L
Lyric's Dad
Guest
And do you place your faith in trying to keep them? Do you think it will assist you in your salvation?Soma-Sight said:
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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
https://christianforums.net/threads/psalm-70-1-save-me-o-god-lord-help-me-now.108509/
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
Read through the following study by Tenchi for more on this topic
https://christianforums.net/threads/without-the-holy-spirit-we-can-do-nothing.109419/
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
Join Sola Scriptura for a discussion on the subject
https://christianforums.net/threads/anointed-preaching-teaching.109331/#post-1912042
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S
Soma-Sight
Guest
Do I think that obedience to Christlike principles helps me in my Salvation?
YES!!!!!!!
Obedience is a MUST for a follower of Christ!
There is mountains of proof for this is the Gospel....
Matt 25 when it talks about the sheeps and goats and the "good works" to the poor.....
The sheep are those that loved the poor like they love Christ and the goats were the ones that did not help the poor.....
In James we are told that Faith without Works is dead.......
Whenever someone asked Jesus what it "takes" to me saved he ALWAYS mentions the Commandments..... (Think of Nicodemus)
The best example of "obedience" and "salvation" is stated with this verse.....
John 14:15
If you love me you will do as I command......
So yes the false doctrine of fruitless faith getting one to Heaven is not something I believe in!
This is why people of other Faith groups that have done the Lord's work in ignorance by listening to the Holy Spirit will be saved!
YES!!!!!!!
Obedience is a MUST for a follower of Christ!
There is mountains of proof for this is the Gospel....
Matt 25 when it talks about the sheeps and goats and the "good works" to the poor.....
The sheep are those that loved the poor like they love Christ and the goats were the ones that did not help the poor.....
In James we are told that Faith without Works is dead.......
Whenever someone asked Jesus what it "takes" to me saved he ALWAYS mentions the Commandments..... (Think of Nicodemus)
The best example of "obedience" and "salvation" is stated with this verse.....
John 14:15
If you love me you will do as I command......
So yes the false doctrine of fruitless faith getting one to Heaven is not something I believe in!
This is why people of other Faith groups that have done the Lord's work in ignorance by listening to the Holy Spirit will be saved!
Karma2Grace
Member
Soma-Sight said:
Yes work is necessary to show our gratitude for salvation, Works will not lead to salvation but work is the effect of salvation which is a cause
Salvation is through JESUS only not by works; Even the good works after salvation is not from US but from Christ
Eph 2:10 “For we are His workmanship, CREATED in Christ Jesus for good works, which God prepared beforehand so that we would walk in themâ€Â
Through our new birth (salvation) God is created us to do good works; it is not something which any one can boast
S
Soma-Sight
Guest
I wonder why Fundys love to forget about James......??????
Faith and Deeds
14What good is it, my brothers, if a man claims to have faith but has no deeds? Can such faith save him? 15Suppose a brother or sister is without clothes and daily food. 16If one of you says to him, "Go, I wish you well; keep warm and well fed," but does nothing about his physical needs, what good is it? 17In the same way, faith by itself, if it is not accompanied by action, is dead.
18But someone will say, "You have faith; I have deeds."
Show me your faith without deeds, and I will show you my faith by what I do. BINGO!!!!
19You believe that there is one God. Good! Even the demons believe thatâ€â€and shudder.
20You foolish man, do you want evidence that faith without deeds is useless[d]? 21Was not our ancestor Abraham considered righteous for what he did when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22You see that his faith and his actions were working together, and his faith was made complete by what he did. 23And the scripture was fulfilled that says, "Abraham believed God, and it was credited to him as righteousness,"[e] and he was called God's friend. 24You see that a person is justified by what he does and not by faith alone.
25In the same way, was not even Rahab the prostitute considered righteous for what she did when she gave lodging to the spies and sent them off in a different direction? 26As the body without the spirit is dead, so faith without deeds is dead.
S
Solo
Guest
Faith comes before good works. Simple. Faith comes first and then comes works. Without Faith, there can be no good works.
Don't forget to read Hebrews 11 so that you can rightly divide the truth in the word of God.
4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. 13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: 19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; 25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; 26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: 33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. 35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: 36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: 37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; 38 (Of whom the world was not worthy
they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. 39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
Don't forget to read Hebrews 11 so that you can rightly divide the truth in the word of God.
