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Bible Study The Meaning of "FOREKNEW" in Romans 8:29

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The Meaning of "FOREKNEW" in Romans 8:29


This is from the Appendix of the book "The Five Points of Calvinism: Defined, Defended, Documented" by David N. Steele and Curtis C. Thomas.


THE MEANING OF “FOREKNEW†IN ROMANS 8:29


"For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified." Romans 8:29,30

Broadly speaking there have been two general views as to the meaning and use of the word “foreknew†in Romans 8:29. One class of commentators (the Arminians) maintain that Paul is saying that God predestined to salvation those whom He foreknew would respond to His offer of grace (i.e., those whom He saw would of their own free will repent of their sins and believe the gospel). Godet, in commenting on Romans 8:29, asks the question: “In what respect did God thus foreknow them?†and answers that they were “foreknown as sure to fulfill the conditions of salvation, viz. faith; so: foreknown as His by faith.†1 The word "foreknew†is thus understood by Arminians to mean that God knew beforehand which sinners would believe, etc., and on the basis of this knowledge He predestined them unto salvation.

The other class of commentators (the Calvinists) reject the above view on two grounds. First, because the Arminians’ interpretation is not in keeping with the meaning of Paul’s language and second, because it is out of harmony with the system of doctrine taught in the rest of the Scriptures. Calvinists contend that the passage teaches that God set His heart upon (i.e., foreknew) certain individuals; these He predestined or marked out to be saved. Notice that the text does not say that God knew SOMETHING ABOUT particular individuals (that they would do this or that), but it states that God knew the individuals THEMSELVES – those whom He knew He predestined to be made like Christ. The word “foreknew†as used here is thus understood to be equivalent to “foreloved†– those who were the objects of God’s love, He marked out for salvation.

The questions raised by the two opposing interpretations are these: Did God look down through time and see that certain individuals would believe and thus predestine them unto salvation on the basis of this foreseen faith? Or did God set His heart on certain individuals and because of His love for them predestine that they should be called and given faith in Christ by the Holy Spirit and thus be saved? In other words, is the individual’s faith the cause or the result of God’s predestination?



A. The meaning of “foreknew†in Romans 8:29

God has always possessed perfect knowledge of all creatures and of all events. There has never been a time when anything past, present, or future was not fully known to Him.* But it is not His knowledge of future events (of what people would do, etc.) which is referred to in Romans 8:29,30, for Paul clearly states that those whom He foreknew He predestined, He called, He justified, etc. Since all men are not predestined, called, and justified, it follows that all men were not foreknown by God in the sense spoken of in verse 29.


It is for this reason that the Arminians are forced to add some qualifying notion. They read into the passage some idea not contained in the language itself such as those whom He foreknew would believe etc., He predestined, called and justified. But according to the Biblical usage of the words “know,†“knew,†and “foreknew†there is not the least need to make such an addition, and since it is unnecessary, it is improper. When the Bible speaks of God knowing particular individuals, it often means that He has special regard for them, that they are the objects of His affection and concern. For example in Amos 3:2, God, speaking to Israel says,“You only have I known of all the families of the earth; therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities.†The Lord knows about all the families of the earth, but He knew Israel in a special way.* They were His chosen people whom He had set His heart upon. See Deuteronomy 7:7,8; 10:15. Because Israel was His in a special sense He chastised them, cf. Hebrews 12:5,6.*God, speaking to Jeremiah, said, “Before I formed you in the womb, I knew you,†(Jeremiah 1:5). The meaning here is not that God knew about Jeremiah but that He had a special regard for the prophet before He formed him in his mother’s womb. Jesus also used the word “knew†in the sense of personal, intimate awareness. “On that day many will say to me, ‘Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and cast out demons in your name, and do many mighty works in your name?’ And then will I declare to them, ‘I never knew you; depart from me, you evildoers’ “ (Matt. 7:22,23). Our Lord cannot be understood here as saying, I knew nothing about you, for it is quite evident that He knew all too much about them – their evil character and evil works; hence, His meaning must be, I never knew you intimately nor personally, I never regarded you as the objects of my favor or love. Paul uses the word in the same way in I Corinthians 8:3, “But if one loves God, one is known by him,†and also II Timothy 2:19, “the Lord knows those who are His.†The Lord knows about all men but He only knows those “who love Him, who are called according to His purpose†(Rom 8:28) – those who are His!


