-
-
-
-
-
Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
Join For His Glory for a discussion on how
https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
-
The Flood and Noah
- Thread starter ChevyRodeo
- Start date
Orion said:
For instance,,,,,We see pictures of tigers and bears and elephants going into a ark,,,,that not what happened.....
In Genesis chp 1 God created animal,,,,wild animals.......In Genesis 2 God gave Adam domestic animals,,,that he would use in taking care of the garden......These are domestic animals.....
Noah did not take bears and lions on the ark,,he took animals he would need in general daily life as a farmer/gardener.....I also dont believe the flood was worldwide..........
Ben Joiner
Member
- Sep 29, 2009
- 26
- 0
orion
is it possible that the flood occurred to change the direction of the earth's culture as with the tower of babel story in Gen 11?
is it possible that the flood occurred to change the direction of the earth's culture as with the tower of babel story in Gen 11?
westtexas
Member
- Jul 6, 2009
- 1,263
- 20
I don't want to de-rail Chevy's thread about the flood but I'm curious. Chapter 2 is merely a re-cap of chapter 1 with some some added detail. If you feel that God gave Adam wild animals in chapter 1 and domestic animals in chapter 2, which day of creation do you attribute this to?(THE) said:
Westtexas
(THE) said:
Welll, I have to say that your take on the story is much more "liberal" than the conservative Assemblies of God [I was raised with] story line where every single animal was placed on the Ark, because the flood was world wide and would kill everything living.
Do you see the flood story as world wide, or regional (as many are coming to believe now)?
Orion said:
Morning O
chp is not a retelling of chp one,,,,,
In chp 1 we have mankind being created,,,in chp 2 we have the man Adam (eth-ha-adam) being formed....
In chp 1 we have wild animals,,,in chp 2 we have domestic.....
In chp 1 there is no mention of the tree of knowledge,,,,in chp 2 it is brung to Adams attention....
Chp 1 is the rejuvenation of the earth and creating mankind and wild animals....
chp 2 is the forming of Adam,,,and Eve so the Christ can be born through them.....
westtexas said:
Waz up Westtexas,,,,
ok,,,, day 1 day 2 day 3 day 4 day 5 have just passed.......
Gen. 1:23 And the evening and the morning were the fifth day.
Gen. 1:24 And God said, Let the earth bring forth the living creature after his kind, cattle, and creeping thing, and beast of the earth after his kind: and it was so.
Gen. 1:27 So God created man in his own image, in the image of God created he him; male and female created he them.
Gen. 1:28 And God blessed them, and God said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish the earth, and subdue it: and have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over every living thing that moveth upon the earth.
Gen. 1:29 And God said, Behold, I have given you every herb bearing seed, which is upon the face of all the earth, and every tree, in the which is the fruit of a tree yielding seed; to you it shall be for meat.
Gen. 1:30 And to every beast of the earth, and to every fowl of the air, and to every thing that creepeth upon the earth, wherein there is life, I have given every green herb for meat: and it was so.
Gen. 1:31 And God saw every thing that he had made, and, behold, it was very good. And the evening and the morning were the sixth day.
Ok day 6 is over,,,and we now have animals on the earth,,,that were "CREATED"
Day 7 God rested.........
Gen. 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
Gen. 2:19 And out of the ground the LORD God formed every beast of the field, and every fowl of the air; and brought them unto Adam to see what he would call them: and whatsoever Adam called every living creature, that was the name thereof.
Gen. 2:20 And Adam gave names to all cattle, and to the fowl of the air, and to every beast of the field; but for Adam there was not found an help meet for him.
DId you notice God "FORMED" Adam and his domestic animals,,,,,but God CREATED mankind and wild animals....
Also its far fetched to believe Adam named every single animal,,,but I can see him naming his animals the animals he would need for help,, and as a companion....
Look at what God said...
Gen. 2:18 And the LORD God said, It is not good that the man should be alone; I will make him an help meet for him.
Maybe its just me,,,but I dont see God telling Adam this and then making a polar bear for Adam,,,,,what animals come to mind when you tend to a garden????
