Bible Study The Lord's Day?

[SputnikBoy]

Would someone PLEASE explain why 'the Lord's Day', as found in Revelation 1:10, is assumed by mainstream Christianity to be 'the first day' or 'Sunday'? Other than this being traditional mainline Christian, where is this belief verified by the scriptures themselves? I can't find any such text in my Bible. John was in vision on the island of Patmos. If anything, 'the Lord's Day' to which he refers, would be relating to 'the final day' of earth's history. Where in scripture is the first day EVER referred to as 'the Lord's Day'? Nowhere! So, why do we then make such assumptions and then set them into concrete? How many other false beliefs do we embrace so readily?

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Isn't a day, to the Lord, likened to a thousand years?

 

[SputnikBoy]

Isn't a day, to the Lord, likened to a thousand years?

Sputnik: Maybe. But why is the 'Lord's Day' equated with Sunday? This doesn't come from the Bible, even though the majority of Christians actually believe that it DOES. Some become quite militant in their defense for this belief.

 

[noblej6]

Hi Sputnik,

Where in the bible does it show it is meaning any day of a week?

noble6

 

[Merry Menagerie]

Exactly! So if some think it's sunday and others think it saturday...who cares? We are not to judge people by which day they keep holy so it's a moot point.

 

[lovely]

I think it is because early believers referred to the day that Christ rose from the dead as, "The Lord's day" which was on a Sunday.

The Lord bless you.

 

[SputnikBoy]

Hi Sputnik,

Where in the bible does it show it is meaning any day of a week?

noble6

Sputnik: Hi noble. Isn't that why I'm asking the question to begin with? Ask Most Christians and they'll tell you that 'the Lord's Day' is Sunday. And, some will defend that belief with their lives if need be.

 

[SputnikBoy]

Exactly! So if some think it's sunday and others think it saturday...who cares? We are not to judge people by which day they keep holy so it's a moot point.

Sputnik: Whoa there, buddy. I don't believe that 'the Lord's Day' is Sunday OR Saturday as I stated in my original post. Incidentally, what exactly DO you care about?
:smt115

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Peter the Apostle referred to the times we are in as 'the Last Days.' The Day of the Lord is yet to come upon us.

Your premise is self-defeating, for the notion that the 'Lord's day' to which John refers as some generic reference to post-resurrection must mean, if one accepts it, that no one calendar day is superior to another, and Sabbatarians are therefore wrong.

however

Within 20 years of the writing of the Apocalypse, we see Ignatius using the term 'Lord's Day' to refer specifically to the first day of the week. Shortly thereafter, ca 125 AD, the Didache does so also.

If the Lord's finishing of His work on the sixth day, followed by a day of rest was an archetype which hallowed the Sabbath, how much more His finished work on the cross and His bodily resurrection on the third day, which was the First Day, hallowed the first day of the week. His Sabbath was a ceasing from labor; His resurrection was the entering of His rest and the beginning of the work of the Kingdom.

He rose on Nisan 16, firstfruits. Sunday is the resurrectional celebration of firstfruits. He came in among the Apostles on the first day of the week. The Spirit descended on the first day of the week (Pentecost would fall on the first day if Nisan 16 had fallen on Sunday).

It is true that Sunday worship sets Christianity apart from Jewish practice. Sunday worship on the part of the Christians was probably partially responsible for the growing wedge between Jewish Christians and their Jewish counterparts in the synagogues-resulting in a complete break between the Christians and the Jews in about 135 AD. At least, that is the position of Dr Marvin Wilson, as found in his work "Our Father Abraham."

 

[cj]

One thing that can't be denied or ignored is that John was very specific regarding his reference to this day, and that since we know he was writing to the many local churches, it should be proper to conclude that John understood that the believer's in these many churches would know what he meant.

The only way to gain any light on this term is to look at other scriptures that refer to a specific day, and by faith, receive that the Spirit was consistent in His speaking.


Revelation  1 : 10, "I was in spirit on the Lord's Day and heard behind me a loud voice like a trumpet,"

Here the Lord's Day could be the first day of the week, the day the Lord was resurrected (John 20:1). The early church met regularly on this day (Acts 20:7; 1 Cor. 16:2).

John 20:1, "Now on the first day of the week, Mary the Magdalene came early to the tomb while it was yet dark and saw the stone taken away from the tomb."

Acts  20 : 7, "And on the first day of the week, when we gathered together to break bread, Paul conversed with them since he was to go forth on the next day; and he extended his message until midnight."

1 Corinthians  16 : 2, "On the first day of the week each one of you should lay aside in store to himself whatever he may have been prospered, that no collections be made when I come."


