[__ Science __ ] The First Lie

[AIG.com]

An updated classic that dismantles the foundational attack against biblical authority.

Continue reading...

 

[Barbarian]

At least it's honestly labeled. Truth is, God doesn't actually care if Ken Ham hates evolution. He does care if Ken lies about it. Maybe he doesn't really know what evolution is; maybe he does and pretends otherwise. Hard to say, but the effect is the same.

And it's a shame. YE creationists are no less Christian than the rest of us, so long as they don't start worshiping their new doctrines to the detriment of their relationship with God.

 

[KV-44-v1]

In 2019, the website of BioLogos, the organization that actively tries to get churches and Christian institutions to believe in evolution and millions of years, stated,“We’re thrilled to announce the release of an important new book, Understanding Scientific Theories of Origins: Cosmology, Geology, and Biology in Christian Perspective. This book—a textbook—was written by five Wheaton College professors. [It is] the fruit of a 3-year grant they received from BioLogos in 2013.”Now the professors who wrote this book promote evolution and millions of years (and local flood instead of Noah’s global event), demonstrated by saying, “Although some Christians have argued that the fall utterly disrupted some kind of original perfection of creation, there is no evidence from either the Bible or the creation, making that a foregone conclusion.”At Answers in Genesis and in the Ark Encounter and Creation Museum exhibits, we [know] the opposite of this statement. AiG [admits] that the fall utterly disrupted the original perfection, and we show directly from Scripture that we now live in a groaning world because of sin.“For we know that the whole creation has been groaning together in the pains of childbirth until now.”(Romans 8:22)So why do these Wheaton College professors claim the fall did not disrupt “some kind of original perfection of creation”? Well, to put it simply, because they believe in millions of years! Instead of starting with God’s Word, they’re starting with man’s word and adding it into the Bible. They do eisegesis not exegesis.

x.com/aigkenham/status/1841816297811607717?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw

 

[KV-44-v1]

Could God have used evolution and millions of years to create?
No, God could not use evolution and millions of years [without going against His character]. To [cobble things together with chance and time] would go against His character. In fact, I would claim that for those Christians who believe in evolution and millions of years, they are condoning a process that is a direct attack on God’s character. The attributes of God (all loving, all merciful, etc.) are part of what “good” means. When God stepped into history in the Person of His Son, He healed people of diseases. He had compassion upon the sick. He raised people from the dead. After all, God’s Word describes death as an “enemy” (1 Corinthians 15:26).Now today we live in a world of death, disease and suffering. This is described in Romans 8:22 as a groaning world because of our sin. God didn’t create the world this way because after He finished creating He said everything was “very good” (Genesis 1:31). Our sin messed up this “very good” world resulting in death (which is an enemy, an intrusion), disease, and suffering.Now evolution involves a process of death, violence, disease and suffering over millions of years to supposedly produce all life including humans. The fossil record, which is supposedly a record of the evolution of life over millions of years, is replete with remains of all sorts of animals, with many bones showing evidence of diseases like cancer, abscesses, arthritis, and more.Now for those Christians who take man’s ideas of evolution and millions of years (which is really a pagan religion to try to explain life without God--naturalism) and add it into the Bible, they are saying all these supposed millions of years of death and disease existed before man. Now after God created everything including man, he said everything he made was “very good.” In other words, for the Christian who believes in millions of years, they have to then [believe] God is calling diseases like cancer and violence “very good.” That is an attack on the character of God. Instead of trying to add evolution into the Bible, we need to start with God’s Word. No, God could not, would not and did not use evolution/millions of years as part of His creative processes.

x.com/aigkenham/status/1842171399986724933?ref_src=twsrc%5Etfw
At least the YEC truth is from the Bible. You admit there were YEC's before SDA's repeated a Biblical truth, so the premise they "iNvEnTeD" it FALLS APART. There is no reason to think they (or any man) invented it. If i say "Jesus was born around 2,000 years ago", am i inventing something or accepting truth? I'll leave that for you to decide.
Man invented dating methods and blindly believe they are right without checking what the Bible says. Hmmm whose the reeal inventor now.

