to justify ETERNAL LIFE??

Westtexas

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Re: The Lord Loves You

So basically what you are saying is you want to argue and you don't have any scriptural backing for your statement "HIS HEARERS CLEARLY UNDERSTOOD IT TO BE A RUBBISH DUMP"

Where is YOUR biblical support???

So you failed in providing support for your claims, and this is how you respond.2

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Re: The Lord Loves You

:shocked!YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN ETERNAL LIFE???:shocked!

"Kai apeleusontai outoi eis kolasin aionios oi de dikaioi eis ZOEN AIONIOS"-Matt.25:46 (Interlinear Bible)
"...........but the righteous into LIFE ETERNAL (zoen aionios)" Matt. 25:46 KJV

You have mentioned Matt 25:46. The verse is quoted above in both Greek and English. With your assurance that aionios "doesn't mean endless at all"- would you care to justify ETERNAL LIFE??


Westtexas

This is getting off topic so I will start a new thread to answer you.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

The Roman Catholic Church pushed for this "eternal hellfire" teaching so they could get money of out of people from fear during dark ages, and this led and influenced translators to use English words such as "hell" and "eternal" for Greek words that does NOT mean hell or endless.

God is a loving merciful God, and not a tormenting, revengeful and sadistic God as many people will claim that will burn forever the lost where they will be screaming out in TERROR and PAIN forever without being able to ever put a stop to their pain!

What's the purpose of God's punishment as taught in Bible? Punishment is for CORRECTION and REDIRECTION of acts, to align with God's law and repent! Yet with a eternal hellfire, there is no objective in it, there is no end to the punishment and no opportunity to change and repent, hence, NO objective to the punishment! I reject the idea of eternal punishment and my God and my Bible doesn't teach it.

And if the wages of sin was eternal hellfire and agony, that would mean that Jesus, our total substitute, who had to bear the FULL penalty of our sins, would have to burn forever in agony in eternal hellfire.

And here are the reasons why I reject the eternal hellfire lie:

1. It's not taught in Scripture in original languages.

2. God is not a revengeful monster who will torture the lost forever in terrible and horrendous pain that will never cease.

3. The Bible says the lost and Satan will turn to ashes and be destroyed! Heb 2:14, (Psalm 145:20); they will die (Ezekiel 18:4); they will perish (John 3:16); they will be cut off (Psalm 37:28); they will be consumed (Psalm 37:20); they will be burned up (Psalm 97:3); and they shall be no more (Psalm 37:10, Oba 1:16).

4. The Koine Greek word "aionios" is used in Revelation 20:10 and Matthew 25:46 and has been translated forever and ever! But in Koine Greek it doesn't mean endless at all! The term "for ever, eternal, everlasting" as used in the Bible, means simply a period of time, limited or unlimited. It is used 56 times in the Bible in connection with things that have already ended.

5. Immortality is the key. And only the saved will get it! Hence, the lost wont get it and will DIE and not LIVE in some fire. If people were to burn in fire forever, that would mean they are given immortality as well, but this contradicts 1Cor 15:53 and 1 John 5:12! And only the saved will have access to the tree of life in heaven! The lost wont and so hence, cannot live forever in some fire. Surely you are not claiming the lost will be given immortality and live forever without access to the tree of life?

6. Read about the city of Edom in Isa 34:6-11 It says Edom was to burn forever and never be quenched! But its NOT burning today and in fact in verse 11 it says it will be occupied again after this so called forever FIRE! The problem lies in English translations, and eternal and forever and ever, does not always mean endless in the Bible.

Is EDOM burning today? NO! English translation says forever, but the original language it doesn't say or mean forever as you can clearly see that the next verse says it will be occupied again. How is that possible if v10 was to be taken literally as eternal fire etc... Think about it!

In Isa 34:10 it says the smoke from the fire on Edom will rise forever and never be quenched! Is this smoke rising today? NO it is not as Edom is in ashes today!

7. Eternal hellfire stems from Devils first lie[Gen 3:4], then came pagan philosophy, Jewish apostasies, Catholicism then protestantism, and it's not biblical at all!

