The Gospel of Grace

[RichardBurger]

The Gospel of Grace: --- All scriptures from the NKJV

After studying the Scriptures for over 60 years and writing many articles contradicting the writings of those that place their faith in their religions and religious practices, I have concluded that most will not believe what I write. However, I am going to write what I believe to be the true Gospel of God’s grace based on the work of Jesus Christ on the cross.

The true Gospel of Grace is that God has now concluded ALL men are hopelessly lost and are continually sinful in the flesh. Since that is true, based on the law, then God is totally fair in offering salvation based on the work of His Son, Jesus Christ, on the cross. The blood of His Son, Jesus Christ, covers ALL the sins of anyone that will place ALL their belief, faith, trust, confidence, and hope in the work of God on the cross. These are betting their eternal life on the work of God and are made children of God in Christ.

It makes me sad to understand that most men/women do not really do this. They seem to place their salvation on religious activities and their works. They believe in the Social/moral gospel taught by religions. In reality they place their trust in what they do, not what God has done. They cannot deny themselves and follow Jesus. They will nor relinquish control of their salvation to God and, instead, place their bets on what they do for God, not on what God has done for them.

The following Scriptures show us that it is the work of God that saves.

2 Cor 1:20-22
20 For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us.
21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God,
22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

Rom 8:35-39
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written:

"For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter."

37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.
38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come,
39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2 Tim 1:8-12
8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God,
9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,
11 to which I was appointed a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
12 For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.

1 Peter 1:3-5
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Cor 15:56-58
56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.

1 John 5:4-5
4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world  our faith.
5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

1 Peter 1:3-5
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

All those that place ALL their belief, faith, trust, confidence, and hope in the work of God on the cross are kept by the power of God, not by their own power. Many do not believe this and I believe them to be lost.

 

[D4Christ]

It makes me sad to understand that most men/women do not really do this. They seem to place their salvation on religious activities and their works. They believe in the Social/moral gospel taught by religions. In reality they place their trust in what they do, not what God has done. They cannot deny themselves and follow Jesus. They will nor relinquish control of their salvation to God and, instead, place their bets on what they do for God, not on what God has done for them.

The following Scriptures show us that it is the work of God that saves....

All those that place ALL their belief, faith, trust, confidence, and hope in the work of God on the cross are kept by the power of God, not by their own power. Many do not believe this and I believe them to be lost.

Revelation 22 NLT

12 “Look, I am coming soon, bringing my reward with me to repay all people according to their deeds. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.â€Â

James 2

14 What good is it, dear brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but don’t show it by your actions? Can that kind of faith save anyone? 15 Suppose you see a brother or sister who has no food or clothing, 16 and you say, “Good-bye and have a good day; stay warm and eat wellâ€Ââ€â€but then you don’t give that person any food or clothing. What good does that do?
17 So you see, faith by itself isn’t enough. Unless it produces good deeds, it is dead and useless.

18 Now someone may argue, “Some people have faith; others have good deeds.†But I say, “How can you show me your faith if you don’t have good deeds? I will show you my faith by my good deeds.â€Â

19 You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. 20 How foolish! Can’t you see that faith without good deeds is useless?
21 Don’t you remember that our ancestor Abraham was shown to be right with God by his actions when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see, his faith and his actions worked together. His actions made his faith complete.23 And so it happened just as the Scriptures say: “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.†He was even called the friend of God. 24 So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do, not by faith alone.
25 Rahab the prostitute is another example. She was shown to be right with God by her actions when she hid those messengers and sent them safely away by a different road. 26 Just as the body is dead without breath, so also faith is dead without good works.

John10

37 Don’t believe me unless I carry out my Father’s work. 38 But if I do his work, believe in the evidence of the miraculous works I have done, even if you don’t believe me. Then you will know and understand that the Father is in me, and I am in the Father.â€Â

There seems to be a difference in doing 'works' as good deeds and 'works' as following the law. Faith without good deeds is useles but faith cannot be obtained by following the works of the law.

