The final anti-Christ

[Heidi]

The propensity for human beings to agree with the majority is enormous. And that's why it is increasingly important for we Christians to believe every word in the bible. Jesus said that the faith of most will grow cold so it is even more important that we stand firm in the word of God, and not be deceived by the false teachings of men which are more numerous all the time.

But those who exchange Word of God for the worldly beliefs of the time, and look to people as their teachers instead of Christ, will be in danger of being deceived by the anti-Christ. Satan's greatest weapon is scripture which he distorts for his own purposes. Therefore our interpretations must not contradict any scripture or they will be false. We have one teacher and that is the Christ. And since Christ is the Holy Spirit that resides in His sheep, and also the same Spirit with which the bible was written, then the bible is our one teacher. We therefore, need to stand firm in the Word of God so that we will not be deceived by the anti-Christ.

 

[irishrain]

Deception and anti-Christ

But those who exchange Word of God for the worldly beliefs of the time, and look to people as their teachers instead of Christ, will be in danger of being deceived by the anti-Christ. Satan's greatest weapon is scripture which he distorts for his own purposes.

Very Well said, Satan uses pulpits more then anyother means. Deception is his MO.


Mat 24:4 And Jesus answered and said unto them, Take heed that no man deceive you.

Mat 24:5 For many shall come in my name, saying, I am Christ; and shall deceive many.
They say there christians

Mat 24:11 And many false prophets shall rise, and shall deceive many.

Mat 24:12 And because iniquity shall abound, the love of many shall wax cold.

Mat 24:23 Then if any man shall say unto you, Lo, here is Christ, or there; believe it not.

Mat 24:24 For there shall arise false Christs, and false prophets, and shall shew great signs and wonders; insomuch that, if it were possible, they shall deceive the very elect.
How do they deceive?

Rev 13:13 And he doeth great wonders, so that he maketh fire come down from heaven on the earth in the sight of men,

Rev 13:14 And deceiveth them that dwell on the earth by the means of those miracles which he had power to do in the sight of the beast; saying to them that dwell on the earth, that they should make an image to the beast, which had the wound by a sword, and did live.

If your still in your flesh body and some dude claims to be christ. Just pinch yourself. Because the true Jesus doesn't come back till the 7th trumpet. For there are two morning stars, one is a fake. Do most people know that there are two Jesus?

1Cr 15:51 Behold, I shew you a mystery; We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed,
Thats changed from flesh body to our spiritual body at the 7th trumpet.

1Cr 15:52 In a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trump: for the trumpet shall sound, and the dead shall be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed.
The last trumph, there are only seven.

Rev 19:11 And I saw heaven opened, and behold a white horse; and he that sat upon him was called Faithful and True, and in righteousness he doth judge and make war.

Rev 19:12 His eyes were as a flame of fire, and on his head were many crowns; and he had a name written, that no man knew, but he himself.

Rev 19:13 And he was clothed with a vesture dipped in blood: and his name is called The Word of God.

 

[Horseman42]

The propensity for human beings to agree with the majority is enormous. And that's why it is increasingly important for we Christians to believe every word in the bible.

I don't mean to burst your bubble, but it's almost impossible to believe every single word of the bible. It's riddled with contradictions and fallacies. Not saying it isn't a good book. A lot of wisdom can be gleamed from reading it.

Not only that I'm little unsure which bible you are refering to? KJV or NASB or perhaps the mormon bible is what you are refering to?

 

[BradtheImpaler]

The propensity for human beings to agree with the majority is enormous. And that's why it is increasingly important for we Christians to believe every word in the bible. Jesus said that the faith of most will grow cold so it is even more important that we stand firm in the word of God, and not be deceived by the false teachings of men which are more numerous all the time.

But those who exchange Word of God for the worldly beliefs of the time, and look to people as their teachers instead of Christ, will be in danger of being deceived by the anti-Christ. Satan's greatest weapon is scripture which he distorts for his own purposes. Therefore our interpretations must not contradict any scripture or they will be false. We have one teacher and that is the Christ. And since Christ is the Holy Spirit that resides in His sheep, and also the same Spirit with which the bible was written, then the bible is our one teacher. We therefore, need to stand firm in the Word of God so that we will not be deceived by the anti-Christ.

If what you say is true, then you (Christians) on the whole, are already hopelessly deceived because you cannot agree on a multitude of doctrines, which would not be the case if you all had "one teacher".

Furthermore, it is useless to appeal that "our interpretations must not contradict any scripture" since there is no such thing as appropriating scripture (or anything for that matter) apart from "interpretation". Whatever you believe any certain scripture is saying is your interpretation of that scripture. Every believer says what you are saying here - but all it boils down to is "any interpretation other than mine and the church I belong to, concerning that scripture, IS contradicting that scripture".

 

[Geo]

Whatever you believe any certain scripture is saying is your interpretation of that scripture.

Not if I ignore what other people do according to your presumption
and read and believe scripture literally.

