THE PAGAN SOURCES OF ISLAM

[Lewis]

As Muhammad developed Islam he borrowed from the other regional religions present in the Mideast. These religions include Judaism, Christianity, Sabeanism, Zoroastrianism, and forms of paganism. Judaism is the largest contributor to Islam, followed by Christianity, then followed by the various pagan religions, and Muhammad’s mind. These pagan borrowings constitute significant facets of Islam and this article details some of these pagan contributions.

Please go to this link, and learn what you did not know.
http://www.answering-islam.org/Silas/pagansources.htm

 

[Lewis]

I am suprised that nobody has checked out that link. :o

 

[Joudie]

Heh, oh yeah--Heaven forbid a religion having pagan roots...:smt018

Religion has to develop from somewhere--why not something that already existed? Paganism's about as old as time itself. You can't expect people to turn from one way of life immediately over to another like it's nothing. You do know that some people won't even celebrate Christmas because they believe it's got pagan roots, right?

 

[Rick W]

I've always thought that if you go back far enough, to Noah let's say, then even the pagans came from that line.
So, at one time all those on the Ark "knew" God, His principles and what commandments there were. So who borrowed what from whom? I'd have to say the pagans became pagans by ignoring the teachings of their ancestors and replacing things with what they wanted using what was taught before as a basis for their "modifications".
The pagans weren't created as a separate race anyway and their ancestors "knew" God.
:smt102

 

[Relic]

I've always thought that if you go back far enough, to Noah let's say, then even the pagans came from that line.
So, at one time all those on the Ark "knew" God, His principles and what commandments there were. So who borrowed what from whom? I'd have to say the pagans became pagans by ignoring the teachings of their ancestors and replacing things with what they wanted using what was taught before as a basis for their "modifications".
The pagans weren't created as a separate race anyway and their ancestors "knew" God. :smt102

What neophyte would go so far as thinking about the "fresh start" given to the family of Noah by none other than a forgiving, redeeming, "Holy" God. Aye? 8-)

It takes an elder, a man full of wisdom and knowledge of the Holy Spirit of God's Holy Scripture to reflect on these truths.

Thanks PotLuck, much appreciate this most important "reminder" in this case. :smt023

.

 

[Relic]

Heh, oh yeah--Heaven forbid a religion having pagan roots...:smt018

Religion has to develop from somewhere--why not something that already existed? Paganism's about as old as time itself. You can't expect people to turn from one way of life immediately over to another like it's nothing. You do know that some people won't even celebrate Christmas because they believe it's got pagan roots, right?

You can't expect people to turn from one way of life immediately over to another like it's nothing.

Your statement is not true Joudie.
We can expect the miracle of the healing power of the HOLY SPIRIT.

Do you know the transforming power of the Holy Spirit which is in Christ Jesus?
It does not not force, but it convicts the heart of a man. It transforms the heart of a person by way of revealing their sins to them and showing them of His loving transforming truths, His way, the truth and the life.

I hope you aren't judging all Americans as if they are all of the same Christian sects, as if they are all the same. There are many so called Christians churches I would not dare to step into, they are sin filled churches and I'll have no part of them.

Not all of them who claim to be Christians are good examples of what is truly a Christian. But we don't go about "forcing" sinners to covert to ONE religion. Only God can convict the heart of a man and reveal His Good Holiness to them. All we can do as followers of Christ is to show them the Holy Scriptures and help lead them to knowing Christ Jesus. We can not force anyone!

One must be very careful in decerning the spirit of a man, and not think that they are all alike. It is only the Holy Spirit that reveals who is and who is not of the Holy Spirit.
And it is only the Holy Spirit that is able to transform a person. The will of a person is not up to us to force into submission. The Holy Spirit's revealing nature is the only one who can change the heart of any person. It is up to us to teach and show them the Holy word, NOT by force, but by loving guidance. If they refuse it is not ours to force them into our faith. Only God can change a "willing" heart.