Galations 2

16 Yet we know that a person is made right with God by faith in Jesus Christ, not by obeying the law. And we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be made right with God because of our faith in Christ, not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be made right with God by obeying the law.â€Â

or KJV

16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Deirdre

 

[Heidi]

The Gospel of Grace: --- All scriptures from the NKJV

After studying the Scriptures for over 60 years and writing many articles contradicting the writings of those that place their faith in their religions and religious practices, I have concluded that most will not believe what I write. However, I am going to write what I believe to be the true Gospel of God’s grace based on the work of Jesus Christ on the cross.

The true Gospel of Grace is that God has now concluded ALL men are hopelessly lost and are continually sinful in the flesh. Since that is true, based on the law, then God is totally fair in offering salvation based on the work of His Son, Jesus Christ, on the cross. The blood of His Son, Jesus Christ, covers ALL the sins of anyone that will place ALL their belief, faith, trust, confidence, and hope in the work of God on the cross. These are betting their eternal life on the work of God and are made children of God in Christ.

It makes me sad to understand that most men/women do not really do this. They seem to place their salvation on religious activities and their works. They believe in the Social/moral gospel taught by religions. In reality they place their trust in what they do, not what God has done. They cannot deny themselves and follow Jesus. They will nor relinquish control of their salvation to God and, instead, place their bets on what they do for God, not on what God has done for them.

The following Scriptures show us that it is the work of God that saves.

2 Cor 1:20-22
20 For all the promises of God in Him are Yes, and in Him Amen, to the glory of God through us.
21 Now He who establishes us with you in Christ and has anointed us is God,
22 who also has sealed us and given us the Spirit in our hearts as a guarantee.

Rom 8:35-39
35 Who shall separate us from the love of Christ? Shall tribulation, or distress, or persecution, or famine, or nakedness, or peril, or sword?
36 As it is written:

"For Your sake we are killed all day long;
We are accounted as sheep for the slaughter."

37 Yet in all these things we are more than conquerors through Him who loved us.
38 For I am persuaded that neither death nor life, nor angels nor principalities nor powers, nor things present nor things to come,
39 nor height nor depth, nor any other created thing, shall be able to separate us from the love of God which is in Christ Jesus our Lord.

2 Tim 1:8-12
8 Therefore do not be ashamed of the testimony of our Lord, nor of me His prisoner, but share with me in the sufferings for the gospel according to the power of God,
9 who has saved us and called us with a holy calling, not according to our works, but according to His own purpose and grace which was given to us in Christ Jesus before time began,
10 but has now been revealed by the appearing of our Savior Jesus Christ, who has abolished death and brought life and immortality to light through the gospel,
11 to which I was appointed a preacher, an apostle, and a teacher of the Gentiles.
12 For this reason I also suffer these things; nevertheless I am not ashamed, for I know whom I have believed and am persuaded that He is able to keep what I have committed to Him until that Day.

1 Peter 1:3-5
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

1 Cor 15:56-58
56 The sting of death is sin, and the strength of sin is the law.
57 But thanks be to God, who gives us the victory through our Lord Jesus Christ.
58 Therefore, my beloved brethren, be steadfast, immovable, always abounding in the work of the Lord, knowing that your labor is not in vain in the Lord.

1 John 5:4-5
4 For whatever is born of God overcomes the world. And this is the victory that has overcome the world  our faith.
5 Who is he who overcomes the world, but he who believes that Jesus is the Son of God?

1 Peter 1:3-5
3 Blessed be the God and Father of our Lord Jesus Christ, who according to His abundant mercy has begotten us again to a living hope through the resurrection of Jesus Christ from the dead,
4 to an inheritance incorruptible and undefiled and that does not fade away, reserved in heaven for you,
5 who are kept by the power of God through faith for salvation ready to be revealed in the last time.

All those that place ALL their belief, faith, trust, confidence, and hope in the work of God on the cross are kept by the power of God, not by their own power. Many do not believe this and I believe them to be lost.

It is sad. But only the indwelling Holy spirit can show one the grace of God. And only those whom God is drawing can receive Him. Matthew 11:27, "No one knows the Son except the Father, and no one knows the Father except the Son and those to whom the Son chooses to reveal him."

