The Law of Moses IS the Law of YHWH

[jocor]

I agree. So if it is sin not to abide by ALL the 613 that one is able to, what does that say about ones salvation? One who is saved does not refuse to do what YHVH commands them to do. They at least do their best to obey what YHVH tells them to do and when they fail they repent and do it. Correct?

Correct. However, there are no where near 613 commands that any one believer has to obey. It is more like 200+. Many of those commands concern the Temple system, sacrifices, priests, etc.

I would say that if they did those things they were not saved at all, they were worshiping other gods.
I would say the ones they said needed to be kept are those that pertain to idolatry that the pagan religions were guilty of doing in their pagan worship and that many of the Gentiles had been participating in. We can see this both in the OT and in the history that is written about the pagan worship ceremonies. I think this clearly falls under the first commandment given by Yeshua. To love YHVH with all the heart, mind, and soul. One cannot be worshiping other gods and practicing that form of worship and say they love YHVH as the One God of all creation.
Deu 23:18 thou dost not bring a gift of a whore, or a price of a dog, into the house of Yehovah thy God, for any vow; for the abomination of Yehovah thy God are even both of them.
Jer 44:19 and when we are making perfume to the queen of the heavens, and pouring out to her libations--without our husbands have we made for her cakes to idolize her, and to pour out to her libations?'
Not even looking at the many mentions of Baal/Molech, these are just a couple of pagan worship customs that took the form of sexual, dumb beasts, and food worship customs. They shed the innocent blood of their own children. They took no care to the torture of a dumb beast which YHVH clearly taught against.

Sorry. I forgot to add the word "not" when I wrote, "Afterwards they had no problem commanding the Gentile converts to keep four commands from the Law of Moses. Why? They were [NOT] commanding them to be kept for salvation."

The command about eating things strangled has nothing to do with idolatry. The blood is not drained if completely if the animal is strangled. We are not to eat blood. The Gentile converts had been doing all those things prohibited by the four commands. In order to establish fellowship between the Jewish and Gentile believers, those things needed to be dealt with first.

 

[Deborah13]

Correct. However, there are no where near 613 commands that any one believer has to obey. It is more like 200+. Many of those commands concern the Temple system, sacrifices, priests, etc.



Sorry. I forgot to add the word "not" when I wrote, "Afterwards they had no problem commanding the Gentile converts to keep four commands from the Law of Moses. Why? They were [NOT] commanding them to be kept for salvation."

The command about eating things strangled has nothing to do with idolatry. The blood is not drained if completely if the animal is strangled. We are not to eat blood. The Gentile converts had been doing all those things prohibited by the four commands. In order to establish fellowship between the Jewish and Gentile believers, those things needed to be dealt with first.

I agree, animals that have been strangled have not been bled out. But the blood of an animal that has been knocked in the head like they are at the slaughter houses are not bled out either and neither are they when they are hunted with spears, bows, or guns. So they must be cleaned and hung to drain all the blood possible.
I know that in pagan rituals, even among some Indian American tribes, blood or body parts were part of their rituals to be eaten and/or drank.
I do believe these are eternal laws, even the forbidding of eating/drinking blood. The first time I see it is YHVH's commandment to Noah.
Gen 9:1 And God blesseth Noah, and his sons, and saith to them, `Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the earth;
Gen 9:2 and your fear and your dread is on every beast of the earth, and on every fowl of the heavens, on all that creepeth on the ground, and on all fishes of the sea--into your hand they have been given.
Gen 9:3 Every creeping thing that is alive, to you it is for food; as the green herb I have given to you the whole;
Gen 9:4 only flesh in its life--its blood--ye do not eat.

We also see that even though YHVH had told Noah to bring 7 pair of clean animals and only 2 of the unclean, that Noah was given all to eat, not just the clean animals. The Lord plans ahead.

 

[jocor]

We also see that even though YHVH had told Noah to bring 7 pair of clean animals and only 2 of the unclean, that Noah was given all to eat, not just the clean animals. The Lord plans ahead.

I disagree. He was only permitted to eat and sacrifice the clean animals. That is why there were many more of them. Had he eaten one of the pigs, the species would become extinct.

