The New Human

[netchaplain]

Presently, the Lord Jesus is the sole Human without sin, but soon “when He shall appear,” the believers “shall be like Him,” because they “shall see Him as He is” (1Jhn 3:2). “Like Him” in being “without sin,” for sin was imputed to Him when He first appeared in the humiliation of His earthly life (2Cor 5:21). But as “He shall appear the second time without sin unto salvation” (Heb 9:28), so shall we also be “without sin” when we “see Him.”

This is said to be “unto salvation,” e.g. the full application of “salvation” being completed by “the redemption of our body” (Rom 8:23), for believers are presently completely redeemed in their spirit but not yet in their body which will be “changed” (1Cor 15:51, 52) into a “spiritual body” (1Cor 15:44), “that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body” (Phl 3:21). The Lord’s spiritual body is a new type of physical body (which we will have) wherein its “flesh and bone” (Luk 24:39) is incorruptible, unlike our present corruptible natural body.

The Resurrection is all about the bodies of the saints, for our spirits have been resurrected, in which Christ which will bring about the new human race (“the body, the church”), wherein the Lord Jesus “is the Head” for He has “the preeminence” (Col 1:18), and shall “present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish” (Eph 5:27). These are those who are “found of Him in peace, without spot, and blameless” (2Pet 3:14), whose “mortal bodies” shall be “quickened” by “the Spirit of Him (Father) that raised up Jesus from the dead” (Rom 8:11).

In this life the spirits of the believers are as redeemed as they will ever be. Their spirits will not be any more “regenerated” (Mat 19:28) than they are now. But in the completion during “the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory,” their bodies will finally be regenerated, along with a New Heaven and Earth (Isa 65:17; 66:22; Act 3:21; 2Pe 3:13; 2Pet 3:13; Rev 21:1, 5).

Then will the purpose of creation and creature come to pass, which is Christ being “glorified in His saints” (2Thess 1:10), and the unbelievers departing “into everlasting fire” (Mat 25:41), who will go “away into everlasting punishment” (Mat 25:46), being “punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power” (2Thes 1:9).

-NC

 

[Jim Parker]

There is another way in which believers are "like Him."

When the Word was made incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, He (Jesus) was (and continues to be) a unique kind of human being in whom dwells "all the fullness of the Godhead bodily." (Col 2:9)

And Jesus is the firstborn of many brothers. (Rom 8:29) That refers to all believers in whom the Holy Spirit, (Jhn 14:17) the Father and the Son dwell. (Jhn 17:23 NKJV)

Jesus is at once wholly God and wholly man. He is the presence of of God incarnate. Believers bear the Trinity within. We are God-bearing men and women who bear the presence of God within us.

Jesus was the first of a new race of beings; God-bearers. We are like Him from the moment of regeneration and receiving the Holy Spirit. We are on a path toward "the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ" (Eph 4:13 NKJV) and be "conformed to the image of His Son". (Ro 8:29 NKJV)

iakov the fool

 

[Roro1972]

The new body will have flesh and bone but no blood????? is this correct

 

[netchaplain]

There is another way in which believers are "like Him."

When the Word was made incarnate of the Holy Spirit and the Virgin Mary, He (Jesus) was (and continues to be) a unique kind of human being in whom dwells "all the fullness of the Godhead bodily." (Col 2:9)

And Jesus is the firstborn of many brothers. (Rom 8:29) That refers to all believers in whom the Holy Spirit, (Jhn 14:17) the Father and the Son dwell. (Jhn 17:23 NKJV)

Jesus is at once wholly God and wholly man. He is the presence of of God incarnate. Believers bear the Trinity within. We are God-bearing men and women who bear the presence of God within us.