But since no one knows who God's elect are, then no one can say that God isn't drawing him. So we are all without excuse.

 

[Aero_Hudson]

It makes me sad to understand that most men/women do not really do this. They seem to place their salvation on religious activities and their works. They believe in the Social/moral gospel taught by religions. In reality they place their trust in what they do, not what God has done. They cannot deny themselves and follow Jesus. They will nor relinquish control of their salvation to God and, instead, place their bets on what they do for God, not on what God has done for them.

The following Scriptures show us that it is the work of God that saves....

All those that place ALL their belief, faith, trust, confidence, and hope in the work of God on the cross are kept by the power of God, not by their own power. Many do not believe this and I believe them to be lost.

Revelation 22 NLT

12 “Look, I am coming soon, bringing my reward with me to repay all people according to their deeds. 13 I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.â€Â

James 2
[quote:1se1hs0z]14 What good is it, dear brothers and sisters, if you say you have faith but don’t show it by your actions? Can that kind of faith save anyone? 15 Suppose you see a brother or sister who has no food or clothing, 16 and you say, “Good-bye and have a good day; stay warm and eat wellâ€Ââ€â€but then you don’t give that person any food or clothing. What good does that do?
17 So you see, faith by itself isn’t enough. Unless it produces good deeds, it is dead and useless.

18 Now someone may argue, “Some people have faith; others have good deeds.†But I say, “How can you show me your faith if you don’t have good deeds? I will show you my faith by my good deeds.â€Â

19 You say you have faith, for you believe that there is one God. Good for you! Even the demons believe this, and they tremble in terror. 20 How foolish! Can’t you see that faith without good deeds is useless?
21 Don’t you remember that our ancestor Abraham was shown to be right with God by his actions when he offered his son Isaac on the altar? 22 You see, his faith and his actions worked together. His actions made his faith complete.23 And so it happened just as the Scriptures say: “Abraham believed God, and God counted him as righteous because of his faith.†He was even called the friend of God. 24 So you see, we are shown to be right with God by what we do, not by faith alone.
25 Rahab the prostitute is another example. She was shown to be right with God by her actions when she hid those messengers and sent them safely away by a different road. 26 Just as the body is dead without breath, so also faith is dead without good works.

John10

37 Don’t believe me unless I carry out my Father’s work. 38 But if I do his work, believe in the evidence of the miraculous works I have done, even if you don’t believe me. Then you will know and understand that the Father is in me, and I am in the Father.â€Â

There seems to be a difference in doing 'works' as good deeds and 'works' as following the law. Faith without good deeds is useles but faith cannot be obtained by following the works of the law.

Galations 2

16 Yet we know that a person is made right with God by faith in Jesus Christ, not by obeying the law. And we have believed in Christ Jesus, so that we might be made right with God because of our faith in Christ, not because we have obeyed the law. For no one will ever be made right with God by obeying the law.â€Â

or KJV

16Knowing that a man is not justified by the works of the law, but by the faith of Jesus Christ, even we have believed in Jesus Christ, that we might be justified by the faith of Christ, and not by the works of the law: for by the works of the law shall no flesh be justified.

Deirdre[/quote:1se1hs0z]

Amen Brother / Sister! :amen

 

[RichardBurger]

Is there such a Theology as a Works Theology? -- Does this theology really exist or am I making it up?

IMHO yes it really does exist. If you ask most people in the Christian religion why they think they are going to heaven the first things out of their mouth will be about what they do, or have done. --- In other words it will be about themselves and their works. -- Very few will “â€Âfirstâ€Â†say it is because Jesus’ work on the cross paid for their sins. If they mention the cross it will have to be coerced. -- Why do they do that? IMHO it is because they feel their works are what really matters and perhaps that is because they have been taught a “works theology", a Theology based on the Book of James which was not written to the grace church (James 1:1).

