Christian Forums

This is a sample guest message. Register a free account today to become a member! Once signed in, you'll be able to participate on this site by adding your own topics and posts, as well as connect with other members through your own private inbox!

The Mark Of Forgiveness.

CherubRam

Judaic Christian
Member
The Mark Of Forgiveness.

The mark of forgiveness was a single charcoal line placed upon the forehead; it was given by the priest to let the people know that the person had been forgiven.
The pole Moses made to hang the serpent was not a cross either, it was a single pole. The charcoal mark is symbolic of that pole Moses made. Christ was hung on a single pole, not a cross.

Ezekiel 9:4
and said to him, “Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it.”

Ezekiel 9:6
Slaughter the old men, the young men and women, the mothers and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary.” So they began with the old men who were in front of the temple.

The word for mark is Tau, the last letter of the Hebrew alphabet.

This is the Hebrew word for cross: לַחֲצוֹת
 
The New Strong's Concise Concordance & Vine's Concise Dictionary of the Bible states that the meaning of "stauros (4716) denotes, primarily , "an upright pale or stake." On such malefactors were nailed for execution. Both the noun and the verb stauroo, "to fasten to a stake or pale," are originally to be distinguished from the ecclesiastical form of a two beamed "cross." The shape of the latter had its origin in ancient Chaldea, and was used as the symbol of the god Tammuz (being in the shape of the mystic Tau, the initial of his name) in that country and in adjacent lands, including Egypt. By the middle of the 3rd cent. A.D. the churches had either departed from, or had travestied, certain doctrines of the Christian faith. In order to increase the prestige of the apostate ecclesiastical system pagans were received into the churches apart from regeneration by faith, and were permitted largely to retain their pagan signs and symbols. Hence the Tau or T, in its most frequent form, with the cross-piece lowered, was adopted to stand for the "cross" of Christ."(Vine's Concise Dictionary of the Bible, pg 75, 1999 edition)

"Cross" and "Crucify" are nowhere to be found in the Greek New Testament.
 
Do you have a point you are trying to make? That the two-beam cross shape may have had its origins in ancient Chaldea is not relevant to whether or not Jesus was crucified on a two-beam cross. What matters is what the Romans did.

https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/crucifixion/ancient-crucifixion-images/

https://aleteia.org/2018/10/10/the-six-oldest-images-of-jesus/

https://www.britannica.com/topic/crucifixion-capital-punishment

"According to the literary sources, those condemned to crucifixion never carried the complete cross, despite the common belief to the contrary and despite the many modern reenactments of Jesus’ walk to Golgotha. Instead, only the crossbar was carried, while the upright was set in a permanent place where it was used for subsequent executions. As the first-century Jewish historian Josephus noted, wood was so scarce in Jerusalem during the first century A.D. that the Romans were forced to travel ten miles from Jerusalem to secure timber for their siege machinery."

https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org...on-methods-reveal-the-history-of-crucifixion/
 
Last edited:
The Mark Of Forgiveness.

The mark of forgiveness was a single charcoal line placed upon the forehead; it was given by the priest to let the people know that the person had been forgiven.
The pole Moses made to hang the serpent was not a cross either, it was a single pole. The charcoal mark is symbolic of that pole Moses made. Christ was hung on a single pole, not a cross.

Ezekiel 9:4
and said to him, “Go throughout the city of Jerusalem and put a mark on the foreheads of those who grieve and lament over all the detestable things that are done in it.”

Ezekiel 9:6
Slaughter the old men, the young men and women, the mothers and children, but do not touch anyone who has the mark. Begin at my sanctuary.” So they began with the old men who were in front of the temple.

The word for mark is Tau, the last letter of the Hebrew alphabet.

This is the Hebrew word for cross: לַחֲצוֹת
The Ancient picture Tau1.jpg is a type of "mark", probably of two sticks crossed to mark a place similar to the Egyptian hieroglyph of a picture of two crossed sticks. This letter has the meanings of mark, sign or signature.
The Modern Hebrew, Arabic and Greek names for this letter is tav (or taw), a Hebrew word meaning, mark. Hebrew, Greek and Arabic agree that the sound for this letter is "t".
The early pictograph Tau1.jpg evolved intoTau2.jpg in the Middle Semitic script and continued to evolve into in the Late Semitic Script. From the middle Semitic script comes the Modern Hebrew ת. The Early Semitic script is the origin of the Greek and the Latin T