Jesus was the first of a new race of beings; God-bearers. We are like Him from the moment of regeneration and receiving the Holy Spirit. We are on a path toward "the measure of the stature of the fullness of Christ" (Eph 4:13 NKJV) and be "conformed to the image of His Son". (Ro 8:29 NKJV)

iakov the fool

Hi JP - Thanks for your reply and I agree, this is one of many ways we are "like Him." I find it exciting that we will be "like Him" in our new body, which will be an incorruptible physicality (spiritual body), like His new body. We will remain, as you've indicated, both spirit and body like Him.

God bless!

 

[netchaplain]

The new body will have flesh and bone but no blood????? is this correct

Hi Roro - Appreciate the input, and that's a thought I had, but since there is no reference to the blood in this passage, I have concluded that there is no indication to exclude blood, since the body will be spiritual and not natural.

 

[Obadiah]

Hi Roro - Appreciate the input, and that's a thought I had, but since there is no reference to the blood in this passage, I have concluded that there is no indication to exclude blood, since the body will be spiritual and not natural.

Which passage?

This is a good thread for A&T, but please lets remember in an A&T debate we have to keep everything clear so that even a first time reader only reading this one post would know which passage you are talking about. Even just a quick chapter and verse reference is great, it doesn't have to be a full quote of the passage. This is what the guideline about citing scripture is talking about.

 

[netchaplain]

Which passage?

This is a good thread for A&T, but please lets remember in an A&T debate we have to keep everything clear so that even a first time reader only reading this one post would know which passage you are talking about. Even just a quick chapter and verse reference is great, it doesn't have to be a full quote of the passage. This is what the guideline about citing scripture is talking about.

Yes, I see now and thanks much for the clarification. Including the passage location (Luke 24:39) will make it easier to understand to pursue the post without having to go back to the post that includes it.

Thanks again Brother!

 

[Jim Parker]

The new body will have flesh and bone but no blood????? is this correct

I have not heard that before. I don't know.

iakov the fool

 

[Roro1972]

Hi Roro - Appreciate the input, and that's a thought I had, but since there is no reference to the blood in this passage, I have concluded that there is no indication to exclude blood, since the body will be spiritual and not natural.

I may just completely mis understand. I always thought a spirit body had no flesh, no bone and no blood and did not feed on meat and vegetables as humans do.

 

[Jim Parker]

I may just completely mis understand. I always thought a spirit body had no flesh, no bone and no blood and did not feed on meat and vegetables as humans do.

1Jo 3:2 (NKJV) Beloved, now we are children of God; and it has not yet been revealed what we shall be, but we know that when He is revealed, we shall be like Him, for we shall see Him as He is.
What was Jesus' resurrected body like?

Luke 24:36-43 Now as they said these things, Jesus Himself stood in the midst of them, and said to them, “Peace to you.” But they were terrified and frightened, and supposed they had seen a spirit.
And He said to them, “Why are you troubled? And why do doubts arise in your hearts? Behold My hands and My feet, that it is I Myself. Handle Me and see, for a spirit does not have flesh and bones as you see I have.” When He had said this, He showed them His hands and His feet.
But while they still did not believe for joy, and marveled, He said to them, “Have you any food here?” So they gave Him a piece of a broiled fish and some honeycomb. And He took it and ate in their presence.

And 1Co 15:42-44; 51-53 (NKJV) So also is the resurrection of the dead. The body is sown in corruption, it is raised in incorruption. It is sown in dishonor, it is raised in glory. It is sown in weakness, it is raised in power. It is sown a natural body, it is raised a spiritual body. There is a natural body, and there is a spiritual body.

Behold, I tell you a mystery: We shall not all sleep, but we shall all be changed—in a moment, in the twinkling of an eye, at the last trumpet. For the trumpet will sound, and the dead will be raised incorruptible, and we shall be changed. For this corruptible must put on incorruption, and this mortal must put on immortality.

And that's how we will be like Jesus with a "spiritual" body which has its life in the spirit rather than in the blood.
Or. at least, that's my take.

iakov the fool

 

[netchaplain]

I may just completely mis understand. I always thought a spirit body had no flesh, no bone and no blood and did not feed on meat and vegetables as humans do.