SO to answer your question,,,I contribute wild animas to day 6 of creation and domestic to,,,,,,,wait:::
domestic animals werent created how can I attribute them to days of creation
nah serioulsy domestic animals were formed after day 7 maybe day 8 ......
Orion said:
This is why God gave us common sense,,,,no way could the author possibly know if all people over the whole world spoke the same language....
Gen 11:1 And the whole earth was of one language, and of one speech.
earth='erets (Strong's No. 776) it means land so the author is refering to the land....
westtexas
Member
- Jul 6, 2009
- 1,263
- 20
Let me make sure I understand what you are saying before I say that I don't agree with any of it. If I understand you correctly you believe that Gen. 1:24 and 25 God created wild animals (but not domestic animals) and Gen. 1:26 and 27 God created mankind (but not Adam and Eve) on day 6 of creation. And then in Gen. 2:18-23 God formed Adam and Eve and domestic animals on day 8 of creation? So you believe that God created mankind before He created Adam and Eve and that there are a minimum of 8 days of creation in order to accomplish this. Correct?(THE) said:
Westtexas
Here is the flood of Noah and the days of Lot...
http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/ ... LogID=1765
It speaks of WW3 coming within 3 years. There's your flood.
http://www.gods-kingdom-ministries.org/ ... LogID=1765
It speaks of WW3 coming within 3 years. There's your flood.
RichardBurger
Member
- Aug 31, 2009
- 261
- 0
ChevyRodeo said:Is there something significant about water or a flood? I wonder why God chose to flood the world rather then just speak death upon the land, sparing Noah's family. Seems like it would have been a lot faster. God sent an angel to kill the 1st born of all of Egypt soo o sometimes God uses angels sometimes he uses a flood, sometimes I was just curious why the different methods if God could simply speak death into the land.
OUR ARK:
I believe what Paul said when he penned the words ""in Christ."" I also believe that we are placed ""in Christ"" by God. It is an operation of the Holy Spirit (God). See verse 21 below.
2 Cor 1:19-22
19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us-- by me, Silvanus, and Timothy-- was not Yes and No, but in Him was Yes.
20 For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us.
21 Now He who establishes us with you ""in Christ"" and has anointed us is God,
22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.
(NKJ)
I look at the words ""in Christ"" and think of them in reference to Noah and the flood.
The commandments in the law are the waters of the flood. The waters were the judgment of God on a sinful world full of sinful people and it is the law that condemns us today. The law condemns mankind because the law is perfect and mankind is not perfect.
To me the Ark is Jesus Christ and just as those in Noah's Ark were kept from the waters of the flood we who are placed ""in Christ"" by God are kept from the judgment of the law. If we are not ""in Christ"" the law condemns us.
Is this how you see it? If it is not true, why?
ChevyRodeo
Member
- Jan 14, 2009
- 254
- 0
- Thread starter
- #35
Why did Noah take animals on the boat... God could just make news ones after the flood.
If people where so evil and corrupt in that day , why not send.. you know, Jesus to earth to teach them, That's what God eventually had to do.
My basic take on God killing the world is that if God DIDN'T flood the world, more and more people would populate and just go to Hell, it would be an assembly line to Hell, and since God cut off their lineage, in the LONG RUN, less people went to hell and more to heaven.
If people where so evil and corrupt in that day , why not send.. you know, Jesus to earth to teach them, That's what God eventually had to do.
My basic take on God killing the world is that if God DIDN'T flood the world, more and more people would populate and just go to Hell, it would be an assembly line to Hell, and since God cut off their lineage, in the LONG RUN, less people went to hell and more to heaven.
westtexas said:
I think you pretty much got it,,,,,sorry you dont agree,,,but the bible is clear is clear,,,and if you just use a little hebrew it confirms,,,lets review.....
Gen 1:26-27
26 And God said, Let us make man (?????? ) "'adam is man, any man, men, mankind" in our image, after our likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth.
as you can see,, the word "'adam" means mankind,,,,,are you going to tell me that it doesnt??????
(?????? ) "'adam is man, any man, men, mankind
So in Genesis 1 God "CREATED" mankind.....
Lets look at Genesis 2
7 And the LORD God formed man 'eth haa-'adam with the Article & Particle is this particular man Adam)...... of the dust of the ground, and breathed into his nostrils the breath of life; and man became a living soul. KJV
The herbew uses articel and particle this lets the reader no when you see the word (man) whether or not we are reffering to a certain man or mankind or men in general......
