The Holy Spirit

[theTruthful]

no, i dont believe you are going to hell. but i dont think it is a light thing to say that all believers have the Holy Spirit just because they believe in Jesus. that means that they will never ask the Father for this Comforter and Teacher. they will never receive the Paraclete that Jesus meant for them to have. to me it is very plain from Holy scripture that it is two separate things. i love you man, and i know God does too... but just taking an intellectual idea that someone preached over receiving the Spirit of God. well forgive me if i dont speak lightly of that.

 

[glorydaz]

no, i dont believe you are going to hell. but i dont think it is a light thing to say that all believers have the Holy Spirit just because they believe in Jesus. that means that they will never ask the Father for this Comforter and Teacher. they will never receive the Paraclete that Jesus meant for them to have. to me it is very plain from Holy scripture that it is two separate things. i love you man, and i know God does too... but just taking an intellectual idea that someone preached over receiving the Spirit of God. well forgive me if i dont speak lightly of that.

Believers have the indwelling Spirit or they aren't really believers or saved.

Jesus answered and said unto him, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born again, he cannot see the kingdom of God. Nicodemus saith unto him, How can a man be born when he is old? can he enter the second time into his mother's womb, and be born? Jesus answered, Verily, verily, I say unto thee, Except a man be born of water and of the Spirit, he cannot enter into the kingdom of God. That which is born of the flesh is flesh; and that which is born of the Spirit is spirit. Marvel not that I said unto thee, Ye must be born again. The wind bloweth where it listeth, and thou hearest the sound thereof, but canst not tell whence it cometh, and whither it goeth: so is every one that is born of the Spirit.

Wherefore he saith, Awake thou that sleepest, and arise from the dead, and Christ shall give thee light. See then that ye walk circumspectly, not as fools, but as wise, Redeeming the time, because the days are evil. Wherefore be ye not unwise, but understanding what the will of the Lord is. And be not drunk with wine, wherein is excess; but be filled with the Spirit; Speaking to yourselves in psalms and hymns and spiritual songs, singing and making melody in your heart to the Lord; Giving thanks always for all things unto God and the Father in the name of our Lord Jesus Christ;

However, we can quench the Spirit by not yielding to his guidance.

Quench not the Spirit.

This is where obedience comes in...as we submit to the indwelling spirit, we renew our mind and put on the new man. Then the power of the Holy Spirit can be manifest in the life of the believer. The love of God can be shown forth and the fruit of the Spirit is bountiful.

That ye put off concerning the former conversation the old man, which is corrupt according to the deceitful lusts; And be renewed in the spirit of your mind; And that ye put on the new man, which after God is created in righteousness and true holiness. Wherefore putting away lying, speak every man truth with his neighbour: for we are members one of another. Be ye angry, and sin not: let not the sun go down upon your wrath: Neither give place to the devil. Let him that stole steal no more: but rather let him labour, working with his hands the thing which is good, that he may have to give to him that needeth. Let no corrupt communication proceed out of your mouth, but that which is good to the use of edifying, that it may minister grace unto the hearers. And grieve not the holy Spirit of God, whereby ye are sealed unto the day of redemption. Let all bitterness, and wrath, and anger, and clamour, and evil speaking, be put away from you, with all malice: And be ye kind one to another, tenderhearted, forgiving one another, even as God for Christ's sake hath forgiven you.

 

[theTruthful]

if you dont receive the Holy Spirit of God after you have believed in Jesus, then you are not being led by the Spirit. lets put it this way. it would be a good idea, whether you think so or not, to say something like, "Father God, if I don't already have the Holy Spirit, then I ask you for Him right now in the name of Jesus."

what you are saying will lead people to believe that they have the Holy Spirit when they do not. and that causes great confusion in their lives as they will be trying to do everything on their own power.

i will be making lots more videos like these i shared, except i will post them on my website, which i just finished today. feel free to check it out at sold2theword.com

 

[Anth]

