The Letter and the Spirit of the Word

[Cornelius]

This is difficult for many people to understand and I was awake last night until 1am thinking about it. On the forum people misunderstand you so easily. It was at 1am that God suddenly brought something to me about this and I would like to share.

I was surfing the Web and came upon a site about an art exhibition in Paris at the moment. The artist had drilled a hole in the floor of the gallery and through the hole, a huge generator blew air out. Above the hole, he placed a tabel. The four legs were tied to the floor with transparent string. The air lifted the table into the air and it seem to float in med air.

If the viewer had no information, he would be seeing a table floating above the hole with strings attached the the legs. When somebody asked him about this exhibit, that is what he would tell them. I saw this table floating, above and air vent , tied to the floor by string. I think the artist wanted to exhibit a floating table.

The Bible calls this seeing in the letter. That means, you see what is before you and that is it.

But the Bible tells us this view kills and does not bring life. We must look in the "spirit". We must see the real reason "why the table floats" Only the artist really knows this.

On another video, the artist speaks about his work. The idea was not the floating table, the main idea was to show, that external , unseen forces around us can have an influence on us . (Like microwaves, or x-rays, you cannot see, but they can harm you nevertheless .The exhibition was based around HAARP as an unseen force. It does not move, you cannot hear it, feel it, but its happening)

So now, when I look at the floating table, I see the "air" below it as the main exhibit. Its the "unseen" (spirit) that is on display here, made visible by the seen (letter) He needed the table, to make us aware of the air .

 

[Cornelius]

2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of a new covenant; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

We must teach the spirit. We must be able to not just look at what is before us in the letter, but we must see the spirit of those words too.

Here is a scripture that speaks about it too:

Rev 19:10 .......... the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.

So when we look at Revelation for instance . If we see the letter (the table) then we miss the meaning (the unseen air) Obviously there is no real dragon,(letter) its talking about Satan. Same with the harlot , Babylon, Jerusalem, Witnesses, etc. But even further that this. When we look at this scripture we see the "table floating":

Rev 12:5 And she was delivered of a son, a man child, who is to rule all the nations with a rod of iron: and her child was caught up unto God, and unto his throne.

The "she" then "man child" the "rod of iron" and the "throne" all are as the table in the exhibition. They point to something else. If we are going to look at the obvious, we will fall into the letter and that does not bring life.

It was just interesting to me, that the two pictures came to me last night as one. Both "went up" The suspended table and the man child . People who see this as Jesus going to the throne of God in the time of Israel, are looking at the "table" and missing the meaning of this in the spirit.

 

[mutzrein]

Thankyou Cornelius - an interesting 'picture' indeed.

Do you not think though that those who do not have the spirit will never 'see' the hidden things - even as those who are not meant to understand parables pertaining to the Kingdom? Their focus can ONLY ever be on the letter or what is visible with the natural eye.

What is the point of trying to 'teach' those who are dead, about life?

Blessings

 

[Cornelius]

Thankyou Cornelius - an interesting 'picture' indeed.

Do you not think though that those who do not have the spirit will never 'see' the hidden things - even as those who are not meant to understand parables pertaining to the Kingdom? Their focus can ONLY ever be on the letter or what is visible with the natural eye.

What is the point of trying to 'teach' those who are dead, about life?

Blessings

We are not told to make a judgment on this, so I think do like Jesus did. He taught everybody the same.

Those of the letter then left in anger, because they thought He was crazy. They only saw the "table"

Look, here they see the 'table" when He speaks of His flesh. They could not see He was talking about the Word of God. Today still people think He spoke of His real flesh here.They are still looking at the "table"

Joh 6:56 He that eateth my flesh and drinketh my blood abideth in me, and I in him.

Joh 6:60 Many therefore of his disciples, when the heard this, said, This is a hard saying; who can hear it?

Joh 6:66 Upon this many of his disciples went back, and walked no more with him.

But notice how the twelve saw He was talking about WORDS and not real flesh.

Joh 6:67 Jesus said therefore unto the twelve, Would ye also go away?
Joh 6:68 Simon Peter answered him, Lord, to whom shall we go? thou hast the words of eternal life.
They saw ! and stayed.

 

[mutzrein]

Thankyou Cornelius - an interesting 'picture' indeed.

Do you not think though that those who do not have the spirit will never 'see' the hidden things - even as those who are not meant to understand parables pertaining to the Kingdom? Their focus can ONLY ever be on the letter or what is visible with the natural eye.

What is the point of trying to 'teach' those who are dead, about life?

