The Holy Spirit Does Not Guide You Into All Truth!

[MarkT]

Yes and I believe all this. But I don't think it means what we think it means. That's the point of the OP. We have to be careful assuming that what we believe (on a particular thing - the nature of hell for example or the place of baptism in a believers life) is from God and not simply from our own bias or learning. We see through a glass dimly and we ought to approach truth with caution. Some things are slam dunks: Jesus is God; We are saved by faith - it's a gift from God and not earned; but some things aren't so clear. There are a variety of "understandings" when it comes to things of the faith. But only one Truth. We will never know all Truth her on earth. The Bible is pretty clear on that and experience verifies this fact.

I would say those who are of God are biased towards him even before they read the Bible. If God is our Father, and we are of God, then we are biased. That should not come as a big surprise. And those who are of God hear the Son, and they follow him who is true.

I agree there are a variety of understandings, and some things are hard to understand, and not every understanding is valid, but you have to believe our Father has given us of his own Spirit to counsel our spirit so we can know the truth.

 

[MarkT]

I agree re. teaching and false teachings. Should be careful.

 

[Douglas Summers]

I would say those who are of God are biased towards him even before they read the Bible. If God is our Father, and we are of God, then we are biased. That should not come as a big surprise. And those who are of God hear the Son, and they follow him who is true.

I agree there are a variety of understandings, and some things are hard to understand, and not every understanding is valid, but you have to believe our Father has given us of his own Spirit to counsel our spirit so we can know the truth.

Hi Mark, If Christ says, "the Spirit will guide you into all truth", (John 16:12-15) but man says He doesn't, Then who do we believe? Because man does not understand something, does not mean God will not show him the truth, because He said He would. We are not children anymore or under tooters or guardians any more but have matured to Sons, calling Him father (The Epistle to the Galatians) And anything we ask, He will give us (1 John 5:14), For He is our wisdom (1 Cor. 1:29-31), and we have no need for anyone to teach us, for God will teach us (1 John 2:26-28).

Not only does the Spirit lead us into all truth, but it defends the Truth. I personally have had the Spirit rebuke a cult I was thinking about joining, when they said Jesus was just a good man. It came out of no where and instantly. They said I had the devil in me. It is easy for some to say we do not know all truth because they do not understand, but the secret things belong to God, but everything of the Gospel of Jesus The Christ and the Kingdom of God is revealed in truth to His Son's....not to the curious or idle. It was a mystery beforehand, But it was shown to us. (1 Cor. 15:51-53) (Eph. 5:31-33). A mystery that was hidden but now revealed (Col. 5:21-27). If we do not make up in our own mind our own doctrines, We will be lead into all Truth. The Church is suppose to be the pillars of Truth. (1 Tim. 3:15)

 

[MarkT]

Hi Mark, If Christ says, "the Spirit will guide you into all truth", (John 16:12-15) but man says He doesn't, Then who do we believe? Because man does not understand something, does not mean God will not show him the truth, because He said He would. We are not children anymore or under tooters or guardians any more but have matured to Sons, calling Him father (The Epistle to the Galatians) And anything we ask, He will give us (1 John 5:14), For He is our wisdom (1 Cor. 1:29-31), and we have no need for anyone to teach us, for God will teach us (1 John 2:26-28).

Not only does the Spirit lead us into all truth, but it defends the Truth. I personally have had the Spirit rebuke a cult I was thinking about joining, when they said Jesus was just a good man. It came out of no where and instantly. They said I had the devil in me. It is easy for some to say we do not know all truth because they do not understand, but the secret things belong to God, but everything of the Gospel of Jesus The Christ and the Kingdom of God is revealed in truth to His Son's....not to the curious or idle. It was a mystery beforehand, But it was shown to us. (1 Cor. 15:51-53) (Eph. 5:31-33). A mystery that was hidden but now revealed (Col. 5:21-27). If we do not make up in our own mind our own doctrines, We will be lead into all Truth. The Church is suppose to be the pillars of Truth. (1 Tim. 3:15)

I agree. The context is the disciples were not able to bear many things then, but when the Counsellor comes he will guide us into all the truth, and he will speak what he hears, and he will declare to us the things that are to come.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Hi Mark, If Christ says, "the Spirit will guide you into all truth", (John 16:12-15) but man says He doesn't, Then who do we believe? Because man does not understand something, does not mean God will not show him the truth, because He said He would. We are not children anymore or under tooters or guardians any more but have matured to Sons, calling Him father (The Epistle to the Galatians) And anything we ask, He will give us (1 John 5:14), For He is our wisdom (1 Cor. 1:29-31), and we have no need for anyone to teach us, for God will teach us (1 John 2:26-28).

