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Desire to be a vessel of honor unto the Lord Jesus Christ?
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https://christianforums.net/threads/a-vessel-of-honor.110278/
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Taking the time to pray? Christ is the answer in times of need
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Depending upon the Holy Spirit for all you do?
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How are famous preachers sometimes effected by sin?
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The Genealogy of the Antichrist
- Thread starter JM
- Start date
R
reznwerks
Guest
JM said:
No.
W
WMD
Guest
JM said:
I know I am late on this one, but how can you explain the geneology of someone, if you dont even know who that person is?
Vic C.
Member
If it is a person, it can be traced. Has anyone even done one of those maze puzzles? Want to know the easiest way to do them? Start from the end and go backwards. 8-)WMD said:
Who is the prototype antichrist? ("Its" name is metioned in both the OT and NT) My advice is to start at Ezekiel 38:2. Magog is son to Japheth; I am in agreement with most of those who are of the PreWrath camp and believe Antichrist is of the Japhetic lineage.
Robert VanKampen, author of the book, "The Sign", utilized his resources in ancestry and came up with something of interest; Hitler is believed to come from that very bloodline. :o
Could he be anti-christ, or one leading up to anti-christ? He sure fits the discription; great military leader, able to "influence" the masses, lineage that leads back to the nomadic Jepheth and his offspring. (Gen 10:2
and 1 Chronicles 1:5) Oh, lets not forget the fatal wound to the head.
Check this out; this is interesting...
http://thechristianbbs.com/cgi-bin/ulti ... 2;t=002351
A
Aharon
Guest
Some think that the Antichrist will come from the tribe of Dan, since it is not included in the sealing of the 144,000 Jews in Revelation. I see no reasonable argument for this, however, nor do I think that God would exclude an entire tribe for the birth of a single (albeit especially evil) man.
~Aharon--
What prototype Antichrist? I will point out that in Daniel 11:36-39 the Antichrist is said to be different from his fathers and have different beliefs, so the argument that one of his ancestors was like him does not seem correct. Besides, why should there be a prototype Antichrist?
What does Magog have to do with the Antichrist? All it is to me is Russia.
I simply do not see why the Antichrist needs to have an ancestry of similarity to himself.
~Aharon--
Vic C.
Member
My belief is that since antichrist and everything he/it does will be some sort of counterfiet action of things of God then it's reasonable to say that since geneology was important in determining the line in which Christ comes from, so it should be the same for Anti-christ.
Sorry for the run-on sentence.
T
teleoisis
Guest
The origin of the anti-Christ in my opinion is revealed in Daniel 9:26.
The Zealots set fire to the Temple rather than have the Romans capture it. Titus tried to have the fire put out but in all the confusion and noise no one listened to him. In the end, the Romans pulled down the Temple thusly destroying it as they also did the city's gates and much of the rest.
So the anti-Christ is Roman in origin. And as the Romans used other European nationalities within their army, most notably Germans, the actual lineage does not have to be Italian, but I disagree with Van Kampen's take on Hitler. I think Hitler certainly qualifies for one of the five fallen "heads" and will be judged to the Lake of Fire - but he has died and still we don't have a Temple for the abomination to be set in yet.
I would look for a European leader like Javier Solana to "force" or "prevail" (confirm) a peace treaty (covenant) ostensibly with Israel (since Jerusalem is one of two foci for Gabriel's prophetic message spelling out the final timeline for this age) and the many nations that have an interest in that Holy Land. Javier Solana is the current architect to the "Roadmap" which forced the evacuation of Jews by the Israeli army from the Gaza Strip.
Mark T.
- The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary.
The Zealots set fire to the Temple rather than have the Romans capture it. Titus tried to have the fire put out but in all the confusion and noise no one listened to him. In the end, the Romans pulled down the Temple thusly destroying it as they also did the city's gates and much of the rest.