In Genesis 1:26 we see the word "man" but it doesnt have article or particle,,,this lets us no that we are talking about mankind as a whole.....
In Genesis 2 we see the word man with the article and particle (eth-ha-adam) this means were talking about a certain man a particula man that Christ would come through.....
Just because you see the word "man" in Genesis,,,you cant assume thats Adam the husband of Eve.....THe Hebrew makes it very clear......
So if you believe I am wrong maybe you can tell me where my error is,,,,,,because from my studys I come up with ,,,
Gen 1:26 ('adam) mankind,,, men in general,,,,no article no particle......
Genesis 2:7 (ha-adam) with the article no particle,,,means the man being spoken of (the man)
Geneis 2:7 (eth-ha-adam) with the Article & Particle is this particular man Adam,,,,a certain man,,the man that would lead to the Christ.....
insert:::::: There are four principal Hebrew words rendered "man", and these must be carefully discriminated. Every occurrence is noted in the margin of The Companion Bible. They represent him from four different points of view :--
1. 'Adam, denotes his origin, as being made from the "dust of the Adamah" ground (Lat. homo).
2. 'Ish, has regard to sex, a male (Lat. vir).
3. 'Enosh, has regard to his infirmities, as physically mortal, and as to character, incurable.
4. Geber, has respect to his strength, a mighty man.
I. 'Adam, without the article, denotes man or mankind in general (Gen. 1:26; 2:5; 5:1, followed by plural pronoun). With the article, it denotes the man, Adam, though rendered "man" in Gen. 1:27; 2:7 (twice), 8, 15, 16, 19 (marg.), 22 (twice); 3:12, 22, 24; 5:1; 6:1 (rendered "men"), 2, 3, 4. After this, the Hebrew 'Adam = man or men, is used of the descendants of Adam. Hence, Christ is called "the son of Adam", not a son of Enosh.
With the particle ha ('eth) in addition to the article it is very emphatic, and means self, very, this same, this very. See Gen. 2:7 (first occurrence), 8, 15.
Rendered in the Septuagint anqrwpos (anthropos) 411 times; ajnhvr (aner) eighteen times (fifteen times in Proverbs); brotovs (brotos), mortal (all in Job); once ghgehvs (gegenes), earth-born, Jer. 32:20.
II. 'Ish. First occurrence in feminine, Gen. 2:23, 'ishah = woman. Therefore, 'ish = male, or husband; a man, in contrast with a woman. A great man in contrast with ordinary men (Ps. 49:2, where "low" are called the children of Adam, and the "high" = children of 'ish. So Ps. 62:9 and Isa. 2:9; 5:15; 31:8). When God is spoken of as man, it is 'ish (Ex. 15:3. So Josh. 5:13. Dan. 9:21; 10:5; 12:6, 7. Zech. 1:8, &c.). Also, in such expressions as "man of God", "man of understanding", &c. In the early chapters of Genesis we have it in chapters 3:33, 34 and 4:1.
Translated in Septuagint 1,083 times by ajnhvr (aner), Latin vir, and only 450 by anqrwpos (anthropos), Latin homo.
It is rendered "husband" sixty-nine times, "person" twelve times, and once or twice each in thirty-nine different ways.
III. 'Enosh. First occurrence Gen. 6:4, men of name. Always in a bad sense (Isa. 5:22; 45:14. Judg. 18:25). Morally = depraved, and physically = frail, weak. It is from 'anash, to be sick, wretched, weak, and denotes inability, for strength, physically; and for good, morally (cp. 2Sam. 12:15. Job 34:6. Jer. 15:18; 17:9; 30:12, 15. Mic. 1:9). Note the contrasts, Isa. 2:11 and 17, "The lofty looks of man ('Adam) shall be humbled, and the haughtiness of men ('Enosh) shall be bowed down" (Cp. Isa. 13:12. Job 25:6. Ps. 8:4; 90:3; 144:3. Job 4:17; 10:5; 7:17. Dan. 4:16). Other instructive passages are Isa. 8:1; 66:24. Ezek. 24:17 (afflicted, or mourners. Cp. Jer. 17:16, "day of man"). In 1Sam. 4:9 it is probably plural of 'Ish (so probably Gen. 18 and 19, where the indefinite plural must be interpreted by the context, because 'Adam would have denoted human, and 'Ish, males).