Murray’s argument in favor of this meaning of “foreknew†is very good.*“It should be observed that the text says ‘whom He foreknew’; whom is the object of the verb and there is no qualifying addition.* This, of itself, shows that, unless there is some other compelling reason, the expression ‘whom he foreknew’ contains within itself the differentiation which is presupposed. If the apostle had in mind some ‘qualifying adjunct’ it would have been simple to supply it. Since he adds none we are forced to inquire if the actual terms he uses can express the differentiation implied. The usage of Scripture provides an affirmative answer. Although the term ‘foreknew’ is used seldom in the New Testament, it is altogether indefensible to ignore the meaning so frequently given to the word ‘know’ in the usage of Scripture; ‘foreknow’ merely adds the thought of ‘beforehand’ to the word ‘know’. Many times in Scripture ‘know’ has a pregnant meaning which goes beyond that of mere cognition. It is used in a sense practically synonymous with ‘love’, to set regard upon, to know with peculiar interest, delight, affection, and action (cf. Gen 18:19; Exod. 2:25; Psalm 1:6; 144:3; Jer. 1:5; Amos 3:2; Hosea 13:5; Matt 7:23; I Cor. 8:3; Gal. 4:9; II Tim. 2:19; I John 3:1).* There is no reason why this import of the word ‘know’ should not be applied to ‘foreknow’ in this passage, as also in 11:2 where it also occurs in the same kind of construction and where the thought of election is patently present (cf. 11:5,6). When this import is appreciated, then there is no reason for adding any qualifying notion and ‘whom He foreknew’ is seen to contain within itself the differentiating element required. It means ‘whom he set regard upon’ or ‘whom he knew from eternity with distinguishing affection and delight’ and is virtually equivalent to ‘whom he foreloved’. This interpretation, furthermore, is in agreement with the efficient and determining action which is so conspicuous in every other link of the chain – it is God who predestinates, it is God who calls, it is God who justifies, and it is He who glorifies. Foresight of faith would be out of accord with the determinative action which is predicated of God in these other instances and would constitute a weakening of the total emphasis at the point where we should least expect it….It is not the foresight of difference but the foreknowledge that makes difference to exist, not a foresight that recognizes existence but the foreknowledge that determines existence. It is a sovereign distinguishing love.†2


Hodge observes that “as to know is often to approve and love, it may express the idea of peculiar affection in this case; or it may mean to select or determine upon….The usage of the word is favourable to either modification of this general idea of preferring. ‘The people which he foreknew,’ i.e., loved or selected, Rom. 11:2; ‘Who verily was foreordained (Gr. foreknown), i.e., fixed upon, chosen before the foundation of the world.’ I Peter 1:20; II Tim. 2:19; John 10:14,15; see also Acts 2:23; I Peter 1:2. The idea, therefore, obviously is, that those whom God peculiarly loved, and by thus loving, distinguished or selected from the rest of mankind; or to express both ideas in one word, those whom he elected he predestined, etc.†3


Although God knew about all men before the world began, He did not know all men in the sense that the Bible sometimes uses the word “know,†i.e., with intimate personal awareness and love. It is in this latter sense that God** foreknew* those whom He predestined, called, and justified, as outlined in Romans 8:29,30!