 

[Deborah13]

I disagree. He was only permitted to eat and sacrifice the clean animals. That is why there were many more of them. Had he eaten one of the pigs, the species would become extinct.

? I quoted the scripture. How do you disagree with the scripture?
Gen 9:1 And God blesseth Noah, and his sons, and saith to them, `Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the earth;
Gen 9:2 and your fear and your dread is on every beast of the earth, and on every fowl of the heavens, on all that creepeth on the ground, and on all fishes of the sea--into your hand they have been given.
Gen 9:3 Every creeping thing that is alive, to you it is for food; as the green herb I have given to you the whole;
Gen 9:4 only flesh in its life--its blood--ye do not eat.
Bereshis 9:1-4Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
9 Vayevarech Elohim et Noach and his banim, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish ha’aretz.
2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of ha’aretz, and upon every bird of the air, upon all that moveth upon ha’adamah, and upon all the dagim of the yam; into your yad are they delivered.
3 Every remes that liveth shall be food for you; even as the yarok esev (green plant) have I given you all.
4 But basar with the nefesh thereof, which is the dahm thereof, shall ye not eat.

Why do you say that if he had eaten one of the swine they would have become extinct?

 

[jocor]

? I quoted the scripture. How do you disagree with the scripture?
Gen 9:1 And God blesseth Noah, and his sons, and saith to them, `Be fruitful, and multiply, and fill the earth;
Gen 9:2 and your fear and your dread is on every beast of the earth, and on every fowl of the heavens, on all that creepeth on the ground, and on all fishes of the sea--into your hand they have been given.
Gen 9:3 Every creeping thing that is alive, to you it is for food; as the green herb I have given to you the whole;
Gen 9:4 only flesh in its life--its blood--ye do not eat.
Bereshis 9:1-4Orthodox Jewish Bible (OJB)
9 Vayevarech Elohim et Noach and his banim, and said unto them, Be fruitful, and multiply, and replenish ha’aretz.
2 And the fear of you and the dread of you shall be upon every beast of ha’aretz, and upon every bird of the air, upon all that moveth upon ha’adamah, and upon all the dagim of the yam; into your yad are they delivered.
3 Every remes that liveth shall be food for you; even as the yarok esev (green plant) have I given you all.
4 But basar with the nefesh thereof, which is the dahm thereof, shall ye not eat.

Why do you say that if he had eaten one of the swine they would have become extinct?

They would become extinct because it take two to make piglets. If Noah ate the female pig, the male could not reproduce. If he ate the male pig, there would be no male to mate with.

Gen 9:3,4; "Every moving thing that lives shall be meat for you; even as the green herb have I given you all things. But flesh with the life thereof, which is the blood thereof, shall ye not eat."​

He was speaking to Noah and his sons (vs. 1). We already saw that Noah knew the difference between clean and unclean animals. Therefore, when Yahweh said, "Every moving thing," Noah knew that He meant every moving thing that was clean to eat. Yahweh spoke similar words to Adam when He said, "every herb" and "every tree," shall be food for you (Gen 1:29). Adam obviously knew that Yahweh meant every herb or tree that was edible, for many plants are poisonous to man. Also, "every tree" did not include the tree of the knowledge of good and evil though we are not told that in 1:29.

In Gen 8:21, Yahweh said, " . . .neither will I again smite any more every thing living as I have done." Are we to understand this literally? Did Yahweh smite those in the ark or aquatic life? No. Therefore, this verse needs to be qualified by understanding it to mean, "every thing living on the ground" as is revealed in Gen 7:22; " And every living substance was destroyed which was upon the face of the ground, both man, and cattle, and the creeping things, and the fowl of the heaven; and they were destroyed from the earth: and Noah only remained alive, and they that were with him in the ark."

So, as i understand it, "every moving thing" needs to be qualified as in these other verses. There are exceptions to "every" in all these verses. There was plenty for Noah and his family to eat between all the clean animals, plus fish, plus the provisions they brought on the ark. They did not need to eat unclean animals. Yahweh arranged it so the waters were off the earth by the second month. Spring had arrived and all those seeds that survived the flood began to sprout. It would not be long before they had a harvest as well.