The most discussed idea on forums is works. To believe works follow faith is find, but to constantly harp on it is to judge other Christians and to make “â€Âworks the center of Christianity.â€Â†This is a form of boasting and trying to elevate some people as being closer to God than others. It makes Christianity a class system. IMHO this is what causes the world to turn against Christianity. The world see Christianity as a works based religion just like all the other works based religions and not as a religion in which God has reconciled sinners to God.

Since true faith WILL produce good works why are so many constantly harping that a person must have good works? If they are a Christian won’t they have good works? Do they need others to kick them into doing good works? A true child of God does not do good works to be seen by men. They do not do them to prove they have faith. God knows whether they have faith or not. No one needs to prove their faith to any man.

Seems to me that if they are not Christians all the harping about doing good works will not make them a Christian. It also seems to me that all the harping about good works only frustrates a child of God who is living in a body with a sinful nature that will sin.

As I see it.

 

[Heidi]

Good post and how true. Christianity takes about as much work as thanking someone for rescuing you from a burning fire which is no work. Once we are born again, it's the fruits of the Spirit that produce good works, not our own human effort. But then most people aren't born again as the statistics show.

 

[D4Christ]

RB,

I understand what you are saying. It's just been that most of my experiences with Christians have been them talking about how they are saved by faith and not by works. I have personally not experienced many Christians talk about how faith and good deeeds (works) go hand in hand. But I can understand how the "boasting of works" could get on someone's nerves.

Blessings,
Deirdre

 

[Heidi]

RB,

I understand what you are saying. It's just been that most of my experiences with Christians have been them talking about how they are saved by faith and not by works. I have personally not experienced many Christians talk about how faith and good deeeds (works) go hand in hand. But I can understand how the "boasting of works" could get on someone's nerves.

Blessings,
Deirdre

Unfortunately, that's what most of the unsaved think. That's why few of them ever take the time to question whether they're going to heaven or hell. They just think they're good enough to get there all by themselves because they haven't murdered anyone.

 

[bleitzel]

Since true faith WILL produce good works why are so many constantly harping that a person must have good works?

Wow, Richard. For someone who has studied for 60 years and written articles, etc. you seem to be a little uninformed as to the reasons for all the strong debates here and other places. You correctly assert in your OP that:

The blood of His Son, Jesus Christ, covers ALL the sins of anyone that will place ALL their belief, faith, trust, confidence, and hope in the work of God on the cross.

But there are many who debate that the "anyone" you mention is in reality not anyone, but only a few whom God has given the ability to. These people say that only a few people that God has chosen actually have the ability to place all their belief, faith, trust, etc. in the work of Christ on the cross. These people proclaim that the faith that comes from God, not you, is what saves you. In response, many other people (of whom I think you may be one) would say that no, it is we who must have the faith. God lays out the evidence, but we must choose whther to obey or not. And we all have that ability.

Now, as a natural outcome of the God-given faith argument, any actions of the human are inconcsequential to these preachers. But scripture tells us over and over that our deeds will show our faith, that faith without works is dead.

A true child of God does not do them [good works] to prove they have faith. God knows whether they have faith or not.

But then again, maybe you do not belive that faith is part cognitive assention, part active obedience...

 

[RichardBurger]

Since true faith WILL produce good works why are so many constantly harping that a person must have good works?

Wow, Richard. For someone who has studied for 60 years and written articles, etc. you seem to be a little uninformed as to the reasons for all the strong debates here and other places. You correctly assert in your OP that:

The blood of His Son, Jesus Christ, covers ALL the sins of anyone that will place ALL their belief, faith, trust, confidence, and hope in the work of God on the cross.

But there are many who debate that the "anyone" you mention is in reality not anyone, but only a few whom God has given the ability to. These people say that only a few people that God has chosen actually have the ability to place all their belief, faith, trust, etc. in the work of Christ on the cross. These people proclaim that the faith that comes from God, not you, is what saves you. In response, many other people (of whom I think you may be one) would say that no, it is we who must have the faith. God lays out the evidence, but we must choose whther to obey or not. And we all have that ability.

Now, as a natural outcome of the God-given faith argument, any actions of the human are inconcsequential to these preachers. But scripture tells us over and over that our deeds will show our faith, that faith without works is dead.