B. Romans 8:29 does not refer to the foresight of faith, good works, etc.


As was pointed out above, it is unnecessary and therefore indefensible to add any qualifying notion such as faith to the verb foreknew in Romans 8:29. The Arminians make this addition, not because the language requires it, but because their theological system requires it – they do it to escape the doctrines of unconditional predestination and election. They read the notion of foreseen faith into the verse and then appeal to it in an effort to prove that predestination was based on foreseen events. Thus particular individuals are said to be saved, not because God willed that they should be saved (for He willed the salvation of everyone) but because they themselves willed to be saved. Hence salvation is make to depend ultimately on the individual’s will, not on the sovereign will of Almighty God – faith is understood to be man’s gift to God, not God’s gift to man.


Haldane, comparing Scripture with Scripture, clearly shows that the foreknowledge mentioned in Romans 8:29 cannot have reference to the foreseen faith, good works, or the sinner’s response to God’s call. “Faith cannot be the cause of foreknowledge, because foreknowledge is before predestination, and faith is the effect of predestination. ‘As many as were ordained to eternal life believed,’ Acts 13:48.* Neither can it be meant of the foreknowledge of good works, because these are the effects of predestination. ‘We are His workmanship, created in Christ Jesus unto good works; which God hath before ordained (or before prepared) that we should walk in them;’ Eph. 2:10. Neither can it be meant of foreknowledge of our concurrence with the external call, because our effectual calling depends not upon that concurrence, but upon God’s purpose and grace, given us in Christ Jesus before the world began, 2 Tim. 1:9. By this foreknowledge, then, is meant, as has been observed, the love of God towards those whom he predestinates to be saved through Jesus Christ. All the called of God are foreknown by Him, - that is, they are the objects of His eternal love, and their calling comes from this free love. ‘I have loved thee with an everlasting love; therefore with lovingkindness I have drawn thee,’ Jer. 31:3.†4


Murray, in rejecting the view that “foreknew†in Romans 8:29 refers to the foresight of faith, is certainly correct in stating that “It needs to be emphasized that the rejection of this interpretation is not dictated by a predestinarian interest. Even if it were granted that ‘foreknew’ means foresight of faith, the biblical doctrine of sovereign election is not thereby eliminated or disproven. For it is certainly true that God foresees faith;* he foresees all that comes to pass.* The question would then simply be: whence proceeds this faith which God foresees? And the only biblical answer is that the faith which God foresees is the faith he himself creates (cf John 3:3-8; 6:44;45,65; Eph. 2:8; Phil. 1:29; II Pet. 1:2). Hence his eternal foresight of faith is preconditioned by his decree to generate this faith in those whom he foresees as believing, and we are thrown back upon the differentiation which proceeds from God’s own eternal and sovereign election to faith and its consequents. The interest, therefore, is simply one of interpretation as it should be applied to this passage.* On exegetical grounds we shall have to reject the view that ‘foreknew’ refers to the foresight of faith.†5



1 Frederic Godet, Commentary on the Epistle to the Romans, p 325.* Italics are his.

2 John Murray, The Epistle to the Romans, Vol. I, pp. 316-318.* Italics are his.

3 Charles Hodge, Commentary on the Epistle to the Romans, pp. 283, 284. Italics are his.

4 Robert Haldane, Exposition of the Epistle to the Romans, p. 397.

5 Murray, Romans, Vol. I, p. 316.
 
JM said:
:wink: nice.


Hi JM,

I believe in predestination where the believer is saved by the will of God, as seen on 2 Thessalonians 2:13-14

I also believe that there's some of us that are destined for destruction, as shown on Jude 1:4

JM, I have found in the bible numerous passages that support our pre-exsitance.

What is your take on the subject?
 
Hello JM,

Our pre-existence as having a spiritual identity before receiving a body.
God knew us as spirits.

Some time tonight I will set up a web page on the subject, If you would like to comment after you check out the page that will be fine.
 
