The Image Of The Beast

[Jim Parker]

It's really not futile to be Spiritually prepared for that which is yet to come. By studying Revelations we will be prepared Spiritually for that which is about to be released here on earth by the hands of man and then also by the hand of God. It's a lesson of learning great faith and trust in the Lord and to be physically and Spiritually prepared until the return of Christ.

Being "spiritually prepared" is not the same as trying to figure out exactly what a piece of an apocalyptic vision means. (And then arguing about it with people who come up with a different idea.)

We become "spiritually prepared" by prayer, reading the word, and being faithful to Jesus' commands.

iakov the fool

 

[Jim Parker]

Sinthesis, it has always been the Roman Empire that persecutes Gods children from the time of Nebuchadnezzar, and even before him, taking Israel (being Gods children) captive until the day of the Lords return. Who do you think it was that crucified Christ other than the Roman Empire. You really have to go back into history of Babylon to understand what is facing us in the future.

There was no Roman Empire at the time of the Babylonian empire. The Babylonians destroyed Jerusalem in 587 BC. The Romans didn't take over Jerusalem until 63 BC.You're off by over 500 years.

The Book of Esther is about the attempt of Haman the Persian to exterminate all the Jews in the Persian Empire.

Before The Babylonians, the Assyrians took the northern kingdom into exile by 722 BC. They weren't Romans.

In the modern era, no one is more notorious for persecution of the Jews than Adolf Hitler. He certainly was not the leader of the Roman Empire. Prior to Hitler, the Tsars of Russia persecuted the Jews.

Today the Jews are subjected to the murderous and insane wrath of the Muslims. They're not Romans either.

I hope you haven't built a "theology" on the foundation of the false idea that "it has always been the Roman Empire that persecutes Gods children". That's a house of cards that won't stand in the slightest breeze.

iakov the fool

 

[for_his_glory]

First I never argue the word of God with anyone as that is never pleasing to the Lord. There are two types of Christians when it comes to studying the word of God. You have followers in the word that is taught by others and you have diggers in the word and I am a digger that wants to know truth and what to expect. It doesn't mean I do not trust God or lack any faith in Him to be Spiritually prepared and prayed up, it means I want a deeper understanding of those things which will come to past. I never ask people to ever agree with me, but take the scriptures I give and ask that the Holy Spirit give them understanding.

 

[Jim Parker]

Rev 17:18 And the woman which thou sawest is that great city, which reigneth over the kings of the earth. (Women in the bible often refer to religious organizations.)

In this case, the woman refers to the economic system of the world as evidenced by who mourns for her when she is destroyed; kings and merchants, not worshipers.

KINGS: Rev 18:9-10 (NKJV) “The kings of the earth who committed fornication and lived luxuriously with her will weep and lament for her, when they see the smoke of her burning, standing at a distance for fear of her torment, saying, ‘Alas, alas, that great city Babylon, that mighty city! For in one hour your judgment has come.’

MERCHANTS: Rev 18:11-13 (NKJV) “And the merchants of the earth will weep and mourn over her, for no one buys their merchandise anymore: merchandise of gold and silver, precious stones and pearls, fine linen and purple, silk and scarlet, every kind of citron wood, every kind of object of ivory, every kind of object of most precious wood, bronze, iron, and marble; and cinnamon and incense, fragrant oil and frankincense, wine and oil, fine flour and wheat, cattle and sheep, horses and chariots, and bodies and souls of men.

iakov the fool

 

[Jim Parker]

There are two types of Christians when it comes to studying the word of God. You have followers in the word that is taught by others and you have diggers in the word and I am a digger that wants to know truth and what to expect.

Edited

And,yes, you are correct, it behooves each of us to know what the Bible actually says.

iakov the fool

 

[Jim Parker]

It's a lesson of learning great faith and trust in the Lord and to be physically and Spiritually prepared until the return of Christ.

That lesson can be learned without ever opening the book of Revelation.
Revelation is the writers best effort to report his apocalyptic visions in human language. Specifics gleaned from reading it are highly subjective in nature.

 

[Sinthesis]

Sinthesis, it has always been the Roman Empire that persecutes Gods children from the time of Nebuchadnezzar, and even before him, taking Israel (being Gods children) captive until the day of the Lords return. Who do you think it was that crucified Christ other than the Roman Empire. You really have to go back into history of Babylon to understand what is facing us in the future.

Nebuchadnezzar was sent by God as judgment against a Judah corrupted by apostasy. The captive Jews were refined in the process, and their influence on Babylon made it a better nation, though still deserving of judgment by God through the hands of the gentile messiah Cyrus.