A true child of God does not do them [good works] to prove they have faith. God knows whether they have faith or not.

But then again, maybe you do not belive that faith is part cognitive assention, part active obedience...

******
Our obedience is to have faith in Jesus' work on the cross. I will start a new topic on obedience.
Richard

 

[francisdesales]

Good post and how true. Christianity takes about as much work as thanking someone for rescuing you from a burning fire which is no work. Once we are born again, it's the fruits of the Spirit that produce good works, not our own human effort. But then most people aren't born again as the statistics show.

I respectfully disagree.

The fruits of the Holy Spirit become hidden if we do not accept the Spirit's movement in our hearts. Read the parable of the talents or the parable of the sower and the seed. The talents and seeds are freely given - but God requires that we use these talents to produce fruit. Not that our abilities make God owe us anything.

Read my signature, and things might be made more clear. Christianity is about putting our faith in action - not because it earns us anything, but because that is what we ARE, new creations in Christ. We do what we were made to do, if we indeed ARE what we claim...

Regards

 

[francisdesales]

Our obedience is to have faith in Jesus' work on the cross. I will start a new topic on obedience.

The person who claims to have faith but does not obey has a very shallow faith, indeed... Clearly, the Bible has faith and obedience and love working hand in hand. They do not oppose each other. What is opposed is faith to works OF THE LAW. Not works of love. Paul never opposes faith to love...

And love is ALWAYS expressed, otherwise, it is not love... Thus, without love, one's faith is dead...

Regards

 

[Adullam]

The work of Jesus on the cross is not the ushering in of a general amnesty for sins for all time. No. The resurrection of Christ is also part of the equation. We are to also walk in newness of life.

The teachers of the powerless gospel omit the resurrection since they are only interested in the sacrifice part. But the resurrection of Christ is the victory over sin and death.

We are to walk in newness of life overcoming sin in obedience to the laws of God. Jesus did not make a secret sacrifice behind God's back, thus making God's proclamations void! Jesus Christ fulfilled the law, so that we could follow Him and do the same. The Holy Spirit within us makes us more accountable towards obedience...not less.

Jesus paid the penalty for sins on our behalf but He wasn't obedient instead of us.

 

[RichardBurger]

The work of Jesus on the cross is not the ushering in of a general amnesty for sins for all time. No. The resurrection of Christ is also part of the equation. We are to also walk in newness of life.

The teachers of the powerless gospel omit the resurrection since they are only interested in the sacrifice part. But the resurrection of Christ is the victory over sin and death.

We are to walk in newness of life overcoming sin in obedience to the laws of God. Jesus did not make a secret sacrifice behind God's back, thus making God's proclamations void! Jesus Christ fulfilled the law, so that we could follow Him and do the same. The Holy Spirit within us makes us more accountable towards obedience...not less.

Jesus paid the penalty for sins on our behalf but He wasn't obedient instead of us.

I disagree. If the work of God on the cross is not enough to save a person without the help of a person, then salvation is not very powerful since it depends on man. We have the victory over sin when we place our belief, faith, trust, confidence, and hope in the work of God on the cross. No one has every been able to overcome his/her sinful flesh nature. Paul indicates this in Romans 7, last few words.

It seems to me that those that teach works cannot see into their own hearts and reconize the evil that is there. They only look outwards at others thinking that others sin and that they, themselves, do not sin any longer. To me that is being dishonest.

If a man/women does not place ALL their belief, faith, trust, confidence in the work of God on the cross then they are placing part of it in themselves, their ability to not sin. --- But the religious, who teach law, are condemned because they add their works to the work of God on the cross. God will not share the glory of His Son's work with sinful man.

 

[Adullam]

The work of Jesus on the cross is not the ushering in of a general amnesty for sins for all time. No. The resurrection of Christ is also part of the equation. We are to also walk in newness of life.

The teachers of the powerless gospel omit the resurrection since they are only interested in the sacrifice part. But the resurrection of Christ is the victory over sin and death.