Yes, it's common thought that "spiritual body" (1Cor 15:44) intends spirit only, but the spiritual body which we will have is a physicality that cannot be corrupted nor destroyed. When the body it will have the word "body" mentioned, but if not it will only say "spirit."

 

[Roro1972]

We will have a spiritual body Luke 24:39 says flesh and bone no blood the spirit will be what gives us life. 1 Cor 15:50 is confusing in regards to Luke 24:39.
unlike the human body where the blood is the life of all flesh Lev 17:14.
So that Angels Heb 1:14 are spirit
still need help sorting this out

 

[netchaplain]

no blood the spirit will be what gives us life

That's pretty good incite, if we need to be technically correct. Myself, I usually use an inferred concept when relating to non-vital issues concerning subjects not directly addressed by Scripture.

As I previously mentioned (#5) my understanding with this one is that I see no reason why the natural blood, along with the natural body (flesh, bone and etc.) wouldn't be still be included, but I see no problem with assuming there may not be blood involved, which I wouldn't think would conflict with the Spirit continuing the life of Christ in us (Col 3:4).

 

[cgaviria]

Presently, the Lord Jesus is the sole Human without sin, but soon “when He shall appear,” the believers “shall be like Him,” because they “shall see Him as He is” (1Jhn 3:2). “Like Him” in being “without sin,” for sin was imputed to Him when He first appeared in the humiliation of His earthly life (2Cor 5:21). But as “He shall appear the second time without sin unto salvation” (Heb 9:28), so shall we also be “without sin” when we “see Him.”

This is said to be “unto salvation,” e.g. the full application of “salvation” being completed by “the redemption of our body” (Rom 8:23), for believers are presently completely redeemed in their spirit but not yet in their body which will be “changed” (1Cor 15:51, 52) into a “spiritual body” (1Cor 15:44), “that it may be fashioned like unto His glorious body” (Phl 3:21). The Lord’s spiritual body is a new type of physical body (which we will have) wherein its “flesh and bone” (Luk 24:39) is incorruptible, unlike our present corruptible natural body.

The Resurrection is all about the bodies of the saints, for our spirits have been resurrected, in which Christ which will bring about the new human race (“the body, the church”), wherein the Lord Jesus “is the Head” for He has “the preeminence” (Col 1:18), and shall “present it to Himself a glorious church, not having spot, or wrinkle, or any such thing; but that it should be holy and without blemish” (Eph 5:27). These are those who are “found of Him in peace, without spot, and blameless” (2Pet 3:14), whose “mortal bodies” shall be “quickened” by “the Spirit of Him (Father) that raised up Jesus from the dead” (Rom 8:11).

In this life the spirits of the believers are as redeemed as they will ever be. Their spirits will not be any more “regenerated” (Mat 19:28) than they are now. But in the completion during “the regeneration when the Son of man shall sit in the throne of His glory,” their bodies will finally be regenerated, along with a New Heaven and Earth (Isa 65:17; 66:22; Act 3:21; 2Pe 3:13; 2Pet 3:13; Rev 21:1, 5).

Then will the purpose of creation and creature come to pass, which is Christ being “glorified in His saints” (2Thess 1:10), and the unbelievers departing “into everlasting fire” (Mat 25:41), who will go “away into everlasting punishment” (Mat 25:46), being “punished with everlasting destruction from the presence of the Lord, and from the glory of His power” (2Thes 1:9).

-NC

You are decorrelating certain matters, and the first is, "we shall see him as he is". This means that we will see him glorified, because no one has yet seen the new glory of Jesus. When Jesus was seen by many before he ascended, he had not yet been glorified. His glory will be seen when he finally descends on the earth, and this is when he will gather his elect, from the four winds, even from hades, and bring the elect to himself, to meet him in the air. It is then that the elect, "we see him as he is", with his new glory, but this is not related to us being without sin then. Now, you will probably ask why, this is why....

