The Gift Ministries

[jeremiah1five]

Ephesians 4:7-11 (KJV)
7 But unto every one of us is given grace according to the measure of the gift of Christ.
8 Wherefore he saith, When he ascended up on high, he led captivity captive, and gave gifts unto men.
9 (Now that he ascended, what is it but that he also descended first into the lower parts of the earth?
10 He that descended is the same also that ascended up far above all heavens, that he might fill all things.)
11 And he gave some, apostles; and some, prophets; and some, evangelists; and some, pastors and teachers;

In Ephesians verse 11 are listed the Gift Ministries, also known as the Five-Fold Ministry. It is as Jesus said, that the Holy Spirit could not come until He departed, and when He departed it says above that He gave some (not all) apostles, prophets, evangelists, pastors, and teachers.

John 16:7 (KJV)
7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

But let's talk about Jesus.

Jesus was Apostle:
Hebrews 3:1 (KJV)
1 Wherefore, holy brethren, partakers of the heavenly calling, consider the Apostle and High Priest of our profession, Christ Jesus;

Jesus was Prophet:
John 4:19 (KJV)
19 The woman saith unto him, Sir, I perceive that thou art a prophet.

Jesus was Evangelist:
Matthew 4:17 (KJV)
17 From that time Jesus began to preach, and to say, Repent: for the kingdom of heaven is at hand.

Jesus was Pastor:
John 10:11 (KJV)
11 I am the good shepherd: the good shepherd giveth his life for the sheep.

Jesus was Teacher:
John 3:2 (KJV)
2 The same came to Jesus by night, and said unto him, Rabbi, we know that thou art a teacher come from God: for no man can do these miracles that thou doest, except God be with him.

We know that in the New Testament, Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 12 that believers made up and constituted what he likened to as a body.
A body that had many part and functions and that Christians were members of that body. We also know that in the Old Testament are many anthropomorphisms which (is a literary device that can be defined as a technique in which a writer ascribes human traits, ambitions, emotions, or entire behaviors to animals, non-human beings, natural phenomena, or objects) and in this case, to God (who is Spirit).
One example is that God's Salvation is ascribed the anthropomorphism of an arm:

Isaiah 53:1 (KJV)
1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
and...
Isaiah 52:10 (KJV)
10 The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.

We know that the hand in Scripture represents service, or service rendered. The hand has five digits or fingers. And we know that these five Gift Ministries of apostle, prophet, evangelist, pastor, and teacher are represented by each of the five fingers or digits of the hand of God.
The thumb represents the apostle. The index or pointing finger represents the prophet. The middle or long finger represents the evangelist, the ring finger represents the pastor. The little or pinky finger represents the teacher. As Christ is the One who holds title to all five of these ministries (and more) and that as He ascended the Holy Spirit descended as is the Promised Gift to those in the Body of Christ, and that these five Gift Ministries are the expression of Christ in His people, they are the Life of Christ in His people through His indwelling in the believer, and that to deny the existence and expression of these five Gift Ministries in the people of God is to deny the Life of Christ in His Church. And we also so that to deny Christ is ......well, you know.

John 5:39 (KJV)
39 Search the scriptures; for in them ye think ye have eternal life: and they are they which testify of me.

 

[stovebolts]

This is a very good post, thank you for sharing.

For deeper reflection, have you juxtaposed the left arm of God with the right arm of God? I'd like to hear more from you on this. I like how you articulated this.

 

[jeremiah1five]

This is a very good post, thank you for sharing.

For deeper reflection, have you juxtaposed the left arm of God with the right arm of God? I'd like to hear more from you on this. I like how you articulated this.

Stove, I'm not good at receiving compliments when I post the Word of God, so I'll at least say, "Thanks," and then turn and give God the praise for your reception.
As for the left and the right, I'll have to get back to you on that. That's an excellent question.

 

[stovebolts]

Stove, I'm not good at receiving compliments when I post the Word of God, so I'll at least say, "Thanks," and then turn and give God the praise for your reception.
As for the left and the right, I'll have to get back to you on that. That's an excellent question.