4 By faith Abel offered unto God a more excellent sacrifice than Cain, by which he obtained witness that he was righteous, God testifying of his gifts: and by it he being dead yet speaketh.
5 By faith Enoch was translated that he should not see death; and was not found, because God had translated him: for before his translation he had this testimony, that he pleased God.
6 But without faith it is impossible to please him: for he that cometh to God must believe that he is, and that he is a rewarder of them that diligently seek him.
7 By faith Noah, being warned of God of things not seen as yet, moved with fear, prepared an ark to the saving of his house; by the which he condemned the world, and became heir of the righteousness which is by faith.
8 By faith Abraham, when he was called to go out into a place which he should after receive for an inheritance, obeyed; and he went out, not knowing whither he went. 9 By faith he sojourned in the land of promise, as in a strange country, dwelling in tabernacles with Isaac and Jacob, the heirs with him of the same promise: 10 For he looked for a city which hath foundations, whose builder and maker is God.
11 Through faith also Sara herself received strength to conceive seed, and was delivered of a child when she was past age, because she judged him faithful who had promised. 12 Therefore sprang there even of one, and him as good as dead, so many as the stars of the sky in multitude, and as the sand which is by the sea shore innumerable. 13 These all died in faith, not having received the promises, but having seen them afar off, and were persuaded of them, and embraced them, and confessed that they were strangers and pilgrims on the earth. 14 For they that say such things declare plainly that they seek a country. 15 And truly, if they had been mindful of that country from whence they came out, they might have had opportunity to have returned. 16 But now they desire a better country, that is, an heavenly: wherefore God is not ashamed to be called their God: for he hath prepared for them a city.
17 By faith Abraham, when he was tried, offered up Isaac: and he that had received the promises offered up his only begotten son, 18 Of whom it was said, That in Isaac shall thy seed be called: 19 Accounting that God was able to raise him up, even from the dead; from whence also he received him in a figure.
20 By faith Isaac blessed Jacob and Esau concerning things to come.
21 By faith Jacob, when he was a dying, blessed both the sons of Joseph; and worshipped, leaning upon the top of his staff.
22 By faith Joseph, when he died, made mention of the departing of the children of Israel; and gave commandment concerning his bones.
23 By faith Moses, when he was born, was hid three months of his parents, because they saw he was a proper child; and they were not afraid of the king's commandment.
24 By faith Moses, when he was come to years, refused to be called the son of Pharaoh's daughter; 25 Choosing rather to suffer affliction with the people of God, than to enjoy the pleasures of sin for a season; 26 Esteeming the reproach of Christ greater riches than the treasures in Egypt: for he had respect unto the recompence of the reward.
27 By faith he forsook Egypt, not fearing the wrath of the king: for he endured, as seeing him who is invisible.
28 Through faith he kept the passover, and the sprinkling of blood, lest he that destroyed the firstborn should touch them.
29 By faith they passed through the Red sea as by dry land: which the Egyptians assaying to do were drowned.
30 By faith the walls of Jericho fell down, after they were compassed about seven days.
31 By faith the harlot Rahab perished not with them that believed not, when she had received the spies with peace.
32 And what shall I more say? for the time would fail me to tell of Gedeon, and of Barak, and of Samson, and of Jephthae; of David also, and Samuel, and of the prophets: 33 Who through faith subdued kingdoms, wrought righteousness, obtained promises, stopped the mouths of lions, 34 Quenched the violence of fire, escaped the edge of the sword, out of weakness were made strong, waxed valiant in fight, turned to flight the armies of the aliens. 35 Women received their dead raised to life again: and others were tortured, not accepting deliverance; that they might obtain a better resurrection: 36 And others had trial of cruel mockings and scourgings, yea, moreover of bonds and imprisonment: 37 They were stoned, they were sawn asunder, were tempted, were slain with the sword: they wandered about in sheepskins and goatskins; being destitute, afflicted, tormented; 38 (Of whom the world was not worthy
they wandered in deserts, and in mountains, and in dens and caves of the earth. 39 And these all, having obtained a good report through faith, received not the promise: 40 God having provided some better thing for us, that they without us should not be made perfect.
S
Soma-Sight
Guest
For those interested......
I have been researching this topic more and the MAGI of this story are most likely ZORASTRIAN PRIESTS!
