The Origin of Nursery Rhymes

[HeIsRisen2018]

I thought that this was rather interesting. I also thought of the virgin Mary and baby Jesus and the song Mary Had A Little Lamb had a double meaning.

The Shocking, Twisted Stories Behind Your Favorite Nursery Rhymes

The Shocking, Twisted Stories Behind Your Favorite Nursery Rhymes

www.huffpost.com

 

[Luminous_Rose]

Yes, nursery rhymes are pretty dark. Definitely won't see parents reading the original versions to their children.

Reminds me of fairy tales that are rather dark, too. The Brothers Grimm Fairytales are good examples of this. The Pied Piper kidnapped children for revenge, Cinderella's/Aschenputtel's (Ash-fool) evil step sisters had cut off parts of their feet to make the slippers fit, Hansel and Gretel pushed the witch into the oven, Rapunzel is left pregnant and alone and her prince blinded by a fall into thorns, Little Red Riding Hood let the wolf eat dear old grandma and saves herself, Sleeping Beauty gives birth to twins as she sleeps, Snow White's mother wanted her heart/lungs/liver, etc. The versions of course vary, but they weren't always so innocent to begin with, similar to nursery rhymes.

Personally, I think Mary, Mary, Quite Contrary is the most disturbing. Ring Around the Rosie gives me chills, too.

The theory is that the authors of Grimm Fairytales, Jacob and Wilhelm Grimm, were writing stories with certain morals to be passed from one generation to the next as a sort of cultural identity. Many nursery rhymes might have gone for rhat goal, too, but many seem to be political in some way. A lot of darkness in these stories.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

I just finished reading the article and although I don't understand all of those dark meanings, I definitely get what you're saying.

 

[Anto9us2]

When Mary had a little lamb, the doctors were surprised
But when Old MacDonald had a FARM, the doctors nearly died

 

[Luminous_Rose]

When Mary had a little lamb, the doctors were surprised
But when Old MacDonald had a FARM, the doctors nearly died

Haha! So funny xD think I will use this later!

 

[Luminous_Rose]

I just finished reading the article and although I don't understand all of those dark meanings, I definitely get what you're saying.

It is super interesting to hear stories they used to tell (blunt and violence okay) children then and the stories they tell now (all fluffy bunnies and rainbows).

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

When Mary had a little lamb, the doctors were surprised
But when Old MacDonald had a FARM, the doctors nearly died

Especially since he was a man. *sings* "Dude looks like a lady!!"

 

[OzSpen]

I thought that this was rather interesting. I also thought of the virgin Mary and baby Jesus and the song Mary Had A Little Lamb had a double meaning.

The Shocking, Twisted Stories Behind Your Favorite Nursery Rhymes

The Shocking, Twisted Stories Behind Your Favorite Nursery Rhymes

www.huffpost.com

HIR,

How would you determine if the virgin Mary and the baby Jesus is a true historical narrative or a fairytale?

Oz

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

HIR,

How would you determine if the virgin Mary and the baby Jesus is a true historical narrative or a fairytale?

Oz

Well it was proved that there actually was a man named Jesus who was born, lived, and died. Whether or not He rose again, was the Son of God, and performed miracles is all based on faith.

 

[OzSpen]

Well it was proved that there actually was a man named Jesus who was born, lived, and died. Whether or not He rose again, was the Son of God, and performed miracles is all based on faith.

Have you ever tried telling it that way to a secular person who has doubts about or rejects the virgin birth? You should have plenty of opportunities as we approach Christmas.

So, do you say Jesus' resurrection, the deity of God's Son, and that Jesus performance of miracles are not based on facts?

What do you mean by 'all based on faith'?

Oz

 

[Christ_empowered]

i was a weird kid, so...

i grew up reading Greek myths (simplified and partially sanitized, for the kiddies) and then, one day...

one of my parents' co-workers randomly gave them a dusty, old(ish) volume of Russian Fairy Tales. and...

man oh man. I was fascinated! baba yaga, vampires, the Russian (read: dark, depressing) versions of Snow White, Cinderella, etc...

later on, I read the more accessible Jungian material, Joseph Campbell, etc., and...yeah. not the most Christ-centered stuff ever, but....

interestingly enough, there's some overlap between later forms of paganism (Mystery Cults) and the themes of Christianity, with the big difference of course being that Christianity is...true. CS Lewis writes something, somewhere, to the effect that God gave (some) pagans "...good dreams...," a sort of palatable (to them) taste of what was to come.

I do.not.recommend Russian fairy tales for children, btw. depressing tales for kids continued on, though...when I was 7(ish), my dad gave me an illustrated book of children's stories by Oscar Wilde. What could possibly go wrong? oh man...some of those stories made me cry as a kid.

 

[daninthelionsden]

i was a weird kid, so...

i grew up reading Greek myths (simplified and partially sanitized, for the kiddies) and then, one day...

one of my parents' co-workers randomly gave them a dusty, old(ish) volume of Russian Fairy Tales. and...

man oh man. I was fascinated! baba yaga, vampires, the Russian (read: dark, depressing) versions of Snow White, Cinderella, etc...

later on, I read the more accessible Jungian material, Joseph Campbell, etc., and...yeah. not the most Christ-centered stuff ever, but....

interestingly enough, there's some overlap between later forms of paganism (Mystery Cults) and the themes of Christianity, with the big difference of course being that Christianity is...true. CS Lewis writes something, somewhere, to the effect that God gave (some) pagans "...good dreams...," a sort of palatable (to them) taste of what was to come.

I do.not.recommend Russian fairy tales for children, btw. depressing tales for kids continued on, though...when I was 7(ish), my dad gave me an illustrated book of children's stories by Oscar Wilde. What could possibly go wrong? oh man...some of those stories made me cry as a kid.