It is rendered "man" 518 times, "certain" eleven times, and once or twice each in twenty-four other and different ways.
IV. Geber. First occurrence in Gen. 6:4 (*1), mighty men, and denotes man in respect of his physical strength, as 'Enosh does in respect of the depravity of his nature. It is rendered "man" sixty-seven times, "mighty" twice, "man-child" once, "every one" once. In the Septuagint rendered fourteen times anqrwpos (anthropos) and the rest by ajnhvr (aner).
For illustrative passages see Ex. 10:11; 12:37. 1Sam. 16:18. 2Sam. 23:1. Num. 24:3, 15. 1Chron. 26:12; 28:1. 2Chron. 13:3. Ezra 4:21; 5:4, 10; 6:8.
V. Methim (plural) = adults as distinguished from children, and males as distinguished from females. Occurs Gen. 34:30. Deut. 2:34; 3:6; 4:27; 26:5; 28:62; 33:6. 1Chron. 16:19. Job 11:3, 11; 19:19; 22:15; 24:12; 31:31. Ps. 17:14; 26:4; 105:12. Isa. 3:25; 5:13; 41:14. Jer. 44:28.
(*1) In Gen. 6:4, we have three out of the above four words : "daughters of men" ( = daughters of [the man] 'Adam; "mighty men" = (geber); "men of renown" = Heb. men ('Enosh) of name, i.e. renowned for their moral depravity.
Maybe we can loo at the animals that were formed and the animals that were created and see if they are the same?????
Because I believe I just proved the men created are,,,, and is not the particlar man formed,, (Adam)
ChevyRodeo said:
GOd has a timeline and we cant just say why didnt God do this or that....
God didnt flood the whole world,,,,He only flooded the certain area,,,,the land where the adamics lived.....
and besides when Christ died he went all the way back to the days of Noah and preached and saved many people.........
And I have similar thoughts on the Genesis 1 vs. Genesis 2, . . . but only as it pertains in the metaphorical. I don't see them as exactly literal, and taking place just a few thousand years ago. However, it is clear that Genesis 1 and 2 are different, . . . not "retellings of the same story with more detail".
There is a theory that the people of Genesis 1 are those that are not Hebrew/Jewish, and Genesis 2 is begins the story OF the Hebrews. Hence people who were not under the Abrahamic laws. In fact, the Genesis 1 people may have been around for millions of years before God decided to make his Genesis 2 people, but that is [of course] pure speculation. . . . . . .as is all of this, for that matter. But for argument sake, it would make more sense for the story of "where Cain went and who he married".
There is a theory that the people of Genesis 1 are those that are not Hebrew/Jewish, and Genesis 2 is begins the story OF the Hebrews. Hence people who were not under the Abrahamic laws. In fact, the Genesis 1 people may have been around for millions of years before God decided to make his Genesis 2 people, but that is [of course] pure speculation. . . . . . .as is all of this, for that matter. But for argument sake, it would make more sense for the story of "where Cain went and who he married".
Orion said:
Me myself am not of the adamic line,,,,yea many believe that the non-adamics were around long before the adamics,,,,at least 2,000 years before.....Indeed not only did Cain find a wife,,,hes was also afraid because he knew it was other people out there......
13And Cain said unto the LORD, My punishment is greater than I can bear.
14Behold, thou hast driven me out this day from the face of the earth; and from thy face shall I be hid; and I shall be a fugitive and a vagabond in the earth; and it shall come to pass, that every one that findeth me shall slay me.
The way I see it,,,,,God formed Adam and Eve and as the adamics started to produce and grow satan attacked them/seduced them and polluted the bloodline to there was only one family left for the Christ to come through (Noah)
SO God had Noah gather all those animals (the same ones he formed for Adam) flooded the land and gave Noah a new start........I have done the measurements on the ark (its pretty simple) no way did that ark have all wild animals domestic and wild.....