They worshipped the God that would become the Graet sacrifice for all man and recognized Christ as the Saviour in THEIR religon!
Look it up on google.....
Zoraster the prophet and Zorastrianism....
http://www.meta-religion.com/World_Reli ... strism.htm
I have been researching this topic more and the MAGI of this story are most likely ZORASTRIAN PRIESTS!
They worshipped the God that would become the Graet sacrifice for all man and recognized Christ as the Saviour in THEIR religon!
Look it up on google.....
Zoraster the prophet and Zorastrianism....
http://www.meta-religion.com/World_Reli ... strism.htm
M
MrVersatile48
Guest
SEE GENERAL TALK FORUM'S HALLOWEEN VIEWS THREAD..
As it's a long one, I'll quickly copy my posts from there here
This, meanwhile, is post 2 of today's new "Help For Halloween Casualties" thread there:-
____________________________
BreakPoint with Charles Colson
http://www.breakpoint.org
'The Unpaid Bills of the Church'
Wicca's Charm
October 31, 2005
"Imagine losing all your friends at once," a woman named Margaret Ann told Catherine Edwards Sanders, the author of Wicca's Charm.
Margaret Ann was talking about her decision to leave her Baptist faith and become a Wiccan during her college years. "My family ganged up on me and refused to discuss it with me at all," she recalls.
Sanders adds, "All of her friends, except one, deserted her. Not one of the members of the Christian group [on campus] bothered to ask why she liked Wicca. . . . Other Christian students would only talk to her to tell her that they were praying for her."
At another point in the book, Sanders tells the story of what happened to a
group of Wiccans in Orange County. As they were practicing a sunrise
ritual, a group of Christians surrounded the Wiccans with their cars and
blared loud Christian rock music at them.
What's wrong with this picture?
To begin with, we need to understand that Wicca and its power are real.
Marketers of popular kids' books and TV programs about Wicca told Sanders
that it's all fake and something kids do just for fun. But as both current
and former Wiccans report, Wicca is a real, powerful, and dangerous thing.
Laura, a high school student, told Sanders that she "had a very bad
experience" during a Wiccan ritual and is now "haunted by a scary
presence."
Kathleen and Paula, two former Wiccans, also report "negative
experiences too frightening to describe." Others have similar accounts.
So it's hardly surprising that we Christians would perceive Wicca as a
threat. But is it right for us then to turn our backs on Wiccans, or to
treat them offensively? What good can that possibly do?
That kind of behavior has never been known to win anyone to Christ--on the contrary, it only turns people away.
Sanders writes that many Wiccans were driven to their religion in the first place by the actions of Christians--like some women who were treated like "second-class citizens" in their churches, and turned
to Wicca.
Art Lindsley of the C. S. Lewis Institute says that Wicca and other forms of neo-Paganism are a result of "the unpaid bills of the church." The Church is supposed to be a place where everyone is treated with dignity and respect.
Our whole worldview is built on the idea of a loving God who created every person in His own image. When we fail to put that worldview into practice, people lose interest in Christianity.
Many of them go off in search of a religion built on self-fulfillment, not love ofGod--a religion like Wicca.
So how should we as Christians reach out to Wiccans? For one thing, we can take time to study and understand what they believe and the issues that are really important to them--issues like the environment. We don't have to worship the earth to understand why many Wiccans are so concerned about it.
But even more importantly, we must live out our own worldview through our actions, treating all people with love and respect.
He whom you would change, remember, you must first love, as Martin Luther King, Jr., taught us.
And if we do this, we will start paying some of those unpaid bills ourselves.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At Easter People, Rob Frost of Share Jesus International recommended Christians to exhibit at New Age "Body, Mind & Spirit Festivals"
Like other churches who have, http://www.southportelim.abelgratis.com got MANY folk looking at Christian books/DVDs/CDs, etc - & filling in prayer requests
Here's thread link..
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=18894
Back with those posts..
God bless!
Ian
As it's a long one, I'll quickly copy my posts from there here
This, meanwhile, is post 2 of today's new "Help For Halloween Casualties" thread there:-
____________________________
BreakPoint with Charles Colson
http://www.breakpoint.org
'The Unpaid Bills of the Church'
Wicca's Charm
October 31, 2005
"Imagine losing all your friends at once," a woman named Margaret Ann told Catherine Edwards Sanders, the author of Wicca's Charm.