When I was a kid I was even afraid of Mr. GrandFather Clock on Captain Kangaroo.

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Have you ever tried telling it that way to a secular person who has doubts about or rejects the virgin birth? You should have plenty of opportunities as we approach Christmas.

So, do you say Jesus' resurrection, the deity of God's Son, and that Jesus performance of miracles are not based on facts?

What do you mean by 'all based on faith'?

Oz

I do believe that we're getting off subject but as far as to my knowledge nobody can actually prove that Jesus is and was who He said He was. That all comes down to what you believe. However, I don't think that our faith is supposed to based upon facts. Especially according to this Bible verse. John 20:29

 

[Boaz]

Especially since he was a man. *sings* "Dude looks like a lady!!"

You have kind of genius sense of humor!

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

You have kind of genius sense of humor!

 

[for_his_glory]

When I was a kid I was even afraid of Mr. GrandFather Clock on Captain Kangaroo.

Ya, that clock was a little creepy.

 

[for_his_glory]

Rock-a-bye baby on the tree top, when the wind blows the cradle will rock. If the bough breaks the cradle will fall, down will come baby cradle and all.

Really!!!!!!!!!!!! How frightening is this song to sing to a baby.

There you go HeIsRisen2018 as I know that song is now stuck in your head, your welcomed

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

Ya, that clock was a little creepy.

Yeah, I see what you mean as I just looked him up. I have a feeling that he would have given me nightmares if I would have watched him back when I was a child. He's sort of cute a little bit too though. :tongue

Rock-a-bye baby on the tree top, when the wind blows the cradle will rock. If the bough breaks the cradle will fall, down will come baby cradle and all.

Really!!!!!!!!!!!! How frightening is this song to sing to a baby.

There you go HeIsRisen2018 as I know that song is now stuck in your head, your welcomed

Yeah, I thought that was always creepy as well and apparently so did this guy.

 

[OzSpen]

I do believe that we're getting off subject but as far as to my knowledge nobody can actually prove that Jesus is and was who He said He was. That all comes down to what you believe. However, I don't think that our faith is supposed to based upon facts. Especially according to this Bible verse. John 20:29

HIR,

When we discuss the origin of nursery rhymes, we use the same discipline we use to test the claims of Jesus Christ in the Bible - historical science.

Christianity is an historical religion and the Scriptures need to be tested according to the principles of historical investigation to determine if the Bible is reliable.

This harmonises with the definition of faith in Hebrews 11:1 (HCSB), 'Now faith is the reality of what is hoped for, the proof of what is not seen'.

I consider it is necessary to demonstrate our faith is founded on fact and John 20:29 doesn't refute that. Faith is not a leap of faith but a demonstration of the reality that is hoped for, with 'proof' of what is not seen.

It is faith with foundation in facts. The Christian revelation, recorded in the Scriptures, happened in time in a secular world. When God came to earth in the Incarnation and after the Resurrection,

​

After he had suffered, he also presented himself alive to them by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God (Acts 1:3 ESV).​

You cited John 20:29. If you read this verse in the context of 20:24-29, just prior to John providing the purpose for his book in v. 29, doubting Thomas wouldn't believe the other disciples' testimonies of the resurrected Christ.

What did Jesus say to Thomas? 'Just believe'. No, he provided objective, current proof of his resurrection after 3 days. Thomas wouldn't believe until the facts were exposed - put his finger into Jesus' nailprints and thrust his hand into Jesus' wound in his side.

Did Jesus say, 'You doubter. Get away from me'. No, he provided him with the practical and historical evidence Thomas required.

Acts 17 and Paul's witness on the Areopagus demonstrate Paul's evangelistic strategy of providing evidence in proclamation of the Gospel. His was not a call to faith without facts.

Oz

 

[HeIsRisen2018]

HIR,

When we discuss the origin of nursery rhymes, we use the same discipline we use to test the claims of Jesus Christ in the Bible - historical science.

Christianity is an historical religion and the Scriptures need to be tested according to the principles of historical investigation to determine if the Bible is reliable.

This harmonises with the definition of faith in Hebrews 11:1 (HCSB), 'Now faith is the reality of what is hoped for, the proof of what is not seen'.

I consider it is necessary to demonstrate our faith is founded on fact and John 20:29 doesn't refute that. Faith is not a leap of faith but a demonstration of the reality that is hoped for, with 'proof' of what is not seen.

It is faith with foundation in facts. The Christian revelation, recorded in the Scriptures, happened in time in a secular world. When God came to earth in the Incarnation and after the Resurrection,

​

After he had suffered, he also presented himself alive to them by many convincing proofs, appearing to them over a period of forty days and speaking about the kingdom of God (Acts 1:3 ESV).​

You cited John 20:29. If you read this verse in the context of 20:24-29, just prior to John providing the purpose for his book in v. 29, doubting Thomas wouldn't believe the other disciples' testimonies of the resurrected Christ.

What did Jesus say to Thomas? 'Just believe'. No, he provided objective, current proof of his resurrection after 3 days. Thomas wouldn't believe until the facts were exposed - put his finger into Jesus' nailprints and thrust his hand into Jesus' wound in his side.

Did Jesus say, 'You doubter. Get away from me'. No, he provided him with the practical and historical evidence Thomas required.

Acts 17 and Paul's witness on the Areopagus demonstrate Paul's evangelistic strategy of providing evidence in proclamation of the Gospel. His was not a call to faith without facts.

Oz

I don't completely understand what you're saying but we just don't have the kind of evidence now that they did back then so we base it all on faith, or at least I do. Now,..