Bible Study The Holy Spirit is a "Who", not a "What"

[GodsGrace]

Answer my questions first.

I already answered all of them once.
Anyway, which one??

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

I already answered all of them once.
Anyway, which one??

Ask a question once, why ask it again.....?

 

[GodsGrace]

If you think there are 20,000 denominations, then tell me how they differ?
If you can't, then you have simply chosen to believe what the internet tells you.
Which doesn't prove anything.

Oh. That's easy.
Take Calvinism.
There's the 5 point tulip.
The 4 1/2 point tulip.
The 4 point tulip.
The 4 point tulip that believes in free will.
etc etc

Every little, tiny idea gets a group going that breaks away from the group they're in,
and there you have it.

 

[GodsGrace]

Ask a question once, why ask it again.....?

Good!
No answer necessary!!
:wink

 

[GodsGrace]

Good!
No answer necessary!!
:wink

According to the Dictionary of Christianity in America [Protestant] (Downers Grove, IL: Intervarsity Press, 1990): "As of 1980 David B. Barrett identified 20,800 Christian denominations worldwide . . ." ("Denominationalism," page 351). I have this book, so I have seen this with my own eyes. Barrett "classified them into seven major blocs and 156 ecclesiastical traditions." This is from the Oxford World Christian Encyclopedia (1982) of which he is the editor. Also, according to the United Nations statistics there were over 23,000 competing and often contradictory denominations worldwide (World Census of Religious Activities [U.N. Information Center, NY, 1989]). This was cited in Frank Schaeffer's book Dancing Alone (Brookline, MA: Holy Cross Press, 1994), page 4. Schaeffer is Orthodox. The 1999 Encyclopedia of Christianity has this to say: "In 1985 David Barrett could count 22,150 distinct denominations worldwide." (edited by E. Fahlbusch, et al., Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1999, vol. 1, p. 800, s.v. "Denomination"). Barrett is the statistical editor. Again citing the Oxford World Christian Encyclopedia (1982): ". . . a projected 22,190 by 1985 . . . The present net increase is 270 denominations each year (five new ones a week)." (pages 15-18)

The definition Barrett worked with was that a denomination was "an organized Christian Church or tradition or religious group or community of believers or aggregate of worship centers or congregations, usually within a specific country, whose component congregations and members are called by the same name in different areas, regarding themselves as an autonomous Christian church distinct from other denominations, churches and traditions."

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Oh. That's easy.
Take Calvinism.
There's the 5 point tulip.
The 4 1/2 point tulip.
The 4 point tulip.
The 4 point tulip that believes in free will.
etc etc

Every little, tiny idea gets a group going that breaks away from the group they're in,
and there you have it.

In that case, there are no denominations in the world at all, because no two people agree on everything to begin with.

 

[GodsGrace]

In that case, there are no denominations in the world at all, because no two people agree on everything to begin with.

Agreed!

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

According to the Dictionary of Christianity in America [Protestant] (Downers Grove, IL: Intervarsity Press, 1990): "As of 1980 David B. Barrett identified 20,800 Christian denominations worldwide . . ." ("Denominationalism," page 351). I have this book, so I have seen this with my own eyes. Barrett "classified them into seven major blocs and 156 ecclesiastical traditions." This is from the Oxford World Christian Encyclopedia (1982) of which he is the editor. Also, according to the United Nations statistics there were over 23,000 competing and often contradictory denominations worldwide (World Census of Religious Activities [U.N. Information Center, NY, 1989]). This was cited in Frank Schaeffer's book Dancing Alone (Brookline, MA: Holy Cross Press, 1994), page 4. Schaeffer is Orthodox. The 1999 Encyclopedia of Christianity has this to say: "In 1985 David Barrett could count 22,150 distinct denominations worldwide." (edited by E. Fahlbusch, et al., Grand Rapids, MI: Eerdmans, 1999, vol. 1, p. 800, s.v. "Denomination"). Barrett is the statistical editor. Again citing the Oxford World Christian Encyclopedia (1982): ". . . a projected 22,190 by 1985 . . . The present net increase is 270 denominations each year (five new ones a week)." (pages 15-18)

May God himself, the God of peace, sanctify you through and through. May your whole spirit, soul and body be kept blameless at the coming of our Lord Jesus Christ.

That's pretty good that Dr. Bennett can keep track of thousands of denominations over the years while he continues to write dozens of other books.
Amazing.

He get's his info from the Oxford Christian Encyclopedia, of which he is editor.
He says if he finds one item that any two related groups don't agree on, he calls them a separate denomination, even if they have the same name.
Ridiculous.
By his terms, there really are no denominations, but by calling them denominations, it awes people with statistics and makes him sound credible.

 

[Corn Pop]

Oh Yeah!
I have a bible from 1816.
So there!

But I guarentee its fragile, you would not flick the page normal because you know it would fall apart. I have a late 1800s KJV and I don't read it for the reason it would just fall apart.

 

[GodsGrace]

OK.
But he's not the only one doing statistics.
I do believe there are a lot.
Thanks for checking my source.


you didn't get quoted!
Allen Wynne

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

OK.
But he's not the only one doing statistics.
I do believe there are a lot.
Thanks for checking my source.


you didn't get quoted!
Allen Wynne

And what does that mean?
I do statistics too.

 

[GodsGrace]

But I guarentee its fragile, you would not flick the page normal because you know it would fall apart. I have a late 1800s KJV and I don't read it for the reason it would just fall apart.

