The nature of truth!

[Hopeful]

Can you be saved without a priest?

Good morning Don.
Yes, we can be saved without priests.
Were there any priests around when Cornelius came to the faith?
How about Paul?
Lydia?
The Philippian jailer?
The twelve at Ephesus?
Christians have one priest, and He is Jesus.
God has, however, gracefully supplied bishops/pastors and deacons and brethren to teach and guide His flocks.
Priesthood was dissolved at the end of the OT.

 

[Hopeful]

Are There are no priests in the new covenant?

Just one, Jesus the high priest.
Unless you want to consider that all converts are priests, as per 1 Peter 2:5..."Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ."

 

[Hopeful]

Christ reformed the mosaic covenant into the new covenant Christian church in His own blood. Heb 9:10 so the new covenant has many similarities to the old covenant:

There may be the realization of the figurative pieces of the OT by the NT's actuality.

Nature, structure, requirements:
Both have a Temple:

Really?
Jesus fulfills the OT temple by being the NT temple.
In Him is God, and by Him we have access to God.

Altar:

Burnt sacrifices passed away with the OT.
We have no need of an altar in the NT.

Ark of the covenant

Actualized by the gift of the Holy Spirit given to the truly repentant.
God in us.

Triple Priesthood: high priesthood, ministerial priesthood, common priesthood.

The OT picture of what Jesus does in the NT.

Sacrifice:

We can still fast and give of our own to the poor.
So you are correct about that remaining in he NT

Sacraments:

Phony name for the essence of Christian life.

Eternal flame:

That does indeed remain, if you are discussing the lake of fire.

Golden sensor with sweet smelling incense:

OT presage of our own NT prayers.

Both are the ark of salvation:

Both the OT and NT are the ark of salvation?
The ark was a gold covered box.
Part of the seat of God at His visitations to the OT temple.
Done away with at the start of the NT wherein we have access to God without artificial ceremony.

Initiation:
Mosaic: Circumcision
Christian: Faith and baptism

I will keep the water baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of past sins.
It was the fulfillment of the OT's circumcision of the flesh by the NT's circumcision of the heart.

Doctrine of constancy or Unchangeable nature of Christ, His church, and His doctrine:

That is a NT doctrine only.

Christ promised to remain with his church Matt 28:19 acts 1:8

Yes, He did.

Biblical principle:
Matthew 7:18
A good tree cannot bring forth evil fruit, neither can a corrupt tree bring forth good fruit.
No bad fruit from the church, no evil.

I am glad to hear there are others out there who live without sinning.

The church founded by Christ is the ark of salvation:

That is a good simile.

Only the good fruit of grace and truth unto salvation:
Cannot teach error: matt 5:14 Matt 16:18-19 Matt 28:19 Lk 10:16 Jn 20:21 acts 1:8 acts 2:42 1 Tim 3:15
The church must teach, proclaim, define the truths revealed by Christ and condemn all opposing errors!

Agreed.

But justice
Church two edge sword
State exicuting justice
Refuse to stop teaching error

You kind of fanned out there.
Got a point?

In order to believe in a reformation you must believe in the one true church founded by Christ
Matt 28:19
Mark 16: 14 Afterward he appeared unto the eleven as they sat at meat, and upbraided them with their unbelief and hardness of heart, because they believed not them which had seen him after he was risen.
15 And he said unto them, Go ye into all the world, and preach the gospel to every creature.
16 He that believeth and is baptized shall be saved; but he that believeth not shall be damned.

OK.

Exodus 25:9
According to all that I shew thee, after the pattern of the tabernacle, and the pattern of all the instruments thereof, even so shall ye make it.

And Moses did.

Hebrews 8:5
Who serve unto the example and shadow of heavenly things, as Moses was admonished of God when he was about to make the tabernacle: for, See, saith he, that thou make all things according to the pattern shewed to thee in the mount.
Christ reformed the mosaic covenant made in a pattern of the heavenly realities!

He Himself fulfilled the presages.

New Testament in His blood!
1 cor 11:25

OK.
We can also rejoice in the differences in the NT from the OT.
Freedom from sin, for starters.
Freedom from walking in and after the flesh.
Freedom from 400 plus rules that could not make a man righteous.
Freedom from dependence on a priest to approach God on our behalf.
Much more too.

