Consider the Flood and Attributes of God

[Carry_Your_Name]

This statement of yours sums up the theology of many professing Christians. I started this thread to counter this viewpoint because it casts aspersions upon the holy, righteous, infinitely wise and infinitely powerful God whose perfection is such that He can never fail to accomplish that which He wills to perform, in exactly the way and timing He wills it be done.
Think for a moment: God loves you, knows you cannot swim, knows your impotence to save yourself, yet does nothing to jump in and actually pull you to safety. Instead, He throws you a lifeline to which you must swim or catch but can't. This is the scenario believed by many. God does all He can. The rest is up to you.

The Bible teaches of a God who is quite different. He takes matters into His own hands because He knows man is unable and unwilling to do anything to save himself. He sends a Savior before anyone. His Savior fully satisfied the just demands of a holy God. He paid in full the sin debt of all those who were given Him by the Father. They are freely given the gifts, via the Holy Spirit, needed to believe on Christ, as well as those needed to perform the tasks God had planned for them to accomplish. They, in turn, tell others of Jesus Christ who turned them from sin and Satan to love God and holiness.

However, many do not wish to hear the truth. Many refuse to believe God's saving grace is specific to those He loves. They refuse to believe that it is God's free will to choose who to love or not to love.... who to gift with saving grace and who not to gift with saving grace.

They refuse to believe grace is not owed anyone. Thus, no injustice is done when grace is withheld. However, justice, on the other hand, is owed all. Christ paid justice for His people, His chosen, His Elect, His bride. They will all be with God in Heaven. That is His promise, which cannot be broken (Romans 8:29:30).

The God of the bible hands out wedding invitations, that's God's free will; accepting or not that invitation is a personal choice, God didn't drag everybody to the wedding; dressing up for the wedding is a personal responsibility, to dress up in white robes - washed in the blood of the Lamb (Rev. 7:14), which symbolizes God's righteousness. This robe is not handed out freely like the invitation, but bought from Jesus (Rev. 3:18). For those who're not dressed in this robe, they're thrown out, therefore many are called, but few are chosen. Whatever you like to call it, man, the "rest" is the difference between being called and being chosen. The purpose of this is to rebuke the hateful, judgy caricature of God who condemns people to hell, which is not true, it's those people themselves who've made a hell out of heaven and a heaven out of hell.

 

[GodsGrace]

Please explain why you disagree with my first paragraph. Please use Scripture as your authority.

If you posted it,,,I'd be able to reply.

An excellent explanation of Genesis 6:6 is found here.

My entire post centers on the postulate that God saves all whom He loves and loses none, except those He does not love.

Then I'd say it's your postulate that I cannot agree with because it is not what the NT teaches.
God saves ANYONE that desires to be saved.
Since God loves all of humanity....
all of humanity has the opportunity to be saved.
John 3:16

If God saves all those that He loves....
does this mean that God loved them even when they were wicked?
The OT states that God hates the wicked.

Psalm 11:5 NASB
5 The LORD tests the righteous and the wicked, And the one who loves violence His soul hates.
Leviticus 20:23
23And you shall not walk in the customs of the nation that I am driving out before you, for they did all these things, and therefore I detested them.
Proverbs 16:5
5Everyone who is arrogant in heart is an abomination to the Lord; be assured, he will not go unpunished.

Your statement places an unbiblical distinction to God's love when the issue here concerns salvation. In effect, you are saying God loves His children enough to save them but does not love the rest of mankind enough to save them.

As is normal with the reformed....
you put the cart before the horse.

NO. I am not saying God loves His children enough to save them...

Here is what I'm saying again:
God loves all of humanity.
John 3:16

I'm stating that God has a special love for those that choose to worship and obey Him.
1 John 3:1
1 See how great a love the Father has bestowed on us, that we would be called children of God; and such we are. For this reason the world does not know us, because it did not know Him.
I'm stating that God is sorry that not all of His creation wants to be saved:
Matthew 23:37
37 "Jerusalem, Jerusalem, who kills the prophets and stones those who are sent to her! How often I wanted to gather your children together, the way a hen gathers her chicks under her wings, and you were unwilling.