Suffice to say, in the Hebrew and Greek, Sheol[Hebrew] and Hades,Tartaroo and Gehenna[Greek] is a place of death, darkness & silence. In other words, the grave! But the English word "Hell" means an eternal burning place of agony! But in the original Hebrew/Greek, there is no such word as "hell".

Jesus talked about Gehenna and Gehenna was a literal rubbish dump, but English translators used the English word HELL for this, but in the Greek there is no such word as hell.

And when Jesus used the term "Gehenna", his hearers clearly understood it to be a rubbish dump, situated south/west of Jerusalem where refuse and the bodies of criminals were burnt. But English translators made it into HELL an English word that never exists in the original Greek.

Since rubbish and dead criminals and bodies were continuously added, the fires were perpetually flamed and kept alight. However, individual bodies did not burn endlessly, they became ashes! Eternal hellfire is ONLY taught in English translations, it is not taught in the original Hebrew and Greek manuscripts.

Not once did Jesus say a place will burn the lost forever! Certain people only get this understanding from the English Bible. Nowhere in the Hebrew or Greek manuscripts does it talk about an eternal hellfire!

And here is a question for everyone:

If you had a child and lets say your child stabbed you and nearly killed you and your child killed people and killed your dog and they was a very evil little kid and they were arrested, and you had ONLY 2 choices or options between putting them to sleep for ever or setting them alight and letting them burn in agony for ever if possible, which one would you choose?

You only have 2 options! Which one would you choose? Eternal sleep or eternal agony for your lost child? Imagine you had only these 2 options. Which would you choose? Could you stand back even for 2 minutes and watch your own lost child burn on fire in agony? y/n?

 

[westtexas]

Re: The Lord Loves You

So you failed in providing support for your claims, and this is how you respond.2

HAHAHAHA Man, you kill me. I've followed your posts with many on this forum and this is the only kind of an answer ANYONE receives. Have you got any theological or scriptural support for ANYTHING you quote?
I'd love to see a response to post 33. I'm betting lunch that you can't provide one.

Edited to add: I didn't see your last post. My apologies. I look forward to the new thread. I'm STILL betting lunch!!
Westtexas

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Re: The Lord Loves You

HAHAHAHA Man, you kill me. I've followed your posts with many on this forum and this is the only kind of an answer ANYONE receives. Have you got any theological or scriptural support for ANYTHING you quote?
I'd love to see a response to post 33. I'm betting lunch that you can't provide one.
Westtexas

I do indeed have a response, but to avoid hijacking the thread and avoid getting off topic, I created a new thread to address the verse you brought up and the topic.

 

[westtexas]

You didn't answer the question. Go back and read post 33 in "The Lord loves you" thread. I'll see if one of the mods can move it over here since you're afraid of hi-jacking that thread.
I'm still betting lunch that I get no response to my question.
Westtexas

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

You didn't answer the question. Go back and read post 33 in "The Lord loves you" thread. I'll see if one of the mods can move it over here since you're afraid of hi-jacking that thread.
I'm still betting lunch that I get no response to my question.
Westtexas

That old trick and strategy will not work on me2

I have addressed your verse and question in detail, yet just because you didn't like my answer and just because I didn't give you the answer you demanded and expected, you falsely claim I didn't respond to your question.

All eyes can see, the truth is clear.

 

[westtexas]

Re: The Lord Loves You

:shocked!YOU DON'T BELIEVE IN ETERNAL LIFE???:shocked!

"Kai apeleusontai outoi eis kolasin aionios oi de dikaioi eis ZOEN AIONIOS"-Matt.25:46 (Interlinear Bible)
"...........but the righteous into LIFE ETERNAL (zoen aionios)" Matt. 25:46 KJV

You have mentioned Matt 25:46. The verse is quoted above in both Greek and English. With your assurance that aionios "doesn't mean endless at all"- would you care to justify ETERNAL LIFE??

Westtexas

Thanks for the help mods!!!!!
Here is the question again. Show me where it has been answered, maybe I didn't see it.
Westtexas

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Re: The Lord Loves You

Thanks for the help mods!!!!!
Here is the question again. Show me where it has been answered, maybe I didn't see it.
Westtexas

I did address this already, but here goes again, using different words this time.