It's in line with the wind from the East, and the wind from the West. Btw, look up the Hebrew word for wind in the Torah and it will make more since.

Enjoy!

 

[jeremiah1five]

It's in line with the wind from the East, and the wind from the West. Btw, look up the Hebrew word for wind in the Torah and it will make more since.

Enjoy!

In that case....



<------- Pvt. Wackadoodle, SIR!

 

[stovebolts]

Stove, I'm not good at receiving compliments when I post the Word of God, so I'll at least say, "Thanks," and then turn and give God the praise for your reception.
As for the left and the right, I'll have to get back to you on that. That's an excellent question.

It's in line with the wind from the East, and the wind from the West. Btw, look up the Hebrew word for wind in the Torah and it will make more since.

Enjoy!

In that case....



<------- Pvt. Wackadoodle, SIR!

Ha, if you were a wackadoodle, you would have been banned lol.

I dont know if I'm trying to connect something that shouldnt be connected or not, but I like to have fun with the scriptures at times. Nothing set in stone.

The 4 winds represent Gods activity in the world. Wind and Spirit are intertwined and often, both the Hebrew and Greek have the same word which is translated into english as either Wind or Spirit.

The East wind brings about heat, dryness, lack of rain and denotes Gods judgment while the west wind brings about cooler weather, rains to water the crops and denotes Gods blessing.
Looking to the north, east is on your right and west is on your left.

When you look at the right hand of God, like the East Wind, it denotes his strength and might and is always within the context of victory over the enemy.

Things to ponder...

 

[jeremiah1five]

It's in line with the wind from the East, and the wind from the West. Btw, look up the Hebrew word for wind in the Torah and it will make more since.

Enjoy!

Ha, if you were a wackadoodle, you would have been banned lol.

I dont know if I'm trying to connect something that shouldnt be connected or not, but I like to have fun with the scriptures at times. Nothing set in stone.

The 4 winds represent Gods activity in the world. Wind and Spirit are intertwined and often, both the Hebrew and Greek have the same word which is translated into english as either Wind or Spirit.

The East wind brings about heat, dryness, lack of rain and denotes Gods judgment while the west wind brings about cooler weather, rains to water the crops and denotes Gods blessing.
Looking to the north, east is on your right and west is on your left.

When you look at the right hand of God, like the East Wind, it denotes his strength and might and is always within the context of victory over the enemy.

Things to ponder...

Excellent.
I shall.


Even topography is important to interpretation...sea level and such:

"Jesus went UP to..."

"Jesus went DOWN to...."


SIR!

 

[Jim Parker]

to deny the existence and expression of these five Gift Ministries in the people of God is to deny the Life of Christ in His Church.

What about the other gifts?
1Co 12:4-11
There are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
There are differences of ministries, but the same Lord.
And there are diversities of activities, but it is the same God who works all in all.
But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:
for to one is given the word of wisdom through the Spirit,
to another the word of knowledge through the same Spirit,
to another faith by the same Spirit,
to another gifts of healings by the same Spirit,
to another the working of miracles,
to another prophecy,
to another discerning of spirits,
to another different kinds of tongues,
to another the interpretation of tongues.
But one and the same Spirit works all these things, distributing to each one individually as He wills.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Hello James.
First, the Apostle Paul is writing to believers in Covenant with God at Corinth:

1 Corinthians 1:1-3 (KJV)
1 Paul, called to be an apostle of Jesus Christ through the will of God, and Sosthenes our brother,
2 Unto the church of God which is at Corinth, to them that are sanctified in Christ Jesus, called [to be] saints, with all that in every place call upon the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, both theirs and ours:
3 Grace [be] unto you, and peace, from God our Father, and from the Lord Jesus Christ.

As I said, the Scripture is written by God TO and FOR His Covenant people ONLY.
Paul is NOT addressing the unsaved world, thus this letter cannot be applied to them.