So the "mark" in Ezekial 9:4 was a cross
 
The Ancient picture View attachment 15358 is a type of "mark", probably of two sticks crossed to mark a place similar to the Egyptian hieroglyph of a picture of two crossed sticks. This letter has the meanings of mark, sign or signature.
The Modern Hebrew, Arabic and Greek names for this letter is tav (or taw), a Hebrew word meaning, mark. Hebrew, Greek and Arabic agree that the sound for this letter is "t".
The early pictograph View attachment 15359 evolved intoView attachment 15360 in the Middle Semitic script and continued to evolve into in the Late Semitic Script. From the middle Semitic script comes the Modern Hebrew ת. The Early Semitic script is the origin of the Greek and the Latin T

So the "mark" in Ezekial 9:4 was a cross
The mark is the name, and the name to not have is a lie in their right hand.

Those who sighed and cried for abominations committed, cant have the wrong name, ( mark of the name) they have the right name. ( mark of the name)



Isaiah 44:20 He feedeth on ashes: a deceived heart hath turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there not a lie in my right hand?


Ezekiel 9:9 Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The Lord hath forsaken the earth, and the Lord seeth not.
10 And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will recompense their way upon their head.




Revelation concludes it all, all receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads. ( right hand is a lie, and foreheads is the names of blasphemy. Revelation 17:3.)

Torment forever who received the mark of the name of the beast.

The throne of God is when there is no more curse ( the mark of the beast/lies.) Christs servants serve Him, HIs name is in their foreheads.


Revelation 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Revelation 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
 
So the conclusion/truth is, we are saved by believing in the right name/mark of His name in our foreheads. ( not the wrong advice/lie.)


Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
 
The other conclusion is that the mark of forgiveness is the name of Jesus Christ our Lord, to believe in Him.


John 20:31 But these are written, that ye might believe that Jesus is the Christ, the Son of God; and that believing ye might have life through his name.

Acts 2:38 Then Peter said unto them, Repent, and be baptized every one of you in the name of Jesus Christ for the remission of sins, and ye shall receive the gift of the Holy Ghost.

Revelation 1:4 John to the seven churches which are in Asia: Grace be unto you, and peace, from him which is, and which was, and which is to come; and from the seven Spirits which are before his throne;
5 And from Jesus Christ, who is the faithful witness, and the first begotten of the dead, and the prince of the kings of the earth. Unto him that loved us, and washed us from our sins in his own blood,
6 And hath made us kings and priests unto God and his Father; to him be glory and dominion for ever and ever. Amen.
 
The mark is the name, and the name to not have is a lie in their right hand.

Those who sighed and cried for abominations committed, cant have the wrong name, ( mark of the name) they have the right name. ( mark of the name)



Isaiah 44:20 He feedeth on ashes: a deceived heart hath turned him aside, that he cannot deliver his soul, nor say, Is there not a lie in my right hand?


Ezekiel 9:9 Then said he unto me, The iniquity of the house of Israel and Judah is exceeding great, and the land is full of blood, and the city full of perverseness: for they say, The Lord hath forsaken the earth, and the Lord seeth not.
10 And as for me also, mine eye shall not spare, neither will I have pity, but I will recompense their way upon their head.




Revelation concludes it all, all receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads. ( right hand is a lie, and foreheads is the names of blasphemy. Revelation 17:3.)

Torment forever who received the mark of the name of the beast.

The throne of God is when there is no more curse ( the mark of the beast/lies.) Christs servants serve Him, HIs name is in their foreheads.


Revelation 13:16 And he causeth all, both small and great, rich and poor, free and bond, to receive a mark in their right hand, or in their foreheads:

Revelation 14:11 And the smoke of their torment ascendeth up for ever and ever: and they have no rest day nor night, who worship the beast and his image, and whosoever receiveth the mark of his name.

Revelation 22:3 And there shall be no more curse: but the throne of God and of the Lamb shall be in it; and his servants shall serve him:
4 And they shall see his face; and his name shall be in their foreheads.
Read Rev 7 about those being sealed. The seal is the same as a mark so it depends on whose seal or mark you get.
 
Read Rev 7 about those being sealed. The seal is the same as a mark so it depends on whose seal or mark you get.
The seal is the promises of hope we are saved by in the Son of God, Jesus Christ.

God establishes us in Christ, sealed us and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

In whom we trusted, after we heard the word of truth, the gospel of our salvation, in whom we believed, and were sealed with the Holy Spirit of promise.