By the way, you indicated that I would not answer this, so it seems you were WRONG and got it in error. Who or what told you I won't answer the question?

Anyway, the Greek word for everlasting or eternal is the adjective "aionios" derived from the noun "aion" which means an "age" or "era". The word itself leaves the time limit of the age undefined. (Aion, Aionios) 42 times rendered "eternal" and 25 times "everlasting".

For example, the runaway slave "onesimus" (philemon 15) was to serve his master "for ever"(aionios). Now is he still serving his master today? Yes or No?

Aionios, translated as "eternal" and "forever" actually means an unspecific period of time. The period will vary according to context. In the following references the various words that appear are the same word for forever and eternal.

The KJV has on occasions translated the word as world. See Matt 28:20 where Jesus says, "I am with you even unto the end of the world." The word here is the same word translated elsewhere as eternal, forever. The NKJV has interestingly placed the following words, "the end of the age."

Here aionios refers to the period of time which we call earth's history. Hence the KJV translators have appropriately chosen "world" to signify the period of time allocated to earth's history. The NKJV has also correctly opted for "age" since it too refers to and means the same thing.

And may I say, in Heb 1:2 we have an interesting statement. It says that Jesus "made the worlds". The word "world" is not the normal word for world (cosmos) but aionios. The margin of the NKJV says that Jesus made all the "forevers", plural! Jesus made all periods of time belonging to everything in the universe. Hence the KJV has translated the word by use of the plural "worlds"! Aionios can refer to "forevers" in the past; "ordained before the world (forever, aionios)" KJV, "before the ages" (forever, aionios) NKJV; forevers in the present, " deliver us from this present evil world (forever, aionios) KJV, "this present evil age" NKJV; and forevers in the future, "in the ages (forevers) to come" KJV and NKJV. In all of these instances it is clear that "forever" means an age, the period being dependent on the context

So as I have said earlier, the Koine Greek word "aionios" is used in Matthew 25:46 and has been translated forever and ever! But in Koine Greek it doesn't mean endless at all!

And besides, only those who have faith in Jesus will receive immortality and access to the tree of life, hence they will live forever. Satan and the lost will be DENIED immortality as a gift and will be DENIED access to the Tree of Life.

But NOTE; this is not to say that the fires of Gehenna will not burn for a period of time. The Greek word for "eternal" and "forever" (aionios) denotes a period of time. If Strongs Concordance on the word "ever" is consulted, you will notice that the Greek word means "an age, a period". Under the word "aionios" in the Analyical Greek Lexicon p.11 we have the following words, "a period, era, age. . . indeterminate as to duration." The latter phrase is critical. "Forever" denotes periods of time which are indeterminate and unspecified as to beginning or end.

But as I said earlier, Satan and the lost will be DENIED immortality as a gift and will be DENIED access to the Tree of Life, hence, they will PERISH and not live or exist forever!

 

[n2thelight]

Eternal hell is very much a lie,here is a link to an excellent study for those who care to learn the truth...........

Dispelling the myth of eternal torment biblically

Excerpt

CHAPTER ONE

​

ETERNAL DAMNATION:

What does the Bible Really Teach?​

​

Traditionally, the most prominent view regarding eternal damnation is that the people cast into hell – the lake of fire – will suffer fiery conscious torments forever and ever. Depicting the horrors of this belief was a favorite subject amongst artists in medieval times, resulting in all manner of imaginative and ghastly portraits of people suffering unending agony. Some have since tried to modify this position a bit, suggesting a more metaphorical view, that the unending pain experienced probably refers to the mental anguish of eternal loss and “separation from God;†but it makes no significant difference as both views involve the notion of eternal torment.