Jer 27:6 - And now have I given all these lands into the hand ofNebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, my servant; and the beasts of the field have I given him also to serve him.
Jer 27:7 - And all nations shall serve him, and his son, and his son's son, until the very time of his land come: and then many nations and great kings shall serve themselves of him.
Jer 27:8 - And it shall come to pass, that the nation and kingdom which will not serve the same Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, and that will not put their neck under the yoke of the king of Babylon, that nation will I punish, saith the LORD, with the sword, and with the famine, and with the pestilence, until I have consumed them by his hand.

1Ch 6:15 - And Jehozadak went into captivity, when the LORD carried away Judah and Jerusalem by the hand of Nebuchadnezzar.

Dan 7:4 - The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.

Isa 44:28 - That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid.​

Ezr 1:2 - Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah.​

Of course the Pagan Roman Empire crucified Christ, but it was Jesus' own people to whom Christ was sent who orchestrated His murder. Think about how Joseph's brothers who sold him into slavery were more despicable than the Egyptians who enslaved him, yet all was done as part of a plan.

Jhn 19:11 - Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
​

The Roman Catholic Church is not equivalent to the pagan Roman Empire, just as you being a Christian are no longer the lost sinner you were before Jesus changed you for the better.

 

[Jim Parker]

never mind

 

[Jim Parker]

Edited

 

[for_his_glory]

The seven heads and ten horns refer to the original ten kingdoms of which three were subdued by the little horn of Daniel 7:8. The last kingdom which stands greater than all the others is that of a revived Roman Empire that takes control over all the ten nations who then implements a deceiving peace treaty to a world that is in great distress. Below is that of the seven kingdoms described as four beasts in Daniel 7:1-8 and the three kingdoms that were subdued by the little horn, which is the Roman Empire.

The three kingdoms that were subdued by the little horn of Daniel 7:24 are the Heruli, Vandals, and Ostrogoths who were eliminated by the year 538 AD under the leadership of the Eastern Roman Emperor Justinian whose deadly wound came in 1798. The wound was largely healed in 1929 when Mussolini gave the Vatican back to the Pope and established it as a country in it's own right in the Lateran Treaty. Today the Vatican has formal diplomatic relations with almost every country in the world.

Seven remaining nations that still exist today explains the dream Daniel interpreted for Nebuchadnezzar in Daniel Chapter 2 with the last great nation being the Roman Empire, which is now the revived Roman Empire.

Babylonian Empire:
(Iraq) The lion represents the winged lions that guarded the royal places of Babylon.

Medo – Persian Empire:
(Iran) The ribs of the bear are part of the consuming greed that devours the first empire.

Grecian Empire:
(Greece, Turkey, Syria, Egypt) Four wings of the leopard described the swiftness of this empire that ran from 334-331BC. It wrestled world dominion from Medo-Persia. After the death of Alexander the Great the kingdom was divided into four minor kingdoms that continued as prominent factors in world politics until the Roman Empire gathered it back as one kingdom.

Roman Empire:
Iron represents the stronghold this nation had. Daniel chapter 2 mentions the iron element of this empire that it to will be divided and broken as God will set up a kingdom that will never be destroyed.

 

[for_his_glory]

Jehovah's Witnesses and Mormons would consider themselves to be "diggers."

You also have those who are students who study under scholars who are far better equipped than the average person to do the digging. The notion that any Joe Blow with a 4th grade reading level and his KJV is just as qualified as a scholar who is fluent in the ancient languages of scripture and has made his life work the study of the Bible is nonsense.

In other words, some people have better shovels. It's probably a good idea to hear what they have to say.

And,yes, you are correct, it behooves each of us to know what the Bible actually says.


iakov the fool

It matters not what age or who your earthly teacher is, what matters is that you are being taught by the Holy Spirit and not mans interpretations as we need to know that it is the Holy Spirit working through others to teach us, 1John 4:1-4.

 

[for_his_glory]

Nebuchadnezzar was sent by God as judgment against a Judah corrupted by apostasy. The captive Jews were refined in the process, and their influence on Babylon made it a better nation, though still deserving of judgment by God through the hands of the gentile messiah Cyrus.

Jer 27:6 - And now have I given all these lands into the hand ofNebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, my servant; and the beasts of the field have I given him also to serve him.
Jer 27:7 - And all nations shall serve him, and his son, and his son's son, until the very time of his land come: and then many nations and great kings shall serve themselves of him.
Jer 27:8 - And it shall come to pass, that the nation and kingdom which will not serve the same Nebuchadnezzar the king of Babylon, and that will not put their neck under the yoke of the king of Babylon, that nation will I punish, saith the LORD, with the sword, and with the famine, and with the pestilence, until I have consumed them by his hand.

1Ch 6:15 - And Jehozadak went into captivity, when the LORD carried away Judah and Jerusalem by the hand of Nebuchadnezzar.

Dan 7:4 - The first was like a lion, and had eagle's wings: I beheld till the wings thereof were plucked, and it was lifted up from the earth, and made stand upon the feet as a man, and a man's heart was given to it.