 

[KV-44-v1]

At least it's honestly labeled. Truth is, God doesn't actually care if Ken Ham hates evolution.

Would you also hate the belief that God created His creation with death and chance being His methods? Why not create instantly? He's Omniscient and Omnipotent so there's no need to play around with cobbling stuff together. Sounds like the K2KE version of God is a man who struggles to figure things out and has to work slowly, and doesn't already know the best choice to make, and doesn't have the power to just create instantly. Or mabye K2KE implies that God's 'evil' and chose to create cruelly. God seems flawed in K2KE worldview because it was made by flawed men. Pagans. Pagans before darwin.
But in the Biblical view, God can just get straight to it. No pain no death. Very good.
Fun fact, God creating in 'bursts' and then waiting, to make days, was a choice. God makes all the original stuff instantly, and then 'waits' so that there will be a day. He could make everything instantly in one go instead, but chose to make a week and create in 'bursts' over that week.
The Bible says God rested. You assert He's still creating things. If He is, I'm sure its not ex nihilo creation like the Genesis creation was. Genesis reveals that humans were the only ones made ex materia, from previous existing materials.
Ever wonder why we have a 7 day week instead of a millions-years week? The rotation of earth makes a day, revolution around the sun a year, moon rotation a month, but what makes the Week? The Bible.
Or do you believe that the time that passes, that we experience is a mere allegory too?

He does care if Ken lies about it. Maybe he doesn't really know what evolution is; maybe he does and pretends otherwise. Hard to say, but the effect is the same.

And it's a shame. YE creationists are no less Christian than the rest of us, so long as they don't start worshiping their new doctrines to the detriment of their relationship with God.

This is why the first book I wrote is called The Lie. Its message is what I call the basic relevance message— the relevance of Genesis 1–11. After all, Genesis 1–11 is the foundation for everything, and there’s been a massive attack on this portion of Scripture in our day— both from the world and from within the church, with so many church leaders compromising God’s Word with evolution and millions of years.


The book The Lie positioned Answers in Genesis as a biblical authority ministry. And that has always been our emphasis—biblical authority and the gospel. Now, because evolution and millions of years have been a major part of the attack on biblical authority in our era, we certainly deal with issues such as the age of the earth, molecules-to-man evolution, and so on.

The attack on Genesis is really an attack from the religion of naturalism, which is atheism. Evolution and millions of years are foundational to the religion of atheism.

Twelve years ago, I updated The Lie. The essence of the message didn’t change, as God’s Word doesn’t change, but the culture had changed. This year, I did another major update to The Lie. (After all, 12 years ago, we didn’t have such prevalent LGBTQ issues as we do today. The culture has continued to change.) In addition to text revisions, I also upgraded all the illustrations and published them in color.

The message I wrote in the 1980s is still as relevant today as it was then because the Bible and God’s clear words have not changed. This book is a classic, detailing the major message of the Answers in Genesis ministry and the creation apologetics ministry in general.

src: answersingenesis.org/blogs/ken-ham/2024/09/27/first-lie/

 

[KV-44-v1]

YE creationists

Fun fact, there is YEK2KE.
You can believe K2KE but reject deep time. Actually, deep time is a bigger threat than K2KE. Deep time is usually pushed more, and more insidious.

 

[Barbarian]

You can believe K2KE but reject deep time.

You can reject all sorts of reality. Funny thing about that, though; reality doesn't care what you think.

Actually, deep time is a bigger threat than K2KE.

Realty is a bigger threat than a creationist misconception about reality? How so?

Deep time is usually pushed more, and more insidious.

Why not just accept God's word as it is, without any additions? Then "deep time" ceases to be scary.

 

[Barbarian]

Would you also hate the belief that God created His creation with death and chance being His methods?

Darwin's great discovery was that it isn't by chance. And while God could have produced a world without death, He chose not to do that. And no, Adam didn't force God to kill.

His methods? Why not create instantly?

Why question His choice? As you have seen, it turns out that evolutionary processes are more efficient than design for very complex processes. Engineers have started copying God's way when design fails.