 

[Hopeful]

Who’s gonna offer the “sacrifice of Christ”?

He did it Himself.

 

[donadams]

Good morning Don.
Yes, we can be saved without priests.
Were there any priests around when Cornelius came to the faith?
How about Paul?
Lydia?
The Philippian jailer?
The twelve at Ephesus?
Christians have one priest, and He is Jesus.
God has, however, gracefully supplied bishops/pastors and deacons and brethren to teach and guide His flocks.
Priesthood was dissolved at the end of the OT.

1st I asked this question to illustrate how we can be wrong, very wrong. Christ is the Only savior and He is a priest heb 7:17 and high priest heb 8:1

So it is impossible to obtain salvation without a priest!
Thanks

 

[donadams]

Good morning Don.
Yes, we can be saved without priests.
Were there any priests around when Cornelius came to the faith?
How about Paul?
Lydia?
The Philippian jailer?
The twelve at Ephesus?
Christians have one priest, and He is Jesus.
God has, however, gracefully supplied bishops/pastors and deacons and brethren to teach and guide His flocks.
Priesthood was dissolved at the end of the OT.

2nd yes Peter and Paul and all apostles are priests
Christ cannot be high priest heb 8:1 without having authority over low priests

More info sorry it’s lengthy

The Mosaic covenant priesthood:

Arron and His successors: high priests over the low priests, the Levites:

The common priesthood of the people: ex 19:6

The three fold new covenant priesthood: and priesthood in scripture is plural.

High priesthood: “Jesus Christ”
acts 10:14
heb 5:1
heb 8:1
heb 8:3


Ministerial priesthood: “apostles & their successors, and those they ordain” (low priests)
Mk 3:14
Jn 15:16
Jn 20:23
acts 1:15-26
acts 14:23
Acts 16:4
Rom 15:16
1 cor 9:14
1 Tim 3:1-2
1 Tim 2:7
1 Tim 4:14
Phil 1:1
James 5:14

The ministerial priesthood acts in “the person of Christ” so it is Christ who acts thru them vicariously.
2 cor 2:10


Royal priesthood: “baptized members of Jesus Christ”
1 pet 2:5-9


Christ reformed the mosaic covenant into the new and eternal covenant!

The new covenant was a reformation of the mosaic covenant so it has many similarities. Heb 9:10
Heb 10:9

Old Israel:

Ex 19:6
And ye shall be unto me a kingdom of priests, and an holy nation. These are the words which thou shalt speak unto the children of Israel.

New Israel:

1 pet 2:5-9
5 Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ.

6 Wherefore also it is contained in the scripture, Behold, I lay in Sion a chief corner stone, elect, precious: and he that believeth on him shall not be confounded.

7 Unto you therefore which believe he is precious: but unto them which be disobedient, the stone which the builders disallowed, the same is made the head of the corner,

8 And a stone of stumbling, and a rock of offence, even to them which stumble at the word, being disobedient: whereunto also they were appointed.

9 But ye are a chosen generation, a royal priesthood, an holy nation, a peculiar people; that ye should shew forth the praises of him who hath called you out of darkness into his marvellous light;

Gal 4:26 But Jerusalem which is above is free, which is the mother of us all.

27 For it is written, Rejoice, thou barren that bearest not; break forth and cry, thou that travailest not: for the desolate hath many more children than she which hath an husband.

28 Now we, brethren, as Isaac was, are the children of promise.

Gal 6:16
And as many as walk according to this rule, peace be on them, and mercy, and upon the Israel of God.

Apostles / bishops were ordained priests by Jesus Christ at the last supper: 1 cor 11:24-26
do this in memory of me. offer this in memory of me, the Passover was a sacrifice. Ex 12:27 1 cor 5:6-8

Worship:

Adoration: rev 7-12
Propitiatory reparation: Jn 1:29
rom 3:25 1 Jn 2:2 1 Jn 4:10
1 Jn 2:2 1 Jn 4:10
Thanksgiving: Phil 4:6
Petition: Phil 4:6

Spirit and truth:

John 4:24
God is a Spirit: and they that worship him must worship him in spirit and in truth.
Offering the eternal sacrifice of Christ for the salvation of all men!


