The flood.

[(THE)]

I am a firm believer in a global flood.

1. If it was a local flood God could have just told Noah to move.

2. A global flood left evidence of Gods judgment a miracle would not.

3. Over 250 Flood legends from all parts of the world have been found. Most have similarities to the Genesis story.

4. Noah’s ark was built only to float, not to sail anywhere. Many ark scholars believe that the ark was a "barge" shape, not a pointed "boat" shape. This would greatly increase the cargo capacity. Scoffers have pointed out that the largest sailing ships were less than 300 feet because of the problem of twisting and flexing the boat. These ships had giant masts, and sails to catch the wind. Noah's ark needed neither of those and therefore had far less torsion related stress.

5. Even using the small 18-inch cubit (my height is 6-ft. 1-in. and I have a 21-in. cubit) the ark was large enough to hold all the required animals, people, and food with room to spare.

6. The length-to-width ratio of 6 to 1 is what shipbuilders today often use. This is the best ratio for stability in stormy weather. (God thinks of everything!)

7. Noah lived 950 years! Many Bible scholars believe the pre-Flood people were much larger than modern man. Skeletons over 11 feet tall have been found! If Noah were taller, his cubit (elbow to fingertip) would have been much larger also. This would make the ark larger by the same ratio.

8. God told Noah to bring two of each kind (seven of some), not of each species or variety. Noah had only two of the dog kind, which would include the wolves, coyotes, foxes, mutts, etc. The "kind" grouping is probably closer to our modern family division in taxonomy, and would greatly reduce the number of animals on the ark. Animals have diversified into many varieties in the last 4400 years since the Flood. This diversification is not anything similar to great claims that the evolutionists teach.

9. The top 3,000 feet of Mt. Everest (from 26,000-29,000 feet) is made up of sedimentary rock packed with seashells and other ocean-dwelling animals.

10. Bent rock layers, fossil graveyards, and poly-strata fossils are best explained by a Flood.

And many MANY more.

I think you have the flood of the first age mixed in with the flood of Noah.........

 

[Orion]

When, according to the canon, [then] did it happen?

I'm betting if you took the time to add up all the begats you'd get pretty darn close.

You see....I happen to believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God, so I don't care about figuring out the dates hoping to prove it's wrong. I have a simple faith....I believe there was a flood because the Bible tells me so.

I don't understand. Don't you want to know when such an important event took place? Take the time to do all the begats then and come up with a BC figure for when the flood took place. Why not?

 

[Orion]

I believe that according to the Bible the flood was about 4400+\- years ago.

Interestingly enough at that time there was a recorded human population bottle neck.

Source?

 

[glorydaz]

When, according to the canon, [then] did it happen?

I'm betting if you took the time to add up all the begats you'd get pretty darn close.

You see....I happen to believe the Bible is the inspired Word of God, so I don't care about figuring out the dates hoping to prove it's wrong. I have a simple faith....I believe there was a flood because the Bible tells me so.

I don't understand. Don't you want to know when such an important event took place? Take the time to do all the begats then and come up with a BC figure for when the flood took place. Why not?

It doesn't matter to me in the least when the flood took place.
I know why it took place and I know it did take place.
We can never argue someone into believing the Word of God....they either believe in our Lord Jesus Christ or they don't. If they don't, they question everything...even the fact that the Bible is the Word of God. Data and facts aren't what convicts the heart. Appealing to man's natural understanding is just a waste of good prayer time.

 

[Orion]

Wow. . . . . . well, okay. Thanks.

For me, it is important to test things to see if they are true. If the evidence fails to agree with a particular opinion, then I will gravitate towards what the evidence seems to suggest, and/or what it plainly shows. The "~4,400 years ago" thing can be answered with certain amount of reason.

It is ultimately everyone's own choice whether or not they choose to test a claim, . . . and they are free to do so. I just think a person's position is strengthened BY testing.

 

[Rick W]

Not much faith in something you can see and test.
But as a believer I accept evidence that a non-believer would reject. I see the fruits of accepting Christ. I see the good fruits, a non-believer will look at the bad people do when claiming to be Christian thinking Christians are not to be human anymore pointing accusing fingers as Satan will do during our judgment.
What one will accept as evidence will direct the search right from the beginning.

At the end of the day one must search inside to find the evidence of the necessity to accept Christ. If one believes there is no need for Christ then it ends there. If one feels there is no condemnation then there will opposition when scripture is preached concerning the sinful nature. Face it, Christ doesn't support the ego.