The Meaning of "FOREKNEW" in Romans 8:29


A. The meaning of “foreknew†in Romans 8:29

God has always possessed perfect knowledge of all creatures and of all events. There has never been a time when anything past, present, or future was not fully known to Him.* But it is not His knowledge of future events (of what people would do, etc.) which is referred to in Romans 8:29,30, for Paul clearly states that those whom He foreknew He predestined, He called, He justified, etc. Since all men are not predestined, called, and justified, it follows that all men were not foreknown by God in the sense spoken of in verse 29.
I find this paragraph to be non-comprehensible. Nevertheless, I do agree that it does not make sense for an Arminian (in which camp I would put myself) to argue that Romans 8:29 means that God looked ahead, saw who would freely accept Jesus and then pre-destined them to salvation. This is simply illogical because of a "cart before the horse" problem. Conceptually it makes no sense to say that God first foreknew and then pre-destined. The act of pre-destining is what establishes the fore-knowledge in question. So making is kind of argument is like putting the cause after the effect.

Of course, I think the Arminian has another option that is consistent with the content of the verse - to assert that the object of the verb "pre-destined" is the phrase "to be conformed to the image of His Son", meaning that these people are not pre-destined unto salvation, but rather, having accepted Christ as a free will act, are pre-destined to be conformed to the image of his Son.

The Calvinist may respond that this makes no sense either - how can Fred really be pre-destined to conformance unless he is also pre-destined unto salvation. After all, how can God pre-destine Fred to conformance, while leaving Fred free to choose salvation in the first place. The verse does not seem to work unless Fred is pre-destined unto salvation.

This is a pretty decent argument, but it does have a flaw. It is entirely conceivable to interpret this verse as follows: "God does not pre-destine who gets saved, but basically does pre-destine that any person who does choose salvation will be conformed unto Christ.

What this requires is the "injection" of a qualifier, not present in the text, to the effect that the person who gets "pre-destined for conformance" is actually "free" to choose salvation. Admittedly, this does "add to the text". And, admittedly, a literal reading, whereby such implicit qualifiers are not allowed, does seem to support the Calvinist reading. However, I will show in my next post that anyone who believes in God's perfect foreknowledge, does the exact same thing when making sense of 2 Kings 20: 1- 7.

Admitting to adding such a qualifier, we continue:

This is like God saying: I have decided that anyone who freely accepts the gift of salvation (ie. without My pre-destining them) will most assuredly be conformed to the image of Jesus. I pre-destine them to this
process of becoming Christlike, but I do not pre-destine them to salvation".

Remember, the form of the verse. For "X" whom he foreknew, He also predestined to be "Y". What is Y? The verse says "to be conformed to the image of his Son. This is conceptually distinct from the attainment of salvation. First, we attain salvation, then we are conformed.
 
Here is 2 Kings 20:1-7

1In those days Hezekiah became ill and was at the point of death. The prophet Isaiah son of Amoz went to him and said, "This is what the LORD says: Put your house in order, because you are going to die; you will not recover."
2 Hezekiah turned his face to the wall and prayed to the LORD, 3 "Remember, O LORD, how I have walked before you faithfully and with wholehearted devotion and have done what is good in your eyes." And Hezekiah wept bitterly.
4 Before Isaiah had left the middle court, the word of the LORD came to him: 5 "Go back and tell Hezekiah, the leader of my people, 'This is what the LORD, the God of your father David, says: I have heard your prayer and seen your tears; I will heal you. On the third day from now you will go up to the temple of the LORD. 6 I will add fifteen years to your life. And I will deliver you and this city from the hand of the king of Assyria. I will defend this city for my sake and for the sake of my servant David.' "
7 Then Isaiah said, "Prepare a poultice of figs." They did so and applied it to the boil, and he recovered.
If God knows the future fully, how is His statement (through Isaiah) "you will not recover" not a falsehood? The only answer that I have heard so far is basically this: "The statement 'you will not recover' needs to be understood as qualified by an implicit phrase "unless you repent and turn to Me'"

Anyone who claims this explanation gives up the right to demand that others not do the same thing for other texts. Specifically, a person who uses this explanation to preserve a view of God who knows the future exhaustively, has to at least allow for the introduction of an unstated qualifier in respect to Romans 8:29, namely that the set of persons who God "predestines to conformance to His Son" is a set of persons who have freely accepted Christ (i.e. without pre-destination to salvation).
 