Have you read the books in the New Testament? Have you read the NEW Covenant which was written well over 600 years before Mohammed wrote any of doctrines and harsh rules of his man made orders? Mohammed would not let go of paganistic ways, so then, of course he had to write his own script, one which suited him. It is only partly in line with the Holy Will of the Holy Spirit. Mohammed's own carnal spirit wrote the rest of it.


There is no sin in Christ Jesus, no carnal selfishness, nor did he practice any type of paganism. Why then did not Mohammed follow Christ Jesus? Why did he make up his own books well over 600 years after the New Testament was written, which very clearly show that Mohammed's writtings often go against the teaching of the Loving Holy Spirit of God?


Joudie, just because not all Chrsitians celebrate Christmas, on Christmas day, does not mean they don't celebrate the birth of Christ. It was the Roman ruler Constantine who changed the dates of the HOLY DAYS to coincide with his own paganistic days of observance. He wanted to merge Chrstianity with his Roman paganism. Constantine was an oppressive paganistic ruler. He hated Christians, and by thinking that he could merge their religion with his paganism, he thought he could succeed in converting them to his merged church. He is the one who first started the Catholic sect of Christianity. NOt all Chrstians coverted to Constantines merged church because he kept paganistic practices. He is the one who started the erecting of statues of the saints and the kneeling down in front of these statues and praying to them as being the one who grants intercessions, as a part of that merger. He though that if he could get the Christians to sway toward his ways of worship and prayer, that he would be rid of the threat they posed to his paganism. Constantine corrupted the Holy practices that group of Christians. The Catholic sect is NOT a sect in which I follow, nor do many other Christians. NOT all Christians are the same. Many are still true to the precepts as taught in the covenant of the New Testament as is taught in the Bible, WITHOUT allowing for the merging of paganism into their churches.
Joudie, you need to learn history and the history of the Christians and how many of them were scattered and how many of them were divided from the truth of the word. The Catholics hide these things about Constantine from their history. As well as the Muslims hide the truths about other religions and the life of Christ Jesus from their teachings.

The truth is out there. You need to not allow fanatical religions hide it from you.
This is why freedom of speech is so important, this is why banning information from your people is happening. They don't want you to have freedom to research the truth. They want to hide the facts from you so that you have only limited knowledge of what history gets through to you.

I wonder how you even are allowed to use the computer. I know in many parts of the world where you are that they must ban and block much of what gets over to you. When they block information from you, you probably don't even know it is being blocked, do you? HOw could you? They just do it and you are none the wiser. And THAT is a form of oppression! They oppress you from know the truth that is out there. The truth about the history of the world. And by restricting that truth, you are limited in your freedom, in your choices of decerning what really is truth, and what is not. To hide the truth is oppression Joudie. You need to learn the history of the world. And then you can have a truth about the matter of why some Christians celebrate Christmas on December 25 and why some do not. :-?

.

 

[Alexia]

Heh, oh yeah--Heaven forbid a religion having pagan roots...:smt018

Religion has to develop from somewhere--why not something that already existed? Paganism's about as old as time itself. You can't expect people to turn from one way of life immediately over to another like it's nothing. You do know that some people won't even celebrate Christmas because they believe it's got pagan roots, right?

You can't expect people to turn from one way of life immediately over to another like it's nothing.

Your statement is not true Joudie.
We can expect the miracle of the healing power of the HOLY SPIRIT.

Do you know the transforming power of the Holy Spirit which is in Christ Jesus?
It does not not force, but it convicts the heart of a man. It transforms the heart of a person by way of revealing their sins to them and showing them of His loving transforming truths, His way, the truth and the life.

I hope you aren't judging all Americans as if they are all of the same Christian sects, as if they are all the same. There are many so called Christians churches I would not dare to step into, they are sin filled churches and I'll have no part of them.

Not all of them who claim to be Christians are good examples of what is truly a Christian. But we don't go about "forcing" sinners to covert to ONE religion. Only God can convict the heart of a man and reveal His Good Holiness to them. All we can do as followers of Christ is to show them the Holy Scriptures and help lead them to knowing Christ Jesus. We can not force anyone!

