The Furnace Thread

[Edward]

An internal filter? What brand and model furnace do you have?

 

[TimothyW]

I'd be guessing why it was slipped out of it's slot? It's been in there a month? How dirty was it? The rule is; when in doubt, change it out. If it's not too dirty, maybe you can go 6 or 8 weeks between changes.

If you want to upgrade just a little bit, without breaking the bank, try one of these:

http://www.airfilterusa.com/residential/washable-furnace-filters/lifetime-electrostatic

I think they're only about 30 or 40 bucks. Anything similar to this. The key word here is "electrostatic". I think they're about 30 or 40% efficient, at rest. The way they work is that, they have some sort of space age material in them and when the blower comes on and air moves across it, it sets up an electrostatic charge across the filter, which acts like a dust magnet. These are sturdy (aluminum framed) and a lifetime filter. You just wash them out with the hose outside and a little dish-soap if you want. Let it dry in the sun for a few and put it back in. Take it with you when you move and put a fiberglass filter back in it. These are pretty good filters for the money and service life. But remember! It catches more dust...so it plugs up faster, keep it clean. Make a routine for it. I have a very similar filter, just a different brand is all.

That sounds good, the problem with the filter I'm using now is that it has a flimsy paperboard frame. The filter was not very dirty, just a small circle of dust where the duct lines up. This small amount of dust restricts the airflow enough to cause the furnace fan to bend the paper frame and the filter sits there bent half out of the frame.

(I like the words "space age material", I think I will buy one of those filters just to have something that might have been on Apollo 13! 2)

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Out here the gas company puts a seal on the meter ... One can get in a ton of trouble for breaking that seal...

Haven't you been paying attention in the Theology folders, Reba? Seals can not be broken.

 

[reba]

NOPE you are incorrect they were broken in the Revelation

 

[Jethro Bodine]

NOPE you are incorrect they were broken in the Revelation

Let's keep that our little secret. Okay?

 

[reba]

don't tell JLB

Back to splitting wood...

 

[Michael74]

An internal filter? What brand and model furnace do you have?

American Standard (Trane) Freedom 90 model # TXCO25C4HPB1

 

[Kathi]

Ruud furnaces started over 100 years ago by a man named Edwin Ruud. That's an old furnace!

 

[TimothyW]

What can you tell us about this kind of furnace?
Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 13:40-42 (ESV)

What were the furnaces like in Bible Times?

 

[Kathi]

What can you tell us about this kind of furnace?
Just as the weeds are gathered and burned with fire, so will it be at the end of the age. The Son of Man will send his angels, and they will gather out of his kingdom all causes of sin and all law-breakers, and throw them into the fiery furnace. In that place there will be weeping and gnashing of teeth. Matthew 13:40-42 (ESV)

What were the furnaces like in Bible Times?

I don't think they had furnaces in Bible times.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

I don't think they had furnaces in Bible times.

Wrong.

Trane--Nebuchadnezzar 7 Model.
In the heating business it's called the Neb 7 for short.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Hey Edward what type/model furnace is this?
(Warning: This clip is rated PG13)

 

[Edward]

American Standard (Trane) Freedom 90 model # TXCO25C4HPB1...

My furnace guy said that there is a second filter inside my furnace that only qualified maintenance personnel should clean. (It requires partial disassembly of the furnace to reach.) The filter outside the furnace is easy to clean/change regularly. How often should we call the maintenance guy for the internal filter?

You have me very curious about this. I'm very familiar with all of Tranes equipment, and fairly familiar with AS products, and this does not ring any bells for me. An internal filter which is hard to get to. That almost doesn't make sense. Filters are important and should be easily accessible for cleaning. We're probably looking at one of two things, either the man lied to you and wants the work, or, it is there and a PITB to get to because engineers don't work in the field so don't always make things as easy to disassemble as it should be... A couple things...

Do you know that the filter that we're talking about...is an air filter?
Is your furnace a downflow furnace? (The blower is on top of the burner compartment)
Do you have an EAC? (Electronic Air Cleaner)
Do you know where in the furnace this filter is located? (did he takr off the door and point it out, to show you, it's there...I have to remove this and that to get to it etc..)

Will you take the burner door compartment door off of the furnace and stand back a bit and take a picture of the unit, so I can see the installation?

