The Kingdom Of Heaven

[Edward]

I think we suppose God has mysteries He is keeping from us, or making it difficult to understand. I don't find that to be the case. Especially in this case.

Maybe we should define "heaven". That might help us understand.

Brother, I thought the mysteries of God was a given. If there were no mysteries then there'd be no debating anything, lol. For everyone would know everything.

Proverbs 25:2
2 It is the glory of God to conceal a thing: but the honour of kings is to search out a matter.../(KJV)

Yeah, let's define heaven.

 

[Edward]

Actually, a little poking around brought up some more scriptures about things that are hidden from man.

Deuteronomy 29:29 Jeremiah 33:3 Daniel 2:22 Daniel 12:9 Mark 13:32 Revelation 5:3 Amos 3:7 John 15:15 1 Corinthians 2:9 1 Corinthians 2:10 Ephesians 1:9 Ephesians 1:10 Colossians 1:26

Now, some things were hidden from all in the past ages, but are now being revealed to believers in these last days. These same things are certainly hidden from non-believers, and perhaps from immature believers.

 

[Nathan]

Now, some things were hidden from all in the past ages, but are now being revealed to believers in these last days. These same things are certainly hidden from non-believers, and perhaps from immature believers.

This is the line of thinking I think we should be under.

Matthew 13:11 (ESV)
And he answered them, "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.

Luke 8:10 (ESV)
he said, "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of God, but for others they are in parables, so that 'seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.'

Either way you slice it, Jesus said it was given to the disciples to know the secrets. If you don't know about the kingdom itself, it seems impossible to know it's secrets.

 

[eddif]

There is only one Gospel:

Gal 1:6 I am astonished that you are so quickly deserting him who called you in the grace of Christ and are turning to a different gospel—
Gal 1:7 not that there is another one, but there are some who trouble you and want to distort the gospel of Christ.
Gal 1:8 But even if we or an angel from heaven should preach to you a gospel contrary to the one we preached to you, let him be accursed.
Gal 1:9 As we have said before, so now I say again: If anyone is preaching to you a gospel contrary to the one you received, let him be accursed. (ESV)

In Christ there is no "us" and "them":

Gal 3:28 There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither slave nor free, there is no male and female, for you are all one in Christ Jesus. (ESV)

Col 3:11 Here there is not Greek and Jew, circumcised and uncircumcised, barbarian, Scythian, slave, free; but Christ is all, and in all. (ESV)


It is worth noting that so far there has been no scriptural reason given for a difference between "kingdom of God" and "kingdom of heaven," and a solid scriptural reason given as to them having the same meaning and referring to the same thing.

Galatians 1:7
In looking at Luke 6 is where you will find an opportunity to form another gospel.
How?

eddif

 

[reba]

Mar 1:1 The beginning of the gospel of Jesus Christ, the Son of God;

 

[Free]

Galatians 1:7
In looking at Luke 6 is where you will find an opportunity to form another gospel.
How?

eddif

This, too, it seems has nothing to do with the topic. Please speak plainly instead of being so cryptic. There is only one gospel, as Paul very clearly states.

 

[Corn Pop]

If God did not want to complicate things, why did He use two different terms when one would have been sufficient? Because they have two different meanings....not two different doctrines. The arrogance and pride of some of your rebuttals is not of a born again believer.

Christ in us
Douglas Summers

So there is a The Kingdom of Heaven, and the Kingdom of Heaven needs a King and the King of Heaven is God. So we have the Kingdom of God. Gods Kingdom is Heaven and he rules it right?

Kingdom of God. Kingdom of Heaven.

God rules the Kingdom of Heaven so the Kingdom of God, that is, Gods Kingdom, is the Kingdom of Heaven.

 

[Corn Pop]

If there is a difference between the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven all thats doing is deny God is the King of Heaven because the Kingdom of Heaven is not the Kingdom of God.

 

[eddif]

This is the line of thinking I think we should be under.

Matthew 13:11 (ESV)
And he answered them, "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it has not been given.

Luke 8:10 (ESV)
he said, "To you it has been given to know the secrets of the kingdom of God, but for others they are in parables, so that 'seeing they may not see, and hearing they may not understand.'

Either way you slice it, Jesus said it was given to the disciples to know the secrets. If you don't know about the kingdom itself, it seems impossible to know it's secrets.

How did they get the information?

eddif

 

[Nathan]

How did they get the information?

eddif

I suppose what Christ did not teach them personally, the Spirit revealed later.

 

[Douglas Summers]

If there is a difference between the Kingdom of God and the Kingdom of Heaven all thats doing is deny God is the King of Heaven because the Kingdom of Heaven is not the Kingdom of God.