We are to walk in newness of life overcoming sin in obedience to the laws of God. Jesus did not make a secret sacrifice behind God's back, thus making God's proclamations void! Jesus Christ fulfilled the law, so that we could follow Him and do the same. The Holy Spirit within us makes us more accountable towards obedience...not less.

Jesus paid the penalty for sins on our behalf but He wasn't obedient instead of us.

I disagree. If the work of God on the cross is not enough to save a person without the help of a person, then salvation is not very powerful since it depends on man. We have the victory over sin when we place our belief, faith, trust, confidence, and hope in the work of God on the cross. No one has every been able to overcome his/her sinful flesh nature. Paul indicates this in Romans 7, last few words.

It seems to me that those that teach works cannot see into their own hearts and reconize the evil that is there. They only look outwards at others thinking that others sin and that they, themselves, do not sin any longer. To me that is being dishonest.

If a man/women does not place ALL their belief, faith, trust, confidence in the work of God on the cross then they are placing part of it in themselves, their ability to not sin. --- But the religious, who teach law, are condemned because they add their works to the work of God on the cross. God will not share the glory of His Son's work with sinful man.

Your gospel omits the resurrection of Christ. Is this intentional or neglectful?

Paul says that if Jesus be not resurrected, we are still dead in our sins. Paul preached a new creation in Christ. You do not. You preach an amnesty for sins although we walk according to the flesh. But we will be judged by our walk. Are we walking as Jesus walked?

Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

The bible teaches a conditional salvation of obedience by faith unto righteousness and holiness. You can't justify your dead works or lack of (God) good works and claim salvation through a special gnosis that has nothing to do with your actions. Don't you see that?

 

[francisdesales]

I disagree. If the work of God on the cross is not enough to save a person without the help of a person, then salvation is not very powerful since it depends on man.

It appears that you have constrained salvation into what God MUST do, rather than what God CHOOSES to do. Has it occured to you that God DESIRES a RELATIONSHIP with man??? Thus, salvation is held before us, and yes, we are to choose. What sort of relationship speaks of love when it is forced upon another? God chooses to place before us a way to salvation, a way that is POWERFUL. It does not follow, however, that this salvation is "weak" because God gives man free will.

We have the victory over sin when we place our belief, faith, trust, confidence, and hope in the work of God on the cross. No one has every been able to overcome his/her sinful flesh nature. Paul indicates this in Romans 7, last few words.

yes, we have victory over sin, but that is only a legal definition. We ACTUALLY have victory when we ACTUALLY defeat temptations to sin and grow in virtue, becoming more like Christ. Victory over sin is not just some declaration, it is a REALITY, seen in our lives - for those who place their faith into action.

It seems to me that those that teach works cannot see into their own hearts and reconize the evil that is there. They only look outwards at others thinking that others sin and that they, themselves, do not sin any longer. To me that is being dishonest.

What do you mean by "teach works"? That is a loaded word which needs to be defined, for I fear you believe that because I must love, I think I am "teaching works"...

If a man/women does not place ALL their belief, faith, trust, confidence in the work of God on the cross then they are placing part of it in themselves, their ability to not sin.

Wrong. Read my signature line. Those who know they must fulfill God's commands do not have some false sense that we must be perfect to win salvation. We are children of God, and our Father doesn't EXPECT perfection from us - He is well-aware of our weaknesses. Just as we expect EFFORT from our children, God expects effort from us, a turning to Him, a conversion of the heart, a repentance. This does not happen by God's graces alone, because WE TOO must assent to the graces given. We can choose NOT to repent.

Since God's work on the cross was salvific for EVERYONE, than why ISN'T everyone saved, then, unless our response is part of the formula???

Clearly, you have missed a major part of the Gospel.

REPENT and believe...

Regards

 

[RichardBurger]

The work of Jesus on the cross is not the ushering in of a general amnesty for sins for all time. No. The resurrection of Christ is also part of the equation. We are to also walk in newness of life.

The teachers of the powerless gospel omit the resurrection since they are only interested in the sacrifice part. But the resurrection of Christ is the victory over sin and death.

