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The Myth of saying that Jesus Christ died for all men without exception !

MarkT said:
That's right. God creates men for destruction
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:o can you explain that please.

MarkT said:
God creates men for his own purpose and he can do anything he wants with them. However something very special has happened. Through Jesus Christ, we have gained access to the Father. Wow! We can actually petition God to save men. That's incredible if you think about it.

While anything is possible with God, I believe what Jesus prophesied is what will be. So I agree, Jesus died for his sheep and he will not lose any. That's certainly good to know that we are in our Father's hand and no one can snatch us away from him. However, if God and Christ are at home in you, it follows that you should have the desire to save all. As Paul said, 'God our Saviour desires all men to be saved.' So if that is true, the desire to save all men should be in you. If you are his sheep. Jesus even went down to preach to the spirits in prison ie. the Sodomites, presumably to save some of them.

That doesn't preclude my feeling like striking out when men trespass against me. But vengeance is the Lord's. Still I pray for those who have shown me kindness, that the Father will save them on my account. So we should do, so I believe, since we have access to the Father through our Lord Jesus Christ, if it be the Father''s will that he will save some of them. As Paul said, 'it is good and acceptable'.

If you are his, then remember, your righteousness must exceed that of the scribes and the Pharisees. Mt. 5:20 Don't start acting like them, boasting of your standing before God and saluting only your brethren. Our Father who is in heaven makes his sun rise on the evil and the good, and sends rain on the just and on the unjust.

1 Timothy 4:10
For to this end we toil and strive, because we have our hope set on the living God, who is the Savior of all men, especially of those who believe.
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Insightful and refreshing, thank you and God bless you! ;)
 
savedbygrace57 said:
thisn



Thats works salvation !
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maybe you should rewrite the Bible because salvation is the free gift. for it to be a gift we must accept it. as i stated early on i have been down this road many times. i know what scriptures you will use and what definitions you will use.
i love to discuss Bible - i dont do deep theology.. i keep it on a level a 10 year old child can understand.. as for my part i have no desire to continue on this subject.
 
savedbygrace57 said:
What scripture states that Jesus Christ died for all mankind without exception ? I cannot take your word for it.

When the scriptures say something which is very clear by inference we cannot demand that it be said in a particular way.
1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

ALL MEN (Its is also reasonable to infer that it includes the ladies as well or else you will be saying that only men will be saved)

13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
(ALL THAT BELIEVE is crystal clear, there is no need to add the conditional 'without exception'
It is like the rich man asking Abraham to send Lazarus to his brothers that they might understand, but Abraham said that they have the prophets, meaning that they have the scriptures. But if we demand that the scriptures should state specifically according to the wishes of each one of us. Its impossible. Its again a question of belief, if you believe that it means everyone you're on the right track. Anyway, this has one condition, 'that they believe'
Althought Jesus died to save everyone, they that do not believe it cannot receive salvation. Its like this, a gift becomes a gift only when the person being given it, accepts it!
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Agape said:
:o can you explain that please.


Insightful and refreshing, thank you and God bless you! ;)
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Even though God desires all men to be saved, it does not mean he creates all men to be saved. False teachers and false prophets, for example, will wish they were never born.

The scribes and the Pharisees were serpents. Judas was a devil.
 
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karikasery said:
savedbygrace57 said:
What scripture states that Jesus Christ died for all mankind without exception ? I cannot take your word for it.

When the scriptures say something which is very clear by inference we cannot demand that it be said in a particular way.
1:7 The same came for a witness, to bear witness of the Light, that all men through him might believe.