Truth

If you want to add some of the material I provided, feel free - no charge for the teaching...(you can always tell genuine disciples - they don't charge for the Lord's truth - they simply lift Him all so that all men might be drawn to Him... )

 

[glorydaz]

if you dont receive the Holy Spirit of God after you have believed in Jesus, then you are not being led by the Spirit. lets put it this way. it would be a good idea, whether you think so or not, to say something like, "Father God, if I don't already have the Holy Spirit, then I ask you for Him right now in the name of Jesus."

what you are saying will lead people to believe that they have the Holy Spirit when they do not. and that causes great confusion in their lives as they will be trying to do everything on their own power.

i will be making lots more videos like these i shared, except i will post them on my website, which i just finished today. feel free to check it out at sold2theword.com

LOL...sorry, I think I'll just read the Word. The Holy Spirit is not doled out to certain people. Everyone who is born again receives the Spirit. There is no confusion among the saints. The confusion comes when man thinks he knows more than the Word of God and the Spirit that indwells the believer.

Oh...I don't need to be told how to pray...thank you very much. The Holy Spirit is the only teacher I need or want...and He lives in me. :amen

 

[mutzrein]

if you dont receive the Holy Spirit of God after you have believed in Jesus, then you are not being led by the Spirit. lets put it this way. it would be a good idea, whether you think so or not, to say something like, "Father God, if I don't already have the Holy Spirit, then I ask you for Him right now in the name of Jesus."

what you are saying will lead people to believe that they have the Holy Spirit when they do not. and that causes great confusion in their lives as they will be trying to do everything on their own power.

i will be making lots more videos like these i shared, except i will post them on my website, which i just finished today. feel free to check it out at sold2theword.com

Sorry that I've jumped in on your post to someone else but I would like your response to this if you would. I would like to continue to discuss the Holy Spirit with you as I like the 'spirit' of your posts.

If you have not received the Holy Spirit, ie you have not been born of God, how can you call him Father?

I would also like to know what you believe it means to be born again.

 

[theTruthful]

scripture makes it clear that the Holy Spirit is the one who raised Jesus from the dead. it also makes it clear that He is the one who raises us from the dead. to be born again is very simple. God told Adam in the day that he would eat of that fruit he would surely die. well, Adam did die that day spiritually. death really just means separation. eternal death is eternal separation from God. it did not mean that Adam did not have a spirit, but that his spirit was dead. well, we all must be born AGAIN as Jesus said. it is by the Holy Spirit that we are born again. like your signature says, the Spirit gives birth to the spirit.

however, just because the Holy Spirit has recreated you a new creature in Christ, and the Spirit of Christ dwells in you, does not mean that you have the Holy Spirit living on the inside of you. that would be what Galatians 4:6 is talking about: "And because you are sons, God has sent forth the Spirit of his Son into your hearts, crying, Abba, Father." Jesus Christ is a man, and therefore he possesses his own spirit that is a separate entity from God's Holy Spirit. you can receive the spirit of God's son, and not be "endued with power from on High."

let me ask this question for everyone still saying that you receive the Holy Spirit the moment you believe in Jesus, the 120 in the upper room on the day of Pentecost.... were they not saved until the Holy Spirit fell on them that day? if that is true, then you had 120 men who were spiritually dead praying to God and only when the Holy Spirit came in there, they were saved. in that case, salvation would not just be about confessing and believing in your heart that Jesus is Lord, it would also entail waiting on the Spirit until He shows up.

that is silly.... those men were saved. they were new creations of God. they had the Spirit of God's Son crying out from that upper room, "ABBA! FATHER!" and God was absolutely pleased to pour out His Spirit upon them, so that they would be His holy temples! they received power from on high and left that upper room doing many signs and wonders!

when is the last time you laid hands on someone and they were healed? when will the church finally admit to its stubborn pride and receive the Holy Spirit with all His power and do His glorious works in bringing many to salvation, rather than preach intellectual doctrine with no fire of the Holy Spirit to follow?