So the anti-Christ is Roman in origin. And as the Romans used other European nationalities within their army, most notably Germans, the actual lineage does not have to be Italian, but I disagree with Van Kampen's take on Hitler. I think Hitler certainly qualifies for one of the five fallen "heads" and will be judged to the Lake of Fire - but he has died and still we don't have a Temple for the abomination to be set in yet.
I would look for a European leader like Javier Solana to "force" or "prevail" (confirm) a peace treaty (covenant) ostensibly with Israel (since Jerusalem is one of two foci for Gabriel's prophetic message spelling out the final timeline for this age) and the many nations that have an interest in that Holy Land. Javier Solana is the current architect to the "Roadmap" which forced the evacuation of Jews by the Israeli army from the Gaza Strip.
Mark T.
Mark, you're not completely wrong in your basic direction,
you just have the 'architect' details wrong.
Just recently I stumbled over who actually initiated this
road map in its very beginning:
"In the early 1990's representatives of Israel and the
Palestinians were invited to a secret meeting in London,
during which it was decided to try secret negotiations in
Oslo, Norway. The Israelis were represented by Yitzchak Rabin,
and the Palestinians were represented by King Hussein of
Jordan (both 33rd degree masons). The third party at that
meeting was Lord Victor Mischcon (also a 33rd degree mason),
and personal attorney for Prince Charles."
you just have the 'architect' details wrong.
Just recently I stumbled over who actually initiated this
road map in its very beginning:
"In the early 1990's representatives of Israel and the
Palestinians were invited to a secret meeting in London,
during which it was decided to try secret negotiations in
Oslo, Norway. The Israelis were represented by Yitzchak Rabin,
and the Palestinians were represented by King Hussein of
Jordan (both 33rd degree masons). The third party at that
meeting was Lord Victor Mischcon (also a 33rd degree mason),
and personal attorney for Prince Charles."
T
teleoisis
Guest
Yes, there are other movers and shakers here, which is why I don't like playing pin the tail on the anti-Christ and only said “like†Javier Solana.
I understand there are reasons to suspect the bonny Prince Charles and I am certainly dubious of any involvement of the Masonic order - witness the design of Israel's Supreme Court building for some real deviltry at foot - and I think we ought to watch in earnest and with an open mind for who the sixth "head" will be.
We might be able to discern him when the treaty (covenant) is signed. I am looking for a document in which the architect prevails upon the parties signing it and so forces it through (in keeping with the Hebrew meaning of gabar which is mostly rendered as confirm in translation).
If that is not apparent, the next indication we might see is the attempted assassination and/or wound (which is not necessarily a "head wound" but merely that the man {as the head} will be wounded) which would normally be fatal but is not (false death). This world leader then recovers (false resurrection) and the world marvels at him (false worship).
The final straw will be when this would-be the false Christ, through the False Prophet, has an image of him erected for in the re-built Jewish Temple in Jerusalem which has the power to speak. This would be the great Abomination Daniel 9:27 speaks of in the same vein as the previous abomination Antiochus IV Epiphanes set up during the previous sixty-two 'sevens' back in 168 B.C. of Daniel 11:31.
If we're around long enough, we'll know for certain which beast of a man this anti-Christ is for sure.
Mark T.
I understand there are reasons to suspect the bonny Prince Charles and I am certainly dubious of any involvement of the Masonic order - witness the design of Israel's Supreme Court building for some real deviltry at foot - and I think we ought to watch in earnest and with an open mind for who the sixth "head" will be.
We might be able to discern him when the treaty (covenant) is signed. I am looking for a document in which the architect prevails upon the parties signing it and so forces it through (in keeping with the Hebrew meaning of gabar which is mostly rendered as confirm in translation).
If that is not apparent, the next indication we might see is the attempted assassination and/or wound (which is not necessarily a "head wound" but merely that the man {as the head} will be wounded) which would normally be fatal but is not (false death). This world leader then recovers (false resurrection) and the world marvels at him (false worship).