Or mabye K2KE implies that God's 'evil' and chose to create cruelly.

God is not fair as we consider fairness. Not everyone is equally fortunate in life. God could have made it so, but He chose not to do that. And no, Adam did not force God to be "unfair."

The Bible says God rested. You assert He's still creating things.

He created you, for example. Or if you deny that, tell us who did create you.

But in the Biblical view, God can just get straight to it. No pain no death. Very good.

And yet, we see billions of years of death. You're trying to make God do it your way.

Ever wonder why we have a 7 day week

Enter the Babylonians. This ancient society, who lived in Mesopotamia in what is now Iraq, rounded the Moon cycle down to 28 days and divided this time span into 4 periods of 7 days each, using leap days to stay in sync with the Moon phases in the long run.
...
Avid astronomers and astrologers, the Babylonians developed a kind of horoscope around 500 BCE where each day of the week was assigned to one of the classical planets – the seven non-fixed celestial bodies visible to the naked eye. These are the Sun, the Moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, and Saturn.

Why Are There 7 Days in a Week?

It's Monday, you have to wait 5 days till the weekend. Why does a week have 7 days, and why in that order? Thank the Moon and an ancient people in today's Iraq.

www.timeanddate.com

God used the conventional week as a metaphor for creation.

Genesis reveals that humans were the only ones made ex materia, from previous existing materials.

Hmm....

Genesis 1:24 And God said: Let the earth bring forth the living creature in its kind, cattle and creeping things, and beasts of the earth, according to their kinds. And it was so done.

Sorry, that's wrong, according to God.

The rotation of earth makes a day, revolution around the sun a year, moon rotation a month, but what makes the Week? The Bible.

Sorry, the week existed long before there was a Bible, long before God spoke to Abraham. See above.

Or do you believe that the time that passes, that we experience is a mere allegory too?

As you see, we don't actually measure time; we measure events, setting our concept of time by counting the number of events.

 

[KV-44-v1]

You can reject all sorts of reality. Funny thing about that, though; reality doesn't care what you think.

I don't think you are rejecting reality, I think you want to artificially make it easier for athiests to accept Christianity by chucking in deeptime. Compromise. Ceding ground.

How do you think K2KE works? Does God directly, supernaturally, edit the genes Himself, or does it just happen? If God directs it then it is not because of the laws of physics, but Divine Intervention.

Realty is a bigger threat than a creationist misconception about reality? How so?

Realty is a bigger threat than a OEE misconception about reality? How so?

Why not just accept God's word as it is, without any additions? Then "deep time" ceases to be scary.

Deep time (mills bills of years of alleged history) came from man, not the Bible. Where can we find it? Right, nowhere.

YEC truth > young earth evolution (yee!) > Oee

Precisely what text are we "putting" in the Bible to "make it seem" like the earth is young?? Hmmmmmmm????

Have humans existed for 'illions of years? Yes or no??

And while God could have produced a world without death, He chose not to do that.

Where is that in the Bible? Fun fact: God is not as mean as you think He is. 1 Corinthians 15:26

And no, Adam didn't force God to kill.

Your logic implies God is also being forced to send people to the lake of fire. Oh my.

Why question His choice?

The only one questioning His choice is you. how did you conclude that k2ke WAS His choice?
God said.... and it was so. Not "it eventually became so". Why why why does God need scientists to reveal His creation method? He doesn't. The Bible revealed the yec truth for 2000+ years and counting.

You already admit SDA did NOT invent the Bible truth. You admitted that there were YEC before sda. So trying to say otherwise is like me trying to say that people had smartphones in 1500 AD.

How do you know for sure that k2ke is caused by, specifically, God? Not nature not physics not invsibile martians??

As you have seen, it turns out that evolutionary processes are more efficient than design for very complex processes.

God is Omniscient. God is Omnipotent. He can create instantly and doesn't need to make the first creatures by slowly building them.
Mabye this applies when nature is in action, to reproduce more creatures. Also, they are natural selection processes. Inferior/weaker gets filtered out. Less nucleotides.
You cannot turn a cat into a whale no matter how much time is thrown at it.