I'm also thinking that you may have an EAC, and it is installed in such a way that it appears to be part of the unit itself. (They're usually installed right up against the blower compartment, and can appear to be a part of the unit, though it's really separate).

 

[Jethro Bodine]

An internal filter which is hard to get to. That almost doesn't make sense. Filters are important and should be easily accessible for cleaning.

Not if the PVC drain line is blocking it .

 

[Edward]

Not if the PVC drain line is blocking it .

That's in the code. I forget the section number but it goes like this...All condensate drainage lines shall be installed in such a manner that is makes accessibility to components harder than typical, and shall restrict free access to the unit doors to inhibit removal, and if possible in a location which is likely to make the homeowner trip and fall over it.

Right there in the code book, see?

 

[Edward]

That sounds good, the problem with the filter I'm using now is that it has a flimsy paperboard frame. The filter was not very dirty, just a small circle of dust where the duct lines up. This small amount of dust restricts the airflow enough to cause the furnace fan to bend the paper frame and the filter sits there bent half out of the frame.

(I like the words "space age material", I think I will buy one of those filters just to have something that might have been on Apollo 13! 2)

The cardboard framed filters do tend to be moved under air pressure unless the have a good frame. The electrostatic filters, having an aluminum frame stay put a lot better. Having the filter stay in place up against the air flow hole is important, because we don't want some air to bypass the filter and recirculate the dust or deposit it on the heat exchanger or A/C coil.

Nothing wrong with cutting a short pc of 2X4 to wedge between the filter corner and the blower housing to ensure the filter remains in place.

 

[Jethro Bodine]

That's in the code. I forget the section number but it goes like this...All condensate drainage lines shall be installed in such a manner that is makes accessibility to components harder than typical, and shall restrict free access to the unit doors to inhibit removal, and if possible in a location which is likely to make the homeowner trip and fall over it.

Right there in the code book, see?

Yeah, it's the one code installers seem to know all too well.

 

[Edward]

Ruud furnaces started over 100 years ago by a man named Edwin Ruud. That's an old furnace!

That, is a water heater! It's amazing that you could come up with that picture! We had that water heater when I was a kid! Or one very similar to it at least. My dad is a Master plumber and has his own business back in Ohio. This water heater has no tank, it contains a big roll of copper pipe inside it which the water circulates through. It is essentially, the first, 'On Demand' HWH. Instantaneous they used to call it. There's a flow switch in it somewhere and when someone turns on the water, it turns it on and heats the water as it circulates through it.

He got it used somewhere and took it all apart in the driveway and fixed it up and restored it and installed it in our house. Painted it black. He may have even replaced the copper tubing in it, I dunno. That is a cool looking water heater!

 

[Kathi]

That, is a water heater! It's amazing that you could come up with that picture! We had that water heater when I was a kid! Or one very similar to it at least. My dad is a Master plumber and has his own business back in Ohio. This water heater has no tank, it contains a big roll of copper pipe inside it which the water circulates through. It is essentially, the first, 'On Demand' HWH. Instantaneous they used to call it. There's a flow switch in it somewhere and when someone turns on the water, it turns it on and heats the water as it circulates through it.

He got it used somewhere and took it all apart in the driveway and fixed it up and restored it and installed it in our house. Painted it black. He may have even replaced the copper tubing in it, I dunno. That is a cool looking water heater!

That is cool

 

[Michael74]

Do you know that the filter that we're talking about...is an air filter?
Is your furnace a downflow furnace? (The blower is on top of the burner compartment)
Do you have an EAC? (Electronic Air Cleaner)
Do you know where in the furnace this filter is located? (did he takr off the door and point it out, to show you, it's there...

The fan is below. The external air filter is a 16 by 24 by 1 that easily slides out of the slot for cleaning/replacement..

The furnace guy talked to my family, who relayed the message to me. Maybe the message got mixed up somehow. The next time I call the furnace guy to tune up the furnace/AC unit I should probably be there myself to ask questions. I've taken the door off, and peered into the unit before, but could not find an internal filter. However, I don't want to disassemble it in winter to peer inside. I don't have that much confidence in my HVAC skills. Maybe in the spring, when its not so critical that the unit stay on-line constantly.

Thank you Edward.