2 Corinthians 1:19 For the Son of God, Jesus Christ, who was preached among you by us, even by me and Silvanus and Timotheus, was not yea and nay, but in him was yea.
20 For all the promises of God in him are yea, and in him Amen, unto the glory of God by us.
21 Now he which stablisheth us with you in Christ, and hath anointed us, is God;
22 Who hath also sealed us, and given the earnest of the Spirit in our hearts.

Ephesians 1:13 In whom ye also trusted, after that ye heard the word of truth, the gospel of your salvation: in whom also after that ye believed, ye were sealed with that holy Spirit of promise,
 
The Ancient picture View attachment 15358 is a type of "mark", probably of two sticks crossed to mark a place similar to the Egyptian hieroglyph of a picture of two crossed sticks. This letter has the meanings of mark, sign or signature.
The Modern Hebrew, Arabic and Greek names for this letter is tav (or taw), a Hebrew word meaning, mark. Hebrew, Greek and Arabic agree that the sound for this letter is "t".
The early pictograph View attachment 15359 evolved intoView attachment 15360 in the Middle Semitic script and continued to evolve into in the Late Semitic Script. From the middle Semitic script comes the Modern Hebrew ת. The Early Semitic script is the origin of the Greek and the Latin T

So the "mark" in Ezekial 9:4 was a cross
The cross is the mark of the (beast / nation.)

The Cross as a Talisman

A talisman is an object that someone believes holds magical properties that brings good luck protecting the possessor from evil or harm.



A plenary indulgence removes all punishment due for sins. The Cross on the Catholics death bed is for that purpose.





Yahshua did not die on a "cross", but died upon a torture stake, for that is the meaning of the Greek word stauros, and is used interchangeably by the Bible writers with the Greek word xylon, translated as "tree" or "wood" by the King James Bible.(Acts 5:30)

For Yahshua to become the "accursed" one, to fulfill the Mosaic Law, it was required for him to die upon a "tree" or more literally a "stake", for Deuteronomy 21:22,23 says: " And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree.(Hebrew ‛ets´) His body shall not remain all night upon the tree (Hebrew ‛ets´), but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God."

The apostle Paul quoted from Deuteronomy 21:23, saying that "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree (Greek xylon ):"(Gal 3:13, King James Bible)

Thus, the Hebrew word ‛ets´ corresponds to the Greek word xylon and means a timber, or a "beam". To show that this is the case, at 1 Kings 6:15, in building the temple, it said that Solomon, "from the floor of the house up to the rafters of the ceiling he overlaid (the walls) with timber (Hebrew ‛ets´) inside." Thus, "timber" ("a large piece of wood, usually squared, used in a building, for example, as a beam", Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005) of cedar was used to overlay the walls, and was upright "timber" of wood and not "cross" forms.

The online interlinear Scripture4all renders xylon as "wood". Another Greek word used for the instrument Yahshua died upon, stauros, is at Matthew 10:38; 16:24; 27:32, 40, 42 and is rendered as "pale"(online interlinear Scripture4all ), which means "fence stake: a pointed slat of wood for a fence."(Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005) That he died upon a "pole" or "stake", is that the apostle Peter said of Yahshua, that "we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:"(Acts 10:39, King James Bible; "tree", Greek xylon)

The apostle Paul told the Jews in Antioch in Pisidia, that "when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him (Yahshua) down from the tree." (Acts 13:29, King James Bible; "tree", Greek xylon) The apostle Peter wrote: "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree."(1 Peter 2:24, King James Bible; "tree", Greek xylon) Hence, Yahshua died upon a "tree" or "pale", a "stake", not cross.

The Hebrews had no word for the traditional cross. To designate such an implement, they used “warp and woof,” alluding to yarns running lengthwise in a fabric and others going across it on a loom.(Lev 13:56-59) The French Dictionnaire Encyclopédique Universel (Encyclopedic Universal Dictionary) says: “For a long time we believed that the cross, considered a religious symbol, was specifically for Christians. This is not the case.” The book Dual Heritage—The Bible and the British Museum (1986) states: “It may come as a shock to know that there is no word such as ‘cross’ in the Greek of the New Testament. The word translated ‘cross’ is always the Greek word [stau·ros´] meaning a ‘stake’ or ‘upright pale.’ The cross was not originally a Christian symbol; it is derived from Egypt and Constantine.”