Engineers have started copying the [Athiest's way, cobbling clumsily over oodles of time instead of creating in only days like YEC's believe], when design fails.

Lol, that is the exact opposite. Engineers design using planning n stuff. they dont wait morbillions of years to get their result. And they don't use pain and suffering to do so.

If their design fails, they try a different design.

Would you rather build a house by burning wood and throwing planks on each other in hopes it will land on the right surface instead of just building one without destroying? Would you rather smash electronics of random devices and somehow glue all the parts to make a gaming PC, or would you rather directly make the necessary parts and buy necessary parts?


Would you rather have weak destroy-death-suffering-create version of God?
Or, believe in the Omnipotent God Who doesnt need allat and Who gets 'straight to business'?

Just because K2KE and deep time have nasty logical implications does not mean we are "limiting God". YEC point out that fact, but you lack logic, so instead of accepting they are logical conclusions, you assert they are limiting God. No, my guy, that's your side doin that not the Bible's. Indeed, reality does indeed not care what you think.


"Yec" is literally a term for a specific belief that we have that came from the Bible. Its like the phrases/words "virgin birth" or "Exodus" or "fall of man". Christians have beliefs that are distinct and nameable.

God is not fair as we consider fairness. Not everyone is equally fortunate in life. God could have made it so, but He chose not to do that. And no, Adam did not force God to be "unfair."

strawman, i didnt mention fair.
YOU ARE DODGING THE IMPLICATIONS OF THE MIXING DEEPTIME+K2KE WORLDVIEW.
Fairness and evil are whole different animals.

Not everyone is equally fortunate in life.

I was referring to moral evil not natural evil.

God could have made it so, but He chose not to do that.

Made what so? Not everyone equally being fortunate? True.

And no, Adam did not force God to be "unfair."

????

Genesis 1:24 And God said: Let the earth bring forth the living creature in its kind, cattle and creeping things, and beasts of the earth, according to their kinds. And it was so done.

Tell me how this is not literal. You literally think the literal earth literally made creaturees
Tell me, when was the last time you saw a cow, moose, elk, deer, or chicken come out of the ground Walking Dead style? Hmmmmmmmmm???

"And it was so done?? No! millions of years is whats is true.
And it was so done: No!!
And it was done after generations of generations? Yessss!!!!! Yec is made by sda and Jews had time machines to see what SDA would do in the future!

Kinds are according to functionality, you say. Birds and dinoes have MASSIVELY different functionalities so even under your view K2KE is wrong.

Tell me WHICH dinoes evolved into WHICH birds? The giant toothy tanky jaws of a T rex vs the silly beak of a bluejay. What do you think t rex and bluejay have in common? they have more different than common, right? Or no?

He created you,

How do you know this?

for example. Or if you deny that, tell us who did create you.

Mabye He did, but it was likely using preexisting materials. And i don't know how humans get the soul.

And yet, we see billions of years of death.

!!!Wrong!!!! we see rapid burial because of the worldwide flood. I say flood, you say magic deeptime.
You never answered the fossil fuel viability problem. Deep timers never can, they must guess and make up fancy scenarios nobody can solidly prove.
And there is no explanation to why the bones didn't get carried off, swept away, or fully decayed. You do know bones don't magically sit there for eons of time, right?

"But i want to maintain happy feelings with athiests who insist their Triad is true! Appeasing athiests is clearly more important than Truth. > " - A logical conclusion of k2ke force-merged with Christianity.

If the world had one worldwide flood, what would we expect?? Can you answer?

You're trying to make God do it your way

Why are you asserting that I'm better than God? God's creation was very GOOD. Set your pride and desire to turn God into a dictator aside and accept that God is too powerful to need wasteful nonsense like death and destruction to make His original creation. Just because we see bad today does not mean it always was that way.