Margaret Ann was talking about her decision to leave her Baptist faith and become a Wiccan during her college years. "My family ganged up on me and refused to discuss it with me at all," she recalls.
Sanders adds, "All of her friends, except one, deserted her. Not one of the members of the Christian group [on campus] bothered to ask why she liked Wicca. . . . Other Christian students would only talk to her to tell her that they were praying for her."
At another point in the book, Sanders tells the story of what happened to a
group of Wiccans in Orange County. As they were practicing a sunrise
ritual, a group of Christians surrounded the Wiccans with their cars and
blared loud Christian rock music at them.
What's wrong with this picture?
To begin with, we need to understand that Wicca and its power are real.
Marketers of popular kids' books and TV programs about Wicca told Sanders
that it's all fake and something kids do just for fun. But as both current
and former Wiccans report, Wicca is a real, powerful, and dangerous thing.
Laura, a high school student, told Sanders that she "had a very bad
experience" during a Wiccan ritual and is now "haunted by a scary
presence."
Kathleen and Paula, two former Wiccans, also report "negative
experiences too frightening to describe." Others have similar accounts.
So it's hardly surprising that we Christians would perceive Wicca as a
threat. But is it right for us then to turn our backs on Wiccans, or to
treat them offensively? What good can that possibly do?
That kind of behavior has never been known to win anyone to Christ--on the contrary, it only turns people away.
Sanders writes that many Wiccans were driven to their religion in the first place by the actions of Christians--like some women who were treated like "second-class citizens" in their churches, and turned
to Wicca.
Art Lindsley of the C. S. Lewis Institute says that Wicca and other forms of neo-Paganism are a result of "the unpaid bills of the church." The Church is supposed to be a place where everyone is treated with dignity and respect.
Our whole worldview is built on the idea of a loving God who created every person in His own image. When we fail to put that worldview into practice, people lose interest in Christianity.
Many of them go off in search of a religion built on self-fulfillment, not love ofGod--a religion like Wicca.
So how should we as Christians reach out to Wiccans? For one thing, we can take time to study and understand what they believe and the issues that are really important to them--issues like the environment. We don't have to worship the earth to understand why many Wiccans are so concerned about it.
But even more importantly, we must live out our own worldview through our actions, treating all people with love and respect.
He whom you would change, remember, you must first love, as Martin Luther King, Jr., taught us.
And if we do this, we will start paying some of those unpaid bills ourselves.
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
At Easter People, Rob Frost of Share Jesus International recommended Christians to exhibit at New Age "Body, Mind & Spirit Festivals"
Like other churches who have, http://www.southportelim.abelgratis.com got MANY folk looking at Christian books/DVDs/CDs, etc - & filling in prayer requests
Here's thread link..
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=18894
Back with those posts..
God bless!
Ian
M
MrVersatile48
Guest
LINK TO BIBLE VIEWS @ OCCULT, ETC..
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=18402
bACK TO HIGHLIGHT THOSE 3/4 POSTS...
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 2&start=60
& this bit:-
Thank you for raising important questions for completing Christ's Great Commission to reach every land, tribe & nation with His glorious good news gospel
Hallelujah parties celebrate Jesus' gift of eternal life for all who trust Him & take Him at His Word , not Satan's aim to destroy the lives of all whom he can fool & dupe - (as in Samain, the origin of 31 Oct celebrations)
"I set before you this day both life & death: therefore choose life"
Autologout looms, but Christians historically have sought to use the same "Bridge Strategy" as Jesus' parables did - (see http://www.gospelcom.net for online training courses in Internet Outreach)
Jesus always began from what was on folks' minds, to engage their interest - then put in His spiritual messages
What were early Christians to do at Ishtar. for example? Allow their neighbours to be conned into focussing on forbidden occult practices?
They instead showd folk that the Resurrection was much more precious to celebrate, so Easter was born
Likewise @ the Winter Solstice, they showed that the birth of Jesus was much more precious to celebrate, so Christmas came to be celebrated
& more..
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=18402
bACK TO HIGHLIGHT THOSE 3/4 POSTS...