The New Strong's Concise Concordance & Vine's Concise Dictionary of the Bible states that the meaning of "stauros (4716) denotes, primarily , "an upright pale or stake." On such malefactors were nailed for execution. Both the noun and the verb stauroo, "to fasten to a stake or pale," are originally to be distinguished from the ecclesiastical form of a two beamed "cross." The shape of the latter had its origin in ancient Chaldea, and was used as the symbol of the god Tammuz (being in the shape of the mystic Tau, the initial of his name) in that country and in adjacent lands, including Egypt. By the middle of the 3rd cent. A.D. the churches had either departed from, or had travestied, certain doctrines of the Christian faith. In order to increase the prestige of the apostate ecclesiastical system pagans were received into the churches apart from regeneration by faith, and were permitted largely to retain their pagan signs and symbols. Hence the Tau or T, in its most frequent form, with the cross-piece lowered, was adopted to stand for the "cross" of Christ."(Vine's Concise Dictionary of the Bible, pg 75, 1999 edition)

Under the Hebrew word ‛ets´ (6086), Vine's Concise Dictionary of the Bible says "tree; wood; timber; stick; stalk." It goes on to say that "this word may signify a single "tree," as it does in Gen. 2:9; or a genus of tree, Isa. 41:19. ‛ets´ can mean "wood as a material from which things are constructed, as a raw material to be carved, Exod. 31:5. Large unprocessed pieces of "wood or timber" are also signified by ‛ets´, Hag 1:8. The end product of wood already processed and fashioned into something may be indicated by ‛ets´, Lev 11:32. This word means "stick" or "piece of wood" in Ezek. 37:16...‛ets´ one time means "stalk," Josh. 2:6."(pg 387)

And under the Greek word xylon (3586), Vine's Concise Dictionary of the Bible says "wood, a piece of wood, anything made of wood," is used, with the rendering "tree,"....the tree being the stauros, the upright pale or stake to which Romans nailed those who were thus to be executed, Acts 5:30; 10:39; 13:29; 1 Pet 2:24."(pg 387-88)

Thus, whether it be ‛ets´, xylon, or stauros, the meaning was the same, that of a "tree", "timber", "wood", "stick", or "upright pale or stake" and not a cross.
 
So the conclusion/truth is, we are saved by believing in the right name/mark of His name in our foreheads. ( not the wrong advice/lie.)


Acts 2:21 And it shall come to pass, that whosoever shall call on the name of the Lord shall be saved.

Acts 4:10 Be it known unto you all, and to all the people of Israel, that by the name of Jesus Christ of Nazareth, whom ye crucified, whom God raised from the dead, even by him doth this man stand here before you whole.
11 This is the stone which was set at nought of you builders, which is become the head of the corner.
12 Neither is there salvation in any other: for there is none other name under heaven given among men, whereby we must be saved.

Romans 10:13 For whosoever shall call upon the name of the Lord shall be saved.
The name of (The Lord) is Yahwah. Jews and Catholics do not believe in revealing Gods name.

Yahuah = Yahwah. Yahwah means "Life Began." That is the name of our Holy Father.

Yahwah reveals His name to Moses
Exodus 3:13-15.

13 And Moses said to Elohiym, “Suppose I go to the siblings of the Israelites and say to them, 'The Elohiym of your forefathers has sent me to you,' and they ask me, 'What is His name?' What shall I say to them?”
14 And Elohiym said to Moses, “The Living that Lives. This is what you are to say to the Israelites: 'The Living has sent me to you.”
15 And Elohiym also said to Moses, “Say to the Israelites, 'Yahwah, the Elohiym of your forefathers; the Elohiym of Abraham, the Elohiym of Isaac and the Elohiym of Jacob has sent me to you.' That’s my name forever, the name by which I’m to be remembered, from generation to generation.”
 
Do you have a point you are trying to make? That the two-beam cross shape may have had its origins in ancient Chaldea is not relevant to whether or not Jesus was crucified on a two-beam cross. What matters is what the Romans did.

https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/crucifixion/ancient-crucifixion-images/

https://aleteia.org/2018/10/10/the-six-oldest-images-of-jesus/

https://www.britannica.com/topic/crucifixion-capital-punishment

"According to the literary sources, those condemned to crucifixion never carried the complete cross, despite the common belief to the contrary and despite the many modern reenactments of Jesus’ walk to Golgotha. Instead, only the crossbar was carried, while the upright was set in a permanent place where it was used for subsequent executions. As the first-century Jewish historian Josephus noted, wood was so scarce in Jerusalem during the first century A.D. that the Romans were forced to travel ten miles from Jerusalem to secure timber for their siege machinery."

https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org...on-methods-reveal-the-history-of-crucifixion/
The Romans did not use a cross unless they were making an offering to the Sun god. If Yahshua was hanged on a cross, then he was not the Messiah to come. The Messiah had to die on a stake or post of a tree in order to fulfill Moses prophecy.
 