OEE: My professor said that tree 500 feet from your house is millions of years old. Wow, i cannot believe it would be there for all that time. But i must believe that the tree was always there.
Yec: Huh? What do you mean? That tree was planted 40 years ago.
OEE: No! It was always there!
Yec: I observed it. I'm 50, and I saw my mom plant it there. Were you around?
OEE: But that tree is there, therefore it was ALWAYS there!
Yec: Oh my. You dont trust eyewitness evidence and you guess about history. *shows black n white photos of his mom planting the tree*
Oee: YOURE BEING TOO LITERAL!! THE PHOTO IS ACTUALLY A METAPHOR FOR SOMETHING ELSE!
Yec: What is the something else?
Oee: IDK but just TRUST me bro! Im outta here! *Oee leaves, goes to his car, and drives away irritated.*
Yec: The athiestic contraChristian schools are failing our kids and ignorantly teaching false origins. no wonder so many grow up dumb and there is less critical thinking in the USA.

 

[KV-44-v1]

Enter the Babylonians. This ancient society, who lived in Mesopotamia in what is now Iraq, rounded the Moon cycle down to 28 days and divided this time span into 4 periods of 7 days each, using leap days to stay in sync with the Moon phases in the long run.
...
Avid astronomers and astrologers, the Babylonians developed a kind of horoscope around 500 BCE where each day of the week was assigned to one of the classical planets – the seven non-fixed celestial bodies visible to the naked eye. These are the Sun, the Moon, Mars, Mercury, Jupiter, Venus, and Saturn.

Funny. They probably copied the Hebrew week. After all, Daniel and his freinds were captured and taken there. Is it not likely they gave them the 7 day Week?
Besides, God wrote His law on our heart, so could they have instinctually known about the 7 day week? How did they find out about jupiter and saturn????

Why Are There 7 Days in a Week?

It's Monday, you have to wait 5 days till the weekend. Why does a week have 7 days, and why in that order? Thank the Moon and an ancient people in today's Iraq.

www.timeanddate.com

God used the conventional week as a metaphor for creation.

Where's the metaphor? You pulled it from a hat.
God created over that period.
Or mabye perhaps you are using the Babylonians as a metaphor for how people copy from other people.

 

[Barbarian]

Funny. They probably copied the Hebrew week.

Abraham lived in Ur, and the language he grew up with was similar to old Aramaic. And that was more recent than the old Akkadian, in which the first Mesopotamian calendars were scribed.

Besides, God wrote His law on our heart, so could they have instinctually known about the 7 day week?

But not the 28 day month of the same calendar? C'mon. God is not imperfect.

Where's the metaphor? You pulled it from a hat.

The seven days were for the seven classical planets of Mesopotamia. The week was a metaphor for those seven. Even today, we use a version of it.

 

[Barbarian]

I don't think you are rejecting reality, I think you want to artificially make it easier for athiests to accept Christianity by chucking in deeptime. Compromise. Ceding ground.

Ironically, the Big Bang was attacked by an atheist scientist (Fred Hoyle), precisely because deep time suggested a creator. You have it backwards.

Deep time (mills bills of years of alleged history) came from man, not the Bible. Where can we find it? Right, nowhere.

Solid state physics didn't come from the Bible, either. Lots of things that are true, aren't in the Bible. The important thing is that nothing in the Bible denies billions of years of creation.

Have humans existed for 'illions of years? Yes or no??

Our species seems to be hundreds of thousands of years old. Other species of humans existed earlier; I'm thinking that Adam and Eve were Archaic H. sapiens, but it wouldn't matter if they were H. erectus.

And while God could have produced a world without death, He chose not to do that.

Ecclesiastes 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

That was God's way from the beginning. This is why the Tree of Life was in the Garden; it was there to keep Adam from dying. Adam was never immortal, something God alludes to in Genesis:

Genesis 3:22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”

And no, Adam did not force God to kill animals. Physical death was already there.

As you may remember, the death God mentioned to Adam in the Garden was a spiritual death, not a physical one. Would you like to see how we know that?

You already admit SDA did NOT invent the Bible truth.

SDA invented YE creationism, not the Bible. Remember? You're confusing the idea of a young Earth with YE creationism. St. Augustine, for example, thought that the Earth was a few thousand years old, but was aware that the days of creation were not literal ones.

