The Father is superior to Jesus

[shad]

John 17:3 (New International Version)
3Now this is eternal life: that they may know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent.

This is self-explanatory too.

God the Father who is the true God, and then Jesus whom God the Father sent.

You didn't answer the question from pg. 1 Shad. What do think Jesus was speaking of 2 verses after this one when He asked the Father to glorify him as He was before creation?

Westtexas

I already explained it too.

 

[shad]

The Father is "superior" to Jesus IN CERTAIN WAYS.

Is Jesus superior to His God in certain ways???? Where does it say this?

 

[shad]

Jesus is the Living Word of Jehovah God. He is the Only Begotten Son Of Our Heavenly Father. To Deni who Christ is is to Deni our very salvation through the Lamb. Those who Deni Jesus is the Only Begotten Son are Antichrist. God sent His Word not Himself. For Jehovah God is Eternal and cannot be tempted by Evil. In his grace and infallible truth he Sent His Very Word and made it Flesh. This is the messenger and the Lamb Of God (Christ Jesus) Through the Only Begotten we can Have Salvation. Jehovah is the Redeemer but Christ Jesus is the Way.

Hebrews 1:1-3

In the past God spoke to our forefathers through the prophets at many times and in various ways, 2 but in these last days he has spoken to us by his Son, whom he appointed heir of all things, and through whom he made the universe. 3 The Son is the radiance of God's glory and the exact representation of his being, sustaining all things by his powerful word. After he had provided purification for sins, he sat down at the right hand of the Majesty in heaven.

What's your point, This thread is about Jesus' Father superior to Jesus.

 

[shad]

Elijah,

I dont understand your posts. So I cannot reply to yours. I am sorry.

 

[Packrat]

Acts 7:59--And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, recieve my spirit.

I thought we were only supposed to pray to the Father. I guess Stephen wasn't made aware of this. But then there's this verse - John 14:14. That seems like Christ is saying to pray to him in his name. Here's another - John 15:16. How could these passages both be true if Jesus were not God? Maybe you believe we're supposed to pray to God and to a man?

So we have Jesus saying that we can pray to him in his name and he will give us what we ask for. Then we have him saying we can pray to the Father in his name and the Father will give us what we ask for. On top of that we have Jesus later saying that a time would come when we wouldn't ask Jesus for anything but would pray to the Father in his name (John 16:23). This happens all in the space of one night. So we have a few days in which John 14:14 is applicable, including the time when Jesus was dead in the tomb, and then it stops being applicable and we're to stop praying to Jesus but rather to the Father?

How would Jesus answer our prayers if he was a human and was dead in the tomb? Because the only time constraint given to John 14:14 was when the disciples of Jesus began to rejoice. They weren't rejoicing when Jesus was in the tomb, were they? So they could still pray to Jesus (when he was dead) and this dead man would grant their prayers apparently... but I thought we weren't supposed to pray to the dead? Unless you believed that just as Jesus became flesh he would also rejoin his Father (but hadn't yet; i.e. the time had not yet come) so that any prayer to the Father would be a prayer to him then these Bible passages become much more problematic. Is it weird that Jesus is God and intercedes to God for us? The Holy Spirit is God and intercedes to God for us.

Jesus was sent by His Father with authority to do miracles and He did. He was sent to be the Lamb, why this does not comfort you. Can you be a sinless, miracle worker, and the Lamb for all of us?

I'm not saying that his work here on earth doesn't comfort me. I'm saying that the disciples were sad that he was leaving them, but he comforted them by saying that the Father was greater. How would this be a comfort? Jesus qualifies the statement with "If you loved me [...]" So if they loved Jesus they would be comforted that Jesus was going to the Father. Why? The Father was greater than Jesus. Why would this comfort them? Because they loved Jesus and would know that Jesus was sharing in God's glory once again.

John 14:26 also has God the Father sending the Holy Spirit. John 16:13 has the Holy Spirit speaking only what he hears from God just as Jesus was only able to do whatever he saw God doing (John 5:19). So now you have me believing that we were instructed to pray to a dead man and that the Holy Spirit is not God. You have also made the God-ordained union of marriage into an adulterous act because if one has a human husband on this earth they also have a human husband in the Messiah at the same time and a husband in God. Or maybe this is evidence that the Bible supports multiple husbands and homosexual unions.

 

[shad]

Acts 7:59 (New International Version)
59While they were stoning him, Stephen prayed, "Lord Jesus, receive my spirit."
I thought we were only supposed to pray to the Father. I guess Stephen wasn't made aware of this.

Jesus is the one who will judge us when the time comes so nothing is wrong with asking Jesus to receive our spirit.

But then there's this verse - John 14:14. That seems like Christ is saying to pray to him in his name. Here's another - John 15:16. How could these passages both be true if Jesus were not God? Maybe you believe we're supposed to pray to God and to a man?