Blessings

We are not told to make a judgment on this, so I think do like Jesus did. He taught everybody the same.

I agree that we should 'do like Jesus did'.

I was actually thinking of your statement, 'We must teach the Spirit'. I believe there are many in our churches who believe that since they are 'taught' the spirit, they have the spirit. To me these are the tares and the goats. Your thoughts.

 

[Cornelius]

There is a difference between this spirit and the Spirit.

The spirit of words is their true meaning . If I just say :Blue .You can think of the color, but I mean that is how I feel. That is not the best example, but might give an idea.

Also, when we are with people, we say: "They do not have a nice spirit" Not talking about the Spirit of God, but more about an "atmosphere" or as we use to say "vibe " that comes from a person.

But the story of the floating table, is more what the Scriptures mean by spirit. If I can say it in this way: The whole Bible somehow speaks of the same thing, over and over again. we must just learn to read the spirit of the letters. We are told that they (the history in the OT ) are for examples (types) for us (the church) So we have to learn to read the types for a start. It even goes deeper.When we read the Bible like this and we study the types, something else happens. Our spirit starts understanding and not just our minds ! Our spirit starts reading the spirit in the words. That is why this scripture reads like this:Rev 19:10 And I fell down before his feet to worship him. And he saith unto me, See thou do it not: I am a fellow-servant with thee and with thy brethren that hold the testimony of Jesus: worship God; for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy. The prophesies were written in this "spirit" or "slant" (if you wish) so that they point to Jesus and most importantly, they point to Christ in us.


Now the interesting thing is, that when we place two of these scripture about the testimony together next to each other, we see something:

Rev 12:17 And the dragon waxed wroth with the woman, and went away to make war with the rest of her seed, that keep the commandments of God, and hold the testimony of Jesus:
and then we look and see what the testimony of Jesus is:

Rev 19:10 And I fell down before his feet to worship him. And he saith unto me, See thou do it not: I am a fellow-servant with thee and with thy brethren that hold the testimony of Jesus: worship God; for the testimony of Jesus is the spirit of prophecy.


Now it becomes clear, that those who hold to the spirit of the Word, will be persecuted by those who hold to the letter of the Word.

 

[Cornelius]

We can see that this was true in the time of Jesus as well.

Jesus taught the spirit . As saw when He spoke about His flesh that has to be eaten. The ruling "church" of His day, were in the letter and could not understand why He was not following the letter. He came to rule in our hearts and so rule over spiritual Israel , the letter wanted Him on a real throne ruling as a real King over real Israel.

Mat 26:3 Then were gathered together the chief priests, and the elders of the people, unto the court of the high priest, who was called Caiaphas; (here are the people of the letter together)
Mat 26:4 and they took counsel together that they might take Jesus by subtlety, and kill him.


We too , when we move from letter to spirit will be persecuted:

Mat 24:9 Then shall they deliver you up unto tribulation, and shall kill you: and ye shall be hated of all the nations for my name's sake.

Rom 7:6 But now we have been discharged from the law, having died to that wherein we were held; so that we serve in newness of the spirit, and not in oldness of the letter.

2Co 3:6 who also made us sufficient as ministers of a new covenant; not of the letter, but of the spirit: for the letter killeth, but the spirit giveth life.

 

[whirlwind]

• Psalms 17:3 Thou hast proved mine heart; Thou hast visited me in the night; Thou hast tried me, and shalt find nothing; I am purposed that my mouth shall not transgress.
  
  Psalms 63:6-7 When I remember Thee upon my bed, And meditate on Thee in the night watches. Because Thou hast been my help, Therefore in the shadow of Thy wings will I rejoice.
  
  Mark 6:48 And He saw them toiling in rowing; for the wind was contrary unto them: and about the fourth watch of the night He cometh unto them, walking upon the sea, and would have passed by them.

Laying awake at night is very productive for some, as your post shows. Isn't it wonderful to know you aren't alone when you toil?

 

[whirlwind]

As I was studying Daniel I came across the following and will add it here....

• Daniel 2:19 Then was the secret revealed unto Daniel in a night vision. Then Daniel blessed the God of heaven.
  
  2:22 He revealeth the deep and secret things: He knoweth what is in the darkness, and the light dwelleth with Him.
  
  2:30 But as for me, this secret is not revealed to me for any wisdom that I have more than any living, but for their sakes that shall make known the interpretation to the king, and that thou mightest know the thoughts of thy heart.

 

[GodspromisesRyes]

excellent C!