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopi ... 2&start=60
& this bit:-
Thank you for raising important questions for completing Christ's Great Commission to reach every land, tribe & nation with His glorious good news gospel
Hallelujah parties celebrate Jesus' gift of eternal life for all who trust Him & take Him at His Word , not Satan's aim to destroy the lives of all whom he can fool & dupe - (as in Samain, the origin of 31 Oct celebrations)
"I set before you this day both life & death: therefore choose life"
Autologout looms, but Christians historically have sought to use the same "Bridge Strategy" as Jesus' parables did - (see http://www.gospelcom.net for online training courses in Internet Outreach)
Jesus always began from what was on folks' minds, to engage their interest - then put in His spiritual messages
What were early Christians to do at Ishtar. for example? Allow their neighbours to be conned into focussing on forbidden occult practices?
They instead showd folk that the Resurrection was much more precious to celebrate, so Easter was born
Likewise @ the Winter Solstice, they showed that the birth of Jesus was much more precious to celebrate, so Christmas came to be celebrated
& more..
M
MrVersatile48
Guest
Post subject: Doreen Irvine & Kathy Sharpe..
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
..were both Queens of Black Witches, but God saved & delivered them & turned them into anointed evangelists to deliver others - as in the 2 Corinthians 1:2-4 pattern of our passing on God's comfort to those in any kind of trouble
Doreen wrote the '70s classic, "From Witchcraft To Christ" - she'd helped lead the European Conference of Witches & Satanists that 1st planned to give the occult a fun image via kids' TV shows, movies & markettin ouija boards, planchettes, etc, as harmless toys
Kathy runs http://www.ex-witch.org ministries
Both have been in AoG Pentecostals's Joy Magazine
Just time to say see Deuteronomy 18:9-13 - God forbids ALL occult practices
Why?
See Revelation 13 & 17 @ the worst global tyranny ever: occult dominated, as made clear in End Times/Bible Prophecy forum thread @ Signs of the Beast..
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=16660
Must go
God bless!
Ian
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
..were both Queens of Black Witches, but God saved & delivered them & turned them into anointed evangelists to deliver others - as in the 2 Corinthians 1:2-4 pattern of our passing on God's comfort to those in any kind of trouble
Doreen wrote the '70s classic, "From Witchcraft To Christ" - she'd helped lead the European Conference of Witches & Satanists that 1st planned to give the occult a fun image via kids' TV shows, movies & markettin ouija boards, planchettes, etc, as harmless toys
Kathy runs http://www.ex-witch.org ministries
Both have been in AoG Pentecostals's Joy Magazine
Just time to say see Deuteronomy 18:9-13 - God forbids ALL occult practices
Why?
See Revelation 13 & 17 @ the worst global tyranny ever: occult dominated, as made clear in End Times/Bible Prophecy forum thread @ Signs of the Beast..
http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=16660
Must go
God bless!
Ian
T
TheShadow
Guest
Concerning the "Magi", recall Daniel's 70 weeks.
Dan 9:24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
It is possible the wisemen were aware of the prophecies Daniel had while he was in Babylon. Explanation here: http://www.truthnet.org/dan70.html
They came because of the sign of the extraordinary star, and also (possibly) because of the "signs of the times", including Daniel's 70weeks which, if you knew the start dates as they would, would easily be able to calculate the fulfillment of the prophecies. They are after all called "wise men".
The Jews also interpreted the scripture in the same manner, though they expected Christ to destroy the Romans instead of save them from their sins. Still, they were expecting their Messiah around this time.
Now, just because they came to worship Christ does not mean they were saved. But if they were not saved (only God knows), that they came to Christ does not justify abominations condemned by God (sorcery, assuming they practiced sorceries). God also gave the King of Babylon a prophetic dream, and also the Enemies of God were given a dream by God during the days of Gideon.
Basically, God can do what He wants for His own good reasons, but the Word of God is clear, and one cannot go against the Word of God.
Considering how clearly Christ could be seen in Biblical Prophecy, and many of the Jews still did not believe... Why not? Obviously the Jews had plenty of warning, from the Prophets even to those Shepards, yet many were so foolish that they could not recognize their Messiah when he came! Anyway, once you accept Christ as savior, you cannot possibly be a pagan any longer. Christ came for both Jews and Gentiles to save them from their sins.
John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Matthew 15:7Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Anyway, it was the Shepards who were first told of Christ's coming.