The same as the above. Jesus is not a man any more. He is sitting at right hand of almighty God. He has power and authority to forgive our sins and judge us. The Authority is given by His Father.

 

[shad]

So we have Jesus saying that we can pray to him in his name and he will give us what we ask for. Then we have him saying we can pray to the Father in his name and the Father will give us what we ask for. On top of that we have Jesus later saying that a time would come when we wouldn't ask Jesus for anything but would pray to the Father in his name (John 16:23).

The same as the above. Have you ever seen the Father praying to Jesus? They're supposed to be equal according to you.

This happens all in the space of one night. So we have a few days in which John 14:14 is applicable, including the time when Jesus was dead in the tomb, and then it stops being applicable and we're to stop praying to Jesus but rather to the Father?

When we ask about our spirit and forgiveness we can pray to Jesus since He is the one will judge us. This is contextual reasoning. Jesus was our example and always prayed to His Father.

I'm not saying that his work here on earth doesn't comfort me. I'm saying that the disciples were sad that he was leaving them, but he comforted them by saying that the Father was greater. How would this be a comfort? Jesus qualifies the statement with "If you loved me [...]" So if they loved Jesus they would be comforted that Jesus was going to the Father. Why? The Father was greater than Jesus. Why would this comfort them? Because they loved Jesus and would know that Jesus was sharing in God's glory once again.

If you are not comforted by Jesus being with His almighty Father and Him going to give us wonderful future, I dont know what to tell you.

John 14:26 also has God the Father sending the Holy Spirit. John 16:13 has the Holy Spirit speaking only what he hears from God just as Jesus was only able to do whatever he saw God doing (John 5:19).

Contextual reasoning of the Holy Spirit is that He is helper of Father and Jesus. Everything makes sense at that point.

 

[Sinthesis]

Yes, Jesus was an angel and the angels are much more powerful than human.

You need to take another look at Hebrews 1.

• Hbr 1:3 - Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
  Hbr 1:4 - Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
  Hbr 1:5 ¶ For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
  Hbr 1:6 - And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

 

[Elijah674]

Elijah,

I dont understand your posts. So I cannot reply to yours. I am sorry.

Elijah here. 'i' have a couple points that you might understand? First off your post are wrong as I see it. The DOCTRINE OF CHRIST IS CHRIST ETERNAL! John 2:9 comes from Rom. 8:1 of being JUSTIFIED & then verse 14 of being LED into all truth. (If one can be?) And you are still seen by my understanding in Heb. 5's milk/fed stage.

Now: I could be wrong?? Perhaps it is 'me' huh? And if that IS TRUE, this verse would be me in.. 2 Peter 3:16 with the inclusion of '.. which they that are unlearned and unstable wrest, [AS THEY DO ALSO OTHER SCRIPTURE]..'
We all grow at different speeds, so give me time, huh?? But let me say that my learning is not the Jer. 17:5 way. And there are four special verses that mean what they say, especially to me. 'Jesus Christ (not Jesus Christ The Son Of God!) the Same Yesterday, today, [AND FOREVER]' (again, only the Godhead has IMMORTALITY! and mankind + angels were ALL CREATED!) Think what EVERLASTING MEANT!

Another verse is where we as individuals teach & 'preach?' something that we say [IS THE WAY THAT IT IS]. I am doing so at most times. And your posts are doing the same it appears?? Think of your Post Threads Heading of THE FATHER IS SUPERIOR TO JESUS?? 'i' would NEVER SAY SUCH A THING even if wrongly thought that there might be a 'hint' of truth in that.

WHY?? OK: In Rev. 22:18-19 we see about the same WORDS of the entire Book from Eccl. 3:14 + Exod. 32:33 for HOW LONG THE ONLY ONES WHO HAVE IMMORTALITY [DOCUMENT] the creation who [BOTCH UP THEIR ETERNAL WORDS WILL BE AROUND.] (me or you.. one of us are way off, huh? Even read Titus 3:9-11??)

Eccl. 3:14 'I KNOW that WHATSOEVER GOD DOETH (SAYETH??) [IT SHALL BE FOREVER: NOTHING CAN BE PUT TO IT, NOR ANYTHING BE TAKEN FROM IT: AND GOD DOETH IT]..' (and who is the THEME of this ETERNAL GOSPEL, but CHRIST! There is NO way for this Eternal Gospel with/out the Immortal Christ/God)

And the WARNING of Rev. 22:18-19 again reminds us of stating false facts or the adding of such stuff as Truth! It even Documents that the name of such will 'have 'God take away his part out of the book of life'.

Another verse comes from Exodus 32:33 with the Lord (Christ/God) documenting.. 'And the LORD SAID unto Moses. Whosoever [HATH SINNED AGAINST ME, HIM WILL I BLOTT OUT OF MY BOOK].'