One must be very careful in decerning the spirit of a man, and not think that they are all alike. It is only the Holy Spirit that reveals who is and who is not of the Holy Spirit.
And it is only the Holy Spirit that is able to transform a person. The will of a person is not up to us to force into submission. The Holy Spirit's revealing nature is the only one who can change the heart of any person. It is up to us to teach and show them the Holy word, NOT by force, but by loving guidance. If they refuse it is not ours to force them into our faith. Only God can change a "willing" heart.

Have you read the books in the New Testament? Have you read the NEW Covenant which was written well over 600 years before Mohammed wrote any of doctrines and harsh rules of his man made orders? Mohammed would not let go of paganistic ways, so then, of course he had to write his own script, one which suited him. It is only partly in line with the Holy Will of the Holy Spirit. Mohammed's own carnal spirit wrote the rest of it.


There is no sin in Christ Jesus, no carnal selfishness, nor did he practice any type of paganism. Why then did not Mohammed follow Christ Jesus? Why did he make up his own books well over 600 years after the New Testament was written, which very clearly show that Mohammed's writtings often go against the teaching of the Loving Holy Spirit of God?


Joudie, just because not all Chrsitians celebrate Christmas, on Christmas day, does not mean they don't celebrate the birth of Christ. It was the Roman ruler Constantine who changed the dates of the HOLY DAYS to coincide with his own paganistic days of observance. He wanted to merge Chrstianity with his Roman paganism. Constantine was an oppressive paganistic ruler. He hated Christians, and by thinking that he could merge their religion with his paganism, he thought he could succeed in converting them to his merged church. He is the one who first started the Catholic sect of Christianity. NOt all Chrstians coverted to Constantines merged church because he kept paganistic practices. He is the one who started the erecting of statues of the saints and the kneeling down in front of these statues and praying to them as being the one who grants intercessions, as a part of that merger. He though that if he could get the Christians to sway toward his ways of worship and prayer, that he would be rid of the threat they posed to his paganism. Constantine corrupted the Holy practices that group of Christians. The Catholic sect is NOT a sect in which I follow, nor do many other Christians. NOT all Christians are the same. Many are still true to the precepts as taught in the covenant of the New Testament as is taught in the Bible, WITHOUT allowing for the merging of paganism into their churches.
Joudie, you need to learn history and the history of the Christians and how many of them were scattered and how many of them were divided from the truth of the word. The Catholics hide these things about Constantine from their history. As well as the Muslims hide the truths about other religions and the life of Christ Jesus from their teachings.

The truth is out there. You need to not allow fanatical religions hide it from you.
This is why freedom of speech is so important, this is why banning information from your people is happening. They don't want you to have freedom to research the truth. They want to hide the facts from you so that you have only limited knowledge of what history gets through to you.

I wonder how you even are allowed to use the computer. I know in many parts of the world where you are that they must ban and block much of what gets over to you. When they block information from you, you probably don't even know it is being blocked, do you? HOw could you? They just do it and you are none the wiser. And THAT is a form of oppression! They oppress you from know the truth that is out there. The truth about the history of the world. And by restricting that truth, you are limited in your freedom, in your choices of decerning what really is truth, and what is not. To hide the truth is oppression Joudie. You need to learn the history of the world. And then you can have a truth about the matter of why some Christians celebrate Christmas on December 25 and why some do not. :-?

.

Let me guess, you hate Catholics....lol...a sect? I'd say we were the Church...your history is a bit fuzzy....I would suggest a real history book rather than whatever apologetic stuff you're reading.

 

[Rick W]

John 14:6 Jesus saith unto him, I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me.

Matthew 10:32 Whosoever therefore shall confess me before men, him will I confess also before my Father which is in heaven.
Matthew 10:33 But whosoever shall deny me before men, him will I also deny before my Father which is in heaven.


John 12:26 If any man serve me, let him follow me; and where I am, there shall also my servant be: if any man serve me, him will my Father honor.