The final straw will be when this would-be the false Christ, through the False Prophet, has an image of him erected for in the re-built Jewish Temple in Jerusalem which has the power to speak. This would be the great Abomination Daniel 9:27 speaks of in the same vein as the previous abomination Antiochus IV Epiphanes set up during the previous sixty-two 'sevens' back in 168 B.C. of Daniel 11:31.
If we're around long enough, we'll know for certain which beast of a man this anti-Christ is for sure.
Mark T.
Yes, we're around long enough. Before the document can get confirmed,
we'll see something the newly elect Olmert calls plans for 'final borders'.
Olmert said the final borders of Israel will be finalized within 10 years,
but that was pre-election talk. I wouldn't be surprised if they'll start
with the West Bank withdrawal very soon. Possibly real soon.
And dividing of Jerusalem is in the making too, if I read this correctly:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic ... E_ID=49426
we'll see something the newly elect Olmert calls plans for 'final borders'.
Olmert said the final borders of Israel will be finalized within 10 years,
but that was pre-election talk. I wouldn't be surprised if they'll start
with the West Bank withdrawal very soon. Possibly real soon.
And dividing of Jerusalem is in the making too, if I read this correctly:
http://www.worldnetdaily.com/news/artic ... E_ID=49426
A
ArtGuy
Guest
Here's a pretty exhaustive article on the Antichrist.
Vic C.
Member
Thanks Art...ArtGuy said:
The author(s) there at wikipedia make a strong case against trying to use numerology to determine antichrist. I have stressed many times how important it is to NOT use this method for determining antichrist. Instead, it should be used to confirm in tthe anti-christ prophecies.
I'm still somewhat convinced that lineage plays a part in who or what this antichrist might be.
LOL, look at some of these predictions:
George Steinbrenner, Sam Walton, Michael Jackson, Curtis "50 Cent" Jackson, Nelson Mandela, Justin Timberlake, William Hung??? LMBO!
A
ArtGuy
Guest
vic said:
Even in that case, it may be difficult. Gematria is more art than science, so for any given name, there are many equally valid means of determining the numerical value. Add in the fact that the number of beast might not even be 666, based on recent findings, and it's a bit of a crapshoot.
My money's on William Hung, though. The fact that he became famous just reeks of demonic influence.
:
M
Mattw
Guest
On the planet today which country or countries combine politics with religion? Isn't the antichrist associated with a religous leader/prophet? Don't you find this odd? Also, where do we see leaders that speak like a dragon?
The answer is Islam. Islam mixes politics with religion. The leader of Iran spreaks like a dragon. So the antichrist is Muslim. We don't know his name at this time.
How does a Muslim take over the world? Since this antichrist Muslim is diverse from the other horns/kings on the planet, that seems to imply that he might be a Muslim UN official.
Why do the other kings on the planet give their power to the UN? We know that massive armies are swept away before the antichrist. We also know that three horns are plucked out before the antichrist. This seems to imply that the massive armies belong to the three horns (America, Russia and China).
Imagine the shock and crisis that the rest of the world will be in after this great war (4th Seal) that destroys 1/4 of the world's population. It will be the slick talking Muslim official (antichrist) that helps them through this unimaginable crisis.
The answer is Islam. Islam mixes politics with religion. The leader of Iran spreaks like a dragon. So the antichrist is Muslim. We don't know his name at this time.
How does a Muslim take over the world? Since this antichrist Muslim is diverse from the other horns/kings on the planet, that seems to imply that he might be a Muslim UN official.
Why do the other kings on the planet give their power to the UN? We know that massive armies are swept away before the antichrist. We also know that three horns are plucked out before the antichrist. This seems to imply that the massive armies belong to the three horns (America, Russia and China).
Imagine the shock and crisis that the rest of the world will be in after this great war (4th Seal) that destroys 1/4 of the world's population. It will be the slick talking Muslim official (antichrist) that helps them through this unimaginable crisis.
T
teleoisis
Guest
I think we can firmly establish the anti-Christ as being Roman or European in origin. I also think the reference to Land with the False Prophet may establish this person as originating in Israel. Together they are in concert and together they will be captured alive at Armageddon and together they will be the first two thrown into the Lake of Fire. They are the only two that actually are thrown in alive and suffer both deaths at the same time.