This is what causes alot of contention in the body of Christ even today. Those who see in the letter vs those who see in the Spirit. Today it may just be disagreement but often those in the letter have a personality to kill by slander or hate or ridicule those in the letter just as in Jesus day, and it will come that when its down to brass tacs and the governments want to seek our life, where will those of the letter stand? Often they will inact what was already in their hearts. This is the reason why at the core the ungodly of Gods people have always persecuted the godly. Only those who walk in the Spirit have life and victory, and shine the light in the darkness that reveals a mans sins. In the letter, cain and able were both to bring a sacrifice. in the letter cain brought what was good unto him, thinking he was fulfilling the letter of what was required. Only abel knew both the letter, that he had to sacrifice and the Spirit, what the pleasing sacrifice to God would be. Cains sacrifice was thereby earthly(grew out of the earth). Those who see only in the letter walk mostly by sight and do not even know it. It is only by the Spirit of God that we can understand and walk by the Spirit to be overcommers and walk in the victory that Jesus bought. Often because of this we have serious differnces in doctrines. One of the letter may say we will always be sinners, while of the Spirit we say we are now new creations, we are saints Jesus has overcome the bondage that sin had over us in the flesh. for example.

1Cr 2:6 ¶ Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:


1Cr 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:


1Cr 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.


1Cr 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.


1Cr 2:10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.


1Cr 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.


1Cr 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.


1Cr 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.


1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.


1Cr 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

1Cr 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ

 

[Cornelius]

1Cr 2:6 ¶ Howbeit we speak wisdom among them that are perfect: yet not the wisdom of this world, nor of the princes of this world, that come to nought:


1Cr 2:7 But we speak the wisdom of God in a mystery, [even] the hidden [wisdom], which God ordained before the world unto our glory:


1Cr 2:8 Which none of the princes of this world knew: for had they known [it], they would not have crucified the Lord of glory.


1Cr 2:9 But as it is written, Eye hath not seen, nor ear heard, neither have entered into the heart of man, the things which God hath prepared for them that love him.


1Cr 2:10 But God hath revealed [them] unto us by his Spirit: for the Spirit searcheth all things, yea, the deep things of God.


1Cr 2:11 For what man knoweth the things of a man, save the spirit of man which is in him? even so the things of God knoweth no man, but the Spirit of God.


1Cr 2:12 Now we have received, not the spirit of the world, but the spirit which is of God; that we might know the things that are freely given to us of God.


1Cr 2:13 Which things also we speak, not in the words which man's wisdom teacheth, but which the Holy Ghost teacheth; comparing spiritual things with spiritual.


1Cr 2:14 But the natural man receiveth not the things of the Spirit of God: for they are foolishness unto him: neither can he know [them], because they are spiritually discerned.


1Cr 2:15 But he that is spiritual judgeth all things, yet he himself is judged of no man.

1Cr 2:16 For who hath known the mind of the Lord, that he may instruct him? But we have the mind of Christ

Wow, good choice of Scripture !

I was also thinking about Cain and Able this morning when I posted this. How Cain brought the fruit of the earth and how God rejected it, because it spoke of his own works.

Good news is, that we can also change from letter to spirit ! I truly must tell you that most of my Christian walk, I walked in the letter. That was what my denomination taught me. I was too young and too young in the Lord to know better. But strangely I remember that the Lord did in fact in those early days, speak to me about certain things. Like death to self. He also gave me a little vision of a man sitting down on the floor, having his arms around his legs, that he pulled to his face. The man could not see, could not walk, could not do anything, because of his position. He was vulnerable. He spoke to me about His rest. About letting go of the fleshly arm, but I lost that understanding for many years. Oh boy is that difficult to regain !
This week He gave me this . Jer 48:6 Flee, save your lives, and be like the heath in the wilderness.
Jer 48:7 For, because thou hast trusted in thy works and in thy treasures, thou also shalt be taken: and Chemosh shall go forth into captivity, his priests and his princes together.
There is Cain and his sacrifice (trusted in his works) and the "heath in the wilderness" is my vision of the helpless man! How amazing: if we want to save our lives, we must flee and be like a helpless scrub in the desert, who must only trust for its water ! No digging, just trust !

Same as:Jer 17:5 Thus saith Jehovah: Cursed is the man that trusteth in man, and maketh flesh his arm, and whose heart departeth from Jehovah.
Jer 17:6 For he shall be like the heath in the desert, and shall not see when good cometh, but shall inhabit the parched places in the wilderness, a salt land and not inhabited.

Oh my, I have never seen the second "heath" until now that I quoted this scripture ! I was only looking for the "arm of the flesh ! LOL So if we want to save our lives, we must be like the heath (by choice) or else we will become like a heath in the desert by consequence ! I would rather learn now how to not trust the arm of the flesh and not be forced to learn in the wilderness (Tribulation)

I guess I just went off my own topic but God suddenly showed me something .