Do you have a point you are trying to make? That the two-beam cross shape may have had its origins in ancient Chaldea is not relevant to whether or not Jesus was crucified on a two-beam cross. What matters is what the Romans did.

https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org/daily/biblical-topics/crucifixion/ancient-crucifixion-images/

https://aleteia.org/2018/10/10/the-six-oldest-images-of-jesus/

https://www.britannica.com/topic/crucifixion-capital-punishment

"According to the literary sources, those condemned to crucifixion never carried the complete cross, despite the common belief to the contrary and despite the many modern reenactments of Jesus’ walk to Golgotha. Instead, only the crossbar was carried, while the upright was set in a permanent place where it was used for subsequent executions. As the first-century Jewish historian Josephus noted, wood was so scarce in Jerusalem during the first century A.D. that the Romans were forced to travel ten miles from Jerusalem to secure timber for their siege machinery."

https://www.biblicalarchaeology.org...on-methods-reveal-the-history-of-crucifixion/
Seal of God.

In the scriptures Yahwah seals His people with His law.

Isaiah 8: 16
“Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.”


Revelation 7:2
Then I saw another messenger coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God.
Who is this person?


Revelation 9:4
They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.


Hebrews 8: 10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says Yahwah; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: And I will be there God, and they shall be my people:


Deuteronomy 6: 8
And you shall bind them (the laws of God) for a sign upon your hand, and they shall be in your forehead between your eyes.” (Memory is in the forehead.)


According to Daniel, in chapter 7:25, the Beasts hatred is directed against the commandment dealing with time. This can only mean the Sabbath commandment, which alone deals with an element of time, the fourth commandment.


Daniel 7: 25
And he (the little Horn) shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.


Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Yahshua the Christ.


Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Yahshua.


Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.



Question: Why are there Christians who preach against the laws of God?


Exodus 13:9
And it shall be for a sign to you upon your hand, and for a memorial between your eyes, that Yahwah's law may be in your mouth:


Exodus 31:13
Speak to the children of Israel, saying, truly my Sabbaths you shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that you may know that I am Yahwah that sanctifies you.


Exodus 31:17
It is a sign between me and the children of Israel forever: for in six days Yahwah made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested,…




Gentile converts are a part of Israel in the body of believers.

Ephesians 2:12

remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.


Ephesians 2:19
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household,...


Ephesians 3:6
This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.


The Seal of God is His commandments in accord with the New Covenant, along with the testimony of Yahshua. P.S. Baptism is a testimony to Yahshua also.
 
The cross is the mark of the (beast / nation.)

The Cross as a Talisman

A talisman is an object that someone believes holds magical properties that brings good luck protecting the possessor from evil or harm.



A plenary indulgence removes all punishment due for sins. The Cross on the Catholics death bed is for that purpose.





Yahshua did not die on a "cross", but died upon a torture stake, for that is the meaning of the Greek word stauros, and is used interchangeably by the Bible writers with the Greek word xylon, translated as "tree" or "wood" by the King James Bible.(Acts 5:30)

For Yahshua to become the "accursed" one, to fulfill the Mosaic Law, it was required for him to die upon a "tree" or more literally a "stake", for Deuteronomy 21:22,23 says: " And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree.(Hebrew ‛ets´) His body shall not remain all night upon the tree (Hebrew ‛ets´), but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God."

The apostle Paul quoted from Deuteronomy 21:23, saying that "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree (Greek xylon ):"(Gal 3:13, King James Bible)

Thus, the Hebrew word ‛ets´ corresponds to the Greek word xylon and means a timber, or a "beam". To show that this is the case, at 1 Kings 6:15, in building the temple, it said that Solomon, "from the floor of the house up to the rafters of the ceiling he overlaid (the walls) with timber (Hebrew ‛ets´) inside." Thus, "timber" ("a large piece of wood, usually squared, used in a building, for example, as a beam", Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005) of cedar was used to overlay the walls, and was upright "timber" of wood and not "cross" forms.