In love,
cj

 

[cj]

It is true that Sunday worship sets Christianity apart from Jewish practice. Sunday worship on the part of the Christians was probably partially responsible for the growing wedge between Jewish Christians and their Jewish counterparts in the synagogues-resulting in a complete break between the Christians and the Jews in about 135 AD. At least, that is the position of Dr Marvin Wilson, as found in his work "Our Father Abraham."

I hear you OC,... but truth be told, the Wedge came long before 135 AD.


In love,
cj

 

[Orthodox Christian]

It is true that Sunday worship sets Christianity apart from Jewish practice. Sunday worship on the part of the Christians was probably partially responsible for the growing wedge between Jewish Christians and their Jewish counterparts in the synagogues-resulting in a complete break between the Christians and the Jews in about 135 AD. At least, that is the position of Dr Marvin Wilson, as found in his work "Our Father Abraham."

I hear you OC,... but truth be told, the Wedge came long before 135 AD.


In love,
cj

Absolutely- the 135 AD date is just a point in time where the wedge became a complete parting of ways, accompanied by anathemas for the Nazorenes.

My point is simply that even pro-Jewish scholars acknowledge that Sunday worship was common among Christians back to Apostolic times- as opposed to the SDA claims that Sunday worship is a Constantinian invention.

 

[noblej6]

Hi Sputnik,

No, what I was getting at is why is Rev 1: 10 referring to any day of the week. Why couldn't it mean Day of the Lord, which is what the Revelation is all about? The Day of the Lord that was the return, the great tribulation et al.

Lord's day= Day of the Lord

Noble6

 

[SputnikBoy]

Hi Sputnik,

No, what I was getting at is why is Rev 1: 10 referring to any day of the week. Why couldn't it mean Day of the Lord, which is what the Revelation is all about? The Day of the Lord that was the return, the great tribulation et al.

Lord's day= Day of the Lord

Noble6

Sputnik: Oh, I see ...yes, sorry ...now I'm with you. That's what I believe too. I don't believe that Revelation 1:10 has anything to do with the Sabbath. And, Sunday should not even be considered.

There are those, however, who DO believe 'the Lord's Day' to have been the 7th-day Sabbath. There IS a hint that this COULD be the case because, in Isaiah 58:13, the Sabbath is indeed referred to as 'the Lord's holy day'. Also, Jesus referred to Himself as being 'the Lord of the Sabbath (Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:28)'. This would also gave credence to the Sabbath being referred to as 'the Lord's Day'.

Sadly, the LEAST of all possible definitions for 'the Lord's Day' seems to be Sunday. There is nothing in the Bible to support this. The Lord's Day=Sunday is a man-made concoction.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

Sputnik: Oh, I see ...yes, sorry ...now I'm with you. That's what I believe too. I don't believe that Revelation 1:10 has anything to do with the Sabbath. And, Sunday should not even be considered.

There are those, however, who DO believe 'the Lord's Day' to have been the 7th-day Sabbath. There IS a hint that this COULD be the case because, in Isaiah 58:13, the Sabbath is indeed referred to as 'the Lord's holy day'. Also, Jesus referred to Himself as being 'the Lord of the Sabbath (Matthew 12:8; Mark 2:28)'. This would also gave credence to the Sabbath being referred to as 'the Lord's Day'.

Sadly, the LEAST of all possible definitions for 'the Lord's Day' seems to be Sunday. There is nothing in the Bible to support this. The Lord's Day=Sunday is a man-made concoction. [/color]

And should we be led to believe that the definition of 'the Lord's Day' would change over the course of about 15 years? Here's what Ignatius of Antioch, third Bishop of Antioch, wrote in about 105 AD regarding Lord's Day:

Magnesians 9
We have seen how former adherents of the ancient customs have since attained a new hope; so that they have given up keeping the Sabbath, and now order their lives by the Lord's day instead.

Now, are we to believe that in 15 year's time the accepted meaning of "the Lord's Day" had so changed? That just defies reason- but so it must be if one is to cling to the absurd myths and rituals of the SDA.

Or as Ignatius puts it

Magnesians 8
Never allow yourselves to be led astray by false teachings and antiquated and useless fables. Nothing of any use can be got from them. If we are still living in the practice of Judaism, it is an admission that we have failed to receive the gift of grace.

Magnesians 10
To profess Jesus Christ while continuing to follow Jewish customs is an absurdity. The Christian faith does not look to Judaism, but Judaism looks to Christianity...

But, again, we should be persuaded by your speculative consideration of the term Lord's Day over the use of the same term by a near contemporary of Saint John the Revelator.