 

[mutzrein]

Cornelius - these are wonderful things the Lord is showing you - and you are sharing here. Thankyou.

The Lord bless you

 

[Adullam]

What I see as well concerning verses that are taken from the bible is the tendency of being indoctrinated or even brainwashed or hypnotized into a pre-conditioned slant, if you will. A lack of understanding doesn't stop many from studying the bible for more knowledge. Especially if a previous framework or slant is provided along with the study. In this way many are actually "inoculated" from ever knowing the truth. The taught prejudice becomes the foundation...rather than Christ.

This is an interesting excercise. You can tell if a person just knows the verse in word only or really understands it.

Repeat to a person a verse as is....assuming this verse is recognized or else identified as being from the bible through chapter and verse markings....and the person who is indoctrinated will instantly agree ....whether he understands it or not. It's a Pavlov like dogmatic response. It is automatic. It is according to training and reflex.


Now say the very same thing using different words....and you will get an instant disagreement, or at least a doubtful look. This is based on a non-association with a previous indoctrination or an indoctrination that resists the words you are using (especially if it sounds like a different doctrine). To understand, the mind must be fully engaged...so since there is no understanding of the truth, you get a negative and even hostile response. It is truly an interesting phenomenon...Although sad!

For instance, ask...."Is faith without works dead?" The answer will invariably be..yes I agree! It's acknowledged as true purely because it is found in the bible. The reason is of course that no one wants to go DIRECTLY against the bible or at least not be seen to! ;)

Now ask the same person if one needs the works of faith to be saved! This will bring a negative response usually since there is a previous indoctrination concerning works. What, salvation by works???? No way!

The logic is like this....if the bible says a car without a driver can't drive....what is wrong with saying that a driver is REQUIRED in order to drive? So a person who doesn't really understand the Spirit behind the verses will be unable to comprehend the reality of them.

So a detoxification process is often required...an unlearning....before any truth can actually penetrate. This is truly a difficult thing. It makes true biblical teaching a difficult process of tearing down and then building up.


BTW C.

I saw this exhibition where a man was leaning up against a wall....but about five feet off the ground. Truly shocking. The only point of contact was the tip of the elbow. Very bizarre. Of course big crowds would gather and stare in wonder.


As it turns out the trick is that a hollow metal arm is bolted to the wall some 10 feet off the ground...then a man slips his arm into the metal arm and voila! A trompe l'oeil! (fool the eyes)

Blessings!

 

[Cornelius]

Hi John

Sometimes I find myself at a loss, when talking to Christians. I actually do not know where to start. The other day I had lunch with new people and they turned out to be Christians. The man immediately started off talking about some things in a very exited way. He was so excited about things that were not in the Bible. I could not even open my mouth, because where do I begin?

I find it easier to talk to backslidden people and people in New Age. Some of them have lit up , when I spoke about us being crucified and no longer alive. About Christ living in the believer and coming in teh believer. One New Age lady took twenty minutes to leave her old beliefs. I was stunned ! I was really not trying to "convert" her, I just spoke the gospel! She phoned me later that day and was so excited. She said it felt as if light came into her darkness and she just knew that what I said was what she has been looking for.She is now coming to our Bible study and growing at the speed of light !

I once had a physiologist living next to me. She was church goer, one time we spoke and I told her about the real gospel and she said: If that was true, I would not have any patients . If they knew that they were indeed crucified with Christ and that Christ now lived in them, there problems would disappear.

Christ and the cross. Its just taught as a salvation message today, not the power of God anymore. The power is that it is Christ now in us, the body of Christ. His life not mine. I so wish I can fully share this and that people will actually listen. Its as you say: They have heard this in a religious way and think they know it. But I know, that I have actively been pursuing this knowledge to come into my heart and not just my head for more than three years now and even fully realizing it, it is still something that the Lord must open and establish in me. This knowledge is the truth that sets free.

I need to change in some areas in my life and this week God said:Eph 4:23 .... be renewed in the spirit of your mind, I got the revelation ! Not only must my mind be renewed (in knowledge) but they WAY I think about myself must change. The spirit of my mind must change too ! I must PUT ON the new man Christ, like an actor puts on his character ! That is what it says next.Eph 4:24 and put on the new man, that after God hath been created in righteousness and holiness of truth.
and then the Lord opened my understanding to the next verse:Eph 4:25 Wherefore, putting away falsehood, speak ye truth each one with his neighbor: for we are members one of another. In my language it says" Laying down the lie" and God showed me the lie is the old man. We then stop confessing the old man and we speak the truth about the new man Christ, to one another, because we are the body of Christ.