The online interlinear Scripture4all renders xylon as "wood". Another Greek word used for the instrument Yahshua died upon, stauros, is at Matthew 10:38; 16:24; 27:32, 40, 42 and is rendered as "pale"(online interlinear Scripture4all ), which means "fence stake: a pointed slat of wood for a fence."(Microsoft® Encarta® Reference Library 2005) That he died upon a "pole" or "stake", is that the apostle Peter said of Yahshua, that "we are witnesses of all things which he did both in the land of the Jews, and in Jerusalem; whom they slew and hanged on a tree:"(Acts 10:39, King James Bible; "tree", Greek xylon)

The apostle Paul told the Jews in Antioch in Pisidia, that "when they had fulfilled all that was written of him, they took him (Yahshua) down from the tree." (Acts 13:29, King James Bible; "tree", Greek xylon) The apostle Peter wrote: "Who his own self bare our sins in his own body on the tree."(1 Peter 2:24, King James Bible; "tree", Greek xylon) Hence, Yahshua died upon a "tree" or "pale", a "stake", not cross.

The Hebrews had no word for the traditional cross. To designate such an implement, they used “warp and woof,” alluding to yarns running lengthwise in a fabric and others going across it on a loom.(Lev 13:56-59) The French Dictionnaire Encyclopédique Universel (Encyclopedic Universal Dictionary) says: “For a long time we believed that the cross, considered a religious symbol, was specifically for Christians. This is not the case.” The book Dual Heritage—The Bible and the British Museum (1986) states: “It may come as a shock to know that there is no word such as ‘cross’ in the Greek of the New Testament. The word translated ‘cross’ is always the Greek word [stau·ros´] meaning a ‘stake’ or ‘upright pale.’ The cross was not originally a Christian symbol; it is derived from Egypt and Constantine.”

The New Strong's Concise Concordance & Vine's Concise Dictionary of the Bible states that the meaning of "stauros (4716) denotes, primarily , "an upright pale or stake." On such malefactors were nailed for execution. Both the noun and the verb stauroo, "to fasten to a stake or pale," are originally to be distinguished from the ecclesiastical form of a two beamed "cross." The shape of the latter had its origin in ancient Chaldea, and was used as the symbol of the god Tammuz (being in the shape of the mystic Tau, the initial of his name) in that country and in adjacent lands, including Egypt. By the middle of the 3rd cent. A.D. the churches had either departed from, or had travestied, certain doctrines of the Christian faith. In order to increase the prestige of the apostate ecclesiastical system pagans were received into the churches apart from regeneration by faith, and were permitted largely to retain their pagan signs and symbols. Hence the Tau or T, in its most frequent form, with the cross-piece lowered, was adopted to stand for the "cross" of Christ."(Vine's Concise Dictionary of the Bible, pg 75, 1999 edition)

Under the Hebrew word ‛ets´ (6086), Vine's Concise Dictionary of the Bible says "tree; wood; timber; stick; stalk." It goes on to say that "this word may signify a single "tree," as it does in Gen. 2:9; or a genus of tree, Isa. 41:19. ‛ets´ can mean "wood as a material from which things are constructed, as a raw material to be carved, Exod. 31:5. Large unprocessed pieces of "wood or timber" are also signified by ‛ets´, Hag 1:8. The end product of wood already processed and fashioned into something may be indicated by ‛ets´, Lev 11:32. This word means "stick" or "piece of wood" in Ezek. 37:16...‛ets´ one time means "stalk," Josh. 2:6."(pg 387)

And under the Greek word xylon (3586), Vine's Concise Dictionary of the Bible says "wood, a piece of wood, anything made of wood," is used, with the rendering "tree,"....the tree being the stauros, the upright pale or stake to which Romans nailed those who were thus to be executed, Acts 5:30; 10:39; 13:29; 1 Pet 2:24."(pg 387-88)

Thus, whether it be ‛ets´, xylon, or stauros, the meaning was the same, that of a "tree", "timber", "wood", "stick", or "upright pale or stake" and not a cross.

Jesus died on a cross not a torture stake. That was the way Romans crucified people.

"The Greek word for cross, (stauros), properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling (fencing in) a piece of ground. But a modification was introduced as the dominion and usages of Rome extended themselves through Greek-speaking countries. Even amongst the Romans, the crux (from which the word cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole, and always remained the more prominent part. But from the time that it began to be used as an instrument of punishment, a traverse piece of wood was commonly added: not however always then. … There can be no doubt, however, that the later sort was the more common, and that about the period of the Gospel Age, crucifixion was usually accomplished by suspending the criminal on a cross piece of wood.
… But the commonest form, it is understood, was that in which the upright piece of wood was crossed by another near the top, but not precisely at it, the upright pole running above the other, thus "a cross" and so making four, not merely two right angles. It was on a cross of this form, according to the general voice of tradition, that our Lord suffered.
... It may be added that crucifixion was abolished around the time of Constantine, in consequence of the sacred associations which the cross had now gathered around it."

