The Gift Of Tounges.

[Blazin Bones]

Actually, the Bible itself says that every one spoke one language up until the Tower of Babel. I never said it had anything to do with babeling at all.
What many believe is that until this point, we spoke the same language as God and that's what is suggested to be the heavenly tounge. After God punished the people by confusing their language, it's suggested that God removed the angelic tounge from the ones spoken on the earth.

As for my arguement, It's not weak at all. If God only communicates with us in Our languages thenwhat makes that aspect of God better than us. I believe in a God who is greater than me in all that I do. If he only speaks in our languages, what happened to God being a God of Order? That does not present an all powerful God. That presents a God that can only communicate with us in our language, or "on our terms". That's not the God you or I serve, or am I mistaken? God's Blessings. 8-)

 

[Eve777]

There is no such thing as heavenly prayer language, that is a lie of Satan.

Then you are saying that everyone that has been baptized in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues is living a lie and is in the grip of Satan?...Whole churches as a matter of fact. Is this your final word on this? Are you sure you want to dismiss this so lightly. Every idle word from our mouths will someday have to be accounted for.

Matt 12:36

But I say unto you, That every idle word that men shall speak, they shall give account thereof in the day of judgment. KJV

It is a lie of Satan but he has lied to you, Henry. Do you want to stand before God and tell him that you believe and tell others that his Gift of the Holy Spirit is a lie of the Devil?

 

[Nikki]

[quote="Frodo B.":68a7b]The Gift of Tongues was specigically given to the early church and it was not a senseless babble whihc so many people think that it is today. We see clearly in scripture that it was a spoken languege, God gave the ability to speak in a forieng tongue to the early believers so they could pread his gospel to people of all tongues. This gift doesn't exist any more.

What christain are doing today that they call tongues and sounds like sensless babble is nothing more than that. Senseless babble. Do you undertsand what it means (the person useing the 'tongues')? No? Of course not, and neither does God.

I, my opinion, would not make such a blanket statement and go as far as to say the Gift of tounges does not exist anymore, but I agree that it's become very rare to see someone with the real gift and not a cheap knock off version. I do agree that many christians claim to have the gift of tounges but in fact are just mumbling. I will not agree, that all Christians are like this.

As I've said before, I've witnessed actual tounges, and I actually believe I have a video of a pastor refuting someone for speaking in tounges out of tern, not for speaking in false tounges. This is a tough issue, I'll agree to that, but I don't think the gift is gone. I also feel that the more we claim it is gone, the more we are stopping those with the gift from growing in their gift because they are afraid of the ridicule it will bring them. God's Blessings.[/quote:68a7b]

My friend is Pentacostal and I remember I used to go to church with her. I, against my parents will, got baptised at her church one night when visiting. I was about 13. My parents were FURIOUS. The church eventually taught me to lie to my parents so that I could go to church (BIG warning sign right there). I'll never forget the night that I was baptised that EVERYONE was lashing all over the place, and "speaking in tongues". The said that I spoke in tongues, but I honestly believe that it was satan or else the fact that everyone else was doing it that i just did it (fake of course). You know how they say that liars eventually believe their own lies? I guess that how it was. Who knows.

Because of that experience, speaking in tongues scares me. I was sinning so bad when I was involved with that church. Eventually my parents were able to get the people to leave me alone and stop calling the house. Then they started attending a Wesleyan church and making me go with them and all was well from then on.

 

[Eve777]

You had a bad expericence and I am sorry but don't let that keep you from the greatest gift God had to give you. NO I am not talking about tongues but the baptism in the Holy Spirit. You will speak in tongues when the spirt enters into your body but it will not be the gift of tongues. It will be a private prayer language between you and God.

Read the following scriptures very closely. The Holy Spirit "falls" upon you. It is something others can see and hear and one even offered to pay money for the ability to lay hands on people and have them recieve.


14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the aword• of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then they laid their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

18 And when Simon saw that through alaying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

19 Saying, Give me also this apower, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the agift of God may be purchased with money.


This is conversion. Peter was not converted until the Upper room. See another Post I did on that in answer to someone's question.

 

[Blazin Bones]

[quote="Frodo B.":3cd24]The Gift of Tongues was specigically given to the early church and it was not a senseless babble whihc so many people think that it is today. We see clearly in scripture that it was a spoken languege, God gave the ability to speak in a forieng tongue to the early believers so they could pread his gospel to people of all tongues. This gift doesn't exist any more.

What christain are doing today that they call tongues and sounds like sensless babble is nothing more than that. Senseless babble. Do you undertsand what it means (the person useing the 'tongues')? No? Of course not, and neither does God.