In light of what the Bible has to say about God, taking the Bible as a whole, Drew's one verse [count it, just one], should be understood in light of the rest of God's word. God would have to be subject to time or exist in time for Him not to know future, but God created out of nothing [ex nihilo] and knows the end from the beginning...because He created it. God sees time like a time line with a start and a finish all at the same time, that's how the Bible descibes it...the end from the beginning.

1 Sam. 15:29, “And also the Glory of Israel will not lie or change His mind; for He is not a man that He should change His mind."

Do we have a contradiction? No. God knew Hezekiah would pray, in fact, God gave Hezakiah fifteen more years...God knew when He would take his life, that much is clear.

1 John 3:20 For if our heart condemn us, God is greater than our heart, and knoweth all things.

Drew, I understand this verse causes you problems, but it's one verse...one thread in the garment...one brush stroke in the painting...one tree in the forest...one hair on the head...one verse!

Peace,

jm
 
Infralapsarianism

1. Create.
2. Permit Fall.
3. Elect some [Rom. 8:29], pass over the rest.
4. Provide salvation for elect in Christ.
5. Call elect to salvation in time.

OR

Supralapsarianism

1. Elect some [Rom. 8:29], reprobate rest.
2. Create.
3. Permit Fall.
4. Provide salvation for elect.
5. Call elect to salvation.

I'd fall into the supra camp...

I don't think the soul needs to pre-exist for Rom. 8:29 to make sense...when we dig into the deeper myteries of God we'll always come up short. The human mind is finite, God is infinite.
 
JM said:
Drew's one verse [count it, just one], should be understood in light of the rest of God's word.
I have presented other verses in support of open theism. Interested persons can refer to a couple of threads on this topic.

Besides, the 2 Kings 20 stuff is part of Scripture and cannot be swept aside. I still await an explanation that does not require the injection of an additional unstatesd qualifier (e.g. "unless you repent and turn to me"). If one admits to such qualifiers, the same latitude must be extended to all texts, including Romans 9:28.
 
Dave, thanks for excerpt.

I think that the author does a very good job of explaining why a qualifier isn't needed in Romans 8:29. The one that I think is the most core is the following.

It is out of harmony with the system of doctrine taught in the rest of Scriptures.

I think if something contradicts the basic principal, and teaching, of Scripture as a whole, then it can be eliminated very easily. Usually, if I do not eliminate something that contradicts a teaching that is found in Scripture as a whole, it's because I am clinging to a specific verse to try and justify my own view over what God's Word actually teaches, and what I perceived God to be in my own imagination, tradition, and sentiment. I have done this, and still do it. There are certain passages that I continue to have struggles with because of this, I believe.


I think in 2 Kings 20 that we can assume a prequalifer is needed because the text actually shows there is evidence of a prequalifer by the action of God in this passage. This is obvious. This does not mean that we must apply prequalifiers across the board, though. However, I will admit that sometimes we do need to apply prequalifers where the text doesn't make it so obvious, as it does with the 2 Kings passage, but they must fit in with the truth of Scripture as a whole, and should be based on the truth of God's Word, not man's doctrine (old, modern, Arminian, or Calvinist). I think all denominations are guilty of doing this in passages that do not mesh with their own teaching.

The goal of a believer should be finding the truth of Scripture no matter what camp they hear if from, and be willing to shed their own ideas to embrace God's truth rather than build a good argument for their point of view.

I am of the opinion that Romans 8:29 is not in need of a prequalifier because it is already in harmony with what Scripture teaches as a whole in the matter of God's foreknowledge.