(The Imperial Bible-Dictionary)
Note this is the full quote not the deceitfully edited version in the Watchtower publication.
 
Last edited:
The Romans did not use a cross unless they were making an offering to the Sun god. If Yahshua was hanged on a cross, then he was not the Messiah to come. The Messiah had to die on a stake or post of a tree in order to fulfill Moses prophecy.
That is not what history shows. Can you provide sources that support your position? That Jesus died on a cross is not relevant as to whether or not he was the Messiah. Your argument is begging the question.

Seal of God.

In the scriptures Yahwah seals His people with His law.

Isaiah 8: 16
“Bind up the testimony, seal the law among my disciples.”


Revelation 7:2
Then I saw another messenger coming up from the east, having the seal of the living God.
Who is this person?


Revelation 9:4
They were told not to harm the grass of the earth or any plant or tree, but only those people who did not have the seal of God on their foreheads.


Hebrews 8: 10
For this is the covenant that I will make with the house of Israel after those days, says Yahwah; I will put my laws into their mind, and write them in their hearts: And I will be there God, and they shall be my people:


Deuteronomy 6: 8
And you shall bind them (the laws of God) for a sign upon your hand, and they shall be in your forehead between your eyes.” (Memory is in the forehead.)


According to Daniel, in chapter 7:25, the Beasts hatred is directed against the commandment dealing with time. This can only mean the Sabbath commandment, which alone deals with an element of time, the fourth commandment.


Daniel 7: 25
And he (the little Horn) shall speak great words against the most High, and shall wear out the saints of the most High, and think to change times and laws: and they shall be given into his hand until a time and times and the dividing of time.


Revelation 12:17
And the dragon was wroth with the woman, and went to make war with the remnant of her seed, which keep the commandments of God, and have the testimony of Yahshua the Christ.


Revelation 14:12
Here is the patience of the saints: here are they that keep the commandments of God, and the faith of Yahshua.


Revelation 22:14
Blessed are they that do his commandments, that they may have right to the tree of life, and may enter in through the gates into the city.



Question: Why are there Christians who preach against the laws of God?


Exodus 13:9
And it shall be for a sign to you upon your hand, and for a memorial between your eyes, that Yahwah's law may be in your mouth:


Exodus 31:13
Speak to the children of Israel, saying, truly my Sabbaths you shall keep: for it is a sign between me and you throughout your generations; that you may know that I am Yahwah that sanctifies you.


Exodus 31:17
It is a sign between me and the children of Israel forever: for in six days Yahwah made heaven and earth, and on the seventh day he rested,…




Gentile converts are a part of Israel in the body of believers.

Ephesians 2:12

remember that at that time you were separate from Christ, excluded from citizenship in Israel and foreigners to the covenants of the promise, without hope and without God in the world.


Ephesians 2:19
Consequently, you are no longer foreigners and aliens, but fellow citizens with God's people and members of God's household,...


Ephesians 3:6
This mystery is that through the gospel the Gentiles are heirs together with Israel, members together of one body, and sharers together in the promise in Christ Jesus.


The Seal of God is His commandments in accord with the New Covenant, along with the testimony of Yahshua. P.S. Baptism is a testimony to Yahshua also.
I don't see what this has to do with what I said.
 
Jesus died on a cross not a torture stake. That was the way Romans crucified people.

"The Greek word for cross, (stauros), properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling (fencing in) a piece of ground. But a modification was introduced as the dominion and usages of Rome extended themselves through Greek-speaking countries. Even amongst the Romans, the crux (from which the word cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole, and always remained the more prominent part. But from the time that it began to be used as an instrument of punishment, a traverse piece of wood was commonly added: not however always then. … There can be no doubt, however, that the later sort was the more common, and that about the period of the Gospel Age, crucifixion was usually accomplished by suspending the criminal on a cross piece of wood.
… But the commonest form, it is understood, was that in which the upright piece of wood was crossed by another near the top, but not precisely at it, the upright pole running above the other, thus "a cross" and so making four, not merely two right angles. It was on a cross of this form, according to the general voice of tradition, that our Lord suffered.
... It may be added that crucifixion was abolished around the time of Constantine, in consequence of the sacred associations which the cross had now gathered around it."