Because inner perfection to not sin anymore starts now, way before even seeing Jesus Christ. Inner perfection and sanctification is absolutely necessary now, and it is only possible by truly receiving holy spirit. If you are still sinning, you haven't really received holy spirit. Here are the scriptures proving this,

No one who is born of God will continue to sin, because God’s seed remains in them; they cannot go on sinning, because they have been born of God. (1 John 3:9 [NIV])

that the ordinance of the law should be fulfilled in us, to the ones not walking according to flesh, but according to spirit. (Romans 8:4 [ABP])

[26] And I will put in you a new heart, and I will put a new spirit in you, and I will remove the stone heart from your flesh, and I will give to you a heart of flesh. [27] And I will put my spirit in you, and I shall make it that you shall go by my ordinances, and you shall keep my judgments, and you shall observe them.(Ezekiel 36:26-27 [ABP])

For by one offering he has perfected in perpetuity the ones having been sanctified. (Hebrews 10:14 [ABP])

Seventy periods of seven were rendered concise upon your people, and upon the holy city, to finish off sin, and to set a seal upon sins, and to wipe out the lawless deeds, and to atone for iniquities, and to bring eternal righteousness, and to set a seal upon vision and prophecy, and to anoint the holy of holies. (Daniel 9:24 [ABP])

The whole point behind the death of Jesus Christ was not just to atone for sins, but to bring an end to sin. How is this possible? By being baptized in holy spirit. Notice the prohecy in Ezekiel, it says I will "put in you a new heart" and "I will remove the stone heart". The heart is where the desires and intentions are, so when God says, I will remove your old heart, he is in fact he will remove your evil desires, which are the root of sin. So if you had a desire to steal, you will no longer want to steal. If you wanted to commit sexual sin, you will no longer want to commit sexual sin. You will be freed from your corrupt nature that you were born with that was causing you to sin all along, which is why Paul then says, "we who no longer walk in the flesh, but in spirit". Now, just because one never sins again when one receives holy spirit, does not mean that one never sinned before, as only Jesus Christ is the only one that has never sinned, this is why in another passage we read,

If we should say that we do not have sin, we mislead ourselves, and the truth is not in us. (I John 1:8 [ABP])

We have all sinned, and there is nothing in us that is able to fully follow after God, which is why we need holy spirit, to be able to walk perfectly straight before God and thus sin no more. Unless you truly receive holy spirit and receive its true sanctification, you do not yet belong to God, as it is said here,

You, however, are not in the realm of the flesh but are in the realm of the Spirit, if indeed the Spirit of God lives in you. And if anyone does not have the Spirit of Christ, they do not belong to Christ. (Romans 8:9 [NIV])

If you have not yet received holy spirit, then it behooves you to ask why you haven't received it yet. Surely there is something stopping God from giving it you.

 

[Roro1972]

curious how does 1 Peter 5:10 fit in im sure some have trouble after being saved. I think Paul had trouble.
I understand we are to strive to not sin.

 

[netchaplain]

You are decorrelating certain matters

Hi Cgaviria - Thanks for your input, and before I can reply to your reply and comments, I would need to be more clear of what is being mistaken. Thanks and God bless!