 

[mutzrein]

I want to make a point as succinctly as possible. The Spirit gives life. There is no such thing as a dead spirit. Our spirit’s are not reborn from some dead or separated-from-God state. The Holy Spirit does not come into our old dead spirit in order to revive it and give us eternal life. Can new wine be put into old wineskin? No. When the Spirit of God indwells man it gives BIRTH to his spirit. And in the same way that physical birth takes place without any decision being made by the child to be born, so it is when man is born of the Spirit.

The problem is man thinks that he can invoke the birth of his spirit by means of intellectual assent. This is the reason that our churches are filled with many people who ‘believe’ in order to be ‘saved’ yet in reality they are devoid of the Spirit. It is no wonder then that these churches are filled to overflowing with folks attracted to a ‘feel good’ gospel but since they lack the Spirit, they are in effect dead.

 

[theTruthful]

mutzrein, so you are saying that unsaved people have no spirit whatsoever?

because that is not biblical, and does not make sense. people don't just have spirits. they ARE spirits. ever since God made man out of the dust of the ground, and then breathed life into his nostrils, man has been a spirit who resides in a body.

as you said the spirit does come from the Spirit, but you have to remember that God breathed His Spirit into Adam and what Adam did with that. he died spiritually, like a tree branch that is cast forth from a tree. it may still look the same for a while, but it is only a matter of time until it shrivels up and dies.

death on earth is only one effect of spiritual death. and if there are no such thing as dead spirits, why did Jesus say, "Let the dead bury their dead." ? or in James does it say, "For as the body without the spirit is dead,....."

bodies dont operate unless a spirit is living on the inside of it.

 

[mutzrein]

mutzrein, so you are saying that unsaved people have no spirit whatsoever?

because that is not biblical, and does not make sense. people don't just have spirits. they ARE spirits. ever since God made man out of the dust of the ground, and then breathed life into his nostrils, man has been a spirit who resides in a body.

as you said the spirit does come from the Spirit, but you have to remember that God breathed His Spirit into Adam and what Adam did with that. he died spiritually, like a tree branch that is cast forth from a tree. it may still look the same for a while, but it is only a matter of time until it shrivels up and dies.

death on earth is only one effect of spiritual death. and if there are no such thing as dead spirits, why did Jesus say, "Let the dead bury their dead." ? or in James does it say, "For as the body without the spirit is dead,....."

bodies dont operate unless a spirit is living on the inside of it.

I'm having trouble understanding your logic. You've said that Adam died spiritually so how did his body operate since it didn't have a spirit living on the inside of it.

Another point, scripture doesn't say that God breathed his Spirit into Adam. It says he breathed 'the breath of life' into him.

As far as the dead buring the dead is concerned, the dead are those who are outside of the kingdom of God - those to whom (eternal) life would not be given. What has got to do with those who are chosen of God (his children).

 

[Rick W]

I'm having trouble understanding your logic. You've said that Adam died spiritually so how did his body operate since it didn't have a spirit living on the inside of it.

Another point, scripture doesn't say that God breathed his Spirit into Adam. It says he breathed 'the breath of life' into him.

As far as the dead buring the dead is concerned, the dead are those who are outside of the kingdom of God - those to whom (eternal) life would not be given. What has got to do with those who are chosen of God (his children).

I believe a spirit can be dead to Christ but alive in evil through the sinful nature.
"breathed his Spirit into Adam. It says he breathed 'the breath of life' into him."

Yes, of course. God's spirit is life. One with a sinful nature that is of the world, of the earth, cannot walk with God. He is dead to God.

 

[Rick W]

Oh, almost forgot another point.
Eve was not created from the earth but from Adam who had the spirit of God in him. Nowhere did it say that God breathed His spirit into Eve.

 

[Fembot]

So, what does that say about Eve?

 

[LaCrum]

I think that Adam's spiritual death was along the lines of a death in the relationship that once existed between God and man. And, as born again believers, our spirit is renewed/rebirthed by the Holy Spirit which puts us into a right relationship with God once again.