YE creationism was invented by a SDA "prophetess" in the early 1900s.

Your logic implies God is also being forced to send people to the lake of fire.

No, that's a choice people make for themselves. Animals do not chose to die; they have no choice.

 

[Barbarian]

The only one questioning His choice is you. how did you conclude that k2ke WAS His choice?

K2ke is the modern invention of YE creationists. Of course it's not his choice.

God said.... and it was so. Not "it eventually became so". Why why why does God need scientists to reveal His creation method?

He left the details for us to find out. You see, the Bible is about God and man and our relationship. You're trying to make it into a science text.

As you have seen, it turns out that evolutionary processes are more efficient than design for very complex processes.

 

[KV-44-v1]

K2ke is the modern invention of YE creationists. Of course it's not his choice

Did you forget what k2ke is?? Why are you saying that YEC invented your belief? Tell me which Yec's did so. Doubt you can. So the ones you have to blame are the ancient pagans whose beliefs Darwin revived.

So you admit that dinoes do not turn into birds? You admit that K2KE is wrong! Now finally you will accept Bible truth more, and accept that kinds stay their kinds, they do not "evolve into higher taxa". Example hippo or bear to whale, or ant to beetle, or bee to dragonfly, or daffodil into redwood tree.

He left the details for us to find out.

Okay then, Jesus didnt really die for us (Did God really say???? Hissssss.) and His death is a big ole metaphor. And if you try to say otherwise, your'e being too literal! We have to blindly charge ahead not knowing if He died or not! BRUH.

And that reeks of humanism, because its stating some bold mission that is not there. "Oh God's word is not good enough, we need to seek ourselves!" That invites vulnerability to making stuff up. And how will we know if we are right?

You believe God starts out by leaving His people in the dark. Admit it, that is the conclusion of your view.

Trying to merge Pagan-originated, athiest-preached beliefs and the Bible is a big flop. It destabilizes people's minds.

You see, the Bible is about God and man and our relationship.

Yes. But history is also important too and gives us context and shows WHY we need God, and WHY of other things too, like why is there death, etc.
Genesis explains so much if you would let go of allegorism.

You're trying to make it into a science text.

How? History is not science. Exactly what "science" am I trying to put in Genesis?

As you have seen, it turns out that evolutionary processes are more efficient than design for very complex processes.

As you have seen, God Omniscient and Omnipotent so He has no need to create using any "processes". Pretty sure God did not use so called "design processes" , what He thinks, He thinks of immediately and creates immediately. No processes are needed.
He says it, its there.

 

[KV-44-v1]

Ironically, the Big Bang was attacked by an atheist scientist (Fred Hoyle), precisely because deep time suggested a creator. You have it backwards.

Oh? How? Source? Quote?
You have it backward, because almost all, if not all (besides him) athiests glaze and promote deep time so hard. So magically he thinks it suggests a Creator, but the majority somehow don't??? How absurd....

Solid state physics didn't come from the Bible, either.

Pitting Guesses about the past vs real time observation is false equivalence. Pitting origins "science" (really, history) against the mechanics of the universe. Just because our universe runs on certain laws does not mean the laws of physics are the origin of things.
If they did they should keep doing such again and again and again.

Lots of things that are true, aren't in the Bible.

Yes, its the contraBiblical compromise i am addressing, not simply the extra Biblical. Extra and contra are different terms.

The important thing is that nothing in the Bible denies billions of years of creation.

Nothing in the Bible denies the Yec truth because it doesnt contradict itself.

""Where Did a Young-earth Worldview Come From?​

Simply put, it came from the Bible. Of course, the Bible doesn’t say explicitly anywhere, “The earth is 6,000 years old.” Good thing it doesn’t; otherwise it would be out of date the following year. But we wouldn’t expect an all-knowing God to make that kind of a mistake.

God gave us something better. In essence, He gave us a “birth certificate.” For example, using a personal birth certificate, a person can calculate how old he is at any point. It is similar with the earth. Genesis 1 says that the earth was created on the first day of creation (Genesis 1:1–5). From there, we can begin to calculate the age of the earth.