2Peter 1:17 For he received from God the Father honor and glory, when there came such a voice to him from the excellent glory, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased.





John 5:22 For the Father judgeth no man, but hath committed all judgment unto the Son:
John 5:23 That all men should honor the Son, even as they honor the Father. He that honoreth not the Son honoreth not the Father which hath sent him.


John 5:26 For as the Father hath life in himself; so hath he given to the Son to have life in himself;
John 5:27 And hath given him authority to execute judgment also, because he is the Son of man.

John 15:23 He that hateth me hateth my Father also.




I don't see that it really matters where Islam came from. Denying The Son, who He is, or making Him out to be just a prophet is no better off than any other religion that denies Christ as the Messiah, The Son of God.

 

[Relic]

Let me guess, you hate Catholics....lol...a sect? I'd say we were the Church...your history is a bit fuzzy....I would suggest a real history book rather than whatever apologetic stuff you're reading.

Alexia, my history is NOT fuzzy. The information I obtained is from REAL History books, NOT fuzzy apologetic. And, mind you, not all apologetic commentaries are nonsense. IF you know your history, you would be able to decipher the truth from the false. And so, just by reading your comments, Alexia, I see you are not well read in the History of the Roman Empires in how they were of pagan origin and how they refused to totally let go of paganism during and after the reign of Constantine.

Look up the orgin of the Pontifices, they are of Pagan Roman origins. The Catholic church adhered to the pagan titles of Pontiffs. Hence the title Pope, Some of the very first Popes took on the name Pope Pius, etc. The Catholic "church" is NOT the Original Church of the true followers of Christ. It is a branch (a sect) off of those who gave into the merging of Constantines paganistic practices with the original Christianity. Thereby making the "Catholic" religion an impure version of Christianity. The followers of Christ who refused to give into Contstantines meshings went off to form other sects of the Christian religions outside of Byzantine influences. Similarily, in regard to any religion that does not stay true to the precepts and principles of JHVH GD, the religion of Islam still has paganism meshed in with it's teachings.

I don't see that it really matters where Islam came from. Denying The Son, who He is, or making Him out to be just a prophet is no better off than any other religion that denies Christ as the Messiah, The Son of God.

I agree PotLuck,

I also believe that any body of religion that refuses to let go paganism is in denial of The Sacred Holy Spirit of Christ Jesus by way of their idolizing "things" over the Holy Spirit of Christ Jesus. To honor a day in memory of an event is one thing, but to take a pagan practice and keep it so as to merge it with Christ-ianity is a people who have a divided heart. We are to give our all to the Holy Spirit of Christ Jesus, NOT partly given over to paganism and then the left over to Christ-ianity.

.

 

[Devekut]

He wanted to merge Chrstianity with his Roman paganism. Constantine was an oppressive paganistic ruler. He hated Christians, and by thinking that he could merge their religion with his paganism, he thought he could succeed in converting them to his merged church. He is the one who first started the Catholic sect of Christianity. NOt all Chrstians coverted to Constantines merged church because he kept paganistic practices. He is the one who started the erecting of statues of the saints and the kneeling down in front of these statues and praying to them as being the one who grants intercessions, as a part of that merger. He though that if he could get the Christians to sway toward his ways of worship and prayer, that he would be rid of the threat they posed to his paganism. Constantine corrupted the Holy practices that group of Christians.

Quite an interesting version of history you have here Relic.

1. Catholicism was not started by Constantine. Constantine gave political consent to the Catholic Church which had already been in existence for centuries. Christians, before Constantine, already regarded the Saints as praying for them in heaven, already had a Mass and the Eucharist, already had a high reverence for the Virgin Mary, hierachical authority and a basic priesthood.

2. Catholicism was not a "sect". You believe Catholicism to have been started by Constantine, yet you write

"NOt all Chrstians coverted to Constantines merged church because he kept paganistic practices"

It's interesting that there really was no other Church in the West except the Roman Catholic Church until the Reformation. Please Relic, do tell us, who are these Christians who were saved from Constantine's Catholicism?