1 Corinthians 12:1-11 (KJV)
1 Now concerning spiritual [gifts], brethren, I would not have you ignorant.
2 Ye know that ye were Gentiles, carried away unto these dumb idols, even as ye were led.
3 Wherefore I give you to understand, that no man speaking by the Spirit of God calleth Jesus accursed: and that no man can say that Jesus is the Lord, but by the Holy Ghost.
***Paul's first guidance is for these Christians to not be ignorant.
Greek Word: ἀγνοέω Transliteration: agnoeō - meaning, not to know (through lack of information or intelligence); by implication to ignore (through disinclination).
Next, he is writing to Gentile Christians (not that there were not any Hebrew or "Jews" in this fellowship - there were), and as Gentiles, there were idols and idol-worship in these Roman Provinces (Romans had hundreds of idols they worshipped.) For them in their pre-Christian life, their lord was Caesar and only Caesar, and to say anyone else was their lord was treason to their leader. It was practical, not spiritual.

4 Now there are diversities of gifts, but the same Spirit.
*** "diversities" - Greek Word: διαίρεσις Transliteration: diairesis, meaning, a distinction or (concrete) variety.
*** "gifts" - Greek Word: χάρισμα Transliteration: charisma, meaning, gratuity, i.e. deliverance (from danger or passion); (special) a (spiritual) endowment, i.e. (subject) religious qualification, or (objective) miraculous faculty
*** "spirit" - Greek Word: πνεῦμα Transliteration: pneuma, meaning, a current of air, i.e. breath (blast) or a breeze; by analogy or figurative a spirit, i.e. (human) the rational soul, (by implication) vital principle, mental disposition, etc., or (superhuman) an angel, dæmon, or (divine) God, Christ's spirit, the Holy Spirit. NOTE: from this Greek word we get the English "pneuma" such as in "pneumatic tire" on a vehicle.
[James, take note at the definition of mental disposition. I will draw your attention to this later and elsewhere.]

5 And there are differences of administrations, but the same Lord.
*** "differences" - is the same Greek word in verse 4 "diversities" - Greek Word: διαίρεσις Transliteration: diairesis.
*** "administrations" Greek Word: διακονία Transliteration: diakonia. [from this root word ("diakonos") we get the English for "deacon."
*** "lord" - Greek Word: κύριος Transliteration: kyrios, meaning, from kuros (supremacy); supreme in authority, i.e. (as noun) controller; by implication Mr. (as a respectful title)

6 And there are diversities of operations, but it is the same God which worketh all in all.
*** "diversities" - same Greek word as in verse 4 and 5 - Greek Word: διαίρεσις Transliteration: diairesis.
*** "operations" - Greek Word: ἐνέργημα Transliteration: energēma, meaning, derived from (energeo); an effect.
*** "God" - Greek Word: θεός Transliteration: theos, meaning, a deity, especially (with [Strong's Greek #3588] (ho)) the supreme Divinity; figurative a magistrate.
[Note: From this word we get the English in compound: theos-ology, or theology and its cognates. Also take a closer look. See the Trinity? Spirit or Holy Spirit. Lord, as in the Lord Jesus. God, as in the Father. All three of the God-head (Father, Son, Holy Spirit) are involved in these gifts.]

7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal.
*** "manifestation" - Greek Word: συμφέρω Transliteration: sympherō, meaning, to bear together (contribute), i.e. (literal) to collect, or (figurative) to conduce; especially (neuter participle as noun) advantage .
*** "profit withal" [two English words but one Greek word] - It is the same Greek word as above translated "manifestation" συμφέρω / sympherō.

8 For to one is given by the Spirit the word of wisdom; to another the word of knowledge by the same Spirit;
9 To another faith by the same Spirit; to another the gifts of healing by the same Spirit;
10 To another the working of miracles; to another prophecy; to another discerning of spirits; to another divers kinds of tongues; to another the interpretation of tongues:
11 But all these worketh that one and the selfsame Spirit, dividing to every man severally as he will.