Jesus' desire was to gather all of Jews in Jerusalem together....
But they were NOT WILLING.....not all of them desired to be gathered.

 

[GodsGrace]

The entire point of Christ's mission was to save lost sinners. He selflessly took on the form of a servant and endured all the malicious events leading up to His inhumane crucifixion because of His LOVE for His people, His family, His bride, who are worldwide (John 3:16). Christ, who cannot lie, stated He lost none (John 17:12), which was the will of the Father (John 6:39). Christ always obeys and prays the will of the Father (John 6:38; John 11:42; Luke 23:34).

Considering these truths, 1 Timothy 2:4, is not a contradiction: God desires/wills/decrees ALL His Elect people be saved, no matter what their class or status. God's decretive will cannot be thwarted (Dan 4:35).

Then I profer that we have a very weak God.

1 Tim 2:4 declares that God desires that all men be saved.
All men.
So why aren't they?
Is God not sovereign enough?

The reply might be that the word ELECT is NOT in 1 Tim 2:4....
You have added to scripture.

 

[GodsGrace]

Yes, God is just. That is why God could not allow man to escape justice with a simple, "I forgive you." Out of LOVE the Word agreed to take on the form of man and offer Himself a sacrifice for His Chosen.

Limited Atonement is not biblical icon.
Even many reformed theologians do not accept this teaching.

And "His chosen" is ANYONE that desires to be saved.
Acts 16:31 Paul declared.
31 They said, "Believe in the Lord Jesus, and you will be saved, you and your household."


It's good that you know about Jesus' ministry.
Here's what the Apostle John stated about it:
1 John 1:1-4
1 What was from the beginning, what we have heard, what we have seen with our eyes, what we have looked at and touched with our hands, concerning the Word of Life -
2 and the life was manifested, and we have seen and testify and proclaim to you the eternal life, which was with the Father and was manifested to us-
3 what we have seen and heard we proclaim to you also, so that you too may have fellowship with us; and indeed our fellowship is with the Father, and with His Son Jesus Christ.
4 These things we write, so that our joy may be made complete.

Christ's crucifixion has a double meaning: It denotes the LOVE of God for His Elect who will never suffer the punishment Christ experienced; one which they rightly deserved, while, on the other hand, it also denotes the horrendous, unspeakable punishment awaiting non-believers.

Then I'd have to say that God is a most unjust God.
Unless you explain cleary who the elect of God are.....

I ask all reformed persons this and never get a reply....
What is justice?

Jesus explains in John 15:16 that He is the one doing the choosing, not man.

Of course in John 15:16 Jesus is speaking to His Apostles.
Are You an Apostle? Then Jesus would have chosen you...
But since you are Not an Apostle...God gave to you the same opportunity to be saved
as He did to the rest of mankind.

What is justice?

The natural ability of man to obey and follow the will of God is a myth. This is why God must change the heart, nature and will of man through regeneration (Jeremiah 31:31 ff., Ezekiel 34;26 ff., John 3:3).

Of course God gives to man a new heart....how else would man be able to follow God?
This does Not mean the regeneration comes before salvation.
The problem here lies with the fact that you do not believe in free will.
It twists the word of God and makes no sense of it.

Being regenerated means to be made new.
Your statement says this:
A person must be made new before he can be made new...
or
A person must be born again before he can be born again.

Could you post some scripture that states this?

And putting verses in parenthesis - like the Confessions do - isn't really too helpful.
Please post the entire verse if you wish to continue with this discussion.

Of course not. Whoever would say such an inane thing? God sovereignly changes the stubborn will of His Elect so that they willingly come to Christ (John 3:8; John 6:44, 65).

I think you've discovered by now that I don't believe in compatibilist free will.

I believe in free will.