Give us some citations.

 

[Relic]

He wanted to merge Chrstianity with his Roman paganism. Constantine was an oppressive paganistic ruler. He hated Christians, and by thinking that he could merge their religion with his paganism, he thought he could succeed in converting them to his merged church. He is the one who first started the Catholic sect of Christianity. NOt all Chrstians coverted to Constantines merged church because he kept paganistic practices. He is the one who started the erecting of statues of the saints and the kneeling down in front of these statues and praying to them as being the one who grants intercessions, as a part of that merger. He thought that if he could get the Christians to sway toward his ways of worship and prayer, that he would be rid of the threat they posed to his paganism. Constantine corrupted the Holy practices that group of Christians.

Quite an interesting version of history you have here Relic.

1. Constantine gave political consent to the Catholic Church which had already been in existence for centuries.

Constantine was a Roman Pagan who changed the practices, the dates and the worshiping style of the those who followed and observed the Judeo/Hebrew's. Hence, they then, in that stance, became corrupt and coverts to the the ways of the Roman Pagan Constantine. Constantine changed , the days of observances, their HOLY DAYS. December 25 is not the day Christ was born. It is an old pagan holy day. As is the dates and the name very name Easter. Constantine merged the observance of the pagan holy day of with the day of Christ's Burth and that of the day of Christ Asscending into heaven. A merging of Pagan holy days with Christians days of obserbances. MUTT-LIKE CHRISTIANITY!

Devekot, Study the old greek and roman history and you will see how the "Catholics" are "sects/branches from off of" the mergings of paganism with the teachings and holy days of observance of Christ Jesus.

Where is your proof that the "Catholic" church was already in existence? What dates do you have that show there was no Roman or Greek Pagan influence within that church you claim was and is "Catholic" ?

Look the meaning of Catholic in an OLD dictionary that pre-dates the 1960's! NOT a new one, the new dictionaries, these days, have left out way too much of the truth in meaning! Catholicism has nothing to do with the true followers of Christ. Those who turned away from the true following were those who are called Catholics (the orthodox Roman following, and from Greek influence also). I'm referring to those who DID NOT TURN TOWARD THE MESHINGS OF CONSTANTINE'S Roman Paganistic influence.
Catholicism emerged from those people who refused to let go of paganism or accepted the merging, and yet they still held onto the teachings of Christ Jesus.
THEY MERGED their beliefs and practices. They were of the Roman and the Greek people. Those were the beginnings of and the establishment of the Orthodox Byzantine church, and the Roman Catholic church.

Also, and look up the true meaning of "sect". I'll have you know that most of the Christian churches today are a "sect,a branch from off of, a cut, a part of, a fraction of" those who were of the first true followers of Christ. I didn't say that ALL of the first "true followers" converted. I said those who coverted to Constantines mergings were from those who were of that following.
So then, OF COURSE, THOSE WHO STAYED TRUE TO THE TEACHINGS OF JESUS, THE TRUE FOLLOWERS , DIDN'T convert to the Roman Paganism merged with Christianity!

Constantine changed the dates and practices of the Christians that were followers of Christ Jesus , of those who then turned towards his mergings of paganism with Christianity.
The "Catholic" sect of Christianity were of those Christ-ians who turned towards following the "old Roman paganistic ways" and of those who turned towards following the "old Greek paganisitic ways" . They merged the teachings of Jesus with the old paganism OF WHICH, BY THE WAY, was what Christ Jesus and his diciples were preaching against.
They were already currupted by the OLD way. They were the one's who did not hold fast the teachings of Christ, they were the one's who I'm talking about!
There were plenty of the "true followers" calling out to them to stop turning backward to their OLD WAYS (PAGAINISM) .
Read about the 7 churches in the book of Revelation, and throughout the New testament how they strayed from staying true to the teachings of Christ Jesus. These were those who turned back towards their old paganistic ways... And what were their old ways? Answer: The Paganism of the Romans and the Greek, of the the paganistic ways of the people of that whole region west and northwest of Jerusalem. The Romans had their own religion well before Christ was born, as did the Greeks. Those who meshed where of the beginnings of the "Catholic" religion.