There are three parts of the priesthood in the new covenant church:

In the order of Melchisedec,
Christ high priest:

His apostles low priests: or
Ministerial priesthood:

and the royal priesthood of Christians.

Christ is Eternal priest:

Heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Christ is High priest:

Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

Low priests / priesthood:

There must be low priests in the same order for a high priest to be over them. And the word in scripture “priesthood” is plural.

Jn 20:21-23 apostles have authority to forgive sins.

Christians Required to Confess you’re sins.

1 John 1:9
If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness.


Lamb of God:

John 1:29
The next day John seeth Jesus coming unto him, and saith, Behold the Lamb of God, which taketh away the sin of the world.

1 cor 5:7 …For even Christ our passover is sacrificed for us:

8 Therefore let us keep the feast, not with old leaven, neither with the leaven of malice and wickedness; but with the unleavened bread of sincerity and truth.

Christ is Eternal priest:

Heb 7:17 For he testifieth, Thou art a priest for ever after the order of Melchisedec.

Christ is High priest:

Heb 8:1 Now of the things which we have spoken this is the sum: We have such an high priest, who is set on the right hand of the throne of the Majesty in the heavens;

Low priests / priesthood:

There must be low priests in the same order for a high priest to be over them. And the word in scripture “priesthood” is plural.

The holy sacrifice of Christ:

Holy sacrifice of Christ is offered eternally, the office of a priest is to offer sacrifice, Christ is eternal priest so He offers an eternal sacrifice! Both by the high priest and the low priesthood.

once for all:

once bloody on the cross and for all time unbloody sacrifice, pure offering or clean oblation.

Jesus Christ at the last supper ordained the apostles as priests in the order of melchisedec, to offer His eternal sacrifice as he commanded them; do this in memory of me.

Do this in remembrance of me!

Luke 22:19
And he took bread, and gave thanks, and brake it, and gave unto them, saying, This is my body which is given for you: this do in remembrance of me.

1 Corinthians 11:24
And when he had given thanks, he brake it, and said, Take, eat: this is my body, which is broken for you: this do in remembrance of me.

1 Corinthians 11:25
After the same manner also he took the cup, when he had supped, saying, this cup is the new testament in my blood: this do ye, as oft as ye drink it, in remembrance of me.

Malachi 1:11

For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.

A pure offering:
A Clean oblation:
An Unbloody sacrifice:

No possibility for Protestants to offer worship to God in spirit and truth!

Both mosaic and the new Christian covenants have a:

Temple
Ark of the new covenant
Altar
Propitiatory sacrifice
Triple priesthood
With true worship, adoration, reparation, thanksgiving, and petition in the correct and true faith revealed from Christ, and inspired by His spirit and proposed by His holy divine new covenant church!

New covenant Temple: (the body of Christ) Jn 2:19
Ark of the new covenant: (Mary) Lk 1:35
Altar: (the cross) heb 13:10
New covenant Sacrifice: (the eternal propitiatory sacrifice of Christ)
Acts 20:28 Eph 2:13 heb 9
heb 10:19
Priesthood: (the new covenant priesthood of Christ) heb 7:17
High priest: (Christ is high priest) heb 8:1
Low priests (the order of melchisedec) heb 7:17
Golden censor with incense: rev 8:3

All to the glory of God!

 

[donadams]

Good morning Don.
Yes, we can be saved without priests.
Were there any priests around when Cornelius came to the faith?
How about Paul?
Lydia?
The Philippian jailer?
The twelve at Ephesus?
Christians have one priest, and He is Jesus.
God has, however, gracefully supplied bishops/pastors and deacons and brethren to teach and guide His flocks.
Priesthood was dissolved at the end of the OT.

3rd then Christ cannot be a priest or high priest and that is absurd!

Christ reformed the mosaic covenant into the new and eternal covenant!

The new covenant was a reformation of the mosaic covenant so it has many similarities. Heb 9:10
Heb 10:9

You cannot show the priesthood ending, everyone in the new covenant is a priest, high priesthood of Christ shared with his apostles, those they ordained to minister (low priests) and the priesthood of those who are in Christ
Thanks

 

[donadams]

Just one, Jesus the high priest.
Unless you want to consider that all converts are priests, as per 1 Peter 2:5..."Ye also, as lively stones, are built up a spiritual house, an holy priesthood, to offer up spiritual sacrifices, acceptable to God by Jesus Christ."