Isa 44:28 - That saith of Cyrus, He is my shepherd, and shall perform all my pleasure: even saying to Jerusalem, Thou shalt be built; and to the temple, Thy foundation shall be laid.​

Ezr 1:2 - Thus saith Cyrus king of Persia, The LORD God of heaven hath given me all the kingdoms of the earth; and he hath charged me to build him an house at Jerusalem, which is in Judah.​

Of course the Pagan Roman Empire crucified Christ, but it was Jesus' own people to whom Christ was sent who orchestrated His murder. Think about how Joseph's brothers who sold him into slavery were more despicable than the Egyptians who enslaved him, yet all was done as part of a plan.

Jhn 19:11 - Jesus answered, Thou couldest have no power at all against me, except it were given thee from above: therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin.
​

The Roman Catholic Church is not equivalent to the pagan Roman Empire, just as you being a Christian are no longer the lost sinner you were before Jesus changed you for the better.

Israel lost her right to be called Gods chosen people as they fell into idolatry worshipping other gods as they allowed themselves to fall from Gods grace as they followed the lust of their own hearts, 1Kings 9:1-9. God’s judgment against them led them to be taken captive around 605 – 537 B.C. by Nebuchadnezzar into Babylon for seventy years while Nebuchadnezzar’s army killed many Jews in Judah and Jerusalem destroying the whole city of Jerusalem including the first Temple that was built through King Solomon’s reign in Jerusalem.

The second Temple was built under Ezra’s leadership and then Israel started practicing Judaism and their Temple was desecrated as part of an effort to impose Greek-oriented culture and customs on the entire population. Roman rule refurbished the temple as Herod, Romans vassal king, rules the land of Israel. In 70 A.D. the Temple is once again destroyed. The TempleMount was taken over in 691 A.D. as the Arab nation built the Dome of the Rock and there has not been any other Temple built since that time on the original TempleMount.

During this seventy year exile God gave Israel 490 years to repent. They were set free from Babylon when the Medes and Persian conquered Babylon (Chaldean's) around 538 B.C. They were allowed back in the land and to rebuild the city of Jerusalem, however, they still did not repent for their sin of idol worshipping and they continued to receive punishment from God as the kingdom was taken away and eventually taken over by the Roman Empire.

The 490 years were up and the Jews not only did not repent but they killed the very Messiah they had been waiting for as well as in 24 A.D. they made an opened display of rejecting the Gospel message as they stoned Stephen being the final messenger that was sent to give them their last chance to repent. The Jews were now rejected as God’s chosen people and were no different from the Gentiles as from that time forth each individual, Jew and Gentile has to make their own decision to accept or reject Jesus as Lord and Savior, John 3:3-7; Romans 10:9, 10. The disciples were called first to preach to the Jews, Matthew 10:6, and Paul was called to preach to the Gentiles, Acts 22:21. God has saved a remnant out of the twelve tribes of Israel even up to a thousand generations that have always been faithful to Him, Exodus 20:1-6; Psalms 105:7, 8, but those who have yet to accept Jesus as Messiah God will continue to cut them off.

 

[Jim Parker]

The three kingdoms that were subdued by the little horn of Daniel 7:24 are the Heruli, Vandals, and Ostrogoths who were eliminated by the year 538 AD under the leadership of the Eastern Roman Emperor Justinian whose deadly wound came in 1798.

The Vandals were never eliminated by the Romans.
Neither were the Ostrogoths defeated by Justinian. They regained most of the territory they had lost and were eventually absorbed into the Lombards.
The emperor Justinian dies in 565 so he couldn't have had experienced a "deadly wound in 1798, 1260 years after his death.
Edited

 

[Jim Parker]

It matters not what age or who your earthly teacher is, what matters is that you are being taught by the Holy Spirit and not mans interpretations as we need to know that it is the Holy Spirit working through others to teach us, 1John 4:1-4.

Edited
I noticed something while reading Matthew 25:31-46; Jesus won't judge anyone based on their theology at the last judgment. There will be two test results: I was merciful (pass) or; I was not merciful. (fail)

Oh, by the way, we're taking the final exam right now.

iakov the fool

 

[jasonc]

 

[Jim Parker]

 

[jasonc]

I have been on this forum for nearly seven years. I have debated against and for orthodox preteristism.

Neither side budges unless they want to see what is biblical.I was one of those.reba and I engaged alot as opposing sides.now because her,her brother hitch and even stormcrow.I have switched my views.

Carry on the arguments against the rcc being the beast,false prophet,the whore of babylon,babylon herself.

Context and first audience is the key.

 

[Jim Parker]

Context and first audience is the key.

That is a very important key!

 

[jasonc]

That is a very important key!

Many futurists don't. This doesn't mean I or those in my position have it all figured out.no,not going there.

 

[Pizza]

Reply to removed post edited out