Christians, before Constantine, already regarded the Saints as praying for them in heaven, already had a Mass and the Eucharist, already had a high reverence for the Virgin Mary, hierachical authority and a basic priesthood.

Again, Where is your proof that the "Catholic" church was already in existence? What dates do you have that show there was no Roman or Greek Pagan influence within that church you claim was and is "Catholic" ? What historic facts can you show for this claim of yours? Constantine's reign and the pagan influences he HELD onto are clearly evident in recorded history. Decipher it carefully, you will see that HE changed the course of many in the way they worshiped and prayed. He corrupted many of those who WERE following the true teachings of Christ Jesus.
You must notice that Constantine corrupted Christianity even more than was spoken of in the bible, the book of Revelation shows evidence of the corruptions which were meshed even before Constantine. The corruptions were of Roman and Greek influences! The warnings were set well before Constantine made them HIS OWN WAY, AND SET HIS OWN DATES of oversevances.

2. Catholicism was not a "sect". You believe Catholicism to have been started by Constantine, yet you write

"NOt all Chrstians coverted to Constantines merged church because he kept paganistic practices"

Again, Of course those who held fast to the "true following of Christ Jesus" did NOT covert. They were not of those traitors/apostates who merged in with the paganisms of the Romans and the Greeks.

It's interesting that there really was no other Church in the West except the Roman Catholic Church until the Reformation. .

Oh Really, :
Church? You mean "YOUR" limited definition of the "Chruch"... As if there was no other "Chruches" besides the "Catholic" churches? 8-) Really Devekut, you need to study the truth about the scattering of the true followers of Christ.

Please Relic, do tell us, who are these Christians who were saved from Constantine's Catholicism?
Give us some citations.

Those who did not covert. Those who stayed true to the following of Christ Jesus.

And, do you think none of the Jewish people who turned to followed Christ went another way besides following the "Catholics" ?
There are many branches of the Messianic churches? What of the people who went underground, during the time the Romans influenced Christians? What aobut those Christians who were of the body, the church, that truly did not allow any "pagan" influences to mesh with thier following of the teachings of Christ? AYE? Do you think there are none that were affected by these Roman and Greek paganistic mergings?

Really, Devekut, you must study the history religions more thouroughly. The "Catholic" church was not the beginning of the "Chruch". the Catholic church was a merging of paganism with Christianity.

============================

This topic is about the the Islam influence NOT the Catholic influence.
So in turning the topic back on track ...
Regardless of the influence the Romans and the Greeks have had in the Catholic religion, Likewise to that of the Catholics, but from different sources of influence, the Islamic religions are still holding onto the influence of the corruptions of paganistic practices.


.

 

[golfjack]

I believe Paganism started with Nemrod, Noah's grandson.



May God bless, Golfjack

 

[Relic]

I believe Paganism started with Nemrod, Noah's grandson.

May God bless, Golfjack

There are many many different forms of paganism. Does it matter that it started with Nimrod? The Romans adopted from the Greeks and also created their own forms of pagan deities and worship of them. They also adopted the Christians beliefs and forms of worship into thier own. Constantine dictated that "new" merger of Roman paganism with Christianity, thereby, creating the "Catholicism" of the Romans and the Greeks. We all know that the the Romans dictated much of went on in those days and only allowed other religions a limited freedom AS dictated by the one who was in Rule of Rome, at that time being the Roman Pagan Constantine who dictated this "new" merging of religions.

The whole point is, Golfjack, that paganism is not included in the teachings of Christ Jesus. And so, tacking on paganistic practices and titles onto any of the Apostles is wrong.
Also, the Islamic faith is as Lewis pointed out in the OP, of many different sects of religion. They do not even recognize Christianity. Christians according to the to the Islam religion are considered to be infidels. THEY (those of the Islam religion) also refuse to see the roots of their religion which they still hold fast to are of pagan origin.