"There are those who believe" is of little consequence, for there are those who believed that they needed to catch the mothership in the tail of a comet.

 

[SputnikBoy]

[quote="Orthodox Christian":3bae3]It is true that Sunday worship sets Christianity apart from Jewish practice. Sunday worship on the part of the Christians was probably partially responsible for the growing wedge between Jewish Christians and their Jewish counterparts in the synagogues-resulting in a complete break between the Christians and the Jews in about 135 AD. At least, that is the position of Dr Marvin Wilson, as found in his work "Our Father Abraham."

I hear you OC,... but truth be told, the Wedge came long before 135 AD.


In love,
cj

Absolutely- the 135 AD date is just a point in time where the wedge became a complete parting of ways, accompanied by anathemas for the Nazorenes.

My point is simply that even pro-Jewish scholars acknowledge that Sunday worship was common among Christians back to Apostolic times- as opposed to the SDA claims that Sunday worship is a Constantinian invention.[/quote:3bae3]

Sputnik: As much as one may wish to do so, history cannot be rewritten. Constantine cannot be ignored, whether Sunday worship was common or not among Christians prior to his mandate. And, it's the OFFICIAL tag that SDAs apply to Constantine, not the fact that a few individuals took it upon themselves to take on Sunday on which to worship. I'm sure that the above-average Adventist could just as well site the examples of 'Sunday observers' as do you and others, OC. This fact just doesn't cut any ice with them or make it any more acceptable. The bottom line is ...did GOD authorize any of these practices? The OFFICIAL answer is ...no.

Anyway, the original intent of this thread was not to start another SDA bash but to draw attention to the glaring fact that 'the Lord's Day' as equating to Sunday does NOT come from the scriptures. That's all.

 

[Orthodox Christian]

[quote="Orthodox Christian":eb168]It is true that Sunday worship sets Christianity apart from Jewish practice. Sunday worship on the part of the Christians was probably partially responsible for the growing wedge between Jewish Christians and their Jewish counterparts in the synagogues-resulting in a complete break between the Christians and the Jews in about 135 AD. At least, that is the position of Dr Marvin Wilson, as found in his work "Our Father Abraham."

I hear you OC,... but truth be told, the Wedge came long before 135 AD.


In love,
cj

Absolutely- the 135 AD date is just a point in time where the wedge became a complete parting of ways, accompanied by anathemas for the Nazorenes.

My point is simply that even pro-Jewish scholars acknowledge that Sunday worship was common among Christians back to Apostolic times- as opposed to the SDA claims that Sunday worship is a Constantinian invention.

Sputnik: As much as one may wish to do so, history cannot be rewritten. Constantine cannot be ignored, whether Sunday worship was common or not among Christians prior to his mandate. [/quote:eb168]
You've just contradicted yourself by saying that history cannot be re-written, then turning about in the same sentence and implying that Constantine was so prominent that his actions eclipse what came before him. That is, my friend, a history re-write.

Two hundred plus years of verifiable Sunday worship, as I have demonstrated in my Ignatian citations, means that Constantine's opinion on the matter was nothing more than him agreeing with a long-term practice. To ignore the duration of the practice throughout history is as ridiculous as it would be to ignore the duration of the Bill of Rights in American history- or, to continue the analogy, to credit Chief Justice Warren Burger with discovering the Bill of Rights just because he wrote the majority opinion on the Miranda decision.

And, it's the OFFICIAL tag that SDAs apply to Constantine, not the fact that a few individuals took it upon themselves to take on Sunday on which to worship.

The "few individuals" you speak of are the acknowledged fathers of the Church down through time. Their voices represent the central ethos and praxis of the Church.

I'm sure that the above-average Adventist could just as well site the examples of 'Sunday observers' as do you and others, OC. This fact just doesn't cut any ice with them or make it any more acceptable.

Oh, I quite agree- the ability to make an argument does not equate with the ability to find and present the 'truth.' History is always interpretive.

The bottom line is ...did GOD authorize any of these practices? The OFFICIAL answer is ...no.

Official according to whom? We've already demonstrated the practice from scripture and from the early fathers, but moreover, I've made the point that if Moses and his scribes and historians had authority to speak as prophet to Israel, then much moreso the Apostles and their descendants to the Church

Anyway, the original intent of this thread was not to start another SDA bash but to draw attention to the glaring fact that 'the Lord's Day' as equating to Sunday does NOT come from the scriptures. That's all.

I don't intend on "bashing" SDAs- I simply have brought some very well defended and demonstrated opposing points to the table.