We are to walk in newness of life overcoming sin in obedience to the laws of God. Jesus did not make a secret sacrifice behind God's back, thus making God's proclamations void! Jesus Christ fulfilled the law, so that we could follow Him and do the same. The Holy Spirit within us makes us more accountable towards obedience...not less.

Jesus paid the penalty for sins on our behalf but He wasn't obedient instead of us.

I disagree. If the work of God on the cross is not enough to save a person without the help of a person, then salvation is not very powerful since it depends on man. We have the victory over sin when we place our belief, faith, trust, confidence, and hope in the work of God on the cross. No one has every been able to overcome his/her sinful flesh nature. Paul indicates this in Romans 7, last few words.

It seems to me that those that teach works cannot see into their own hearts and reconize the evil that is there. They only look outwards at others thinking that others sin and that they, themselves, do not sin any longer. To me that is being dishonest.

If a man/women does not place ALL their belief, faith, trust, confidence in the work of God on the cross then they are placing part of it in themselves, their ability to not sin. --- But the religious, who teach law, are condemned because they add their works to the work of God on the cross. God will not share the glory of His Son's work with sinful man.

Your gospel omits the resurrection of Christ. Is this intentional or neglectful?

Paul says that if Jesus be not resurrected, we are still dead in our sins. Paul preached a new creation in Christ. You do not. You preach an amnesty for sins although we walk according to the flesh. But we will be judged by our walk. Are we walking as Jesus walked?

Rom 8:13 For if ye live after the flesh, ye shall die: but if ye through the Spirit do mortify the deeds of the body, ye shall live.

14 For as many as are led by the Spirit of God, they are the sons of God.

The bible teaches a conditional salvation of obedience by faith unto righteousness and holiness. You can't justify your dead works or lack of (God) good works and claim salvation through a special gnosis that has nothing to do with your actions. Don't you see that?

What I see is that I have not said anything about the resurrection of Jesus directly. It is implied when I said He IS the Son Of God. But then you are determined to find fault with what I write to elevate yourself.

Again salvation is by obedience to the gospel of grace. Obedience equals our belief, faith, trust, confidence and hope in the work of God on the cross. Those that believe, trust, in the Lord shall never be put to shame.

The Dictionary gives more that one meaning to the word “mortify.†Religion uses number 1. because it supports their theology about works. But number 2 is just as valid

1. To punish one’s body or control ones\’s physical desires and passions by self-denial, fasting, etc. ----- this was true of those under the law -- but we are not under the law.

2. To feel shame, humiliation, chagrin, etc --- I believe this top be what is implied in Romans 8:13

But I know you will disagree because you believe we are under a law of works.

You said; “The bible teaches a conditional salvation of obedience by faith unto righteousness and holiness. You can't justify your dead works or lack of (God) good works and claim salvation through a special gnosis that has nothing to do with your actions. Don't you see that?â€Â

I don’t believe that at all. No where do I find that those saved under the gospel of God’s grace are obligated to do works to obtain or keep salvation. Salvation is a gift and you are not required to pay for it. Nor can you.

 

[RichardBurger]

I disagree. If the work of God on the cross is not enough to save a person without the help of a person, then salvation is not very powerful since it depends on man.

It appears that you have constrained salvation into what God MUST do, rather than what God CHOOSES to do. Has it occured to you that God DESIRES a RELATIONSHIP with man??? Thus, salvation is held before us, and yes, we are to choose. What sort of relationship speaks of love when it is forced upon another? God chooses to place before us a way to salvation, a way that is POWERFUL. It does not follow, however, that this salvation is "weak" because God gives man free will.

We have the victory over sin when we place our belief, faith, trust, confidence, and hope in the work of God on the cross. No one has every been able to overcome his/her sinful flesh nature. Paul indicates this in Romans 7, last few words.

yes, we have victory over sin, but that is only a legal definition. We ACTUALLY have victory when we ACTUALLY defeat temptations to sin and grow in virtue, becoming more like Christ. Victory over sin is not just some declaration, it is a REALITY, seen in our lives - for those who place their faith into action.

