The Four Questions.....

[RND]

As part of the prison ministry I am apart of the mentor of our group that I am learning the ropes from asks all the new members of our group a series of four questions. I will not be asking all these questions all at once, but one question at a time. Enjoy. Here's the first question:

If your youngest child was murdered would you want mercy or justice for the perpetrator?

 

[follower of Christ]

Having the dual natures within me that all true believers have, Id have to say a bit of both depending on which of those natures you were asking.

My flesh would want revenge and far more than justice, I'm quite certain of that.
Hopefully the spirit inside would keep the flesh in check.

 

[RND]

Having the dual natures within me that all true believers have, Id have to say a bit of both depending on which of those natures you were asking.

My flesh would want revenge and far more than justice, I'm quite certain of that.
Hopefully the spirit inside would keep the flesh in check.

Thanks for your honest response. If I can I would ask if you consider revenge a form of justice? Carnal justice no doubt.

 

[Paidion]

"Justice" simply means "fairness". Justice and mercy are not opposites. A sentence can be both just and merciful.

 

[RND]

"Justice" simply means "fairness". Justice and mercy are not opposites. A sentence can be both just and merciful.

Justice and mercy are indeed opposites in the sense that one can certainly exclude the other. Justice can, and usually does, exclude any form of mercy. An example would be that you may get a traffic ticket for running a red light. In my state that's a $450.00 fine. Now, you may appeal to the judge by saying, "Guilty with an explanation." In which case you may explain to the judge the financial hardships you are under, and that you ran the red light knowingly because you were rushing your youngster to the doctor because he swallowed a poison. Justice demands that you pay the prescribed penalty for violating the law. Mercy is free to administer fairness because of doing right because it is right.

Sorry, Paidon but your assumption that justice and mercy are not opposites isn't rooted in any reality that I know of.

 

[cyberjosh]

Actually Padion is right in the sense that justice and mercy can have common purpose and goal, thus can work together, sometimes in succession other times in tandem. God's justice which was exacted for the payment of our sins bore in Jesus' body on the cross was done so that mercy may be worked in us. Hebrews also tells us that whom the Lord loves he disciplines, thus justice can get our attention in a way that many other things couldn't, and it could just be the thing that saves our soul (thus God's mercy on us). An example is what I heard a pastor say about a man he met during a visit to a prison, who said he was walking down the road of destruction in his life with his habits until he got thrown in jail and then God straightened him up and got his attention. And the inmate said that it was God's mercy that He allowed him to be thrown in prison because otherwise he would have continued down that path of destruction. He got saved in prison.

Now, while this man you speak of justly deserves the death penalty, and will probably receive it, this does not mean that he cannot be saved. The thief on the cross had no hope of living, yet he believed in Christ with his dying breaths.

Now as far a Biblical justice is concerned the Bible is quite clear:

"Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For in the image of God He made man" (Genesis 9:6)

"He who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be put to death" (Exodus 21:12)

"If a man takes the life of any human being, he shall surely be put to death" (Leviticus 24:17)

Jesus even said, "all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword" (Matthew 26:52)

Now Biblical justice is most likely due the man for his deed, but harboring a grudge or fomenting bitterness or hate against the man is also contrary to Biblical principles. The greatest achievement, and I'm not saying it would be easy - I have never been in such a situation, would be to forgive the man and do so in front of him. I can't remember where I heard it, but I once read a story of a woman in Africa whose sons had been murdered by a local, brutal (I presume military) man and when she worked up the heart to do it, she invited the man over to dinner and kissed the hands of her son's murderer, and said that she forgave him since there was nothing that could be done about it now and that the path of hate and bitterness is not the way of the Christian. The story shocked my socks off. That's what I call amazing testimony. Perhaps similar testimony would bring mercy to that man amidst a situation where justice will ultimately claim his life, yet show the hope and love of God in spite of man's hopelessness in the world. In short: there is hope beyond death.

I hope in some fashion this post has been helpful and/or clear enough to understand the points I was trying to make. If you have any questions, just ask.

God Bless,

~Josh

 

[RND]

Actually Padion is right in the sense that Justice and mercy can have common purpose and goal, thus can work together, sometimes in succession other times in tandem.

He said they "weren't opposites." But justice is not by act or even definition the "same thing." Justice can be done, and usually is, without any mercy.