Not only does the Spirit lead us into all truth, but it defends the Truth. I personally have had the Spirit rebuke a cult I was thinking about joining, when they said Jesus was just a good man. It came out of no where and instantly. They said I had the devil in me. It is easy for some to say we do not know all truth because they do not understand, but the secret things belong to God, but everything of the Gospel of Jesus The Christ and the Kingdom of God is revealed in truth to His Son's....not to the curious or idle. It was a mystery beforehand, But it was shown to us. (1 Cor. 15:51-53) (Eph. 5:31-33). A mystery that was hidden but now revealed (Col. 5:21-27). If we do not make up in our own mind our own doctrines, We will be lead into all Truth. The Church is suppose to be the pillars of Truth. (1 Tim. 3:15)

If the Spirit leads you into all Truth why don't you know it then? Why is your understanding limited? As is mine. Besides, that verse above is taken out of context. It doesn't mean what you think it means. This happens all the time with the Bible. People take a "verse" out of context and build a doctrine or theology around it.

No, YOU see through a glass dimly. You see ONLY in part. You do not see all Truth. This is true for all of us. And it's evidenced in the fact that you, and everyone else, knows only in part.

 

[Papa Zoom]

I agree. The context is the disciples were not able to bear many things then, but when the Counsellor comes he will guide us into all the truth, and he will speak what he hears, and he will declare to us the things that are to come.

Yes, to them but not to us! We know only in part. We do not, nor will we ever know fully this side of death.

 

[MarkT]

Yes, to them but not to us! We know only in part. We do not, nor will we ever know fully this side of death.

Isn't the Spirit active today? The promise of the Spirit is that he will guide us to all the truth, not some truth.

John 16:13
When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

I believe the Spirit does guide us to know what is true re. his word, because Jesus said the Spirit would take what is his ie. his word, and give it to us, so then we will know. And I believe he will declare to us the things that are to come.

But I agree we don't fully understand now.

1 Corinthians 13:12
For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood.

 

[Papa Zoom]

Isn't the Spirit active today? The promise of the Spirit is that he will guide us to all the truth, not some truth.

John 16:13
When the Spirit of truth comes, he will guide you into all the truth; for he will not speak on his own authority, but whatever he hears he will speak, and he will declare to you the things that are to come.

I believe the Spirit does guide us to know what is true re. his word, because Jesus said the Spirit would take what is his ie. his word, and give it to us, so then we will know. And I believe he will declare to us the things that are to come.

But I agree we don't fully understand now.

1 Corinthians 13:12
For now we see in a mirror dimly, but then face to face. Now I know in part; then I shall understand fully, even as I have been fully understood.

When I get questions like the first one above I know the person responding doesn't understand what I've been saying all along. I've posted my exact belief many times in this thread. Knowing some truth is not knowing all truth. And John 16:13 wasn't said to us. It's not a promise to us. In context, it was meant for a limited group.

 

[MarkT]

When I get questions like the first one above I know the person responding doesn't understand what I've been saying all along. I've posted my exact belief many times in this thread. Knowing some truth is not knowing all truth. And John 16:13 wasn't said to us. It's not a promise to us. In context, it was meant for a limited group.

I'm referring to John 16:13 and I'm disagreeing with your statement. 'Yes to them, but not to us." I disagree. Are we not disciples? Then how can you say, 'yes to them, but not to us'? The first disciples were the twelve, but the last will be the first to enter the kingdom. Mt. 20:16

RE. John 16:13 The Spirit of God gives those who possess the Spirit the ability to discern the truth. The truth re. sin and righteousness and judgment, and the truth re. things to come. The Spirit of God doesn't guide us to some truth and then leave us to make up our own truth. No. The Spirit guides us to all the truth.