 

[Rick W]

So, what does that say about Eve?

I don't know. Good question though since God breathed life into Adam but not Eve.
And the animals were created from the ground also. But again, not Eve.

 

[mutzrein]

I don’t wish to argue merely on the basis of ‘I’m right and your wrong’. I believe people add to scripture, not intentionally to lie or deceive but many are brought up or taught to believe certain things and they adopt these things as their premise or base line rather that the word of God. And I don’t mean just the things written in scripture. I mean the Word of God revealed to man by the quickening of the Holy Spirit.

I have picked up from ‘theTruthful’ a point which needs challenging - to start with. He said, ‘God told Adam in the day that he would eat of that fruit he would surely die. well, Adam did die that day spiritually. death really just means separation. Eternal death is eternal separation from God’.

I disagree. Death is the absence of life. You see, up until the point that Adam sinned, he was not barred from the Tree of Life because we know that when he sinned he WAS barred to prevent him from eating of it and living forever. He was barred from having eternal life.
So if Adam had been spiritually alive prior to sinning (and therefore able to die spiritually because of his sin) what is the point of the tree of life? Was he an eternal being prior to sinning?
And if anyone says Adam died spiritually, what would have been his ‘spiritual’ state had he not sinned?

I believe that man has only ever been made spiritually alive through Christ – who I believe is the Tree of Life. Christ came that man might have life – eternal life. The gospel that Jesus brought was the good news of the ‘Kingdom of Heaven’ or ‘Kingdom of God’. “The kingdom of heaven is near†Jesus said. And what is this kingdom? Eternal Life! Speaking prophetically when asked when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus said, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."

If Jesus had not died, conquered sin and death and returned to the Father, then the Spirit of Life which dwelt within Christ could not have been sent.

I see people here just making stuff up – probably all on the basis of what they have been taught to believe, rather than scripture and the revelation that comes through the word of God.
Scripture plainly says that the Spirit gives BIRTH to our spirit. It doesn’t say that it revives it. Listen – as a result of Adam’s sin, Man was DEAD in trespasses and sin. Does scripture say anywhere that man was dead to God or dead to Christ and yet alive spiritually? That is a fallacy. It is the spirit that gives life (eternal life). If we are not born of the Spirit (a spirit born within us) then we remain dead. We remain outside of the Kingdom of God.

Come on folks – think about what scripture says rather than evoke a belief that has no basis in scripture. To say that Adam just dies to God so that he couldn’t have a relationship with God is nonsense.

We know that the result of Adam’s sin was passed to ALL men. If that was the case then no man could have a relationship with God until Christ. Plainly this is not true. What in fact was the case was that Adam was barred from the tree of life (eternal life). And this was something that was maintained until the Word became flesh. Remember - Christ came that man might have life – eternal life.

And you people also need to consider that it wasn’t only the Adamic race that had the breath of life – the animals did too! So what does that tell you?

 

[seekandlisten]

I don’t wish to argue merely on the basis of ‘I’m right and your wrong’. I believe people add to scripture, not intentionally to lie or deceive but many are brought up or taught to believe certain things and they adopt these things as their premise or base line rather that the word of God. And I don’t mean just the things written in scripture. I mean the Word of God revealed to man by the quickening of the Holy Spirit.

I have picked up from ‘theTruthful’ a point which needs challenging - to start with. He said, ‘God told Adam in the day that he would eat of that fruit he would surely die. well, Adam did die that day spiritually. death really just means separation. Eternal death is eternal separation from God’.

I disagree. Death is the absence of life. You see, up until the point that Adam sinned, he was not barred from the Tree of Life because we know that when he sinned he WAS barred to prevent him from eating of it and living forever. He was barred from having eternal life.
So if Adam had been spiritually alive prior to sinning (and therefore able to die spiritually because of his sin) what is the point of the tree of life? Was he an eternal being prior to sinning?
And if anyone says Adam died spiritually, what would have been his ‘spiritual’ state had he not sinned?