(The Imperial Dictionary)
If Yahshua died on a cross, then he was not the Messiah to come. The Messiah to come had to die on a (post / stake) in order to fulfill prophecy
For Yahshua to become the "accursed" one, to fulfill the Mosaic Law, it was required for him to die upon a "tree" or more literally a "stake", for Deuteronomy 21:22,23 says: " And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree.(Hebrew ‛ets´) His body shall not remain all night upon the tree (Hebrew ‛ets´), but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God."(King James Bible)

The apostle Paul quoted from Deuteronomy 21:23, saying that "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree (Greek xylon ):"(Gal 3:13, King James Bible)

Snake is parabolic for sin. Christ was made a sin offering.
Numbers 21:9
So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived.
 
That is not what history shows. Can you provide sources that support your position? That Jesus died on a cross is not relevant as to whether or not he was the Messiah. Your argument is begging the question.


I don't see what this has to do with what I said.
Snake is parabolic for sin. Christ was made a sin offering.
Numbers 21:9
So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived.
 
Snake is parabolic for sin. Christ was made a sin offering.
Numbers 21:9
So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived.
Okay, but I don't see what this has to do with anything either.

If Yahshua died on a cross, then he was not the Messiah to come. The Messiah to come had to die on a (post / stake) in order to fulfill prophecy
For Yahshua to become the "accursed" one, to fulfill the Mosaic Law, it was required for him to die upon a "tree" or more literally a "stake", for Deuteronomy 21:22,23 says: " And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree.(Hebrew ‛ets´) His body shall not remain all night upon the tree (Hebrew ‛ets´), but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God."(King James Bible)

The apostle Paul quoted from Deuteronomy 21:23, saying that "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree (Greek xylon ):"(Gal 3:13, King James Bible)
If you want to make that argument, then you should be consistent and say that since Jesus wasn't actually hanged, that means he cannot be the Messiah either.
 
If Yahshua died on a cross, then he was not the Messiah to come. The Messiah to come had to die on a (post / stake) in order to fulfill prophecy
For Yahshua to become the "accursed" one, to fulfill the Mosaic Law, it was required for him to die upon a "tree" or more literally a "stake", for Deuteronomy 21:22,23 says: " And if a man have committed a sin worthy of death, and he be to be put to death, and thou hang him on a tree.(Hebrew ‛ets´) His body shall not remain all night upon the tree (Hebrew ‛ets´), but thou shalt in any wise bury him that day; (for he that is hanged is accursed of God."(King James Bible)

The apostle Paul quoted from Deuteronomy 21:23, saying that "Christ hath redeemed us from the curse of the law, being made a curse for us: for it is written, Cursed is every one that hangeth on a tree (Greek xylon ):"(Gal 3:13, King James Bible)

Snake is parabolic for sin. Christ was made a sin offering.
Numbers 21:9
So Moses made a bronze snake and put it up on a pole. Then when anyone was bitten by a snake and looked at the bronze snake, they lived.
As seems to be standard with you, if you can't answer a point you ignore it and post sometthing else.

Here is is again. Read it.
"The Greek word for cross, (stauros), properly signified a stake, an upright pole, or piece of paling, on which anything might be hung, or which might be used in impaling (fencing in) a piece of ground. But a modification was introduced as the dominion and usages of Rome extended themselves through Greek-speaking countries. Even amongst the Romans, the crux (from which the word cross is derived) appears to have been originally an upright pole, and always remained the more prominent part. But from the time that it began to be used as an instrument of punishment, a traverse piece of wood was commonly added: not however always then. … There can be no doubt, however, that the later sort was the more common, and that about the period of the Gospel Age, crucifixion was usually accomplished by suspending the criminal on a cross piece of wood.
… But the commonest form, it is understood, was that in which the upright piece of wood was crossed by another near the top, but not precisely at it, the upright pole running above the other, thus "a cross" and so making four, not merely two right angles. It was on a cross of this form, according to the general voice of tradition, that our Lord suffered.
... It may be added that crucifixion was abolished around the time of Constantine, in consequence of the sacred associations which the cross had now gathered around it."

(The Imperial Dictionary)

Note especially the sentence:
There can be no doubt, however, that the later sort was the more common, and that about the period of the Gospel Age, crucifixion was usually accomplished by suspending the criminal on a cross piece of wood.
 
Back
Top