The heart of "TRUE WORSHIP"

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Genesis 8:21 And the Lord smelled a sweet savor (the burning of the Sacriface was sweet unto the Lord, because it spoke of the Coming Redeemer, Who would lift man out of this morass of evil);

And as a result of Noah's faithfulness and carrying of the Lord's creation through the flood on the Ark, and knowing that Noah and his sons would need a productive earth in order to survive, He removed the curse on the ground He had placed on it after The Fall.

... and the Lord said in His Heart, I will not again curse the ground any more for man's sake (the "curse" of which God speaks here refers to the fact that He will not again visit the Earth with a flood);

That's your opiinion, not Scripture. It is, in my opinion, incorrect. The major commentaries disagree with you also, but that's not where I got the teaching. It is obvious from the context and the use of the exact same phrase that is used in Genesis 3:17.

for the imagination of man's heart is evil from his youth; neither will I again smite any more everything living, as I have done (it means that God will take into consideration the results of the Fall, over which man at the time has no control; however, there is a remedy, which is the Altar, i.e.,"the Cross").

Again, your opinion, with which I and the major commentaries disagree.

 

[stovebolts]

Hmmm ... where have I read a similar post? Where? Where can it be? :crazy

Which part? The part where I said I probably couldn't get back? At least I'm figuring out that even though my intentions are good, I simply don't have the time that a 60 year old does to spend on the forum all day. When it comes to day to day priorities, this forum doesn't pay the bills and it won't substitute my immediate family. So, although I would like to spend more time on the forum, it just isn't the reality.

But to my point, how does Cain and Able know what to offer? How does Able know that a portion of fat offered from the firstborn of his flock is acceptable to God? What made it acceptable? And why was Cain's offering from the soil rejected?

 

[stovebolts]

Now consider the Lord when He spoke to the 12, who represented His Bride? " In My Fathers House are many mansions, I go to prepare a place for you and I will come again and receive unto myself that where I am you will be also.
(In the Greek He speaks to them as females)

In Hebrew, a House was part of genealogy, with the Fathers house being the largest House. For instance, you have two houses in the OT. You have the House of Israel and the House of Judea. We know that the House of Judea consisted of 2 tribes and the House of Israel consisted of 10 tribes. However, a House also included everyone, including slaves and sojourners (gentiles). Thus you had the Northern and Southern tribes. Both of these Houses were part of a larger house, the House of Abraham because Abraham was their Father. If we recall, Abraham would be the Father of "Many" nations, and not just the nation of Israel, although the "promise" did come through Israel.

So we see that "In my fathers house", this is "God's" House. And within God's house, there are many "Mansions" aka "Houses". This should be easily seen I would hope.

Take care.

 

[thisnumbersdisconnected]

Which part? The part where I said I probably couldn't get back? At least I'm figuring out that even though my intentions are good,

I was joking. You said pretty much what I'd said in the previous post.

 

[stovebolts]

I was joking. You said pretty much what I'd said in the previous post.

Ha! ok. Well, till next time who knows when!

 

[Mitspa]

In Hebrew, a House was part of genealogy, with the Fathers house being the largest House. For instance, you have two houses in the OT. You have the House of Israel and the House of Judea. We know that the House of Judea consisted of 2 tribes and the House of Israel consisted of 10 tribes. However, a House also included everyone, including slaves and sojourners (gentiles). Thus you had the Northern and Southern tribes. Both of these Houses were part of a larger house, the House of Abraham because Abraham was their Father. If we recall, Abraham would be the Father of "Many" nations, and not just the nation of Israel, although the "promise" did come through Israel.

So we see that "In my fathers house", this is "God's" House. And within God's house, there are many "Mansions" aka "Houses". This should be easily seen I would hope.

Take care.

Well the truth of Gods house is great and what you shared is true but the point I made was as it relates to the Hebrew traditions and the Greek itselfs proves that The Lord was speaking to the 12 in the feminine gender.

If you cannot see how the Lord was using this tradition as an parable of His relationship with us "the church"? I suggest you are missing much in scripture and should consider that others may have much more knowledge to offer, past the limits of your understanding.

Take care.

 

[Mitspa]

And as a result of Noah's faithfulness and carrying of the Lord's creation through the flood on the Ark, and knowing that Noah and his sons would need a productive earth in order to survive, He removed the curse on the ground He had placed on it after The Fall.

That's your opiinion, not Scripture. It is, in my opinion, incorrect. The major commentaries disagree with you also, but that's not where I got the teaching. It is obvious from the context and the use of the exact same phrase that is used in Genesis 3:17.

Again, your opinion, with which I and the major commentaries disagree.

Well I think you are missing much for we see that Noah himself was offering the sacrifice that represented Christ Jesus. This sacrifice was accepted just as Able was. Which was the original point. Now I believe it is clear that the ground was redeemed by the Blood of Christ in the garden. FOR THE BELIEVER. but it has no effect on the origional point! God had cursed the ground and mans labors in it, And Cain attempted to offer this to God, which God rejected. Paul gives us this same truth "those who are under the works of the law are under the curse of the law" Those who are righteous by faith are accepted and blessed by faith In Christ Jesus. Now It seems these truths may be a little too deep for you to understand? But those who know the scriptures and understand the value of Christ can see this truth as clear as day!