God's justice exacted for the payment for our sins bore in Jesus' body, was done so mercy may be worked in us.

And yet, there is still justice to be paid from what you and I have earned...."the wages of sin...."

Hebrews also tells us that whom the Lord loves he disciplines, thus justice can get our attention in a way many other things couldn't and it could just be the thing that saves our live (thus God's mercy on us).

Discipline and justice are not the same thing either.

An example is what I heard a pastor tell me about a man he met in prison who said he was walking down the road of destruction until he got thrown in jail and God straightened him up and got his attention, and the inmate said that it was God's mercy that he was thrown in prison because otherwise he would have continued down that path of destruction. He got saved in prison.

God is wherever Satan is.

Now, while this man justly deserves the death penalty, and will probably receive it this does not mean that he cannot be saved. The thief on the cross had no hope of living, yet be believed in Christ with his dying breaths.

And He received both "justice" and "mercy."

Now as far a Biblical justice is concerned the Bible is quite clear:

"Whoever sheds man's blood, By man his blood shall be shed, For in the image of God He made man" (Genesis 9:6)

Wages of sin (justice). Gift of God (mercy).

"He who strikes a man so that he dies shall surely be put to death" (Exodus 21:12)

Wages of sin (justice). Gift of God (mercy).

"If a man takes the life of any human being, he shall surely be put to death" (Leviticus 24:17)

Wages of sin (justice). Gift of God (mercy).

Jesus even said, "all those who take up the sword shall perish by the sword" (Matthew 26:52)

Wages of sin (justice). Gift of God (mercy).

Now Biblical justice is most likely due the man for his deed, but harboring a grudge or fomenting bitterness or hate against the man is also contrary to Biblical principles. The greatest achievement, and I'm not saying it would be easy - I have never been in such a situation, would be to forgive the man and do so in front of him. I can't remember where I heard it, but I once read a story of a woman in Africa whose sons had been murdered by a local, brutal (I presume military) man and when she worked up the heart to do it she invited he man over to diner and kissed the hands of her son's murderer, and said that she forgave him since there was nothing that could be done about it now and that the path of hate and bitterness and hate is not the way of the Christian. The story shocked my socks off. That's what I call amazing testimony.

Satan knows we can only be forgiven based on our willingness to forgive.

I hope in some fashion this post has been helpful and/or clear enough to understand the points I was trying to make. If you have any questions, just ask.

Oh, by all means it was extremely helpful and insightful. But, I must disagree that "justice" and "mercy" are "not" opposites.

 

[cyberjosh]

And He received both "justice" and "mercy."

Precisely my point. I wasn't saying they were equivalent, only that they can on occasion work together for common purpose. I state this from a theological perspective, not necessarily from what man is capable of in governmental law.

Oh, by all means it was extremely helpful and insightful.

Well good.

But, I must disagree that "justice" and "mercy" are "not" opposites.

Well I wasn't saying they were equivalents. But I'm sure we would both agree that God is a God of both mercy and justice. And thank the Lord for His mercy! :amen

 

[cyberjosh]

Second, Third, and Fourth questions?

 

[RND]

Synonyms of mercy: forgiveness, indulgence, clemency, leniency, lenity, tenderness, mildness.

Synonyms of justice: amends, appeal, authority, authorization, charter, code, compensation, consideration, constitutionality, correction, credo, creed, decree, due process, equity, evenness, fair play, fair treatment, hearing, honesty, impartiality, integrity, judicatory, judicature, justness, law, legal process, legality, legalization, legitimacy, litigation, penalty, reasonableness, recompense, rectitude, redress, reparation, review, right, rule, sanction, sentence, square deal, truth. Note: revenge is personal and justice is societal

 

[RND]

Second, Third, and Fourth questions?

Coming up.....maybe in a week or so.

 

[RND]

And He received both "justice" and "mercy."

Precisely my point. I wasn't saying they were equivalent, only that they can on occasion work together for common purpose. I state this from a theological perspective, not necessarily from what man is capable of in governmental law.

Paidon said: "Justice and mercy are not opposites." Not only are they "opposites" they are not the same thing. Not even close. Now, you said Paidon was correct by embellishing that "justice and mercy" can have a common goal.