These gifts ["charisma"] are all the expressions of Christ in His people. Three sets of three.

the word of wisdom
the word of knowledge
faith
gifts of healing
working of miracles
prophecy
discerning of spirits
tongues
interpretation of tongues.

[Jesus] Christ possessed and operated in all nine, plus the several listed in Romans 12:4-6.
Did I answer your question?

 

[Jim Parker]

Greek Word: διαίρεσις

Yes. I had Greek in seminary too.

[Jesus] Christ possessed and operated in all nine, plus the several listed in Romans 12:4-6.
Did I answer your question?

Not really. But I don't think I was clear.
The "5-fold" ministry was given to the leadership of the church "for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ—from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. (Eph 4:12-16)
The gifts of the Spirit were given to the people.
1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:

So those are two sets of gifting for two sets of people within the church. (With overlap.)

Yes?

 

[jeremiah1five]

Yes. I had Greek in seminary too.

Not really. But I don't think I was clear.
The "5-fold" ministry was given to the leadership of the church "for the equipping of the saints for the work of ministry, for the edifying of the body of Christ, till we all come to the unity of the faith and of the knowledge of the Son of God, to a perfect man, to the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ; that we should no longer be children, tossed to and fro and carried about with every wind of doctrine, by the trickery of men, in the cunning craftiness of deceitful plotting, but, speaking the truth in love, may grow up in all things into Him who is the head—Christ—from whom the whole body, joined and knit together by what every joint supplies, according to the effective working by which every part does its share, causes growth of the body for the edifying of itself in love. (Eph 4:12-16)
The gifts of the Spirit were given to the people.
1Co 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to each one for the profit of all:

So those are two sets of gifting for two sets of people within the church. (With overlap.)

Yes?

This ministry wasn't given to the 'leadership.' When Christ saves someone they are not in a church, they are not in leadership. From the time Paul was called on the Road to when the Holy Spirit sent him out was about 14-17 years.
I didn't have seminary.
I am from the wilderness.
Homegrown.
The gifts of the Spirit were given to whoever God wanted to have a certain gift or gifts.

 

[Jim Parker]

This ministry wasn't given to the 'leadership.'

A "pastor" is a leader.

When Christ saves someone they are not in a church,

When someone is saved they become part of the body of Christ.
Gal 3:27
For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

The body of Christ is the Church.
1Co 12:27
Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.
Col 1:18
And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
Eph 1:22-23
And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.
Eph 5:30-32
For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

I am from the wilderness. Homegrown.

All the apostles were taught by someone, whether by Jesus himself or by others. Paul was taught by Gamaliel, the leading Biblical scholar of his day, and then, after he had been filled with the Holy Spirit, he saw that all the OT taught about Christ. I believe that being taught by someone well versed in the scriptures is the proper path to follow. It was how the apostles learned and the example of how we should learn

Paul said as much: And the things that you have heard from me among many witnesses, commit these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. (2Ti 2:2)
That refers to Paul teaching Timothy who is to teach faithful men who will then teach others.

"Self-taught" tends to be fraught with pitfalls.

 

[jeremiah1five]

A "pastor" is a leader.

When someone is saved they become part of the body of Christ.
Gal 3:27
For as many of you as were baptized into Christ have put on Christ.

The body of Christ is the Church.
1Co 12:27
Now you are the body of Christ, and members individually.
Col 1:18
And He is the head of the body, the church, who is the beginning, the firstborn from the dead, that in all things He may have the preeminence.
Eph 1:22-23
And He put all things under His feet, and gave Him to be head over all things to the church, which is His body, the fullness of Him who fills all in all.
Eph 5:30-32
For we are members of His body, of His flesh and of His bones. “For this reason a man shall leave his father and mother and be joined to his wife, and the two shall become one flesh.” This is a great mystery, but I speak concerning Christ and the church.