The subject of this saying is the Spirit and the role of the Spirit ie. to guide us to all the truth. Makes no sense to argue how much truth.

 

[Papa Zoom]

I'm referring to John 16:13 and I'm disagreeing with your statement. 'Yes to them, but not to us." I disagree. Are we not disciples? Then how can you say, 'yes to them, but not to us'? The first disciples were the twelve, but the last will be the first to enter the kingdom. Mt. 20:16

RE. John 16:13 The Spirit of God gives those who possess the Spirit the ability to discern the truth. The truth re. sin and righteousness and judgment, and the truth re. things to come. The Spirit of God doesn't guide us to some truth and then leave us to make up our own truth. No. The Spirit guides us to all the truth.

The subject of this saying is the Spirit and the role of the Spirit ie. to guide us to all the truth. Makes no sense to argue how much truth.

All the truth is ALL. Do you know ALL the truth? No.

Here's a little later. 19 Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, Do ye inquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me? 20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.

Was this written to us? If not, why the previous verses but not these?

 

[Papa Zoom]

Jeremiah 29:11 For I know the plans that I have for you,' declares the LORD, 'plans for welfare and not for calamity to give you a future and a hope.

NOT written to you or anyone else reading this. Not even remotely about you or anyone reading this. Same as the above verse you think applies to Believers. It doesn't.

 

[JAG ..]

And John 16:13 wasn't said to us. It's not a promise to us.
In context, it was meant for a limited group.

That is the precise reason we can know for an absolute fact
that this verse is the absolute truth:

". . .evildoers and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving
and being deceived. But as for you, continue in what you have learned
and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom
you learned it, and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures,
which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting
and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly
equipped for every good work." 2 Timothy chapter 3

We have a name for this. We call it Apostolic Authority. You and I write some
"good stuff" now and then . . . but it ain't "God breathed."
_____

Great thread Mr. Zoom. You made some good points.

 

[MarkT]

All the truth is ALL. Do you know ALL the truth? No.

Here's a little later. 19 Now Jesus knew that they were desirous to ask him, and said unto them, Do ye inquire among yourselves of that I said, A little while, and ye shall not see me: and again, a little while, and ye shall see me? 20 Verily, verily, I say unto you, That ye shall weep and lament, but the world shall rejoice: and ye shall be sorrowful, but your sorrow shall be turned into joy.

Was this written to us? If not, why the previous verses but not these?

I know the gospel. I know what the apostles wrote. I know the OT proverbs and Psalms. The prophets to a lesser extent. I wouldn't say I know all the truth. But then again I would never say the Spirit of truth will not guide us into all the truth. The role of the Spirit is to guide us into all the truth. That's the truth.

Yep. Everything in the Bible is written for us. Believe it or not.

 

[Papa Zoom]

I know the gospel. I know what the apostles wrote. I know the OT proverbs and Psalms. The prophets to a lesser extent. I wouldn't say I know all the truth. But then again I would never say the Spirit of truth will not guide us into all the truth. The role of the Spirit is to guide us into all the truth. That's the truth.

Yep. Everything in the Bible is written for us. Believe it or not.

for us yes but not to us that was my earlier point

 

[JAG ..]

for us yes but not to us that was my earlier point

Here is a verse that strongly connects to John 16:13

Its John 14:26
"But the Advocate, the Holy Spirit, whom the Father will send
in my name, will teach you all things and will remind you of
everything I have said to you."

The "you" in John 14:26 was referring to the Disciples ONLY
and this truth laid the foundation for THEM writing the New Testament.
Which leads us right back to the 2 Timothy chapter 3 passage I quoted
earlier:

". . . evildoers and impostors will go from bad to worse, deceiving
and being deceived. But as for you, continue in what you have learned
and have become convinced of, because you know those from whom
you learned it, and how from infancy you have known the Holy Scriptures,
which are able to make you wise for salvation through faith in Christ Jesus.
All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting
and training in righteousness, so that the servant of God may be thoroughly
equipped for every good work." 2 Timothy chapter 3

_____

Compare . . .