I believe that man has only ever been made spiritually alive through Christ – who I believe is the Tree of Life. Christ came that man might have life – eternal life. The gospel that Jesus brought was the good news of the ‘Kingdom of Heaven’ or ‘Kingdom of God’. “The kingdom of heaven is near†Jesus said. And what is this kingdom? Eternal Life! Speaking prophetically when asked when the kingdom of God would come, Jesus said, "The kingdom of God does not come with your careful observation, nor will people say, 'Here it is,' or 'There it is,' because the kingdom of God is within you."

If Jesus had not died, conquered sin and death and returned to the Father, then the Spirit of Life which dwelt within Christ could not have been sent.

I see people here just making stuff up – probably all on the basis of what they have been taught to believe, rather than scripture and the revelation that comes through the word of God.
Scripture plainly says that the Spirit gives BIRTH to our spirit. It doesn’t say that it revives it. Listen – as a result of Adam’s sin, Man was DEAD in trespasses and sin. Does scripture say anywhere that man was dead to God or dead to Christ and yet alive spiritually? That is a fallacy. It is the spirit that gives life (eternal life). If we are not born of the Spirit (a spirit born within us) then we remain dead. We remain outside of the Kingdom of God.

Come on folks – think about what scripture says rather than evoke a belief that has no basis in scripture. To say that Adam just dies to God so that he couldn’t have a relationship with God is nonsense.

We know that the result of Adam’s sin was passed to ALL men. If that was the case then no man could have a relationship with God until Christ. Plainly this is not true. What in fact was the case was that Adam was barred from the tree of life (eternal life). And this was something that was maintained until the Word became flesh. Remember - Christ came that man might have life – eternal life.

And you people also need to consider that it wasn’t only the Adamic race that had the breath of life – the animals did too! So what does that tell you?

Amen!

 

[theTruthful]

whoa, whoa, whoa... making stuff up?

what part of God saying to Adam, "The day you eat of that tree, you will die." doesnt make sense?

if Adam was not alive, then how could he die? what part of Adam died when He ate of that tree? or should I say what "you" was God talking about that He said would die? or was God just telling fibs that day?

if we cant establish this simple idea as a basis for mutual understanding, i cant explain anything any further.

 

[mutzrein]

whoa, whoa, whoa... making stuff up?

what part of God saying to Adam, "The day you eat of that tree, you will die." doesnt make sense?

if Adam was not alive, then how could he die? what part of Adam died when He ate of that tree? or should I say what "you" was God talking about that He said would die? or was God just telling fibs that day?

if we cant establish this simple idea as a basis for mutual understanding, i cant explain anything any further.

Actually, I thought I had explained it. Prior to the 'fall', Adam had access to the tree of life. After the fall, he was cut off from it. He was dead.

Yes I agree that it would be helpful to know that we both stood on a solid foundation and therefore had mutual understanding. Because if we don’t, then no matter what we say, we won't be able to build on it.

 

[glorydaz]

Adam was made in the image of God...God is spirit, so Adam had a spirit.
It was Adam's spirit that died that day he sinned.
It is through our spirit we have fellowship with God.

It's sin that separates us from God.

Behold, the LORD's hand is not shortened, that it cannot save; neither his ear heavy, that it cannot hear: But your iniquities have separated between you and your God, and your sins have hid his face from you, that he will not hear.

Those who die in their sins will be eternally separated from God.

In flaming fire taking vengeance on them that know not God, and that obey not the gospel of our Lord Jesus Christ: Who shall be punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of his power;

When Adam sinned, his spirit died. It is through Jesus Christ we are born again unto eternal life.

For the wages of sin is death; but the gift of God is eternal life through Jesus Christ our Lord.

We were all dead in our sins until we were quickened with Jesus.

And you, being dead in your sins and the uncircumcision of your flesh, hath he quickened together with him, having forgiven you all trespasses;

We know that Abraham, David and other OT saints looked forward to Christ and by faith were saved...
The Spirit of God quickens the spirit of man.

Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me hath everlasting life.