Regardless, if 'i' over or under posted Christ's Words?? these verses all are special for me as a Born Again person! And I would rather be on the side of error & not knowing it, with the Godhead teaching, than [posting] (teaching) as you are at present.

--Elijah

 

[shad]

Yes, Jesus was an angel and the angels are much more powerful than human.

You need to take another look at Hebrews 1.

• Hbr 1:3 - Who being the brightness of [his] glory, and the express image of his person, and upholding all things by the word of his power, when he had by himself purged our sins, sat down on the right hand of the Majesty on high;
  Hbr 1:4 - Being made so much better than the angels, as he hath by inheritance obtained a more excellent name than they.
  Hbr 1:5 ¶ For unto which of the angels said he at any time, Thou art my Son, this day have I begotten thee? And again, I will be to him a Father, and he shall be to me a Son?
  Hbr 1:6 - And again, when he bringeth in the firstbegotten into the world, he saith, And let all the angels of God worship him.

what's your point?

 

[Drew]

what's your point?

I suspect his (her) point is that the Hebrews text clearly rules out the possibility that Jesus is an angel, a position to which you apparently subscribe:

Yes, Jesus was an angel....

 

[shad]

I suspect his (her) point is that the Hebrews text clearly rules out the possibility that Jesus is an angel, a position to which you apparently subscribe:

How so?

 

[dadof10]

The Father is "superior" to Jesus IN CERTAIN WAYS.

Is Jesus superior to His God in certain ways???? Where does it say this?

It doesn't, and NO ONE HERE HAS SAID THAT, INCLUDING ME. Jesus is EQUAL to God, yet He deferred this equality to take on flesh for our salvation. Why can't you deal with the specifics of the Trinity instead of trying to draw a caricature and play word games?

 

[dadof10]

Yes, Jesus was an angel...

Scripture please...

 

[dadof10]

I suggest that it is quite telling that the non-trinitarians have ignored my argument. Why do you think that is?

Because it's too deep and they are too busy playing the "superior/inferior GOTCHA" game.

 

[shad]

Jesus is EQUAL to God, yet He deferred this equality to take on flesh for our salvation. Why can't you deal with the specifics of the Trinity instead of trying to draw a caricature and play word games?

Scripture does not say Jesus is equal to God; you are making it up. Jesus' word is against what you are saying. And you saying this is a word game? Jesus' word is a game to you?

Jesus says clearly His Father is greater than He. And the rest of my verses confirm it.

 

[shad]

Scripture please...

Ok, I cannot find the Scripture but Jesus was created by God. He was a spirit being. I commented hastily.

Still, I can say this confidently; Jesus was was created by His Father. He is the only one God directly created. God gave Jesus authority to create everything else. So stop harping about it because of my hasty words. I admit it.

And I showed you my verse to prove it too.

If you continue this kind of nonsense one more time, you will be ignored without any reply. This is my warning to you. I gave you the benefit of the doubt but you still continue on with belittling and sarcastic remarks. And you insinuate that you are scholastic.

Because it's too deep and they are too busy playing the "superior/inferior GOTCHA" game.

Above is your comment and it is belittling and sarcastic remark.

 

[westtexas]

Acts 7:59--And they stoned Stephen, calling upon God, and saying, Lord Jesus, recieve my spirit. (KJV)

You added Calling upon God. shame on you.

I added and shame on me?!?!?!?! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA
Do you even bother to look anything up before you respond?????

Acts 7:59--And they stoned Stephen, CALLING UPON GOD,and saying, Lord Jesus, recieve my spirit. (KJV) Caps are mine

Once again, this was your verse you said you would explain to Warrior. If Stephen was calling upon God, why did he say "Lord Jesus"?

Westtexas

 

[westtexas]

Still, I can say this confidently; Jesus was was created by His Father.

Have you got scripture for this one Shad? Does it end with NWT?

Westtexas

 

[Elijah674]

I suggest that it is quite telling that the non-trinitarians have ignored my argument. Why do you think that is?

Because it's too deep and they are too busy playing the "superior/inferior GOTCHA" game.

And how is [your post] knowing this??? Do you think that all believers are mature in knowledge at present? (Heb. 5) Are there not the Rev. 17:1-5 documented ones who agree on nothing much?

Can any see what is anothers MOTIVES + maturity? I agree the teaching for truth of any falsehood is dangerous, and that this one subject would best be hands off in particular, unless one has already passed the boundaries of Heb. 6:6. (then it would not matter for theirselves regardless ) or know that they are 'settled in the faith. And personally for me, these postings per/subject are seen as very dangerous if that is what you are saying? (not personal but POST MATERIAL)

--Elijah