All the apostles were taught by someone, whether by Jesus himself or by others. Paul was taught by Gamaliel, the leading Biblical scholar of his day, and then, after he had been filled with the Holy Spirit, he saw that all the OT taught about Christ. I believe that being taught by someone well versed in the scriptures is the proper path to follow. It was how the apostles learned and the example of how we should learn

Paul said as much: And the things that you have heard from me among many witnesses, commit these to faithful men who will be able to teach others also. (2Ti 2:2)
That refers to Paul teaching Timothy who is to teach faithful men who will then teach others.

"Self-taught" tends to be fraught with pitfalls.

I was discipled. I lived with my teacher. The Biblical way.
John was a priest. He, too, was at some point taught by men. But God took him to the wilderness and really taught him. The same is what God did to me. I come from the wilderness, as Christ did. Christ was a Rabbi and was taught by men, as well. But there came a time when He and John and myself put away childish things and became a man.
Once I grew up and learned how to study and given my call, later revealed my spiritual gifts then the Lord took me out under the anointing and raised me the rest of the way. The Biblical way.

When a person is first saved they are not in leadership. They MUST be discipled - the way Jesus did it. I lived with my teacher, I slept with my teacher, I ate with my teacher, I slept with my teacher, I passed bowel with my teacher, I traveled with my teacher...I can go on, but the point is I was taught by the Holy Spirit from day one. Sure, God used men, but when it was time God raised me and is still raising me. When I reach my measure of faith he will take me home.
And I began in Trinity.

Tell me...what neophyte is automatically propelled to leadership in a true Biblical Church?
NONE.

 

[Tessa]

Jeremiah1five
What exactly do you mean by 'I began in Trinity. I don't understand that.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Jeremiah1five
What exactly do you mean by 'I began in Trinity. I don't understand that.

Hello Tessa.
Thank you for asking.
Consider the Trinity. God the Father, God the Son, God the Holy Spirit. That's all there is. We know Scripture says "God is Light, and there is no darkness in Him at all" (1 Jn. 1:5), so if I were to ask you to close your eyes and imagine God most say that they see a point of light or blazing light in the center of their view. However, that 'point of light' is surrounded by darkness or blackness. Now, we cannot fathom it but before God created anything it was just Him, Trinity, and nothing else.

It was here, in Trinity that God contemplated us, His Elect, in His Mind and He contemplated His Elect as holy, righteous, sinless - and "saved' for there is no sin in God, there is no death in God. That is the ONLY way He can contemplate His Elect. However, God is Spirit and our contemplation in His Mind are 'souls' without a body (but God sees us as having bodies, hidden in Christ and already with Him, but the reality is - we have no bodies.) Thus, to begin, God 'writes' all our names, those whom He contemplated in a 'book' of life [of the lamb slain...] and then sets forth to create the realm in which He can bring those names into a body in order to bring about His plan for these Elect 'souls' He contemplated, and He creates 'heaven,' earth, and man. God knows the end from the beginning because He's ordained the end. From Alpha to Omega, A to Z, it is a completed plan and a done deal. From the Eternal perspective of God, we are already with Him, in bodies and everything is over. Everything. But, from our perspective in TIME (the realm He created to bring about His plan,) we must go through an expiration of TIME, day by day, month by month, decade by decade, to get to that point in which we are already there with Him in Trinity - and with new bodies, bodies that can exist with Him in all His full power and glory - but hidden in Christ (who is also Spirit).

We, the Elect, may be contemplated in His Mind as holy and sinless, but Scripture says there is only One God, there is none like Him, and He gives His glory to no one. This means to me that man/Adam would have to have been created sinful, or as Strong defines the word "missing the mark" [think archery].
What is the "mark?"
The glory of God (or the glory that is God.)
Sinlessness is a Deific Attribute of God. It is His Nature, sinlessness is His Attribute and He cannot reduplicate, share, transfer, or give that glory of Himself to anyone. It belongs solely to Him (and the Son and the Spirit). IF man/Adam was created holy or sinless - or has been put forward here - with a potential to sin, that consideration cannot withstand the Word of God and reason for Scripture says unequivocally that man sinned in the Garden by disobeying God and eating from the Tree of the KNOWLEDGE of Good and Evil after God commanded His not to do that with a "Thou shalt not."