There is no real value or benefit to the practice of Paganism. Paganism is a deceptive religion. It transgresses the Righteousness of the truth in and of the Holy Spirit of God.

.

 

[Biblereader]

AMEN !! Praise the Lord for a faithful, bold witness! :D

Your statement is not true Joudie.
We can expect the miracle of the healing power of the HOLY SPIRIT.

Do you know the transforming power of the Holy Spirit which is in Christ Jesus?
It does not not force, but it convicts the heart of a man. It transforms the heart of a person by way of revealing their sins to them and showing them of His loving transforming truths, His way, the truth and the life.

I hope you aren't judging all Americans as if they are all of the same Christian sects, as if they are all the same. There are many so called Christians churches I would not dare to step into, they are sin filled churches and I'll have no part of them.

Not all of them who claim to be Christians are good examples of what is truly a Christian. But we don't go about "forcing" sinners to covert to ONE religion. Only God can convict the heart of a man and reveal His Good Holiness to them. All we can do as followers of Christ is to show them the Holy Scriptures and help lead them to knowing Christ Jesus. We can not force anyone!

One must be very careful in decerning the spirit of a man, and not think that they are all alike. It is only the Holy Spirit that reveals who is and who is not of the Holy Spirit.
And it is only the Holy Spirit that is able to transform a person. The will of a person is not up to us to force into submission. The Holy Spirit's revealing nature is the only one who can change the heart of any person. It is up to us to teach and show them the Holy word, NOT by force, but by loving guidance. If they refuse it is not ours to force them into our faith. Only God can change a "willing" heart.

Have you read the books in the New Testament? Have you read the NEW Covenant which was written well over 600 years before Mohammed wrote any of doctrines and harsh rules of his man made orders? Mohammed would not let go of paganistic ways, so then, of course he had to write his own script, one which suited him. It is only partly in line with the Holy Will of the Holy Spirit. Mohammed's own carnal spirit wrote the rest of it.


There is no sin in Christ Jesus, no carnal selfishness, nor did he practice any type of paganism. Why then did not Mohammed follow Christ Jesus? Why did he make up his own books well over 600 years after the New Testament was written, which very clearly show that Mohammed's writtings often go against the teaching of the Loving Holy Spirit of God?


Joudie, just because not all Chrsitians celebrate Christmas, on Christmas day, does not mean they don't celebrate the birth of Christ. It was the Roman ruler Constantine who changed the dates of the HOLY DAYS to coincide with his own paganistic days of observance. He wanted to merge Chrstianity with his Roman paganism. Constantine was an oppressive paganistic ruler. He hated Christians, and by thinking that he could merge their religion with his paganism, he thought he could succeed in converting them to his merged church. He is the one who first started the Catholic sect of Christianity. NOt all Chrstians coverted to Constantines merged church because he kept paganistic practices. He is the one who started the erecting of statues of the saints and the kneeling down in front of these statues and praying to them as being the one who grants intercessions, as a part of that merger. He though that if he could get the Christians to sway toward his ways of worship and prayer, that he would be rid of the threat they posed to his paganism. Constantine corrupted the Holy practices that group of Christians. The Catholic sect is NOT a sect in which I follow, nor do many other Christians. NOT all Christians are the same. Many are still true to the precepts as taught in the covenant of the New Testament as is taught in the Bible, WITHOUT allowing for the merging of paganism into their churches.
Joudie, you need to learn history and the history of the Christians and how many of them were scattered and how many of them were divided from the truth of the word. The Catholics hide these things about Constantine from their history. As well as the Muslims hide the truths about other religions and the life of Christ Jesus from their teachings.

The truth is out there. You need to not allow fanatical religions hide it from you.
This is why freedom of speech is so important, this is why banning information from your people is happening. They don't want you to have freedom to research the truth. They want to hide the facts from you so that you have only limited knowledge of what history gets through to you.