Well, I started putting this into practice this week with wonderful results. I had victory in my life, because Christ rose up in me , every time I "put Him on" .

C

 

[Adullam]

Hi John

Sometimes I find myself at a loss, when talking to Christians. I actually do not know where to start. The other day I had lunch with new people and they turned out to be Christians. The man immediately started off talking about some things in a very exited way. He was so excited about things that were not in the Bible. I could not even open my mouth, because where do I begin?

I find it easier to talk to backslidden people and people in New Age. Some of them have lit up , when I spoke about us being crucified and no longer alive. About Christ living in the believer and coming in teh believer. One New Age lady took twenty minutes to leave her old beliefs. I was stunned ! I was really not trying to "convert" her, I just spoke the gospel! She phoned me later that day and was so excited. She said it felt as if light came into her darkness and she just knew that what I said was what she has been looking for.She is now coming to our Bible study and growing at the speed of light !

I once had a physiologist living next to me. She was church goer, one time we spoke and I told her about the real gospel and she said: If that was true, I would not have any patients . If they knew that they were indeed crucified with Christ and that Christ now lived in them, there problems would disappear.

Christ and the cross. Its just taught as a salvation message today, not the power of God anymore. The power is that it is Christ now in us, the body of Christ. His life not mine. I so wish I can fully share this and that people will actually listen. Its as you say: They have heard this in a religious way and think they know it. But I know, that I have actively been pursuing this knowledge to come into my heart and not just my head for more than three years now and even fully realizing it, it is still something that the Lord must open and establish in me. This knowledge is the truth that sets free.

I need to change in some areas in my life and this week God said:Eph 4:23 .... be renewed in the spirit of your mind, I got the revelation ! Not only must my mind be renewed (in knowledge) but they WAY I think about myself must change. The spirit of my mind must change too ! I must PUT ON the new man Christ, like an actor puts on his character ! That is what it says next.Eph 4:24 and put on the new man, that after God hath been created in righteousness and holiness of truth.
and then the Lord opened my understanding to the next verse:Eph 4:25 Wherefore, putting away falsehood, speak ye truth each one with his neighbor: for we are members one of another. In my language it says" Laying down the lie" and God showed me the lie is the old man. We then stop confessing the old man and we speak the truth about the new man Christ, to one another, because we are the body of Christ.

Well, I started putting this into practice this week with wonderful results. I had victory in my life, because Christ rose up in me , every time I "put Him on" .

C

Ja Swaaar! :amen

 

[Cornelius]

Ja Swaaar! :amen

Ja nee boet.

 

[whirlwind]

Christ and the cross. Its just taught as a salvation message today, not the power of God anymore. The power is that it is Christ now in us, the body of Christ. His life not mine. I so wish I can fully share this and that people will actually listen. Its as you say: They have heard this in a religious way and think they know it. But I know, that I have actively been pursuing this knowledge to come into my heart and not just my head for more than three years now and even fully realizing it, it is still something that the Lord must open and establish in me. This knowledge is the truth that sets free.

C

Hebrews 6:1-3 Therefore leaving the principles of the doctrine of Christ, let us go on unto perfection; not laying again the foundation of repentance from dead works, and of faith toward God, Of the doctrine of baptisms, and of laying on of hands, and of resurrection of the dead, and of eternal judgment, And this will we do, if God permit.

 

[Cornelius]

That is right, but we want to stay on the first principles and we get angry with people who want to press on to perfection ; telling them its not possible.

 

[whirlwind]

As I read various posts...especially those where the "perfection" is discussed it seems that no matter the amount of Scripture provided there are those that speak against it, not with Scripture (for that can't be done) but with arguments from sources NOT found in the Bible. The following two verses come to mind....

• 2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
  
  3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

 

[Adullam]

As I read various posts...especially those where the "perfection" is discussed it seems that no matter the amount of Scripture provided there are those that speak against it, not with Scripture (for that can't be done) but with arguments from sources NOT found in the Bible. The following two verses come to mind....

• 2 Timothy 3:7 Ever learning, and never able to come to the knowledge of the truth.
  
  3:16 All Scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness; That the man of God may be perfect, throughly furnished unto all good works.

They don't try to understand they usually just turn on you. What does Jesus say about casting pearls again?


Men scorned our Lord before we came unto the scene. We now bear His scorn when we identify with Him and His words.