 

[Heidi]

The propensity for human beings to agree with the majority is enormous. And that's why it is increasingly important for we Christians to believe every word in the bible.

I don't mean to burst your bubble, but it's almost impossible to believe every single word of the bible. It's riddled with contradictions and fallacies. Not saying it isn't a good book. A lot of wisdom can be gleamed from reading it.

Not only that I'm little unsure which bible you are refering to? KJV or NASB or perhaps the mormon bible is what you are refering to?

That's because you're trying to understand the bible through human wisdom rather than spiritual wisdom. Human wisdom is fallible and limited to each person's experiences in life. It therefore is not capable of seeing the bigger picture. But once you receive the Holy Spirit, you will see how every single word in the bible has a meaning and a purpose and it can be related to all future words in the bible. One could spend his whole life studying the bible and still not see all the correlations between the Old and new testaments.

 

[Horseman42]

That's because you're trying to understand the bible through human wisdom rather than spiritual wisdom. Human wisdom is fallible and limited to each person's experiences in life. It therefore is not capable of seeing the bigger picture.

This is utter non-sense. But I'll bite. Please tell me the difference between human wisdom and spirtual wisdom, and how you know that there are two types.

But once you receive the Holy Spirit, you will see how every single word in the bible has a meaning and a purpose and it can be related to all future words in the bible. One could spend his whole life studying the bible and still not see all the correlations between the Old and new testaments.

Been there done that. The bible is a good book, but it's just a book. There's a lot of wisdom hidden between it's pages. However there are times where it's riddled with illogical nonsense such as Joshua 10:12-14 for example. It's impossible to take these verses litterally.

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[BradtheImpaler]

Whatever you believe any certain scripture is saying is your interpretation of that scripture.

Not if I ignore what other people do according to your presumption
and read and believe scripture literally.

To interpret means - "To explain the meaning of"

When you "believe scripture literally" you are still interpreting it - you are interpreting what you believe the literal meaning is. Search almost any thread on this forum and you will find Christians who all claim they are believing a scripture or passage literally yet will argue with each other over what that literal meaning is. What they each actually have is an interpretation.

 

[BradtheImpaler]

That's because you're trying to understand the bible through human wisdom rather than spiritual wisdom

What if (for example) an evolutionist told you that the reason evolution doesn't make sense to you is because you are using "human wisdom" to evaluate it, and that, if you would only receive the "hyper-scientific Spirit" of wisdom it would all be clear to you? Oh, and in order to receive this "hyper-scientific Spirit" you had to accept evolution in the first place?

Tell the truth - you'd think it was a "crock", wouldn't you?

 

[Free]

Horseman42,

And just what is illogical and nonsensical about that passage in Joshua?

 

[Horseman42]

12Then spake Joshua to the LORD in the day when the LORD delivered up the Amorites before the children of Israel, and he said in the sight of Israel, Sun, stand thou still upon Gibeon; and thou, Moon, in the valley of Ajalon.

13And the sun stood still, and the moon stayed, until the people had avenged themselves upon their enemies. Is not this written in the book of Jasher? So the sun stood still in the midst of heaven, and hasted not to go down about a whole day.

14And there was no day like that before it or after it, that the LORD hearkened unto the voice of a man: for the LORD fought for Israel.

Problem is if you take Joshua 10:12-14 litterally it states the sun stood still, and it caused there to be an extra day. Everyone knows these days the Earthly day and night is caused by the Earth travelling around the sun. The sun ALWAYS stands still in the sky.

Of course this is litterly what it says. One can argue this is passage came about from what people thought of the universe back 2000-3000 years ago, but that would not be a litteral translation.

Even if they did mean that god halted the Earth from spinning around the sun it would open up another huge host of problems. Fact is it could not have happened.

 

[DivineNames]

Even if they did mean that god halted the Earth from spinning around the sun it would open up another huge host of problems. Fact is it could not have happened.

I'm interested in what "problems" you are thinking of?

 

[DivineNames]

Everyone knows these days the Earthly day and night is caused by the Earth travelling around the sun. The sun ALWAYS stands still in the sky.

Day and night are caused by Earth spinning on its axis. Not by Earth, "travelling around the sun", or, "spinning around the sun".

 

[Drew]

Even if they did mean that god halted the Earth from spinning around the sun it would open up another huge host of problems. Fact is it could not have happened.

I'm interested in what "problems" you are thinking of?

My intent is not to speak for Horseman42, but I would like to add some thoughts. A key questions is "how miraculous" such events truly are. Consider 2 cases - the first being "less miraculous" than the second:

Case 1: God applies some "force" that slowly overcomes the earth's rotational inertia and brings it to a "stop" slowly enough to not cause everything to "go flying" - if the Earth were to instantaneously stop spinning (without a gradual slowdown), I would be violently propelled through the wall of my house at several hundred kilometres per hour to my almost certain demise. Absolute chaos and destruction would result. After God's purposes are then achieved, He slowly accelerates the Earth back to its usual rotational speed.