 

[Jim Parker]

no one has yet seen the new glory of Jesus

Peter, James and John saw it on mount Tabor. (Mat 17:1-2) The "glory of Jesus" is the "glory of God" (Jhn 17:5) and it is the same yesterday, today, and forever.(Heb 13:8)

Because inner perfection to not sin anymore starts now, way before even seeing Jesus Christ. Inner perfection and sanctification is absolutely necessary now, and it is only possible by truly receiving holy spirit. If you are still sinning, you haven't really received holy spirit. Here are the scriptures proving this,

If you think that you are no longer sinning, you are deceived.( 1Jo 1:8)

 

[cgaviria]

Peter, James and John saw it on mount Tabor. (Mat 17:1-2) The "glory of Jesus" is the "glory of God" (Jhn 17:5) and it is the same yesterday, today, and forever.(Heb 13:8)

If you think that you are no longer sinning, you are deceived.( 1Jo 1:8)

What Peter, James,and John saw was a vision, hence

And as they were coming down the mountain, Jesus commanded them, “Tell no one the vision, until the Son of Man is raised from the dead.” (Matthew 17:9 [ESV])

Jesus has not been glorified, hence,

By this he meant the Spirit, whom those who believed in him were later to receive. Up to that time the Spirit had not been given, since Jesus had not yet been glorified. (John 7:39 [NIV])

To be glorified means to radiate light, hence why this scripture,

Then the righteous will shine like the sun in the kingdom of their Father. Whoever has ears, let them hear. (Matthew 13:43 [NIV])

Which coincides with this saying,

Dear friends, now we are children of God, and what we will be has not yet been made known. But we know that when Christ appears, we shall be like him, for we shall see him as he is. (1 John 3:2 [NIV])

We shall be like him because all believers will also be glorified as he was glorified, radiating light. When Jesus ascended to the Father, then his new body began to radiate light, and thus be glorified. This glorification is similar to the glorification he had when he spoke the world into existence. His glorification at that time began when he spoke and said, "let there be light", and then he himself began radiating that light, and thus fulfill this saying,

And now, Father, glorify me in your presence with the glory I had with you before the world began.(John 17:5 [NIV])

And he then literally became the light of the world, as the luminaries in the heavens had not been created by him yet until day 4 to give off their own light,

When Jesus spoke again to the people, he said, "I am the light of the world. Whoever follows me will never walk in darkness, but will have the light of life." (John 8:12 [NIV])

Its beautiful when you understand this.

 

[Jim Parker]

What Peter, James,and John saw was a vision, hence

Where doe the scripture say that?
My sola scriptura says "And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his garments became white as light." (Mat 17:2 RSV) There is nothing to indicate that it was a vision. It says they saw Jesus transfigured, not a "vision."

To be glorified means to radiate light, hence why this scripture,

That's what they saw: "his face shone like the sun."(Mat 17:2 RSV) That's radiating light.

When Jesus ascended to the Father, then his new body began to radiate light, and thus be glorified.

Where in the scriptures does it say Jesus began to radiate light when He ascended?
I see "And when he had said this, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight." (Acts 1:9 RSV)

his glorification is similar to the glorification he had when he spoke the world into existence. His glorification at that time began when he spoke and said, "let there be light", and then he himself began radiating that light, and thus fulfill this saying,

Your post looks like you're just making this up as you go along.
You just said that He wasn't glorified before his ascension and that he was glorified at the creation. So which is it?

 

[cgaviria]

Where doe the scripture say that?
My sola scriptura says "And he was transfigured before them, and his face shone like the sun, and his garments became white as light." (Mat 17:2 RSV) There is nothing to indicate that it was a vision. It says they saw Jesus transfigured, not a "vision."

That's what they saw: "his face shone like the sun, and his garments became white as light."(Mat 17:2 RSV)

Where in the scriptures does it say Jesus began to radiate light when He ascended?
I see "And when he had said this, as they were looking on, he was lifted up, and a cloud took him out of their sight." (Acts 1:9 RSV)

You're just making this up as you go along, aren't you?
You just said that He wasn't glorified before his ascension and that he was glorified at the creation. So which is it?

It was indeed a vision, take a look for yourself in this interlinear,

http://biblehub.com/interlinear/matthew/17-9.htm

This translation I gave you is from the ESV. Very standard translation.

To be glorified means to radiate light. Already provided scriptures, no need to be redundant. Scroll up.

I am not making this up, I am well studied in scripture.