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the original sin

L

littlelight

Member
Gen 3:17 (HCSB)

God tells Adam in verse 17 exactly why he was going to suffer. Adam did not suffer because he ate the fruit of the forbidden tree. Verse 17 states because Adam listened to his wife and ate the fruit. Adam listened with attention to his wife and disobeyed God. Adam had only two conversations, that we know of, about the fruit of the tree. One with God and one with Eve. Why would he pay more attention to Eve than God?

There are some who would say that Adam ate the fruit because he didn't want her to suffer alone or because he could not stand to be without her. If that were the case then God lied to us and verse 17 should read “because you loved your wife more than Me.” No, Adam did not act out of love.

Adam was in charge and not Eve. She was given the role of being a helpmate and Adam was the one in charge. Adam did not listen to his wife because she was in charge, knew more than he did or he respected her opinion. There is only one reason that Adam harkened to his wife's voice. He believed her when she said it was good for food and it would make him wise. He wanted to be like God.
It did make him wise in that he now knew good from evil. But it was not good for food. God had said that if he ate it he would surly die. Any thing that leads to ones death if they eat it is not good for food.

The original sin is not believing God. All men have committed the original sin. God has not nor will He condemn man for what Adam did. He will condemn each man because of their own disbelief.
 
I've got to run but I thought I would just throw this thought, and come back later. It was not the first Adam that was deceived. 1Tim 2:14 And Adam was not deceived, but the woman being deceived was in the transgression.

Adam choose to take his place with Eve much like the last Adam (Jesus) chose to take His place with us. 1 Cor 15:45 And so it is written, The first man Adam was made a living soul; the last Adam was made a quickening spirit.
 
Adam chose to obey his own desires rather than his Father's.

Gen 3:19 In the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread, till thou return unto the ground; for out of it wast thou taken: for dust thou art, and unto dust shalt thou return.


Jesus, the man, chose to obey the desires of his Father rather than his own.

Luk 22:44 And being in an agony he prayed more earnestly: and his sweat was as it were great drops of blood falling down to the ground.
 
Rom 5:19 (HCSB), 1 Cor 15:22 (HCSB).
Through one man's disobedience all became sinners. For as in Adam all die. Adam is always being given sole blame for the fall.

Gen 3:14 -17 (HCSB). In these verses God gives cause and effect. Verse 14God said to the Serpent “because you have done this.” God made it clear what he,the serpent, had done wrong. So why does the serpent crawl on his belly and eat dust? Just look after the because and get the answer.

In verse 17 again God makes it clear that what Adam did wrong and that was listening to his wife and giving obedience to what she said. Yes Adam was not deceived. He knew that he was going against God's orders. Adam had no excuse. So why does Adam have to work by the sweat of his brow and fight weeds? Because he stood by Eve? Where is that in scripture?
Gen 3:12 (HCSB) The woman God gave to him (Adam) was at fault. Adam was telling God she deserved punishment but leave me out of this. He didn't choose to join her. He was trying to distance himself from her. 1 Cor 15:45 in more way lends support to the claim that Adam chose to be with Eve.

In verse 16 when God is talking to Eve He does not give any cause and effect. God would be remiss if she had done something wrong and He failed to discipline her. If her being deceived was a sin He would have stated that. Heb 12: 7-8 (HCSB) God does not fail to let His children know when they have sinned. If she had sinned there would have been a cause and effect. Discipline without the cause given is not discipline. If one does not know what they have done wrong they cannot correct the wrong behavior.

About Eve sinning in Ro 5:19 we find that when Adam sinned all became sinners. And in Ro 8: 20-22 (HCSB) we read that the entire creation was subjected to futility which must have happened when sin entered the world. 1Tim 2: 13 (NKJV) So Eve fell into sin, as some versions say, at the same time as all mankind when Adam sinned. Thus her childbearing became painful, as did some beasts of the field also, and her status changed from being a helpmate to more servant like as a result of Adam's sin. But God does not lay the cause to what she did.
 
littlelight said:
Rom 5:19 (HCSB), 1 Cor 15:22 (HCSB).
Through one man's disobedience all became sinners. For as in Adam all die. Adam is always being given sole blame for the fall.