Case 2: God instantly stops the Earth and also somehow suspends the normal laws of physics so that we are not all violently killed as we fly through walls and into buildings / trees, etc. While this is perhaps conceivably possible for God to do, He would need to really tinker with a lot of natural processes.

In case 1, God temporarly "adds" a new force to the universe for his purposes, but does not suspend other laws. In case 2, God has to dramatically suspends a whole bunch of fundamental laws. These considerations bring another issue to light: If God does indeed do these things, can He "tie up all the loose ends" in such a manner that the "normal" world can resume operations. I am not sure what this means in the particular case of slowing the world down.

 

[Wertbag]

But once you receive the Holy Spirit, you will see how every single word in the bible has a meaning and a purpose and it can be related to all future words in the bible.

If this was the case why do we not see agreement between Christians, churches or religions? If all Chrisitians are guided by the same holy spirit then all would come to the same conclusions.

 

[Geo]

Brad, not doubting your perception, it is not compulsory though.
It only works if you accept reality on the basis that words can no longer
held captive to their ordinary definitions.

Heidi's explanation is correct in absolute terms, although you are
kept from seing its reality. The bible contains several layers of (the same) truth
and none of them is opened to us by our own understanding. We need to be
enabled to even try to grasp its reality. The only 'interpretation' that happens
is 'enabling' from Holy Spirit side and it is based on the ordinary definition of the word.

"Why do we not see agreement between Christians?" good question, it's because
we live in the final days, in the days of APOSTASY. Apostasy is signified by the
irritation that every truth is "subject to interpretation" so that every man can claim
the right to design his own universe and also to change it at his own convenience.

 

[DivineNames]

"Why do we not see agreement between Christians?" good question, it's because we live in the final days, in the days of APOSTASY. Apostasy is signified by the irritation that every truth is "subject to interpretation" so that every man can claim the right to design his own universe and also to change it at his own convenience.

There has never been agreement between Christians. Just consider the controversies over the nature of Jesus, Arianism etc.

 

[BradtheImpaler]

Brad, not doubting your perception, it is not compulsory though.
It only works if you accept reality on the basis that words can no longer
held captive to their ordinary definitions

I'm not sure what exact point this is in response to, or exactly what you are saying? :-?

Heidi's explanation is correct in absolute terms, although you are
kept from seing its reality. The bible contains several layers of (the same) truth
and none of them is opened to us by our own understanding. We need to be
enabled to even try to grasp its reality. The only 'interpretation' that happens
is 'enabling' from Holy Spirit side and it is based on the ordinary definition of the word

Just what I pointed out - in order to gain this esoteric understanding of the bible, we are told we have to believe it first. If you switch this tactic around and imagine skeptics saying you will only understand why the bible is not true if you believe it is not true to begin with, you will see how ridiculous such a proposition is. (Of course, skeptics do not make this contension, rather, one should honestly evaluate the bible's claims without a previous bias)

"Why do we not see agreement between Christians?" good question, it's because
we live in the final days, in the days of APOSTASY. Apostasy is signified by the
irritation that every truth is "subject to interpretation" so that every man can claim
the right to design his own universe and also to change it at his own convenience.

This is typical Christian apologetic reasoning based on a proposition whereby no matter what the situation, the claims of Christianity are not allowed to be challenged. Because Christian "oneness" is a sham, disunity is accorded to the fulfillment of prophecy and/or a temporary period of waywardness. But if Christians were "one", visibly and in truth, you guys would be shouting from the rooftops that this was proof of the existence of an invisible, unifying Spirit within the church. So whether you are in unity or not, you would argue that it is evidence that the bible and Christianity is true. Your whole apologetic system is "rigged".

You're trying to play -

"Heads I win, tails you lose"

 

[BradtheImpaler]

But once you receive the Holy Spirit, you will see how every single word in the bible has a meaning and a purpose and it can be related to all future words in the bible.

If this was the case why do we not see agreement between Christians, churches or religions? If all Chrisitians are guided by the same holy spirit then all would come to the same conclusions.

Thank you, Wertbag. This truth is like not seeing the "nose on our faces" - the most obvious evidence against Christianity is that Jesus' prayer in John 17, that Christians would be one even as Jesus and the Father are one (I don't suppose Jesus and the Father are in doctrinal disagreement?) has not come to pass, in fact, the situation's getting worse all the time. The vehement (and oftentimes, downright nasty) argumentation between Christians on dozens of essential doctrines on this forum and many others has only convinced me more and more that there is no real common Spirit involved there. (that is, some supernatural Spirit that is leading and guiding Christians into "all truth") There is a spirit (small "s") of comraderie based on several of the most fundamental doctrines, but no greater amount of "oneness" than can be naturally attributed to any religious group which Christians would claim did not possess the Spirit.

 

[Horseman42]

Day and night are caused by Earth spinning on its axis. Not by Earth, "travelling around the sun", or, "spinning around the sun".

Thank you. You are right my mistake. The Earth spinning around the Sun causes the seasons, not night and day. The Earth spinning on it's axis causes night and day.

However both are contrary to what the bible says![/i]