John 16:13 "But when he, the Spirit of truth, comes, he will guide you into all the truth"

with

John 14:26 " the Holy Spirit . . . will teach you all things and will remind you of
everything I have said to you"

with the

2 Timothy chapter 3 text "All Scripture is God-breathed"

and you have the essence of the New Testament's doctrine that establishes Apostolic Authority.

 

[Douglas Summers]

If the Spirit leads you into all Truth why don't you know it then? Why is your understanding limited? As is mine. Besides, that verse above is taken out of context. It doesn't mean what you think it means. This happens all the time with the Bible. People take a "verse" out of context and build a doctrine or the

I'm referring to John 16:13 and I'm disagreeing with your statement. 'Yes to them, but not to us." I disagree. Are we not disciples? Then how can you say, 'yes to them, but not to us'? The first disciples were the twelve, but the last will be the first to enter the kingdom. Mt. 20:16

I'm afraid that we limit our self to fellowship and the sovereignty of the Holy Spirit in manifesting gifts of the ministry to us by thinking you can not know all Truth. What Truth is it you do not know that you need to make your calling and election sure? The Disciples had the same question throughout their calling, but Christ always either answered their questions or told them it was not for them to know (Acts 1:6-7). Here is God's Truth: To conform us to the image of Christ (Rom. 8:28-29). And here is our Truth: His divine power has given us everything we need for life and godliness through the knowledge of Him who called us (2 Pet. 1:2-4)

 

[Papa Zoom]

We are given all the Truth we need to make our election sure. We are given all that we need to run the race with endurance. I believe that the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth that we need, that will be beneficial to our growth as believers.

When I stated this thread I had in mind the many times someone said to me that the Holy Spirit revealed to them the meaning of this verse or that verse and then they proceed to explain. The problem was, I didn't agree with them one bit. It got me to wonder if people aren't simply filtering meaning of things they read (in this case the Bible) through their own biases and attributing the conclusion to the work of the Holy Spirit. I think that's the case most of the time.

 

[Douglas Summers]

We are given all the Truth we need to make our election sure. We are given all that we need to run the race with endurance. I believe that the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth that we need, that will be beneficial to our growth as believers.

When I stated this thread I had in mind the many times someone said to me that the Holy Spirit revealed to them the meaning of this verse or that verse and then they proceed to explain. The problem was, I didn't agree with them one bit. It got me to wonder if people aren't simply filtering meaning of things they read (in this case the Bible) through their own biases and attributing the conclusion to the work of the Holy Spirit. I think that's the case most of the time.

I agree. People tend to associate their own understanding as to being the Holy Spirit. (even Satan can quote Scripture). The biggest problem with the visible church is making the Church the recipients of all the promises of the Nation of Israel. God has made specific promises to His Body that do not apply to Israel, but both the Church and Israel make up the commonwealth (kingdom of God), but with different positions. God makes a distinction of the ethnic divisions in (1 Cor. 10:32) The Jew, The Gentile and the Church. If you are a born again believer (regenerated) God will not let you teach false doctrine. God does not judge us on what we do not know, for from the most fallible and weakest believer to the most illustrious saint, all have the same standing before God as saved. But our state is not as instant as our as our standing. We all must grow in grace (not into grace) but in the grace that we have received.

But God will judge those who teach as doctrine what they claim they know that is not of God's will. It is called trespassing. Trespassing is (self will intruding into the sphere of divine authority) (Eph. 2:1-2). Most trespassers usually quote some specific study that someone else did over the actual word of God. Scripture is Spiritual and is not subject to carnal logic. I have had teachings directly from God in the way of visions because I asked for the Truth, I had no trust in men, and I'am not favored above any other born again believer. Beware of those that do not know the difference between the religious and a born again believer and those who say that a man does not receive the Holy Spirit at the time of his trust in Christ. The very first thing that happens is that all the sin in your life that you were weighted down with has been lifted as you receive the Holy Spirit. Only the born again understand what I'am witnessing to.