Makes no sense to the op of the meaning of the two phrases I first posted? It is not two kingdoms, Kingdom of Heaven is Christ rule upon the earth as King as the son of David over Israel. The kingdom of God is Gods rule of the earth and all the universe which includes the kingdom established upon the earth. The kingdom of heaven is the fulfilling of the Davidic Covenant. Study your Bible, OT and NT.(2 Sam. 7:4-19) This is the Davidic Covenant.(Rom. 1:1-4)

 

[Douglas Summers]

I suppose what Christ did not teach them personally, the Spirit revealed later.

Yes, And He tells them so. (John 16:7-15) He has already approved what they will teach beforehand.

 

[reba]

Mat_13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Luk_8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

 

[eddif]

This, too, it seems has nothing to do with the topic. Please speak plainly instead of being so cryptic. There is only one gospel, as Paul very clearly states.

The whole issue is the cryptic aspect of one author and the straightforward ultimate reality of the other writer.

Actually you caught the cryptic aspect. Can you explain why I did it that way?

I will get around to it, but doing it this way brings interaction to stress the issues. Jesus did some questions and would not answer till they answered him. I am not Jesus, and will post if this does not work out.

eddif

 

[eddif]

Mat_13:11 He answered and said unto them, Because it is given unto you to know the mysteries of the kingdom of heaven, but to them it is not given.
Luk_8:10 And he said, Unto you it is given to know the mysteries of the kingdom of God: but to others in parables; that seeing they might not see, and hearing they might not understand.

True, but again how did they get the truth when talking about parables?

Ultimately how did they later do their writing?

eddif

 

[eddif]

I suppose what Christ did not teach them personally, the Spirit revealed later.

Correct.
The disciples did not come to Jesus and say
(Since we are untrained in religious matters, we are acquainted with physical things and get the point.).

They were baffled at the parable of the sower and flat out asked what about the parable, and Jesus taught them what it meant.
Then
After Pentecost they had power to write about what was going on. They had the second Adam quickening power inside their hearts and minds.

You done good.

eddif

 

[Free]

The whole issue is the cryptic aspect of one author and the straightforward ultimate reality of the other writer.

Actually you caught the cryptic aspect. Can you explain why I did it that way?

I will get around to it, but doing it this way brings interaction to stress the issues. Jesus did some questions and would not answer till they answered him. I am not Jesus, and will post if this does not work out.

eddif

I suspect you did it that way because you don't have an answer and are perhaps trying to buy time. Nothing you have given has anything to do with the topic, that I can see. Strong evidence has been given showing the two sayings are the same and none given to show otherwise.

I would appreciate you being straightforward or I will cease discussions.

 

[eddif]

We have a pretty good time in a denominational Sunday school. The Bishop did come once to see if I could continue teaching. We interact pretty well. Small class with visitors from time to time.

Every once in awhile I get told I don't believe that. Oh well we move on and I hear (I have learned more in three years in this class than in 35 years in other classes).

It is not a perfect situation. Some run to another class, but we survive.

It is not about me though. With all we are we discuss Jesus Christ and his work for us. The whole class realizes we ain't perfect in the flesh yet.

eddif

 

[eddif]

I suspect you did it that way because you don't have an answer and are perhaps trying to buy time. Nothing you have given has anything to do with the topic, that I can see. Strong evidence has been given showing the two sayings are the same and none given to show otherwise.

I would appreciate you being straightforward or I will cease discussions.

Well I thought 116 was pretty straight forward and I wrote 118 before I read your 117.

Matthew 5 is to the disciples. No real parables, and if a parable is there he explains it. All about the inner man and attitudes brought about when the disciples will receive power at pentecost. Before Pentecost they want to discuss:
Who will sit on seats beside him
He should not suffer
Will all abandon him at His death
One will deny him
Will not believe unless a hand is in the wound
etc.

Tell me about Luke 6 differences.

eddif

 

[eddif]

Makes no sense to the op of the meaning of the two phrases I first posted? It is not two kingdoms, Kingdom of Heaven is Christ rule upon the earth as King as the son of David over Israel. The kingdom of God is Gods rule of the earth and all the universe which includes the kingdom established upon the earth. The kingdom of heaven is the fulfilling of the Davidic Covenant. Study your Bible, OT and NT.(2 Sam. 7:4-19) This is the Davidic Covenant.(Rom. 1:1-4)

While it would take us a long time to work through what you posted, I can agree there is a huge amount to be discussed.

The kingdom of heaven comes to earth in at least two ways:
Jesus arrives in a body to fulfill scripture
Jesus the second Adam becomes a quickening spirit that can benefit us. Thy kingdom come thy will be done on earth as it is in heaven. By the power of God,

Give me some time to try to get through the ox scripture.

eddif