Justice is that "you should pay the full penalty" for your sins. That is justice. Mercy is having the Son of God, who was innocent take your penalty you deserved and dying in your place. On top of that He died for His enemies, while they were still His enemies.

But, I must disagree that "justice" and "mercy" are "not" opposites.

Well I wasn't saying they were equivalents. But I'm sure we would both agree that God is a God of both mercy and justice. And thank the Lord for His mercy! :amen

God's mercy has already been shown in the life of Christ......"forgive them Father for they know not what they do...."

 

[follower of Christ]

Having the dual natures within me that all true believers have, Id have to say a bit of both depending on which of those natures you were asking.

My flesh would want revenge and far more than justice, I'm quite certain of that.
Hopefully the spirit inside would keep the flesh in check.

Thanks for your honest response. If I can I would ask if you consider revenge a form of justice? Carnal justice no doubt.

Justice would seem to be a subjective term when man is allowed to dispense it.
Even judges rule differently on the same exact crime, so I suppose Im in no position to say what Justice is or isnt, but only that God is really the only final authority, so we ought to be looking to Him when passing judgment or looking for justice.

Not trying to dodge the question or anything. I just think its a bit more involved if we get beyond Gods version of 'justice' since man has all sorts of definitions for the word.

Do I think I ought to be getting revenge on someone ? Absolutely not.
Would my flesh drive me to do so if someone harmed my child or my wife. I cant promise that it wouldnt, right or wrong.

sorry if this seems evasive. Im trying to be honest. I know vengeance is the Lords, but I really cant say that if someone harmed my grandchild that Id be reciting scripture at that point, kwim ?

 

[AnnieHere]

"Justice" simply means "fairness". Justice and mercy are not opposites. A sentence can be both just and merciful.

Wisdom, Paidion

By administering justice in accordance with the crime committed will also be administering mercy to potential victims.

 

[RND]

Im trying to be honest.

Yes you are, and I appreciate your candid and honest response.

 

[RND]

Wisdom, Paidion

By administering justice in accordance with the crime committed will also be administering mercy to potential victims.

Is that to say that mercy can only be administered through justice?

 

[AnnieHere]

Wisdom, Paidion

By administering justice in accordance with the crime committed will also be administering mercy to potential victims.

Is that to say that mercy can only be administered through justice?

My response applies to the OP scenario, only. It does not necessarily imply what you suggest.

 

[RND]

Wisdom, Paidion

By administering justice in accordance with the crime committed will also be administering mercy to potential victims.

Is that to say that mercy can only be administered through justice?

My response applies to the OP scenario, only. It does not necessarily imply what you suggest.

The question asks, "if your youngest child was murdered would you want "mercy" of "justice" for the perpetrator? How exactly is administering justice (by whom) in accordance with the crime committed administering mercy to potential (sic) victims? Moreso, why would the "victims" care, they would be dead and in no need of administering justice?

For example, Jesus says if one has been angry with someone without cause then that is the equivalent of murder. I have been angry with people for no good reason.....so that makes me a murderer. How about you?

 

[GojuBrian]

My mother was murdered in 1997 by her husband of four months. He killed himself three days later.

I remember feeling complete rage against him. I wanted to do things to him you couldn't even imagine. I remember being so angry that no only did he take my mothers life, but he was too much of a coward to face what he had done. I felt there was no justice and I felt no mercy.

Was there justice? I think there was a certain form of justice, but I think it would have been better if he had stuck around and apologized. Maybe he could have been saved.
I feel sorry for him now, the anger has been gone for a several years.

 

[RND]

My mother was murdered in 1997 by her husband of four months. He killed himself three days later.

I remember feeling complete rage against him. I wanted to do things to him you couldn't even imagine. I remember being so angry that no only did he take my mothers life, but he was too much of a coward to face what he had done. I felt there was no justice and I felt no mercy.

Was there justice? I think there was a certain form of justice, but I think it would have been better if he had stuck around and apologized. Maybe he could have been saved.
I feel sorry for him now, the anger has been gone for a several years.

Wow, what an absolutely humbling and sobering story. I am convinced beyond measure that God understands what we go through; the flood of emotions, doubts, and thoughts that must seem to hit us like a ton of bricks in such tragic situations. I'm so sorry you lost your mom in such a way, but thank you for sharing. May the Lord continue to bless and keep you.