 

[Mitspa]

In the Hebrew tradition a man would be matched to a bride and that husband would make a promise to the bride and then depart from her and go to his fathers house and build a place for her attached to his fathers house. The bride would remain with her people and with her own family for a year, while the husband went away and "prepared a place" for her. This year was considered a time of testing of her chaste condition.

Now consider the Lord when He spoke to the 12, who represented His Bride? " In My Fathers House are many mansions, I go to prepare a place for you and I will come again and receive unto myself that where I am you will be also.
(In the Greek He speaks to them as females)

Now according to tradition the husband would return the the brides fathers house and "call her out" "ekektos" and then take her to his fathers house and she would be considered forever a part of that mans family.

Now much in the gospel can be understood through this tradition? Consider all the scriptures that relate to the bridegroom and her wait for the return of the Groom?

She is told to keep the oil for her lamp, to keep her garments pure..etc..

So if we would see that we are in a time of testing until He returns and that our worship is because we have His Promise and He will return to us. We should have our hearts full of His Love and our lights burning at all times. We should keep ourselves holy unto our beloved.

I find it hard to understand with all the scripture that relates to the bride "church" and the bridegroom "Jesus" that any would have a hard time seeing the points of this post? I think some just like to disagree to hinder others from growing in the truth?

It amazing that on a "christian" form so few seem interested in Christ at all, but just endless debates about nothing at all?

 

[stovebolts]

Well the truth of Gods house is great and what you shared is true but the point I made was as it relates to the Hebrew traditions and the Greek itselfs proves that The Lord was speaking to the 12 in the feminine gender.

If you cannot see how the Lord was using this tradition as an parable of His relationship with us "the church"? I suggest you are missing much in scripture and should consider that others may have much more knowledge to offer, past the limits of your understanding.

Take care.

Please don't misunderstand that you would think I'm disagreeing with you. I was simply widening the box... In Scripture, Jesus is the groom and the Church is his Bride. But if you notice, he is taking his bride to his "Fathers" house. And what do we find within the Fathers house?

That is all I was saying when I posted.
Thanks,

 

[Mitspa]

Please don't misunderstand that you would think I'm disagreeing with you. I was simply widening the box... In Scripture, Jesus is the groom and the Church is his Bride. But if you notice, he is taking his bride to his "Fathers" house. And what do we find within the Fathers house?

That is all I was saying when I posted.
Thanks,

Thanks for the reply stovebolts, My hope in this thread was to help some see the heart of our relationship with God and that based upon our abilty to relate to Christ and who He is to us. I believe seeing our relationship and our position as the bride of Christ, helps to establish in the heart a connection to Him that many seem to miss because of endless debate as we often see on the forum. I hope that others might add to this thread in a way that would help others see the strength of our relationship with Him. I did not notice this in your post although I accept that was your intention. Blessings -Mitspa

 

[stovebolts]

Thanks for the reply stovebolts, My hope in this thread was to help some see the heart of our relationship with God and that based upon our abilty to relate to Christ and who He is to us. I believe seeing our relationship and our position as the bride of Christ, helps to establish in the heart a connection to Him that many seem to miss because of endless debate as we often see on the forum. I hope that others might add to this thread in a way that would help others see the strength of our relationship with Him. I did not notice this in your post although I accept that was your intention. Blessings -Mitspa

Brother,
I agree with the spirit in which you post and I especially agree with your above post. That I vary with you on how I view Cain and Able does not dismiss our unity with the jist of your OP and I'm sorry I didn't spend some time stating such earlier. Next time I will try and lay out our agreements beforehand and then we can squibble over the details.

Take care and have a great day.

 

[Mitspa]

We see from the beginning that Cain and Able represents that which would be the truth of mans relationship and worship of God throughout all the generations of man.
For God had cursed the ground, and mans labors upon the earth. This is known and seen by the types and shadows of scripture. The sweat of the brow and the thorns and thistles of the earth. All are witnesses to the curse.

Able and Cain knew very well that God has cursed the ground and mans labors therein. Yet that wicked Cain attempted to offer to God that which God had cursed?
But Able had seen Gods Mercy, and offered back to God that which represented His mercy. All a picture of "The Lamb of God, slain before the foundations of the world"

Here we find the truth of an acceptable gift and worship of our God?
For God so loved the world, that HE GAVE His only begotten Son.

You see, that the only thing acceptable to God is that which He gave us! Our worship then must be based upon what we have first received from God.

When we see the goodness of our God, this is TRUE REPENTANCE! and then we offer back to Him the sacrifice of our praise.

Awake to righteousness and sin not as Cain did! Offer the fruits of that which God has given and planted, in the death and resurrection of His beloved Son.