Let’s do a rough calculation to show how this works. The age of the earth can be estimated by taking the first five days of creation (from earth’s creation to Adam), then following the genealogies from Adam to Abraham in Genesis 5 and 11, then adding in the time from Abraham to today.

Adam was created on day 6, so there were five days before him. If we add up the dates from Adam to Abraham, we get about 2,000 years, using the Masoretic Hebrew text of Genesis 5 and 11.3 Whether Christian or secular, most scholars would agree that Abraham lived about 2,000 B.C. (4,000 years ago).

So a simple calculation is:
5 days
+ ~2,000 years
+ ~4,000 years
~6,000 years
""


"The Bible clearly teaches the young-earth creationist view of Genesis 1–11. That was the almost universal belief of the church for 1800 years. Progressive Creationism and Theistic Evolutionism in all their various forms (day-age view, gap theory, framework hypothesis, analogical days view, local flood view, etc.) are recent and novel interpretations that will not stand up to scrutiny with an open Bible. A growing body of overwhelming scientific evidence also shows that evolution and millions of years are religiously motivated myths masquerading as scientific fact.""

Our species seems to be hundreds of thousands of years old.

Yes, seems, if one fails to factor in the Flood. If one tries to rely on fallible science instead of scrutinizing it with the Bible. Instead of using the Bible to check "science" you, barb, do the opposite. How inverse and dangerous.

Other species of humans existed earlier; I'm thinking that Adam and Eve were Archaic H. sapiens, but it wouldn't matter if they were H. erectus.

And while God could have produced a world without death, He chose not to do that.

You have nothing to back that. Will there be death in Heaven? Why does God call death an enemy?

Ecclesiastes 3:19 For that which befalleth the sons of men befalleth beasts; even one thing befalleth them: as the one dieth, so dieth the other; yea, they have all one breath; so that a man hath no preeminence above a beast: for all is vanity.

Yes, that verse is addressing AFTER the fall of man, not before. When was that written? That also uses present tense. So yes it is referring to AFTER the fall.

That was God's way from the beginning. This is why the Tree of Life was in the Garden; it was there to keep Adam from dying. Adam was never immortal, something God alludes to in Genesis:

Genesis 3:22 Then the LORD God said, “Behold, the man has become like one of Us, to know good and evil. And now, lest he put out his hand and take also of the tree of life, and eat, and live forever”

So Yec arent supposed to take Genesis literally, but magically, Darwinists can if it suits them.
Blatant hypocrisy??

And no, Adam did not force God to kill animals.

Whats up with this "force force"? Ive already refuted that.

SDA invented YE creationism, not the Bible. Remember? You're confusing the idea of a young Earth with YE creationism.

Then what is YE creationism????

St. Augustine, for example, thought that the Earth was a few thousand years old, but was aware that the days of creation were not literal ones.

No, he was saying that all the days of creation happened in one day. How did you get "not literal"??? Or do you think his attributing days to angel knowledge was being metaphorical?

YE creationism was invented by a SDA "prophetess" in the early 1900s.

Was it really? Or did people believe it long before then? Choose one. Why do you want to have your cake and eat it too?

No, that's a choice people make for themselves. Animals do not chose to die; they have no choice.

And adam sinned, it was his choice. God showed us the punishment of sin was death. That was, in a way, foreshadowing of Jesus.

 

[KV-44-v1]

But not the 28 day month of the same calendar? C'mon. God is not imperfect

Perhaps they wanted something different. Like how some people think lying and abusing God's Name are a ok, but condemn theft & murder.

God won't eliminate our freewill.

 

[Barbarian]

Kinds are according to functionality, you say.

Bible kinds. Bats are classified as birds in scripture.

Did you forget what k2ke is??

Some creationist revision of science.

Why are you saying that YEC invented your belief?

That's yours, not science.

So you admit that dinoes do not turn into birds?

This is why people laugh at YECs. They actually think evolutionary theory predicts that stuff.

You admit that K2KE is wrong!

Your idea, your problem.

Now finally you will accept Bible truth more, and accept that kinds stay their kinds, they do not "evolve into higher taxa".