The ruler who will come originates from the people who destroy the city and the sanctuary. That happened in A.D. 70. While the Zealots initially set fire to the Temple so it wouldn't fall into Roman hands intact, it was the Romans who ultimately tore it down and disassembled the bulk of Jerusalem as well. These people were European (and not just Italian).
While most translation versions use "uproot" to describe the action the little horn takes against three of the ten horns in Daniel 7:8, that word in the Hebrew is not the gardening term we think it is. This word comes from 'aqar and it's secondary meaning is to hamstring.
shapat is rendered as subdue in Daniel 7:24. In answer to the initial vision where the three horns were "hamstrung," shapat is used to describe the process of being 'aqar. shapat means to govern or judge. While someone being governed or judged is 'subject' (like a King's subjects versus citizens) and can be said to have been subdued under this new ruler; we must remember the ten kings are not in opposition to the little horn.
This refers us back to Revelation where the formation of the ten is described as well as their relationship to the anti-Christ.
Revelation 17:12 describes the ten kings not as being ten existing nations but as ten rulers who receive power for one hour. This could aptly describe the formation of a federated state which is ruled over by a council of ten ministers much like the EU is constituted.
Revelation 17:13 describes these ten ministers (or Kings or horns) as being in tune with the anti-Christ or little horn. The ten are also opposed to the Lamb; they are aligned with the anti-Christ.
Taking 'aqar as hamstrung along with shapat which describes ruling, we can paint a picture of a Machiavellian politician who rises from the ranks and only comes to the forefront late in the game. He is hidden so to speak. This lines up with the picture Daniel 8:23 paints of him as a master of intrigue.
So while the anti-Christ has an army at his disposal, the process Daniel describes for his ascension is not one of war amongst his own kind. Rather, he is Roman, or European in origin and would as the head of the Roman beast command all of it eventually against other enemies, most notably the King of the South and at the end battle, the King of the East.
So I think you're a little off here to say the fourth Seal unleashes a great war. There are several wars we can chronicle in the one 'seven.' One is war between North and South - the Jerusalem campaign which happens at the time of the midpoint. Another is the Jehoshaphat campaign which is associated with the Day of the Lord. Finally there is the Armageddon campaign which ends the one 'seven.' Indeed, Gabriel said wars would continue until the end in Daniel 9:26, but for you to say the fourth Seal contains a great war - well war is only one part of its mission and there are plenty of wars going on right now.
Mark T.
That would go against Daniel 9:26.Mattw said:
The ruler who will come originates from the people who destroy the city and the sanctuary. That happened in A.D. 70. While the Zealots initially set fire to the Temple so it wouldn't fall into Roman hands intact, it was the Romans who ultimately tore it down and disassembled the bulk of Jerusalem as well. These people were European (and not just Italian).
The point about the three horns being "plucked out" needs to be examined.Mattw said:
While most translation versions use "uproot" to describe the action the little horn takes against three of the ten horns in Daniel 7:8, that word in the Hebrew is not the gardening term we think it is. This word comes from 'aqar and it's secondary meaning is to hamstring.
shapat is rendered as subdue in Daniel 7:24. In answer to the initial vision where the three horns were "hamstrung," shapat is used to describe the process of being 'aqar. shapat means to govern or judge. While someone being governed or judged is 'subject' (like a King's subjects versus citizens) and can be said to have been subdued under this new ruler; we must remember the ten kings are not in opposition to the little horn.
This refers us back to Revelation where the formation of the ten is described as well as their relationship to the anti-Christ.
Revelation 17:12 describes the ten kings not as being ten existing nations but as ten rulers who receive power for one hour. This could aptly describe the formation of a federated state which is ruled over by a council of ten ministers much like the EU is constituted.
Revelation 17:13 describes these ten ministers (or Kings or horns) as being in tune with the anti-Christ or little horn. The ten are also opposed to the Lamb; they are aligned with the anti-Christ.