 

[Ottawan61350]

The Flood year was apx. 2347-46 BC. Lamech died 5 years prior to the flood and Arphaxad was born two years after. It's interesting stuff.

This was not the only flood of such a nature. If you read peters epistles two are discussed. The one in times of old all life perished (gone for good), Noah is not mentioned for that one. Also in Genesis 1:2 the word was should be translated "became" This is greatly substantiated by it's usage elsewhere and is even footnoted in the NIV bible, which honestly was a surprise to me. Maybe I'll come back here and edit. There are more verses in the bible to refer to.

2 Peter 1:2 Grace and peace be multiplied unto you through the knowledge of God, and of Jesus our Lord,

Ron

 

[Orion]

You don't see a problem with that time frame?

 

[researcher]

I'm sure there was a global flood. There were also unicorns, dragons, and satyrs back then too. lol

Isa 13:21 But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there.
Isa 13:22 And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and dragons in their pleasant palaces: and her time is near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged.

Job 39:9 Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?

Ham was probably black
Shem was probably tan (middle eastern)
Japheth was white

And someone had Asian and Indian (American and Eastern) babies and repopulated the world with all of the races. lol

 

[LaCrum]

9. The top 3,000 feet of Mt. Everest (from 26,000-29,000 feet) is made up of sedimentary rock packed with seashells and other ocean-dwelling animals.

Actually the reason that those things are there is because that mountain range consists of oceanic crust. When two plates of oceanic crusts collide, they push eachother upward to form mountain ranges such as the one that holds Mt. Everest. This unlike when oceanic crust hits continental crust, it sinks under it because it's denser.

 

[glorydaz]

I'm sure there was a global flood. There were also unicorns, dragons, and satyrs back then too. lol

Isa 13:21 But wild beasts of the desert shall lie there; and their houses shall be full of doleful creatures; and owls shall dwell there, and satyrs shall dance there.
Isa 13:22 And the wild beasts of the islands shall cry in their desolate houses, and dragons in their pleasant palaces: and her time is near to come, and her days shall not be prolonged.

Job 39:9 Will the unicorn be willing to serve thee, or abide by thy crib?

Ham was probably black
Shem was probably tan (middle eastern)
Japheth was white

And someone had Asian and Indian (American and Eastern) babies and repopulated the world with all of the races. lol

Sounds like the reasoning of the natural man.....but from some of your other posts, I don't think that's the case. God doesn't have feathers, either, but the flood is more than symbolic language. And, yes, adaptation to the environment and intermarriage can cause differences in skin color.

 

[glorydaz]

9. The top 3,000 feet of Mt. Everest (from 26,000-29,000 feet) is made up of sedimentary rock packed with seashells and other ocean-dwelling animals.

Actually the reason that those things are there is because that mountain range consists of oceanic crust. When two plates of oceanic crusts collide, they push eachother upward to form mountain ranges such as the one that holds Mt. Everest. This unlike when oceanic crust hits continental crust, it sinks under it because it's denser.

That doesn't mean there was no flood.

 

[Physicist]

First, lets deal with the scientific issue. There is NO credible scientific evidence for a universal flood four thousand years ago and overwhelming evidence that it did not happen. You have to presume that all modern physics, geology, meteorology, archeology and biology are wrong to believe otherwise. While contemporary television shows may have episodes on the Flood (often preceded by stories about Bigfoot or UFOs), no peer reviewed scientific literature supports such a claim.

Next, the tale violates common sense. One family is supposed to gather all the world's animals together on one boat they built themselves? Anybody who understands the first things about the diversity of species, animal husbandry, the size of the earth, and marine engineering knows how absurd such an exercise would be.

Thirdly, we know where the tale originated. There is an earlier version in the Epic of Gilgamesh and historians have traced chronologically intermediate versions between the two tales.

Acceptance of the tale as literally true is purely an exercise in blind faith over fact.

 

[Orion]

Right, Physicist. There are also such things as Chinese Emporers/Dynasties and Egyptian culture [including construction of the Giza pyramids], and other cultures that have unbroken history. And LaCrum is correct about the oceanic crust and the effects of plate tectonics.

 

[John]

First, lets deal with the scientific issue. There is NO credible scientific evidence for a universal flood four thousand years ago and overwhelming evidence that it did not happen. You have to presume that all modern physics, geology, meteorology, archeology and biology are wrong to believe otherwise. While contemporary television shows may have episodes on the Flood (often preceded by stories about Bigfoot or UFOs), no peer reviewed scientific literature supports such a claim.

You are in fact wrong but we have a science forum to discuss that in or you can just look at some cliff face and see the many layers of rock deposited by the flood that you don't believe in.