It seems to me that those that teach works cannot see into their own hearts and reconize the evil that is there. They only look outwards at others thinking that others sin and that they, themselves, do not sin any longer. To me that is being dishonest.

What do you mean by "teach works"? That is a loaded word which needs to be defined, for I fear you believe that because I must love, I think I am "teaching works"...

If a man/women does not place ALL their belief, faith, trust, confidence in the work of God on the cross then they are placing part of it in themselves, their ability to not sin.

Wrong. Read my signature line. Those who know they must fulfill God's commands do not have some false sense that we must be perfect to win salvation. We are children of God, and our Father doesn't EXPECT perfection from us - He is well-aware of our weaknesses. Just as we expect EFFORT from our children, God expects effort from us, a turning to Him, a conversion of the heart, a repentance. This does not happen by God's graces alone, because WE TOO must assent to the graces given. We can choose NOT to repent.

Since God's work on the cross was salvific for EVERYONE, than why ISN'T everyone saved, then, unless our response is part of the formula???

Clearly, you have missed a major part of the Gospel.

REPENT and believe...

Regards

I do believe. I believe, have faith, trust and confidence in what Jesus did on the cross. His work has set me free.

Sorry that you cannot seem to see me as a child of God. But I am one because Jesus has made me one and no man can take that away from me. Nor will your attempts to make me think I am not a child of God make me place my faith, trust, confidence in men and their understanding.

 

[Adullam]

RichardBurger said:
I don’t believe that at all. No where do I find that those saved under the gospel of God’s grace are obligated to do works to obtain or keep salvation. Salvation is a gift and you are not required to pay for it. Nor can you.


No, Grace is a gift...and we will be judged on what we do with this grace.

Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. (KJV)

These verses are completely misunderstood by those who have not been actually born of the Spirit. The power unto salvation is a gift. This is the talent in the parable of the talents. But if one fails to bring
forth a return on God's investment, that one will be rejected like the wicked servant who buried his talent. He thought the talent saved him already no doubt. So he neglected to bear fruit through obedience.

1"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful.

One would do well to listen to the bringer of salvation into this world, Jesus Christ. Don't trust human interpretations.


Matt 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.22 Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?"23 And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness."
6If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.


Lawlessness does not inherit the kingdom of God. Faith is not a substitute for lawfulness. Faith makes us obedient or it is not faith!

 

[whirlwind]

RichardBurger said:
I don’t believe that at all. No where do I find that those saved under the gospel of God’s grace are obligated to do works to obtain or keep salvation. Salvation is a gift and you are not required to pay for it. Nor can you.


No, Grace is a gift...and we will be judged on what we do with this grace.

Eph 2:8-9

8 For by grace are ye saved through faith; and that not of yourselves: it is the gift of God:

9 Not of works, lest any man should boast. (KJV)

These verses are completely misunderstood by those who have not been actually born of the Spirit. The power unto salvation is a gift. This is the talent in the parable of the talents. But if one fails to bring
forth a return on God's investment, that one will be rejected like the wicked servant who buried his talent. He thought the talent saved him already no doubt. So he neglected to bear fruit through obedience.

1"I am the true vine, and my Father is the gardener. 2He cuts off every branch in me that bears no fruit, while every branch that does bear fruit he prunes[a] so that it will be even more fruitful.

One would do well to listen to the bringer of salvation into this world, Jesus Christ. Don't trust human interpretations.


Matt 7:21 Not everyone who says to Me, "Lord, Lord," shall enter the kingdom of heaven, but he who does the will of My Father in heaven.22 Many will say to Me in that day, "Lord, Lord, have we not prophesied in Your name, cast out demons in Your name, and done many wonders in Your name?"23 And then I will declare to them, "I never knew you; depart from Me, you who practice lawlessness."
6If anyone does not remain in me, he is like a branch that is thrown away and withers; such branches are picked up, thrown into the fire and burned.


Lawlessness does not inherit the kingdom of God. Faith is not a substitute for lawfulness. Faith makes us obedient or it is not faith!

:amen