I, my opinion, would not make such a blanket statement and go as far as to say the Gift of tounges does not exist anymore, but I agree that it's become very rare to see someone with the real gift and not a cheap knock off version. I do agree that many christians claim to have the gift of tounges but in fact are just mumbling. I will not agree, that all Christians are like this.

As I've said before, I've witnessed actual tounges, and I actually believe I have a video of a pastor refuting someone for speaking in tounges out of tern, not for speaking in false tounges. This is a tough issue, I'll agree to that, but I don't think the gift is gone. I also feel that the more we claim it is gone, the more we are stopping those with the gift from growing in their gift because they are afraid of the ridicule it will bring them. God's Blessings.

My friend is Pentacostal and I remember I used to go to church with her. I, against my parents will, got baptised at her church one night when visiting. I was about 13. My parents were FURIOUS. The church eventually taught me to lie to my parents so that I could go to church (BIG warning sign right there). I'll never forget the night that I was baptised that EVERYONE was lashing all over the place, and "speaking in tongues". The said that I spoke in tongues, but I honestly believe that it was satan or else the fact that everyone else was doing it that i just did it (fake of course). You know how they say that liars eventually believe their own lies? I guess that how it was. Who knows.

Because of that experience, speaking in tongues scares me. I was sinning so bad when I was involved with that church. Eventually my parents were able to get the people to leave me alone and stop calling the house. Then they started attending a Wesleyan church and making me go with them and all was well from then on.[/quote:3cd24]

I've experienced the fake tounges as well. It's a thing that's hard to determine which kind of tounges it is. Thanks for the story Nikki 8-)

 

[Rose of Sharon]

You had a bad expericence and I am sorry but don't let that keep you from the greatest gift God had to give you. NO I am not talking about tongues but the baptism in the Holy Spirit. You will speak in tongues when the spirt enters into your body but it will not be the gift of tongues. It will be a private prayer language between you and God.

Read the following scriptures very closely. The Holy Spirit "falls" upon you. It is something others can see and hear and one even offered to pay money for the ability to lay hands on people and have them recieve.


14 Now when the apostles which were at Jerusalem heard that Samaria had received the aword• of God, they sent unto them Peter and John:

15 Who, when they were come down, prayed for them, that they might receive the Holy Ghost:

16 (For as yet he was fallen upon none of them: only they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus.)

17 Then they laid their hands on them, and they received the Holy Ghost.

18 And when Simon saw that through alaying on of the apostles’ hands the Holy Ghost was given, he offered them money,

19 Saying, Give me also this apower, that on whomsoever I lay hands, he may receive the Holy Ghost.

20 But Peter said unto him, Thy money perish with thee, because thou hast thought that the agift of God may be purchased with money.


