Hey Barbarian, there are a few questions waiting for an answer:
Post 57 We have strayed from the point – largely because you have no hope of ever answering it.
You were kinda upset to learn how easily those questions were answered; there's no point in pretending they weren't explained to you.
You are postulating this foolish idea that acquired characteristics can be inherited.
You're confusing natural selection with Lamarckism, again. I don't know how to make it any simpler for you.
If a given reptile learns how to fly, then its descendants CANNOT receive that information, nor can it transmit the information to any of its own descendants.
As you learned, the small feathered theropod dinosaurs already had the structures and behaviors necessary to fly. They (like ostriches today) use wings to control movement when running and to provide lift. A very small dinosaur like Archaeopteryx (and if you like I can show you again, why Archy has more dinosaur characteristics than avian ones) could fly. And did.
If the flying reptile really can fly, then it had somehow acquired the necessary instincts to do so.
As you learned, every time we find out how an "instinct" works, it turns out to be natural and heritable. No point in denying that, either.
Reminds me of an old "Tumbleweeds" comic strip. Col. Fluster is negotiating with the chief to end hostilitis:
Fluster: Give me one good reason why you shouldn't surrender.
Chief: We're winning.
Fluster: Give me another reason.
Chief: You're losing.
Excuse me, but this is not intended to be an intelligence test.
I don't think you're dumb. You're just profoundly ignorant about science in general and biology in particular.
The question is: how did birds obtain flight instincts from reptiles?
Anatomy and nervous systems are heritable. I thought you knew. As you learned, everything needed for flight, except very small size was already present in the feathered theropods. Not surprisingly, we see a very small dinosaur preceded birds in flight.
Your answer is: the reptiles had those instincts already.
No. My answer is that the structures and behaviors necessary for flight were already present in small theropod dinosaurs.
You pretty much put all your effort into arguing against the things you wish I had said, instead of the evidence I show you.
Which is, of course, pure nonsense
Well, I think you'd be more effective if you dealt with the evidence, instead of inventing ideas you want me to believe.
and a total failure to answer the simple question, because feathered reptiles can't fly.
Surprise.
Question: where did the first flying reptile obtain the flight instincts?
Evolved from running behavior. Even non-feathered bipeds move their upper limbs for balance while running. Feathered limbs (which evolved for warmth and display) increase the effectiveness, and provide lift that makes running more efficient. So those things were selected for.
Barbarian chuckles:
I showed you that they had the feathered wings, and they already used them for control while running. You denied that any running animal could do that, and I showed youi that ostriches do that today. (and btw, ostrich wings also provide lift).
And so, you expect running ostriches to be able to fly at some point in the future.
Nope. Too big. Scaling up, the lift increases by the square of the size, but the load increases by the cube of the size. So there's a limit on how big a flyer can get.
No, it's just another goofy idea you dreamed up and want me to claim as my own. Your argument seems to depend on tactics like that.
Indeed.
Identifiable ostriches date back to the Eocene. That's between 34-54 million years ago. They are still here today, and they still can't fly.
Yep. For reasons you just learned. Surprise.
Barbarian observes:
As you learned, the "instincts" were already there, and being used for other purposes. They used wings for lift and control while running, long before they used the same structures and motions for flight.
See above.
Note that he has put "instincts" in quote marks - indicating that he doesn't think they exist.
As you learned, "instinct" just means "we don't know how it works." Several things you identified as "instinct" turned out to be chemical reactions.
Of course, we all can see differently, because as I said, bird (and bat and insect and pterosaur) flight is a complex, unlearned, innate, inherited, automatic skill. An instinct in other words.
Surprise.
A bird needs to know (for example)
1 How to flap its wings
Present in feathered theropods.
Present in feathered theropods.
3 How to use its tail feathers
In order to do that, a bird needs a pygostyle, that little bulgy thing you see on the rear end of a cooked turkey. Early birds, like most of the Confuciusornithidae lacked them. Instead, they occupied the same flight characteristics seen in the early pterosaurs like Rhamphorhynchus. They had long, relatively immobile tail feathers that were like the tail of a kite. They make flight inherently stable, but not very agile. The pygostyle made flight inherently unstable, but very agile. Think of the difference between a sailplane and a modern fighter aircraft.
Surprise.
How to navigate when several hundred or thousand feet above ground
Most likely the earliest birds didn't fly that high, but it turns out that aerodynamics are pretty much the same up there as they are at treetop level.
As you just learned, the earliest birds didn't have a lot of manuverabilty, but it doesn't take a lot of work to stall.
How to slow down controllably
Already present in feathered theropods.
How to avoid mid-air stalling
We see that in fledgling, which have a lot of trouble learning how to avoid that. Some never make it. But most of them learn.
How to take off and land safely on/from water or branches
Turns out that it works pretty much like taking off from everything else.
How to use its hallux to avoid falling off those branches
Archaeopteryx did fine without a reversed hallux. Some birds today perch just fine without a reversed hallux.
How to catch its prey when in flight
Pretty much like when running, but it seems unlikely that it did, given that the first birds were not very agile flyers.
How to produce 10 different types of feather
Pretty much the way you learn to produce dozens of kinds of WBCs. But as you learned, only assymetrical flight feathers evolved after dinosaurs took to the air.
how to maintain a given body temperature
As you learned, the small feathered dinosaurs were already endotherms.
How to produce a one way respiratory system from the bellows system used by reptiles
As you learned, avian lungs were already present in theropod dinosaurs.
How to breathe without a diaphragm
See above. Respiratory sacs were found in dinosaurs, so that already happened.
How to produce feathers with all the vanes, hooks barbs and barbules from reptilian scales
I showed you that they evolved from scutes. Would you like to see the evidence, again?
How to navigate accurately over distances of 3000 to 25,000 miles, and in some cases arrive on the same date at the destination
The evidence shows dinosaurs were already migrating.
I could go on, but that's good for starters.
If you want to challenge any of those, I'd be pleased to show you some details. Shotgunning won't help you. Focus on one of those and we'll show you how it works.