Heb 11:4 By faith Abel OFFERED unto God a MORE EXCELLENT SACRIFICE than Cain, by which he obtain witness the he was RIGHTEOUS, God testifying of his GIFTS:

The understanding that Able and his gift represent the righteousness of faith in Christ, is seen as evident in scripture. Also that Cain who labored in the"cursed" ground with his own labors, represent that who labor in the law with their own "cursed" flesh.
Consider that many are trying to offer to God their own service and efforts of flesh? This is not accepted by God.

Jude 1:10-11 But they speak evil of things which they do not know, but what they know naturally, just as animals, in these things they currupt themselves.
WOE UNTO THEM FOR THEY GONE IN THE WAY OF CAIN.

For we are the circumcision who worship God in Spirit, who have no confidence in the flesh.
The natural mind cannot understand the things of God, but we have recieved the Spirit of God, that we might know the things freely given to us by God.

Here it is? If someone is teaching that we "earn" anything from God, by the Law of Moses or by religious works of flesh, they are in fact have gone after the way of Cain.

Like Cain, murder will arise in their heart for all who are righteous in Christ.

"justified freely by His Grace" will put a song in the heart of all who receive His Grace.

Satan "the accuser" will send his cain to destroy that song.
Overcome evil with good, rejoice and be glad!

 

[Jethro Bodine]

Like Cain, murder will arise in their heart for all who are righteous in Christ.

Well, at least in the form of virulent hatred.

The same pride that keeps people in their sins is the same pride that can't stand for someone to be perceived as righteous above and beyond them.

 

[Mitspa]

Well, at least in the form of virulent hatred.

The same pride that keeps people in their sins is the same pride that can't stand for someone to be perceived as righteous above and beyond them.

Murder in the heart. Just like adultry in the heart is the same as the act. Thanks Jethro for your impute, I think we went all those rounds of disagreement only to find out we agree on much? blessings

 

[Mitspa]

Heb 11:4 By faith Abel OFFERED unto God a MORE EXCELLENT SACRIFICE than Cain, by which he obtain witness the he was RIGHTEOUS, God testifying of his GIFTS:

The understanding that Able and his gift represent the righteousness of faith in Christ, is seen as evident in scripture. Also that Cain who labored in the"cursed" ground with his own labors, represent that who labor in the law with their own "cursed" flesh.
Consider that many are trying to offer to God their own service and efforts of flesh? This is not accepted by God.

Jude 1:10-11 But they speak evil of things which they do not know, but what they know naturally, just as animals, in these things they currupt themselves.
WOE UNTO THEM FOR THEY GONE IN THE WAY OF CAIN.

For we are the circumcision who worship God in Spirit, who have no confidence in the flesh.
The natural mind cannot understand the things of God, but we have recieved the Spirit of God, that we might know the things freely given to us by God.

Here it is? If someone is teaching that we "earn" anything from God, by the Law of Moses or by religious works of flesh, they are in fact have gone after the way of Cain.

Like Cain, murder will arise in their heart for all who are righteous in Christ.

"justified freely by His Grace" will put a song in the heart of all who receive His Grace.

Satan "the accuser" will send his cain to destroy that song.
Overcome evil with good, rejoice and be glad!

When the law was given to Moses, God said take heed that you have not seen My Image. Even moses was not allowed to see the face of God. No man through the law could behold the Image of God. God was very strict on this issue, that no man make any image of any kind, to represent Him or any other god. God knew that He would reveal His Image in His Son alone, That Christ Jesus alone is the express Image of God the Father. This point is made throughout the scriptures, and in the Gospels. Jesus said, "if you have seen Me, you have seen the Father".
Very few seem to understand the great difference between seeing God through the Old Testament, and seeing Him in the Person of Our Lord Jesus?

Consider again 2 Cor 3, as we behold Him, we are conformed to His Image?
It is written that no man can look upon the Face of God and live? ONLY ONE WHO HAS DIED WITH CHRIST TO THE LAW, CAN BEHOLD THE BEAUTY OF OUR GOD.

Go reckon at yonder Cross, see that you have died with Him and the Cross will be the Key that opens the Door unto the Image of God.
"For He laid the key of David upon His Shoulder"
As on the Mt. of Tranfiguration, when law and prophets disappear and only Jesus remains, then one can enter into True Worship.

 

[Mitspa]

Phil 4:6-8 Be anxious "fearful" for nothing, but in all things, by prayer and petition with thanksgiving let your request be made known unto God, and the peace of God, which passeth all understanding shall graurd your hearts and minds through Christ Jesus.

Here is the heart of true worship? to set our mind upon Christ, to live apart from fear and live according to the promises of God given to us in Christ.
How will He not WITH HIM, freely give us all things?
If ones receives it by promise then it is not by the lust of the flesh, but by the Spirit of Grace.

Religion teaches us to fear everything and gives us many reasons to doubt the goodness of our God. But true godliness is focused upon Christ Jesus and being conformed to His Image in righteousness of faith, by the Spirit.

No room for fear in His perfect love.
Dare to believe, the law of the Spirit of life in Christ Jesus has set us free from the law of sin and death.

This is worship, IN SPIRIT AND TRUTH.