Genesis 2:17 (KJV)
17 But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, THOU SHALT NOT eat of it: for in the day that thou eatest thereof thou shalt surely die.

In Romans, Paul teaches that it is the existence of a "thou shalt not" that reveals we are sinners before we sin. I make no distinction between the Law of God and the Command of God for the Law(s) of God are His Commands, and the Commands of God are Law, as some try to say that the Law came later and that 'where there is no law there is no sin.' but think about it. There are two Hebrew words in the creation narrative of Genesis which are attributed to God in His creative acts - one is used that says God created something out of nothing (the universe), the other is that God created something out of something (the dust of the ground: man). The translated English words are "create," "made," and "formed." So, if God created man out of something God had created prior (dust of the ground), there is no way man/Adam was created sinless for that would mean God reduplicated, shared, gave His glory to someone: man, and if man/Adam was created sinless and he sinned, this means that sin can come from sinlessness or holy. The question I apply to that argument is, "God is sinless, God is Holy; how long before God Himself sin since 'you' believe sin comes from holy?" But man/Adam was not created sinless as the last Adam proves this: Christ was holy, Christ was sinless and He did no sin.

Paul says:

Romans 7:7 (KJV)
7 What shall we say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known lust, except the law had said, Thou shalt not covet.

Applying that to the man (Adam)...

ADAM: "What shall I say then? Is the law sin? God forbid. Nay, I had not known sin, but by the law: for I had not known disobedience, except the law/command had said, Thou shalt not [eat of it.]

Sin comes from sinner, sin does not come from sinlessness. The last Adam proved this. Man/Adam sinned because he was created sinner ("missing the mark"), he is not a sinner because he sinned.

Now, having resolved the 'make-up' of the man/Adam in creation Scripture says that God breathed into the nostrils of man and man became a living soul. God didn't place or give the Holy Spirit in the man, He only animated the man - I hold that God in this breath breathed His Elect into the loins of man in order to be born into the world at the appointed TIME, and born again at the appointed TIME.
If Christ was Spirit in Trinity, then so were we when God contemplated His Elect in Trinity. If Scripture says God 'prepared' a body for the Son (Heb. 10:5), it is reasonable to also say God prepared bodies to go with those names in the book of life of the lamb slain...
and that all God is doing in TIME is preparing bodies to go with those names in the book of life of the lamb slain from [BEFORE] the foundation (creation) of the world (Rev. 13:8.)
Yet, our bodies are carnal, sinful, and subject to death. But once we are born again and the TIME comes our bodies will be changed in the twinkle-twinkle of an eye and corruption will put on incorruption and of this changed body by God, and when all is said and done and the thousand years are completed God will receive us back into Trinity, hidden in Christ, and with bodies that can acclimate to God's powerful, unmatched, full-force of His Presence where we will be with God forever. When we are born again we are given the Holy Spirit in a measured anointing for if God shows up in His full glory we will definitely die on the spot for our present bodies cannot 'take on' God in His Fulness. We must be changed!
And the change will be similar to the body Christ now has.

Pretty long, but did I explain adequately and answer your excellent question?

 

[Tessa]

Hello Jeremiah1five
Thank you for taking such trouble to answer as you did. Yes that is a very clear answer.
It does make me think though that the saved when they receive their new bodies would still be sinful, because there is only God who is sinless. So how does that work out to ensure there is no sin in heaven? I don't want to sin especially in heaven.
The rest of what you said in your post I understand and agree with.

 

[jeremiah1five]

Hello Jeremiah1five
Thank you for taking such trouble to answer as you did. Yes that is a very clear answer.
It does make me think though that the saved when they receive their new bodies would still be sinful, because there is only God who is sinless. So how does that work out to ensure there is no sin in heaven? I don't want to sin especially in heaven.
The rest of what you said in your post I understand and agree with.

Paul says in Romans we are still in this body of this death (Rom. 7:24).
You can call me "jer" or "jere" or "jeremiah."