Christ in us
Douglas Summers

 

[th1b.taylor]

We are given all the Truth we need to make our election sure. We are given all that we need to run the race with endurance. I believe that the Holy Spirit leads us into all truth that we need, that will be beneficial to our growth as believers.

When I stated this thread I had in mind the many times someone said to me that the Holy Spirit revealed to them the meaning of this verse or that verse and then they proceed to explain. The problem was, I didn't agree with them one bit. It got me to wonder if people aren't simply filtering meaning of things they read (in this case the Bible) through their own biases and attributing the conclusion to the work of the Holy Spirit. I think that's the case most of the time.

This post reminds me of my favorite saying. it is, "When we arrive in Heaven, either in the Spirit or in the Glorified Body, God will jerk all the knots out of our tails and straighten out our Corkscrewed Theology. We cannot avoid those filters. And I try to remember that each of us, the Saved, is at a different point of being sanctified and that the Holy Spirit is teaching each of us in ways that each individual can relate to. Knowing this, I look to see if it disagrees with what I believe or does the different take expand my own understanding? One thing is certain and there is much disagreement with but the Spirit never disagrees with itself and certainly not with the Written Word.

 

[GodsGrace]

Ok, kill me now. Or better yet, hear me out.

John 16:13 However, when the Spirit of truth comes, He will guide you into all truth. For He will not speak on His own, but He will speak what He hears, and He will declare to you what is to come.

People I've talked to always refer to this verse to explain that the Holy Spirit guides people into understanding the Truths of God's word. This has always confused me. That's because I've noticed that throughout my life, Christians have different understandings of what the Bible is saying on any given issue. So what's going on?

I don't think this verse means what people think it means. Clearly, the Holy Spirit doesn't guide any of into all truth because if He did, we'd know everything.

We'd all agree on everything because it would be from God. No divisions.

We wouldn't need each other for the "iron sharpens iron" thing because what's better that the HS?

AND if it were true that the HS guides us into ALL truth, then this verse seems contradictory.

1 Corinthians 13:12King James Version (KJV)
12 For now we see through a glass, darkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.

So chew on that and lets talk (nicely) about what this could mean. I think John 16:13 is quoted and applied out of its greater context. I'll share more on that later. I'd like to hear (positive and non-emotional) comments first to see if anyone has wondered about this as well.

I put this in apologetics because it has to do with understanding and defending what we believe to be true. A skeptic could ask how it is we don't know everything since we claim the HS will guide us into all truth.

Hi Papa Zoom,
What a great thread!
How many times have I mentioned this in the past two years --- many times.

So. Let's take a test and see how many different understandings we could come up with just for John 16:13 !

Just before this Jesus is talking about understanding what is to come, the cross. The Holy Spirit will guide us into understanding what happened at the cross.
We DO all seem to agree on that.

But then He goes on to say that the Holy Spirit will explain everything that Jesus said and did.

This is where the problems begin.
Did Jesus say we only need to believe to be saved?
Did He say some works are necessary?
Which ones?
Are we saved once and forever?
Or could we lose our salvation?

I think that perhaps one may go to a church and learn doctrine and then never think about it again so that when he enters into a conversation, he will always fall back on the doctrine he learned as a new Christian.

Maybe someone hears a nice sermon and likes what the pastor is saying and clings to that.

Maybe some doctrine is just easier to believe.

So why doesn't the Holy Spirit take care of the above problems?
Because as God made us human and with our limited resources, we will always take them with us. Perhaps we're not really open to the Holy Spirit, taking our sin nature with us wherever we go - even to learning about God.

Some ask did Jesus fail?
I don't think Jesus failed, I think we fail.
Paul, knowing our nature and what was already happening by the time he started to preach, said we see as in a mirror darkly and will not see everything clearly until we see Jesus face to face.

We tend to pluck verses out to confirm what we believe.
The bible is an entirely complete idea, but it's not easy to see it that way.

As for me, personally, I think I've understood correctly what I think I've understood; what I have doubts about, I don't insist.

With the full understanding that I might have everything wrong, but if I trust Jesus, He'll get me through.