This is conversion. Peter was not converted until the Upper room. See another Post I did on that in answer to someone's question.

~~~~~~~~~~

Good post...........


:D

 

[Blazin Bones]

Hey Rose of Sharon. I don't think I've said hello to you since I arrived here at the Forums. Nice to meet you.

 

[Rose of Sharon]

Hey Rose of Sharon. I don't think I've said hello to you since I arrived here at the Forums. Nice to meet you.

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

Hey, :D and I don't think I've welcomed you. Welcome. I trust you are enjoying your time on the board. It's a great forum and nice folks here.
Nice to meet you as well.

God bless

 

[Henry]

But yet it is implied throughout 1 Cor. 14 that neither the hearer nor listeners understand what is said without an interpretation. This is consistent with much of tongues today.

Sorry but t it is presumed that what they did then is what is being done today. And for that matter you would not stand fast on a doctrine that is merely implied. It is implied that becuase we read about people speaking tongues it is the evidence of being baptized with the holy Spirit.

The entire issue was that no one listening would understand and be edified by tonuges. The no one does not refere to the speaker, but the listener. All else is presumed and assumed and implied and there we must be carefull. Do not shout where the bible is silent.

Brutus/HisCatalyst

After God punished the people by confusing their language, it's suggested that God removed the angelic tounge from the ones spoken on the earth.

You show me the text that suggest this. Show me scripture.

As for my arguement, It's not weak at all. If God only communicates with us in Our languages thenwhat makes that aspect of God better than us.

This is just a silly arguement, not even shure what to say. God is not any less then God becuase he speaks to us in languages we understand, and for that matter we are talking about men speaking in gibberish not God speaking to man.

You forget that I do not beleive this tongues stuff we here these days is from God in the first place. It is right out of mans own emotionalism.

That presents a God that can only communicate with us in our language, or "on our terms". That's not the God you or I serve, or am I mistaken? God's Blessings.

No, it prestents a God who desires us to UNDERSTAND what he is telling us. Seshhhhhh

Eve

Then you are saying that everyone that has been baptized in the Holy Spirit with the evidence of speaking in tongues is living a lie and is in the grip of Satan?.

Are you kidding me? I know many who have been baptized in the Holy Spirit and NEVER spoke in tongues. Are you saying they are not really baptized in the Holy Spirit?

You will speak in tongues when the spirt enters into your body but it will not be the gift of tongues. It will be a private prayer language between you and God.

Oh you are saying that, so if I say that you are wrong I am in danger of God judgement? But you can make this sort of statement and you are OK?

Whole churches as a matter of fact.

Millions of mormons think they will be gods one day, what is your point?

Nikki

I've experienced the fake tounges as well. It's a thing that's hard to determine which kind of tounges it is. Thanks for the story Nikki

Good !!! You keep that desernment up and running. I wish more would do the same, perhaps you can help others to understand that there are fakes out there, and like you keep their eyes open.

 

[Eve777]

Are you saying they are not really baptized in the Holy Spirit?

They may be filled with the spirit but they are not baptised into the body of Christ. There are a lot of good men and women that do good works and are the salt of the Earth but if they have not received the Holy Ghost, in a manner consistent with the Early Church and it's teachings, they are not saved.

Have you recieved the Holy Ghost since you believed?

How did they know they had received the Holy Ghost?

Because they heard them speak with onther tongues and magnify God.

ACTS 10:45-46 NKJ

45 And those of the circumcision who believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out on the Gentiles also.
46 For they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God...


This is how they knew in the Early Church and this is how we know today. This was not a sign for the Jews so they would beleive, those Jews standing there were beleivers,,,they already believed. It was to show them that the way of grace was now open to all people and this is the way they knew......

They heard them speak in tongues and magnify God.

No where in the Bible does it say this has changed. No where.........

When that which is perfect has come (the second coming of Jesus) tongues, knowledge and prophecy,,all things will cease becasue they will no longer be needed. So if you Pastor tells you the NT is that which is perfect, you need to check that out further....It is not talking about the New Testement in this scripture below but the second coming of Jesus.


(1 Cor 13.10, NKJV)
But when that which is perfect has come, then that which is in part will be done away.

 

[Henry]

Eve

Dear with all due respect I hope that you are not teaching any one.

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message. 45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles. 46 For they heard them speaking in tongues[2] and praising God.
47 Then Peter said, "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have." 48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

The Jews (circumcised) were astonished, that the uncircumcised received the gift of the Holy Spirit same as they had. And spoke in tongues, which you have insisted is the evidence of having been baptized in the Spirit.

Then they were baptized in water.

No one is saying that the bible has changed, just that you are wrong about what the Bible teaches,and what the early Church taught.

 

[Eve777]

And spoke in tongues, which you have insisted is the evidence of having been baptized in the Spirit.

Just what part of, "Because they heard them speak with other tongues and magnify God" don't you understand, Henry? I don't insist it is true. I know it is true..Because the Bible tells me so.

 

[Blazin Bones]

Brutus/HisCatalyst

Quote:
After God punished the people by confusing their language, it's suggested that God removed the angelic tounge from the ones spoken on the earth.