Dan 9:24Seventy weeks are determined upon thy people and upon thy holy city, to finish the transgression, and to make an end of sins, and to make reconciliation for iniquity, and to bring in everlasting righteousness, and to seal up the vision and prophecy, and to anoint the most Holy. 25Know therefore and understand, that from the going forth of the commandment to restore and to build Jerusalem unto the Messiah the Prince shall be seven weeks, and threescore and two weeks: the street shall be built again, and the wall, even in troublous times. 26And after threescore and two weeks shall Messiah be cut off, but not for himself: and the people of the prince that shall come shall destroy the city and the sanctuary; and the end thereof shall be with a flood, and unto the end of the war desolations are determined. 27And he shall confirm the covenant with many for one week: and in the midst of the week he shall cause the sacrifice and the oblation to cease, and for the overspreading of abominations he shall make it desolate, even until the consummation, and that determined shall be poured upon the desolate.
It is possible the wisemen were aware of the prophecies Daniel had while he was in Babylon. Explanation here: http://www.truthnet.org/dan70.html
They came because of the sign of the extraordinary star, and also (possibly) because of the "signs of the times", including Daniel's 70weeks which, if you knew the start dates as they would, would easily be able to calculate the fulfillment of the prophecies. They are after all called "wise men".
The Jews also interpreted the scripture in the same manner, though they expected Christ to destroy the Romans instead of save them from their sins. Still, they were expecting their Messiah around this time.
Now, just because they came to worship Christ does not mean they were saved. But if they were not saved (only God knows), that they came to Christ does not justify abominations condemned by God (sorcery, assuming they practiced sorceries). God also gave the King of Babylon a prophetic dream, and also the Enemies of God were given a dream by God during the days of Gideon.
Basically, God can do what He wants for His own good reasons, but the Word of God is clear, and one cannot go against the Word of God.
Considering how clearly Christ could be seen in Biblical Prophecy, and many of the Jews still did not believe... Why not? Obviously the Jews had plenty of warning, from the Prophets even to those Shepards, yet many were so foolish that they could not recognize their Messiah when he came! Anyway, once you accept Christ as savior, you cannot possibly be a pagan any longer. Christ came for both Jews and Gentiles to save them from their sins.
Christ says love your enemies, he did not say you couldn't tell them off.
John 8:44
Ye are of your father the devil, and the lusts of your father ye will do. He was a murderer from the beginning, and abode not in the truth, because there is no truth in him. When he speaketh a lie, he speaketh of his own: for he is a liar, and the father of it.
Matthew 15:7Ye hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying, 8This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.
Does everyone who comes to Christ require some sort of authority to come to Christ? Why would you need authority? Do you have to be saved before you can go to Christ? How can you be saved before you meet the Savior?
Anyway, it was the Shepards who were first told of Christ's coming.
What proof is there that only they comprehended it? And why do you assume that they were shooting up heroin and receiving visions?
He came not to call the Righteous, but sinners to repentance.
No interesting implications, except that you might have a thing for Drug trips to acheive "higher states of consciousness". It seems you might be the druggie, not the Magi.
You assume that they are sorcerers, you assume they were druggies (or whatever method they used) and that through their occultic practices they managed to seriously attain some sort of "higher spiritual reality", and you also assume that they were the only ones who saw the star and recognized what it could mean. Considering how many mistakes you have made, obviously you haven't read much of the Bible. Why don't you peddle your drug theology to people who are dumb enough to believe it?
T
TheShadow
Guest
Nonsense, only the unsaved would complain about being Judged when Christians point out the obvious. With just considering the name of this thread, one knows you are not what you say you are. What you have said has revealed your heart, not us.
S
Soma-Sight
Guest
My only and best suggestion to you would be to get into an intimate relationship with your Bible concordance....
If you deny the Truth that the wise men were NOT sorcerers than the Truth is NOT in you!
Not to mention Balaam......
Welcome to the forums by the way.... :P
S
Soma-Sight
Guest
A Magus (plural Magi, from Latin, via Greek μάγος from Old Persian maguÅ¡; Old English: Mage) was a Zoroastrian astrologer-priest from ancient Persia. The best known Magi are the "Wise Men from the East" in the Bible. In English, the term may refer to a shaman, sorcerer, or wizard; it is the origin of the English words magic and magician.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magi
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magi