 

[Tessa]

Thank you jeremiah.

 

[for_his_glory]

We know that in the New Testament, Paul taught in 1 Corinthians 12 that believers made up and constituted what he likened to as a body.
A body that had many part and functions and that Christians were members of that body. We also know that in the Old Testament are many anthropomorphisms which (is a literary device that can be defined as a technique in which a writer ascribes human traits, ambitions, emotions, or entire behaviors to animals, non-human beings, natural phenomena, or objects) and in this case, to God (who is Spirit).
One example is that God's Salvation is ascribed the anthropomorphism of an arm:

Isaiah 53:1 (KJV)
1 Who hath believed our report? and to whom is the arm of the LORD revealed?
and...
Isaiah 52:10 (KJV)
10 The LORD hath made bare his holy arm in the eyes of all the nations; and all the ends of the earth shall see the salvation of our God.

You mention only the arm of the Lord and describe it to anthropomorphism, but neglect to whom this arm is by reading the full context of Isaiah chapter 53. It is Christ Jesus who is the arm of God before the foundation of the world that has ascended up to heaven as he is seated at the right hand (five fold ministry) of God and makes intersession for all who will come to Him.

It is Jesus that is the body, vine, root and foundation, John 14:1-8 that is our faith and salvation, Ephesians 2:8. We being part of His collective body through the Spiritual rebirth, John 3:5-7; Romans 10:9, 10, being indwelled with the Holy Spirit are His church/Bride. It is through the hand of God through the arm (Christ Jesus) of God and by His Holy Spirit that gives all He chooses that only He knows that are ready to receive the gifts that make up His five fold ministry here on earth.

The kingdom of God is within the true believer, Luke 17:21, and when you read 1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. What is given to every one who are Christ own are those gifts mentioned in verses 8-11, but those gifts in Ephesians 4:11 do not make up two different sets of gifts, but that which God only to some, not all, as this is God's hand being the five fold ministry within the leadership of the body of Christ.

 

[jeremiah1five]

You mention only the arm of the Lord and describe it to anthropomorphism, but neglect to whom this arm is by reading the full context of Isaiah chapter 53. It is Christ Jesus who is the arm of God before the foundation of the world that has ascended up to heaven as he is seated at the right hand (five fold ministry) of God and makes intersession for all who will come to Him.

It is Jesus that is the body, vine, root and foundation, John 14:1-8 that is our faith and salvation, Ephesians 2:8. We being part of His collective body through the Spiritual rebirth, John 3:5-7; Romans 10:9, 10, being indwelled with the Holy Spirit are His church/Bride. It is through the hand of God through the arm (Christ Jesus) of God and by His Holy Spirit that gives all He chooses that only He knows that are ready to receive the gifts that make up His five fold ministry here on earth.

The kingdom of God is within the true believer, Luke 17:21, and when you read 1 Corinthians 12:7 But the manifestation of the Spirit is given to every man to profit withal. What is given to every one who are Christ own are those gifts mentioned in verses 8-11, but those gifts in Ephesians 4:11 do not make up two different sets of gifts, but that which God only to some, not all, as this is God's hand being the five fold ministry within the leadership of the body of Christ.

for_his_glory, the "arm" of the Lord is not Jesus Christ. It is a metaphor. It is anthropomorphism, it is spiritualizing. One can't be a "right hand" of the Lord and an "arm." That would be a funky-looking body. The arm is salvation. And it cost God - figuratively speaking - an arm to accomplish it. Many say "salvation is free," or the "free gift of God..." etc., but it is not free. It cost someone dearly to do this for God's people.

The Scripture - the Old an New Testament - was written by God the Holy Spirit and given TO and FOR God's Covenant people ONLY.

Read it in this context and come to the knowledge of the truth.

Words like "all" "every" "world" and words like it MUST be read and taken in context to this truth: God's Word is TO and FOR God's Covenant people. Taking "all" to mean every human born is a misapplication of the Word. "All" does not mean every human born.