This may indeed be the traditionally prominent view regarding human damnation, but is it biblical? That is, do the Judeo-Christian scriptures really teach it? Will the multitudes of people who reject God, and hence are rejected by God, really be subjected to never-ending conscious misery – with no merciful pause to their agony?
One might contend that it is heretical to even question such a long-standing, widely accepted Christian teaching, but if this doctrine is truly scriptural then its proponents have nothing to worry about. Furthermore, it is only proper that all doctrines, no matter how traditional or popular, be questioned in light of what the bible clearly teaches, for it is the God-breathed scriptures alone which we must look to for truth, not popularity or religious tradition. This is the theological principle of sola scriptura, Latin for “by scripture alone,†which maintains that the bible is the final authority regarding all judgments of Christian doctrine and practice.

Because of this sound principle many traditional doctrines and practices have proven to be false over the years and have properly been discarded. Needless to say it’s a very positive thing for Christians to periodically reevaluate their beliefs and practices because it helps prevent Christendom from straying from the biblical model. Since reevaluating official church teachings is very much a part of the Christian heritage, and is indeed a healthy practice, there should be no problem presently in simply entertaining the possibility that tradition may be in error regarding this belief of perpetual conscious torment.

 

[TruthSeeker2012]

Eternal hell is very much a lie,here is a link to an excellent study for those who care to learn the truth...........

Dispelling the myth of eternal torment biblically

Excerpt

CHAPTER ONE
ETERNAL DAMNATION:

What does the Bible Really Teach?​

Traditionally, the most prominent view regarding eternal damnation is that the people cast into hell – the lake of fire – will suffer fiery conscious torments forever and ever. Depicting the horrors of this belief was a favorite subject amongst artists in medieval times, resulting in all manner of imaginative and ghastly portraits of people suffering unending agony. Some have since tried to modify this position a bit, suggesting a more metaphorical view, that the unending pain experienced probably refers to the mental anguish of eternal loss and “separation from God;” but it makes no significant difference as both views involve the notion of eternal torment.

This may indeed be the traditionally prominent view regarding human damnation, but is it biblical? That is, do the Judeo-Christian scriptures really teach it? Will the multitudes of people who reject God, and hence are rejected by God, really be subjected to never-ending conscious misery – with no merciful pause to their agony?
One might contend that it is heretical to even question such a long-standing, widely accepted Christian teaching, but if this doctrine is truly scriptural then its proponents have nothing to worry about. Furthermore, it is only proper that all doctrines, no matter how traditional or popular, be questioned in light of what the bible clearly teaches, for it is the God-breathed scriptures alone which we must look to for truth, not popularity or religious tradition. This is the theological principle of sola scriptura, Latin for “by scripture alone,” which maintains that the bible is the final authority regarding all judgments of Christian doctrine and practice.

Because of this sound principle many traditional doctrines and practices have proven to be false over the years and have properly been discarded. Needless to say it’s a very positive thing for Christians to periodically reevaluate their beliefs and practices because it helps prevent Christendom from straying from the biblical model. Since reevaluating official church teachings is very much a part of the Christian heritage, and is indeed a healthy practice, there should be no problem presently in simply entertaining the possibility that tradition may be in error regarding this belief of perpetual conscious torment.

Thank you n2thelight. Good link and it says, "This study concludes that the doctrine of eternal conscious torture is a sadistic teaching completely foreign to the bible."

And I like the question "but is it biblical?".

It reminds me of people praying with their eyes closed. I then asked my Pastor when I was a baby Christian, "but is it biblical?" To this he answered, No, it's not biblical and just a tradition, yet many people believe it's biblical.

It's important to question what you have been taught, and always ask, "but is it biblical?"

I know it shocked me when I began reading and studying the Bible for myself that "eternal hellfire" was a lie and not biblical because I had been brought up to believe it was taught in Bible, and when I learned it wasn't, I was rather shocked to tell you the truth.

But thank goodness it's not biblical, because if it was, then God is nothing more than a sadistic and revengeful monster that I could never love.

It breaks my heart to see so many Christian falsely accuse God of torturing the lost forever.

 

[Rageprophet]

I know it shocked me when I began reading and studying the Bible for myself that "eternal hellfire" was a lie and not biblical because I had been brought up to believe it was taught in Bible, and when I learned it wasn't, I was rather shocked to tell you the truth.

You mean when the other Jehova's Witnesses told you that right?