ALL MEN (Its is also reasonable to infer that it includes the ladies as well or else you will be saying that only men will be saved)

13:39 And by him all that believe are justified from all things, from which ye could not be justified by the law of Moses.
(ALL THAT BELIEVE is crystal clear, there is no need to add the conditional 'without exception'
It is like the rich man asking Abraham to send Lazarus to his brothers that they might understand, but Abraham said that they have the prophets, meaning that they have the scriptures. But if we demand that the scriptures should state specifically according to the wishes of each one of us. Its impossible. Its again a question of belief, if you believe that it means everyone you're on the right track. Anyway, this has one condition, 'that they believe'
Althought Jesus died to save everyone, they that do not believe it cannot receive salvation. Its like this, a gift becomes a gift only when the person being given it, accepts it!
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The free gift of righteousness is not something you accept. It is a gift that is received by his sheep.
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mark

Even though God desires all men to be saved,
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The all men God desires to be saved shall be saved, or He is not God ! Job 23:13

13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
 
savedbygrace57 said:
mark



The all men God desires to be saved shall be saved, or He is not God ! Job 23:13

13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
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But isn't that everyone?

2 Peter 3:9 NIV

The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2
 
Grazer said:
But isn't that everyone?

2 Peter 3:9 NIV

The Lord is not slow in keeping his promise, as some understand slowness. Instead he is patient with you, not wanting anyone to perish, but everyone to come to repentance.

Sent from my HTC Desire S using Tapatalk 2
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The everyone God wants to come to repentance shall come to Repentance !
 
savedbygrace57 said:
jc

Yes it is, and I have given ample evidence in this thread !
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did you assume that if all things are possible for God then He very easy can save all humans/souls of the universe so that His will and plan quite easily can turn out that from the very beginning is all-saving?!, because He can afford it

Luke 18:27 "And he said, The things which are impossible with men are possible with God.",

Luke 1:37 "For with God nothing shall be impossible.",

Mark 10:27 "for with God all things are possible."

Blessings
 
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grazer

But God wants everyone to come to repentance,
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Thats no problem with my God, the all He wants to come to Repentance shall all come to repentance ! Job 23:13

13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.

Christ gives them Repentance Acts 5:31,11:18

31 Him hath God exalted with his right hand to be a Prince and a Saviour, for to give repentance to Israel, and forgiveness of sins.

18 When they heard these things, they held their peace, and glorified God, saying, Then hath God also to the Gentiles granted repentance unto life.
 
i really don,t have that big of issue with calvinism... all though i do strongly disagree with it..i have read about every defense there is. only his sheep we become his sheep when we get saved.. the biggest issue is you make it sound your the only one saved.because you been selected for SALVATION.. they call it the free gift for the who so ever shall ..stop twisting scriptures around..
 
MarkT said:
Those that are called for his purpose will be saved.
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The all men God desires to be saved shall be saved, or He is not God ! Job 23:13

13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
 
MarkT said:
Those that are called for his purpose will be saved.
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savedbygrace57 said:
The all men God desires to be saved shall be saved, or He is not God ! Job 23:13

13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
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Romans 8:28-30 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. :yes:wave
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
 
John 1:29
The next day he saw Jesus coming toward him, and said, “Behold, the Lamb of God, who takes away the sin of the world!

He takes away the sin of the world. But in particular, the Shepherd laid down his life for his sheep. That's consistent with 1 Timothy 4:10 where Paul says he is the saviour of all men, especially believers. So you could say both sides in this debate are right. If you take a narrow view and you want to be more specific, you would say Jesus died for his sheep. But the wide view is also correct. God is the God of all and the Saviour of all men. I would call one a general view and the other more specific. If you want to get really specific, 'he who does the will of my Father who is in heaven.' Mt. 7:21
 
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Agape said:
Romans 8:28-30 And we know that all things work together for good to those who love God, to those who are the called according to His purpose. :yes:wave
29 For whom He foreknew, He also predestined to be conformed to the image of His Son, that He might be the firstborn among many brethren. 30 Moreover whom He predestined, these He also called; whom He called, these He also justified; and whom He justified, these He also glorified.
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The all men God desires to be saved shall be saved, or He is not God ! Job 23:13

13 But he is in one mind, and who can turn him? and what his soul desireth, even that he doeth.
 
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