Next, the tale violates common sense. One family is supposed to gather all the world's animals together on one boat they built themselves? Anybody who understands the first things about the diversity of species, animal husbandry, the size of the earth, and marine engineering knows how absurd such an exercise would be.

Wrong again. The Bible says that God brought the animals to the ark.

Thirdly, we know where the tale originated. There is an earlier version in the Epic of Gilgamesh and historians have traced chronologically intermediate versions between the two tales.

SO what? there are hundreds of similar stories.

Acceptance of the tale as literally true is purely an exercise in blind faith over fact.

Some faith is blind however when it comes to the flood i think it takes a great deal of mental gymnastics to postulate that there was not a flood of global proportions.

Some good reading on the subject: The Genesis flood by John C Whitcomb and Henry M Morris and In the Beginning by Dr Walt Brown.

 

[Ed the Ned]

The Bible is not filled with half truths. If it was then it would afford man the oppotunity to create their faith around their own sinful desires. If the Bible said there was a flood, then there was one. If you refute the story based on mans understanding and scientific evidence, then you are claiming that God is a liar and that his Word is a lie. Why don't you face God today and say "God you have lied to me in your Word and it is totally useless to get anything out of your Word because I am not sure what are lies and what is truth." I am sure if you have committed yourself to Christ and God you will find this impossible to do. John made some interesting facts earlier in the thread, which should help some see the truth in the story.

 

[John]

The reason why evolutionists do not like the ideal of the flood is because the geologic time scale and the "fossil record" are their bible. Take away long time spans and the evolutionists look stupider so if the geology was formed during this great flood the evolutionists would have absolutely nothing to base the theory on.

A while ago people all over believed in the flood and that the earth was only around 6000+\- years old, then this guy came and said that the earth was much older then everyone thought (Hutton or Lyell I can't remember) And then another fella came along and said that the flood never happened and because the Christians at the time allowed this thinking to go unchecked Mr. Darwin came and devised his theory based upon a belief that the earth was old and the layers are each a different age.

The geologic time scale was conceived before any modern dating methods existed and yet the original evo-bible remains the same even today.. very interesting.

The rest of the story is history. Scientists all over the world were taught about the uniformatarian processes and never questioned them so now when the go looking for evidence what ever they find they think "eureka! evolution!" when in fact there is another interpretation that never even gets considered.... the fact that this world was over taken by a flood of global proportions that screwed up the real estate big time and created the "fossil record".

 

[glorydaz]

The Bible is not filled with half truths. If it was then it would afford man the oppotunity to create their faith around their own sinful desires. If the Bible said there was a flood, then there was one. If you refute the story based on mans understanding and scientific evidence, then you are claiming that God is a liar and that his Word is a lie. Why don't you face God today and say "God you have lied to me in your Word and it is totally useless to get anything out of your Word because I am not sure what are lies and what is truth." I am sure if you have committed yourself to Christ and God you will find this impossible to do. John made some interesting facts earlier in the thread, which should help some see the truth in the story.

Thank the Lord we still have Christians who believe the Word of God.
My heart rejoices at your words, brother. The Lord will, indeed, find faith when He returns.

 

[glorydaz]

The reason why evolutionists do not like the ideal of the flood is because the geologic time scale and the "fossil record" are their bible. Take away long time spans and the evolutionists look stupider so if the geology was formed during this great flood the evolutionists would have absolutely nothing to base the theory on.

A while ago people all over believed in the flood and that the earth was only around 6000+\- years old, then this guy came and said that the earth was much older then everyone thought (Hutton or Lyell I can't remember) And then another fella came along and said that the flood never happened and because the Christians at the time allowed this thinking to go unchecked Mr. Darwin came and devised his theory based upon a belief that the earth was old and the layers are each a different age.

The geologic time scale was around before any modern dating methods existed and yet the original evolution bible remains the same even today.. very interesting.

The rest of the story is history. Scientists all over the world were taught about the uniformatarian processes and never questioned them so now when the go looking for evidence what ever they find they think "eureka! evolution!" when in fact there is another interpretation that never even gets considered.... the fact that this world was over taken by a flood of global proportions that screwed up the real estate big time and created the "fossil record".

Amen...at one time they were convinced the world was flat, too.
Man is so proud of his own little bit of understanding....denying the power of his Creator and the Word He's given us.

 

[John]

Amen...at one time they were convinced the world was flat, too.
Man is so proud of his own little bit of understanding....denying the power of his Creator and the Word He's given us

Some people still think that. :rolling