The Lord bless you all.
 
lovely said:
I think in 2 Kings 20 that we can assume a prequalifer is needed because the text actually shows there is evidence of a prequalifer by the action of God in this passage. This is obvious.
If it is obvious why a pre-qualifier is needed, then please explain. But please do not construct an argument that subtly assumes the conclusion in order to establish the very same conclusion.

I maintain that the text does not demand such a qualifier. I think that what demands the qualifier is the mindset that is brought to the text - a mindset that involves a belief in the exhaustive fore-knowledge of God. I have seen no text, or combination of texts, that justifies such a belief. I see texts that justifies a belief that God knows certain things about the future, like the number of days we each shall live. I also read people who argue along the lines "if God knows the number of days we all live, he must know everything" This is simply not correct reasoning. God can know the number of days I will live and not know a lot of things about the future.

One jumps to unjustified conclusions if one merely assumes that God's knowledge of some future events justifies a belief that He knows all future events. People seem to argue that since the Scriptures establish that God knows a lot of things about the future (and this I do not deny), He must know everything about the future. This is not at all self-evident and the case needs to be actually made.
 
John here: One does what??

Quote: "One jumps to unjustified conclusions if one merely assumes that God's knowledge of some future events justifies a belief that He knows all future events. People seem to argue that since the Scriptures establish that God knows a lot of things about the future (and this I do not deny), He must know everything about the future. This is not at all self-evident and the case needs to be actually made."

God makes a [DOCUMENTED] case with the K.J. verses of Ecclesiastes 1:9-10 & the Ecclesiastes 3:15 verse. Think it through! And if that does not help us out? Check the K.J. on Romans 4:17's last part of the verse ".. and calls things that are not as though they were." How can He do that if He does not know the future? :wink:
 
John the Baptist said:
God makes a [DOCUMENTED] case with the K.J. verses of Ecclesiastes 1:9-10 & the Ecclesiastes 3:15 verse. Think it through! And if that does not help us out? Check the K.J. on Romans 4:17's last part of the verse ".. and calls things that are not as though they were." How can He do that if He does not know the future? :wink:
Ecclesiastes 1:9-10 follows (KJV):

The thing that hath been, it is that which shall be; and that which is done is that which shall be done: and there is no new thing under the sun.

Is there any thing whereof it may be said, See, this is new? it hath been already of old time, which was before us.


I think this text is clearly a poetic way of saying something like this: "There are patterns to life - the same kinds of things keep happening throughout history" I think the author is referring to patterns in the affairs of men and in the world, e.g. throughout all time, children will rebel against parents, young men will enthralled by thoughts of glory in war, etc.

So this text only shows that God (and maybe even we) can expect these sorts of patterns to repeat. This is partial knowledge of the future. No one would say that knowledge of these general patterns constitutes exhaustive knowledge of the future. The fact that there is "nothing new under the sun" does indeed suggest a general knowledge of the future, but by no means suggests that God knows everything about the future.

Ecclesiastes 3:15 in KJV

That which hath been is now; and that which is to be hath already been; and God requireth that which is past.

Same thing with this verse. It is obviously not a statement that supports exhaustive foreknowledge.

Romans 4:17

(As it is written, I have made thee a father of many nations,) before him whom he believed, even God, who quickeneth the dead, and calleth those things which be not as though they were.

To me, this text refers to God's ability to make his will manifest in the world - to turn His wishes into reality. To this extent, it seems to suggest some foreknowledge. But it simply does not justify a claim of exhaustive foreknowledge. The context is a story about Abraham, so the statement that God "calleth those things which be not as though they were" reveals the principle that God can "make real that which He sets his mind to", in this case making a nation out of the seed of Abraham. It does not mean that God knows what flavour of ice cream Fred will eat on 21 April, 2011. We know that God had a specific intent re Abraham, we simply do not know he has a similar intent about Fred's selection of ice cream.
 
lovely said:

****
John once more! :wink: With not wanting to fall into the Titus 3:9-11 group, I will just let it ride with another Inspired Word found in 1 John 4:6 regardless for which ever of us it speaks to?
 
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