Taking 'aqar as hamstrung along with shapat which describes ruling, we can paint a picture of a Machiavellian politician who rises from the ranks and only comes to the forefront late in the game. He is hidden so to speak. This lines up with the picture Daniel 8:23 paints of him as a master of intrigue.
So while the anti-Christ has an army at his disposal, the process Daniel describes for his ascension is not one of war amongst his own kind. Rather, he is Roman, or European in origin and would as the head of the Roman beast command all of it eventually against other enemies, most notably the King of the South and at the end battle, the King of the East.
The spirit released in the fourth Seal is given power over one quarter. While it does employ the sword, there is also famine and plague. The living creature which calls them out is like an eagle, and one of the attributes of the eagle is power, but another is swiftness. This force which envelopes a quarter of the earth is powerful and comes on quickly. We are seeing the rapid advance of new cross-over diseases from animals. Truly, after thousands of years of civilization, we are once again being killed by wild animals.Mattw said:
So I think you're a little off here to say the fourth Seal unleashes a great war. There are several wars we can chronicle in the one 'seven.' One is war between North and South - the Jerusalem campaign which happens at the time of the midpoint. Another is the Jehoshaphat campaign which is associated with the Day of the Lord. Finally there is the Armageddon campaign which ends the one 'seven.' Indeed, Gabriel said wars would continue until the end in Daniel 9:26, but for you to say the fourth Seal contains a great war - well war is only one part of its mission and there are plenty of wars going on right now.
Mark T.
T
teleoisis
Guest
Islam plays a very important role in the end-times.Mattw said:
Islam is a false religion straight from the pits of Hell and its author is Satan.
But Islam is also at war with the West. It has targeted the U.S., Russia, and the E.U. in recent years. The West's response has been to go out and wage war in its territory: Afghanistan and Iraq.
If you look on a globe, you'll see that America, Russia and the European Union make up a band of nations encircling the northern half of the Northern Hemisphere. This is also directly north of Jerusalem.
If you look at the globe from North Africa to the Middle East, along the southern edge of Asia (where Muslims are vying with Hindus) to the corner of Southeast Asia, you can see a band of nations that have Islam directly or indirectly influencing their countries. (India is one exception.)
This Islam band is to the south of Jerusalem.
I think the King of the North represents the combined might of the countries which derive their economies, culture, and religion from Rome.
I think the King of the South represents the combined might of all the various factions of Islam which even in its moderate wing is still diametrically opposed the secular world of the West.
So Islam has a very decisive role to play and the present War on Terror shows how it has altered the entire world stage. And we're not even in the one 'seven' yet.
Mark T.
M
Mattw
Guest
Don't think that a Muslim antichrist violates Daniel 9:26. Perhaps you were thinking of a different verse.
Daniel 9:26 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
NIV at IBS International Bible Society NIV at Zondervan Zondervan
26 After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. [a] The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.
Footnotes:
1. Daniel 9:26 Or off and will have no one ; or off, but not for himself
In reference to the 3 horns being plucked out. This does not mean that all people will die in these countries. There will be nuclear war that kills many. Many more will die after this because of famine and disease that is caused by the war. Others will die by wild animal as they go out searching for food.
Daniel 9:26 (New International Version)
New International Version (NIV)
Copyright © 1973, 1978, 1984 by International Bible Society
NIV at IBS International Bible Society NIV at Zondervan Zondervan
26 After the sixty-two 'sevens,' the Anointed One will be cut off and will have nothing. [a] The people of the ruler who will come will destroy the city and the sanctuary. The end will come like a flood: War will continue until the end, and desolations have been decreed.
Footnotes:
1. Daniel 9:26 Or off and will have no one ; or off, but not for himself
In reference to the 3 horns being plucked out. This does not mean that all people will die in these countries. There will be nuclear war that kills many. Many more will die after this because of famine and disease that is caused by the war. Others will die by wild animal as they go out searching for food.