Gen 3:14 -17 (HCSB). In these verses God gives cause and effect. Verse 14God said to the Serpent “because you have done this.” God made it clear what he,the serpent, had done wrong. So why does the serpent crawl on his belly and eat dust? Just look after the because and get the answer.

In verse 17 again God makes it clear that what Adam did wrong and that was listening to his wife and giving obedience to what she said. Yes Adam was not deceived. He knew that he was going against God's orders. Adam had no excuse. So why does Adam have to work by the sweat of his brow and fight weeds? Because he stood by Eve? Where is that in scripture?
Gen 3:12 (HCSB) The woman God gave to him (Adam) was at fault. Adam was telling God she deserved punishment but leave me out of this. He didn't choose to join her. He was trying to distance himself from her. 1 Cor 15:45 in more way lends support to the claim that Adam chose to be with Eve.

In verse 16 when God is talking to Eve He does not give any cause and effect. God would be remiss if she had done something wrong and He failed to discipline her. If her being deceived was a sin He would have stated that. Heb 12: 7-8 (HCSB) God does not fail to let His children know when they have sinned. If she had sinned there would have been a cause and effect. Discipline without the cause given is not discipline. If one does not know what they have done wrong they cannot correct the wrong behavior.

About Eve sinning in Ro 5:19 we find that when Adam sinned all became sinners. And in Ro 8: 20-22 (HCSB) we read that the entire creation was subjected to futility which must have happened when sin entered the world. 1Tim 2: 13 (NKJV) So Eve fell into sin, as some versions say, at the same time as all mankind when Adam sinned. Thus her childbearing became painful, as did some beasts of the field also, and her status changed from being a helpmate to more servant like as a result of Adam's sin. But God does not lay the cause to what she did.
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I'm not sure I agree with every detail but you are correct...Eve was beguiled (persuaded, convinced, seduced) but Adam was without excuse...he heard from God directly and knew exactly the warning of consequence God had given, and then, as a lord unto himself, he disregarded God's word and did what was right in his own eyes...God clearly saw the two conditions differently in His mercy and justice
 
In Isa 41:22 (HSCB) if we reflect on past events we could know the outcome. The beginning of sin and death in man started with Adam. It started when Adam believed Eve instead of God. The original sin is not believing God. The outcome will be: sin and death will end when man believes God.

Isa 46:10 (HCSB) God declared the end from the start. Sin started in man when Adam did not believe God. God declared end of sin in man is when man believes God. Gen 15: 6 (HCSB) when Abram believed God he was declared righteous.

Isa 28: 16 – 18 (HCSB) clearly a prophecy concerning the Messiah. Verse 16 all who believe will be unshakable. Verse 18 Our covenant with death will be dissolved God has declared the end of death in man from the beginning of death in man. When man believes God he will not die.
 
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It wasn't so much that Adam disbelieved what God had told him, but it was him being beguiled by the serpent using Eve to give him to eat as now his eyes were opened to that of good and evil as he chose the enticement over that of what God warned him not to do. This is how the sin of unbelief entered into the hearts of men as man did not die physically for eating the fruit, but died Spiritually as now we have all died Spiritually needing that of a Savior.
 
Has anyone considered, and this isn't original with me, but this was all in God's plan to begin with? Thus why would Jesus be the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world, and us in Him? Rev 13:8.
 
Eugene said:
Has anyone considered, and this isn't original with me, but this was all in God's plan to begin with? Thus why would Jesus be the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world, and us in Him? Rev 13:8.
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Yep.
God knew when He prepared man in His own image with a will of his own, man would blow it. Isn't it comforting to know that He also prepared for that occurrence by "the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world." :sohappy
 
Eugene said:
Has anyone considered, and this isn't original with me, but this was all in God's plan to begin with? Thus why would Jesus be the Lamb slain before the foundation of the world, and us in Him? Rev 13:8.
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Yes I have and it is not true with God's character...this would be implying that God is the author of sin. God is omniscient and foreknew what Adam would do but that does not equal Him causing him to do it. If Adam did only as God irresistibly compelled him to do then He did God's will and thus no sin...the fall becomes GOd's fault not Adams and death came upon all men by God not Adam
 
brother Paul said:
Yes I have and it is not true with God's character...this would be implying that God is the author of sin. God is omniscient and foreknew what Adam would do but that does not equal Him causing him to do it. If Adam did only as God irresistibly compelled him to do then He did God's will and thus no sin...the fall becomes GOd's fault not Adams and death came upon all men by God not Adam
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Hi Brother Paul, I'm not suggesting God caused them to sin having given them the choice to choose, but His foreknowledge knew their very thought afar as it were and provided the means of life in Christ even before they did sin.