You show me the text that suggest this. Show me scripture.

Quote:
As for my arguement, It's not weak at all. If God only communicates with us in Our languages thenwhat makes that aspect of God better than us.


This is just a silly arguement, not even shure what to say. God is not any less then God becuase he speaks to us in languages we understand, and for that matter we are talking about men speaking in gibberish not God speaking to man.

You forget that I do not beleive this tongues stuff.

1. Here's the text from Genesis 11:1-9, Henry.

GE 11:1 Now the whole earth had one language and one speech.
GE 11:2 And it came to pass, as they journeyed from the east, that they found a plain in the land of Shinar, and they dwelt there.
GE 11:3 Then they said to one another, "Come, let us make bricks and bake them thoroughly." They had brick for stone, and they had asphalt for mortar.
GE 11:4 And they said, "Come, let us build ourselves a city, and a tower whose top is in the heavens; let us make a name for ourselves, lest we be scattered abroad over the face of the whole earth."
GE 11:5 But the Lord came down to see the city and the tower which the sons of men had built.
GE 11:6 And the Lord said, "Indeed the people are one and they all have one language, and this is what they begin to do; now nothing that they propose to do will be withheld from them.
GE 11:7 "Come, let Us go down and there confuse their language, that they may not understand one another's speech."
GE 11:8 So the Lord scattered them abroad from there over the face of all the earth, and they ceased building the city.
GE 11:9 Therefore its name is called Babel, because there the Lord confused the language of all the earth; and from there the Lord scattered them abroad over the face of all the earth.[KJV]

I at no point say that the sripture flat out says what I stated, but rather I stated how It has been suggested, meanning by scholars.

2.As to your second point, I am merely providing a suggestion as to why it is believed their is a tounge of angels. That is what I was responding to, which clearly you could not see. The Topic of an angelic tounge is still relevant to the discussion of tounges, and you know that.

3.If you do not believe in tounges, then you do not trust in the words of the Bible and it is useless to continue discussing the topic.

 

[Providence Chapel]

The First Question we should address, Does it still exist?

No

Second, Why do we discourage those with the gift of Tounges from using their Gift?

Because it is not a gift as it does not exist.

 

[Henry]

Eve

Once agian you have missed the point, let try this again. LOL as if it matters, you are not teachable anyways.

44 While Peter was still speaking these words, the Holy Spirit came on all who heard the message.

45 The circumcised believers who had come with Peter were astonished that the gift of the Holy Spirit had been poured out even on the Gentiles.

46 For they heard them speaking in tongues[2] and praising God.

47 Then Peter said, "Can anyone keep these people from being baptized with water? They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have."

48 So he ordered that they be baptized in the name of Jesus Christ. Then they asked Peter to stay with them for a few days.

Your claim is that to be saved one must repent, be baptized in the name of Jesus, and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

But this section of text proves that is wrong.

They were filled with the Holy Spirit while they listened, before they were baptized with water. And Peter says "They have received the Holy Spirit just as we have." we is who? Peter and those saved men that were with him.

Then after they recieved the Holy Spirit just as they did, he asked them to be baptized, assumingly in water it does not say specifically. But the point is that they went to the water (if it was water) as SAVED people, not to get saved.

Sorry, but NO ONE is filled with the Spirit if God and not saved, anyone and everyone that has been given the gift of the Holy Spirit, which says these infact had are saved and once saved always saved.

All that is needed to be saved is to hear and believe the good news of Jesus Christ.

 

[Eve777]

Your claim is that to be saved one must repent, be baptized in the name of Jesus, and receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

Like shooting fish in a barrell sometimes...yes, but I don't claim.....here are Peter's words from his own mouth.....


Acts 2:38

Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.


Okay, they have forgiveness of thier sins, they have repented....what now?The Promise Of The Baptism In The Holy Ghost:
Matthew 3:11; John 14:16-18; John 14:25-26; John 16:5-7; John 16:13-15; Luke 24:49; Acts 1:3-5,8


The Fulfillment Of The Baptism in the Holy Ghost:
Acts 2:1-6,13-18,21,29-36


Notice two scriptures showing people saved and later receiving the Baptism In The Holy Ghost:
Acts 8:9-17 and Acts 19:1-6


Acts 19:2 "He said unto them, Have ye received the Holy Ghost since ye believed? And they said unto him, We have not so much as heard whether there be any Holy Ghost."


Acts 19:6 "And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the Holy Ghost came on them, and they spake with tongues, and prophesied."


Pray that Jesus Christ would baptize you in The Holy Ghost, Henry.

 

[Free]

Eve,

Acts 2:38

Peter replied, "Repent and be baptized, every one of you, in the name of Jesus Christ for the forgiveness of your sins. And you will receive the gift of the Holy Spirit.

This means that every believer that has repented and been baptized has received the gift of the Holy Spirit. Either that or Peter lied, or your interpretation and understanding of this verse is wrong.

 

[Eve777]

Then why send Peter to them so that they would receive? If all baptized believers automatically receive it, what would be the point. Not just once, but several times, they were sent to baptized believers so that they might lay hands on them....WHY?....so they would receive the Holy Ghost.
If we receive it the minute we are baptized and repent,,,,why go to the trouble of sending someone to them?