 

[guibox]

I again refer you all back to this discussion on what this "Lord's Day" could and could not mean.

http://www.christianforums.net/viewtopic.php?t=15469

 

[SputnikBoy]

Y'know ...this is one of those discussions where most are so grounded in a particular mindset that I doubt anyone will say, "Hmmm, I can see now that 'the Lord's Day' could not have been Sunday." Is there anyone at all who is at least willing to acknowledge that they MAY have been wrong about Sunday based on the scriptural information presented? This would also mean, of course, acknowledging that 'Sunday worship' MAY have come about through a false premise. And, if that is the case, then most of mainstream Christianity is (glaringly) guilty of the very same false teachings that it levels at the so-called 'cult denominations'.

 

[Abiyah]

Hello ?

I again refer you all back to this discussion on what this "Lord's Day" could and could not mean.

Hello ALL! ( Miss me ? lol..lol..lol )

Anywhooo...... I just wanted to add that The Lord's Day is Just that ! And the sabbath is just that. Sabbath means rest, and we are to put our rest, peace of mind in our Lord Christ Jesus EVERY DAY and not just one day of the week. And how do we put our rest and peace of mind in God everyday, through His Son Christ Jesus, for He is The Word of God, so if we read His Word daily, we not only receive that Peace of mind that only comes from God, but we have also received our daily Bread, and Christ is the Bread of Life; However, Merry Menagerie, I have to agree with your post written on Agust 16th. If some believe that they are to only hear God's Word and worship Him on Saturday or Sunday that is what they have been lead to believe, we all must believe as we are lead to believe, God is on the Throne and He is on control. But let us look together & see what God's Word has to say regarding The Lord's Day, I know I look forward to it ! Actually, someone had made this point already, but seems as though it was NOT ackowledged, weird eh ?


II PETER 3:9

" But, beloved, BE NOT IGNORANT of this one thing, THAT ONE DAY IS WITH THE LORD AS A THOUSAND YEARS, AND A THOUSDAND YEARS AS ONE DAY. " [ He is talking about THE LORDS DAY, he is telling us NOT to be ignorant, that it will be a 1,000 years with The Lord to us, and merely ONE DAY to THE Lord. ]

When Jesus Christ returns here to earth, it is The Lord's Day, that day will be a 1,000 years to us. It is a time of teaching and discipline for those that did not overcome, it is esepecially a time for those who followed the spurious messiah thinking he was Jesus Christ, and they were deceived. It is a time for those that Christ says depart from ME I never knew you [ Matthew 7:22-23 it states in that day=meaning the Lord's Day] ! Why didn't He know them, because they listened to the "traditions of men", which make VOID the Word of God, and they need to be taught all over again, actually they need to discipline themselves in God's Word. The Lord's Day is a a time for those that are spiritually dead, it is a time for those that never had a chance to learn God's True Word.


REVELATION 20:5

" But the rest of the dead [ spiritually dead ] lived NOT again until the THOUSAND YEARS WERE FINISHED. This is the first resurrection. [ The first resurrection is for those who have already overcome, and also for those who overcame the tribulation of the anti-christ as he played his role as Jesus Christ [ Mark 13:14 & Mark 13:21, example during the tribulation of anti-christ some of God's Children will be thrown in prison for 10 days as they REFUSE to worship him, because he can not fool them, they know he is satan playing Jesus, see Revelation 2:10, this is a perfect example of those that will take part in the first resurrection ].

REVELATION 20: 6

" Blessed and holy is he that hath part in the first resurrection, on such the second death. [ second death is the death of the soul in the Lake of Fire ] hath NO power, BUT THEY [ they that overcame, and also they that overcame the anti-christ as he played the role of Jesus, and deceived many into thinking that he was really Jesus ] SHALL BE PREISTS OF GOD AND OF CHRIST AND SHALL REIGN [ reign here in the Greek means teach] WITH HIM A THOUSAND YEARS. "


REVELATION 20: 7

" And when the THOUSAND YEARS [ on the last day of The Lord's day ] are expired, satan shall be loosed out of his prison. [ By this time, on the last day of The Lord's Day, after they have been taught and disciplined, they shall be tested, although this time satan does not have the power that he had as he played the role of Jesus Christ, so if they follow him this time it will not be in ignorance, that's for sure. Those that chose to follow him at the end of the Lord's Day, will find themselves joining him in the Lake of Fire, and to those that would do such a thing and have been taught, it is a hard thing to comprehend. It is God's will that all should come to repentance, but they all won't. It is difficult to understand why anyone would do that, but as it is written many will. After the second death these will no longer exist, there will be no record that they ever existed at all Revelation 21:4]


Abiyah