Your guarantee is accepted...
I'm afraid to look at it.
I keep thinking I should bring it somewhere to make it "safe".
It's going to crumble if Jesus doesn't come back soon.

 

[GodsGrace]

And what does that mean?
I do statistics too.

It means you MIGHT be right.
Don't get excited.
How many denominations do YOU believe are present?
And is this in the whole world, or just the U.S.?
And how does one describe a denomination?
I think we're off topic...

But to tie it in, how could there be ONE Holy Spirit...
and so many denominations???

 

[Winter Tapioca]

Ah, well, no answer and in light of that what the heck.
The Holy Spirit is a Spirit. That Spirit is God.
God is not a who, God is a verb. Spirit is the noun. And creation is the Adverb.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

Maybe the English language has got it all wrong.

 

[ezra]

Maybe the English language has got it all wrong.

and you do?

 

[for_his_glory]

The Holy Spirit is simply the Spirit of God and is referred to being part of the trinity that is Father, Son (Jesus), and the Holy Ghost. God is a Spirit and wants us to worship or another word for worship is to humble ourselves before him in spirit and truth. John 4:24

You will not find the word trinity in any Bible, but according to the American Heritage Dictionary it means a group consisting of three closely related members. Trinity, the union of three divine figures, the Father, Son (Jesus) and the Holy Ghost in one Godhead.

The Spirit of God was made flesh (Jesus) to walk among us teaching us and showing signs and wonders for the people to repent of their evil ways and come back to God, John 1:1-5. Jesus is part of the Godhead and before he ascended to Heaven to sit at the right hand of the Father to make intercession for us he promised his disciples that he would send another comforter that would teach them all things and bring those things back to their remembrance. John 14:26

Why doesn’t God speak to us the same way he did to his prophets in the Old Testament days? Gods’ spirit spoke to many prophets throughout the Old Testament through pillars of clouds a burning bush a donkey or spoke with visions through dreams. Many fill that God is completely silent and does not speak anymore, but this is wrong as Gods Spirit speaks to us now through his written word as his Holy Spirit inspired those disciples of long ago to write down their witness of the teachings of God as they testified of Christ.

Those disciples walked with Jesus having a firsthand account of his teachings, but yet had no understanding other than knowing that Jesus was truly sent from God as signs and wonders followed him for confirmation that he truly was of God as no man could do the things Jesus did apart from God. We too have seen those very same signs and wonders that have touched other people’s lives by the Holy Spirit working through others as a witness and testimony of Gods mercy and grace.

God is very much alive and active in our lives today and still speaks to us through his prophets which are his disciples who have given us their accounts of walking with Jesus and being inspired by the Holy Spirit to write their individual accounts so we might also come into that same adoption through baptism of the Holy Spirit to have the mind of Christ for understanding that brings knowledge of the truths of Gods word so we can rightly divide the word of truth.

 

[Winter Tapioca]

Maybe the English language has got it all wrong.

Quite possibly given tenses and other considerations in our grammar.
The New Testament was written in Greek. Jesus spoke Aramaic. His Apostles would have spoken Aramaic. And as they were what we'd call blue collar in their time, they were also not highly educated. There was no scribe that traveled with the 12 and Jesus, taking notes , keeping a journal.
When the ministry continued after Jesus returned to Heaven, the gospel was oral. Delivered by word to those whom the Apostles encountered.
What we have today isn't what the Apostles wrote. This is why in the other thread that gains no interest apparently, the canonnicity, even the authenticity of NT books, are discussed as having long been an issue. Even as far back as the early church. And also with considering the Canonization process.

I think a great metaphor concerning the translation from Jesus lips unto today is to look at how many versions of God's word there are in print.

 

[Rollo Tamasi]

and you do?

And I do what?
Sounds you need English lessons.
What you just answered me makes no sense.

 

[th1b.taylor]

Quite possibly given tenses and other considerations in our grammar.
The New Testament was written in Greek. Jesus spoke Aramaic. His Apostles would have spoken Aramaic. And as they were what we'd call blue collar in their time, they were also not highly educated. There was no scribe that traveled with the 12 and Jesus, taking notes , keeping a journal.
When the ministry continued after Jesus returned to Heaven, the gospel was oral. Delivered by word to those whom the Apostles encountered.
What we have today isn't what the Apostles wrote. This is why in the other thread that gains no interest apparently, the canonnicity, even the authenticity of NT books, are discussed as having long been an issue. Even as far back as the early church. And also with considering the Canonization process.

I think a great metaphor concerning the translation from Jesus lips unto today is to look at how many versions of God's word there are in print.

I have said it over and over but i will say it again. God is able, period, and I know doubt is not the product of my Father. God has promised to keep His Word pure and God never lies and is never wrong.

And God has said anything, it matters. If God says a thing twice it is important but if God says a thing 3 times or more our inner alarm should be excitedly be going off. God has said three times that He keeps the Word pure and therefore, regardless of Opinions about possible past events, I believe God has guided the Translators on every version, save the New World Translation, completed for the Jehovah's Witness' that,even, many of them will not use. Aside from that one, almost unknown version, i have compared a number of the translations, the NASB, the NIV, the ASB, the ESV, the KJV, the NKJV and a few others, guess what, they might say this or they might use different words but they all end up with the same meaning save the NWT.