Jesus Christ said to Peter, "When you are converted, strengthen the brethren," Luke 22:32. How would you react to that statement if Christ made that statement to you today? Would you be offended and react by telling Him, "He didn't really know what He was talking about," especially if Christ made this statement through one of His servants?" Would you proceed to prove to Him that you are converted by the fact that you have repented of your sins, and presently you are a commandment keeper, and that you have been baptized and you do believe, and have accepted Christ as your Savior? You would also add that you have been given God's Holy Spirit, and because of all this, you would answer "yes," you are converted.

Peter too had repented, and without question, was a commandment keeper. Peter too, had been baptized, and confessed with his mouth that Jesus was the Son of the Living God, had given up his occupation, and had been with Christ during His entire 3 1/2 year ministry, and had even partaken of Christ's first, New Covenant, Passover Service. And it was right after that Passover service that Christ made that statement to Peter, ---" When you are converted, strengthen the brethren."


Peter denied Jesus three times before he was converted. What converted him...Read Acts 2...........he received the Holy Ghost. Now he had power and went about dong the work of God with Boldness...there are some that say he was crucified upside down...this was the wimpy Peter who denied Jesus....Now he had power........the Holy Ghost gives you power....that is when you are converted....

If you have not his spirit, you are none of his........even if you repent and are baptized in every church around....

 

[Henry]

if all baptized believers automatically receive it, what would be the point.

Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,

All believers receive the Holy Spirit, the promise is that we are marked and sealed for the great day of redemption. Becuase we believed not becuase we preformed a certainl cerimony just right.

Jesus Christ said to Peter, "When you are converted, strengthen the brethren," Luke 22:32. How would you react to that statement if Christ made that statement to you today?

First of all you need to study this out and be sure that he was saying what you think, I suspect that if you were to honestly have a look at this verse, and study the contextual and gramatical meanings from the greek you would learn that he was not saying what you have thought he was.

If you have not his spirit, you are none of his........even if you repent and are baptized in every church around....

Ok So then if someone has not spoken in tongue as the evidence of receiving the Holy Spirit you are telling us that person will go to hell. Though he repented and was baptized he is going to hell, because based on your doctrine he is not in the Lord?

Well, that is just not going to get it becuase that is not what Jesus said

John 3:15 that everyone who believes in him may have eternal life.[1]
16 "For God so loved the world that he gave his one and only Son,[2] that whoever believes in him shall not perish but have eternal life. 17 For God did not send his Son into the world to condemn the world, but to save the world through him. 18 Whoever believes in him is not condemned, but whoever does not believe stands condemned already because he has not believed in the name of God's one and only Son.

Heres is the way this works, when someone beleives in the Lord. HE IS SAVED !!! Right then and there, it is a done deal. Upon that faith one receives that Holy Spirit to mark and seal him for the great day, and to lead and guide him.

Then one goes to be water baptized as a sign of this promise that is was already received by faith.

Then when and if God uses that one, he will baptize them in the Holy Spirit which is for the empowerment of the work which he has laif before that one.

You keep arguing with everyone here, but you should be listening becuase dear like it or not you are the mistaken one here.

 

[Eve777]

You just can't get away from the scriptures below. No matter how you cut it.


Peter and the six Jewish Christians who went with him to Caesarea knew that the Gentiles had received the Holy Ghost, not because of longsuffering, gentleness, meekness, or temperance, but because they heard them speak with tongues and magnify God (Acts 10:46). Peter specifically pointed to speaking in tongues as the irrefutable evidence (Acts 10:46-47).


Here's something else you can't get around. At Caesarea all who heard the Word were filled, and all who heard the Word spoke in tongues. If some of them had not spoken in tongues, would the Jewish Christians have accepted their experiences? Clearly not. All twelve men mentioned in Acts 19:6 had a uniform experience. If ten of the twelve had spoken in tongues and the other two had not, would Paul have believed that the two had received the Holy Ghost just as the ten? Certainly not. Paul would not have accepted their experience if they have failed to exhibit the uniform evidence.

Posted: Fri Nov 19, 2004 7:05 am Post subject:

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Quote:
if all baptized believers automatically receive it, what would be the point.


Ephesians 1:13 And you also were included in Christ when you heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation. Having believed, you were marked in him with a seal, the promised Holy Spirit,
------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
So if this is your answer or proof to my quote.....Let's just put the rest of this into CONTEXT. You love telling me I don't put things into context but let's just see who these Ephesisans were....did they already know about the Holy Ghost?

"Paul, having passed through the upper coasts, came to Ephesus. And finding certain disciples, he said unto them, `Have ye received the holy Ghost since ye believed?' And they said unto him, `We have not so much as heard whether there be any holy Ghost.' And he said unto them, `Unto what then were ye baptized?' And they said, `Unto John's baptism.' Then said Paul, `John verily baptized with the baptism of repentance, saying unto the people that they should believe on him which should come after him, that is, on Christ Jesus.' When they heard this, they were baptized in the name of the Lord Jesus. And when Paul had laid his hands upon them, the holy Ghost came on them, and they spake with tongues, and prophesied. And all the men were about twelve." (Acts 19:1-7)


Well, what do you know? They had already received the Holy Ghost. He was speaking to baptized believers who had received the Holy Ghost with the evidence of speaking in tongues....