Even honest YECs admit that the evidence indicates that they do. Would you like me to show you, again? Of course, "higher" really means nothing like that in evolutionary theory. YECs are always thinking of stuff that wouldn't fit the theory like hippo or bear to whale, or ant to beetle, or bee to dragonfly, or daffodil into redwood tree. Darwin briefly speculated that a large carnivore might have evolved to a whale, but later, anatomy convinced him that it didn't happen that way.

Tell me WHICH dinoes evolved into WHICH birds?

Maniraptora is a clade of coelurosaurian dinosaurs which includes the birds and the non-avian dinosaurs that were more closely related to them than to Ornithomimus velox. It contains the major subgroups Avialae, Dromaeosauridae, Troodontidae, Oviraptorosauria, and Therizinosauria. Ornitholestes and the Alvarezsauroidea are also often included. Together with the next closest sister group, the Ornithomimosauria, Maniraptora comprises the more inclusive clade Maniraptoriformes. Maniraptorans first appear in the fossil record during the Jurassic Period (see Eshanosaurus), and survive today as living birds.

Maniraptora - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Guys like these:

 

[KV-44-v1]

Some creationist revision of science.

No.
You clearly accepted that K2KE was family-to-family, and thus kind-to-kind evolution. IDK what happened, did you forget?

YECs. They actually think evolutionary theory predicts that stuff.

So you think YECs think that evo theory predicts that dinoes don't turn into birds?
Notice i said "dinoes". Not "A dino".

Your idea, your problem.

I made the acronym, for easier discussion. Should i type the long "KIND TO KIND EVOLUTION" every time i want to refer to your belief about how all the different orders, families, and lower taxa of biological life came about????

My "idea" was to make discussion easier and flow smoother. Like how you say YEC instead of "young earth creationist" every time. YEC is not a "new idea" it is an acronym for a specific belief(s).

 

[KV-44-v1]

YECs are always thinking of stuff that wouldn't fit the theory like hippo or bear to whale, or ant to beetle, or bee to dragonfly, or daffodil into redwood tree.

But magically, for some reason, dino to bird is right.

Whatever happened to "too evolved in their own right"? Like man to monke is impossible because "too evolved in their own right"?
You like to say im "limiting God" with my Bible-based belief. Well if monke cannot turn into man, then you must, by your logic, be limiting God!!


Why not accept that kinds only result in that same kind. The Bible says it. Not another one. Sure theres new genus, new species, but never new kind.

Feels like this is a guess, there is no evidence that K2KE, if real, would be/is limited. If the theory is true i find no reason to think anything should be "too evolved" to "evolve" further, like monke into man.

 

[Barbarian]

YECs are always thinking of stuff that wouldn't fit the theory like hippo or bear to whale, or ant to beetle, or bee to dragonfly, or daffodil into redwood tree.

But magically, for some reason, dino to bird is right.

As you learned, birds are dinosaurs. Remember, you couldn't name one characteristic of birds that isn't also found on dinosaurs? So not much evolution happened between maniraptors and modern birds.

Whatever happened to "too evolved in their own right"?

Birds, as you discovered, aren't really very evolved from some other dinosaurs.

Like man to monke is impossible because "too evolved in their own right"?

Yep. They evolved off in different directions. Would you like some details on their different apomorphic characters?

You like to say im "limiting God" with my Bible-based belief.

No, I'm pointing out that you're limiting God with your man-based belief.

Well if monke cannot turn into man, then you must, by your logic, be limiting God!!

God could always poof one into the other. He just doesn't seem to work that way. Remember, all things are possible with God, but He is not obligated to do all things.

Why not accept that kinds only result in that same kind.

Because that's a man-made belief that not supported by scripture or by evidence.

The Bible says it.

No, that's man's revision of God's word.

Feels like this is a guess, there is no evidence that K2KE, if real, would be/is limited.

Well, K2KE is your doctrine. So you can make it be whatever you like.

If the theory is true i find no reason to think anything should be "too evolved" to "evolve" further, like monke into man.

I suppose everything seems simple if one doesn't know much about it.