I've wondered at this over the years and I reckon only eternity will reveal God's want of our fellowship that would place our Savior Jesus at the cross. He desires our kinship to the extent He gave all for us. Do you think it possible that if God only wanted robotic children that He would have allowed Satan to tempt them? God chose us in Him, and to me that necessitated every step He brought us through to become one with Him.

Just my thoughts in Christ Jesus.
 
a Calvinistic bias in the views of some here. predestination to salvation, limited free will type three each, two females and one male. with two arminists disagreeing.
 
It repented God that He even created man, Genesis 6:6, because of the evil found in their heart. This stemmed from the choice Adam made to expose that of good and evil from his generation forth. I know we all have freewill as we see this in Lucifer who rebelled against God and fell from Gods grace.Satan working through the serpent to entice Eve who in turn enticed Adam and so forth down through the generations have we been enticed to disobey God by that of our own lust. Jesus was from the foundation of the world for such a time as this.
 
Ever explore the Orthodox view? It is very different from the Roman Catholic view...a worthwhile study...death is not the punishment in their view it is the lovingly warned against consequence...
 
It is my belief that Adam's original sin is that he believed Eve instead of God. As proof I cited scripture where God stated that He knew the end from the beginning Isa 46:10 and Isa 41:22. He also wrote that if we considered the former things (the beginning) we could know the end of them.


Working backward it was proven in Gen 15:6 that God declared Abraham righteous (right standing) when he believed God. Gen 3:17 Since sin began in the garden when Adam harkened to the voice of Eve it stands to reason that Adam did not believe God and that was the original sin.


As further proof in Isa 28 : 16- 18 God stated that He would lay a corner stone (Jesus) and for those that believed the covenant of death, which began with the original sin, would be canceled. Both Gen 15: 6 and Isa 28: 16-18 support that sin and death end if one believes. Since sin and death both began with Adam, then by God's statement in Isa 41:22 we can know that the original sin was unbelief.


As further proof from the New Testament Jn 3: 16 (testimony of God the Father) if one believes in Jesus they will have eternal life. In Jn 8:24 Jesus stated that they would die in their sin if they did not believe that he was the messiah. And in Jn 16: 9 the Holy Spirit convicts of the sin of not believing in Jesus. The testimony of the Father, Son and Holy Spirit agree as one.


If people do not repent of the original sin, of not believing God, they are still in sin. If we repent of unbelief and believe in Jesus we are sinless in God's eyes. (amended 630 am cst)
 
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littlelight said:
Gen 3:17 (HCSB)

God tells Adam in verse 17 exactly why he was going to suffer. Adam did not suffer because he ate the fruit of the forbidden tree. Verse 17 states because Adam listened to his wife and ate the fruit. Adam listened with attention to his wife and disobeyed God. Adam had only two conversations, that we know of, about the fruit of the tree. One with God and one with Eve. Why would he pay more attention to Eve than God?

There are some who would say that Adam ate the fruit because he didn't want her to suffer alone or because he could not stand to be without her. If that were the case then God lied to us and verse 17 should read “because you loved your wife more than Me.” No, Adam did not act out of love.

Adam was in charge and not Eve. She was given the role of being a helpmate and Adam was the one in charge. Adam did not listen to his wife because she was in charge, knew more than he did or he respected her opinion. There is only one reason that Adam harkened to his wife's voice. He believed her when she said it was good for food and it would make him wise. He wanted to be like God.
It did make him wise in that he now knew good from evil. But it was not good for food. God had said that if he ate it he would surly die. Any thing that leads to ones death if they eat it is not good for food.

The original sin is not believing God. All men have committed the original sin. God has not nor will He condemn man for what Adam did. He will condemn each man because of their own disbelief.
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Sorry pet I can't make sense of what your trying to say.
 
Moving this thread to the Apologetics and Theology forum where discussion regarding predestination, Calvinism and other subjects may be explored more fully and without Moderator interference.
 
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