True as far as it goes but there were three mosaic covenant priesthoods and the are three new covenant priesthoods

Christ reformed the mosaic covenant heb 9:10 & heb 10:9

 

[donadams]

There may be the realization of the figurative pieces of the OT by the NT's actuality.

Really?
Jesus fulfills the OT temple by being the NT temple.
In Him is God, and by Him we have access to God.

Burnt sacrifices passed away with the OT.
We have no need of an altar in the NT.

Actualized by the gift of the Holy Spirit given to the truly repentant.
God in us.

The OT picture of what Jesus does in the NT.

We can still fast and give of our own to the poor.
So you are correct about that remaining in he NT

Phony name for the essence of Christian life.

That does indeed remain, if you are discussing the lake of fire.

OT presage of our own NT prayers.

Both the OT and NT are the ark of salvation?
The ark was a gold covered box.
Part of the seat of God at His visitations to the OT temple.
Done away with at the start of the NT wherein we have access to God without artificial ceremony.

I will keep the water baptism in Jesus' name for the remission of past sins.
It was the fulfillment of the OT's circumcision of the flesh by the NT's circumcision of the heart.

That is a NT doctrine only.

Yes, He did.

I am glad to hear there are others out there who live without sinning.

That is a good simile.

Agreed.

You kind of fanned out there.
Got a point?

OK.

And Moses did.

He Himself fulfilled the presages.

OK.
We can also rejoice in the differences in the NT from the OT.
Freedom from sin, for starters.
Freedom from walking in and after the flesh.
Freedom from 400 plus rules that could not make a man righteous.
Freedom from dependence on a priest to approach God on our behalf.
Much more too.

New covenant Temple: (the body of Christ) Jn 2:19
Ark of the new covenant: (Mary) Lk 1:35
Altar: (the cross) heb 13:10
New covenant Sacrifice: (the eternal propitiatory sacrifice of Christ)
Acts 20:28 Eph 2:13 heb 9
heb 10:19
Priesthood: (the new covenant priesthood of Christ) heb 7:17
High priest: (Christ is high priest) heb 8:1
Low priests (the order of melchisedec) heb 7:17
Golden censor with incense: rev 8:3


Verses about an altar before God in heaven!
Rev 6:9 8:3 9:13 11:1 14:18 16:7


Malachi 1:11

For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.

A pure offering:
A Clean oblation:
An Unbloody sacrifice:

 

[donadams]

Ministerial priesthood: “apostles & their successors, and those they ordain” (low priests)
With priestly ministry:

Mk 3:14 “ordained”
Jn 15:16 “chosen” “ordained”
Jn 20:21 “sent by Christ with His authority”
Jn 20:23 “power to forgive sins”
Acts 1:8 “anointing with power”
acts 1:15-26 “ministry / bishop”
Acts 2:38-39 “administered sacraments”
acts 14:23 “ordained”
Acts 16:4 “ordained “
Rom 15:16 “minister / sanctify”
1 cor 9:14 “ordained”
1 Tim 2:7 “ordained”
1 Tim 3:1-2 “bishop”
1 Tim 4:14 “priest” “priestly ministry”
Phil 1:1 “bishops deacons”
James 5:14 “anointing with oil”

The ministerial priesthood acts in “the person of Christ” so it is Christ who acts thru them vicariously.
2 cor 2:10 Jn 15:5 eph 5:24


Royal priesthood: “baptized members of Jesus Christ”
1 pet 2:5-9

 

[donadams]

He did it Himself.

And he is eternal priest heb 7:17
The office of a priest is to offer sacrifice
The sacrifice of Christ is eternally offered to the father by Christ thru the spirit

The apostles must also offer the sacrifice
They are in His ministerial priesthood!

Malachi 1:11

For from the rising of the sun even unto the going down of the same my name shall be great among the Gentiles; and in every place incense shall be offered unto my name, and a pure offering: for my name shall be great among the heathen, saith the Lord of hosts.

the royal priesthood the people must offer the sacrifice of praise!

Heb 13:15 By him therefore let us offer the sacrifice of praise to God continually, that is, the fruit of our lips giving thanks to his name.

Thanks