I wonder how you even are allowed to use the computer. I know in many parts of the world where you are that they must ban and block much of what gets over to you. When they block information from you, you probably don't even know it is being blocked, do you? HOw could you? They just do it and you are none the wiser. And THAT is a form of oppression! They oppress you from know the truth that is out there. The truth about the history of the world. And by restricting that truth, you are limited in your freedom, in your choices of decerning what really is truth, and what is not. To hide the truth is oppression Joudie. You need to learn the history of the world. And then you can have a truth about the matter of why some Christians celebrate Christmas on December 25 and why some do not. :-?

.[/quote]

 

[Joudie]

I wonder how you even are allowed to use the computer. I know in many parts of the world where you are that they must ban and block much of what gets over to you. When they block information from you, you probably don't even know it is being blocked, do you? HOw could you? They just do it and you are none the wiser. And THAT is a form of oppression! They oppress you from know the truth that is out there. The truth about the history of the world. And by restricting that truth, you are limited in your freedom, in your choices of decerning what really is truth, and what is not. To hide the truth is oppression Joudie. You need to learn the history of the world. And then you can have a truth about the matter of why some Christians celebrate Christmas on December 25 and why some do not.

Heh, it's a good thing I wasn't eating or drinking anything when I read that or I'd have a mess on the keyboard to clean up.

Everyone here is allowed to use the computer...duh. In fact, I'm posting this on my laptop right now--and in my house, in total, we've got four computers: one dekstop and three laptops. If we didn't have computers, not much would get done. Qatar's a rapidly growing and changing country--and in order to rapidly grow and expand--you would need the Internet. Plus, I know perfectly well which stuff is banned and which isn't. All I got to do is click on a link and either it'll show me the website or it would give me a notice saying that it's blocked. The notice includes an e-mail address to contact if you want to know the details behind why it's blocked. It's quite simple to tell, really.

I'm not really a fan of censorship, but they mostly block things that insult Islam in a really rude way or pornographic (or similarly inappropriate) sites. I still have access to pretty much anything I want to know. This forum right here has notorious anti-Islam stuff in it but it's not banned. YouTube isn't banned either---though I think it is in Saudi Arabia.

Besides, I'm not some kind of oppressed, cooped up, little Arab who managed to sneak a laptop into her bare little room and somehow got herself connected to the Internet. I'm also not constantly on the lookout for the secret police who would chop my hands (and possibly head) off if they ever found out. There's nothing like that here. If anything, education is encouraged. Sheikha Moza, the wife of the Emir, has established much in the way of this. She helped open Education City--an area where four extremely important universities have been established: Texas A&M, Carnegie Mellon, Weill Cornell and Virginia Commonwealth. Tell me that such a step to help give the Qatari population a wider opportunity to gain an amazing education in highly acclaimed schools is a sign of "oppression".

And I've learned world history through all my years in school and can find out more by pressing a few buttons. I am not oppressed in the least here...sure there are some rules that Americans could find to be a little odd but that's just because Qatar adheres to a different culture. It's nothing that you can't get used to and it's nothing bad. I don't even have to wear an abaya--I can wear whatever I want so long as it's conservative. (Meaning, no skimpy sleeveless shirts or stuff that bare too much cleavage or--I don't know--short shorts. Other than that, you can wear whatever you like.)

There are thousands of expatriates here from America and Canada and they live a good life here and have nothing bad to say. I go to a Canadian college where all my teachers are Canadian and they're happy to be where they are. It's definitely different than anything Western, but that's not a negative thing.

And one more thing--I haven't been living in Qatar all my life. I've lived in Saudi Arabia, Lebanon and Canada before I'd come here, and have visited quite a few other countries too--including the States. So I'm not someone who only knows one way of life. As someone who knows what it's like to live in Canada and Saudi Arabia, I can judge what's 'oppressive' and what isn't.

 

[Biblereader]

Well, let me ask you something.
Could a person walk in the streets, where you live, and pass out Christian
tracts, freely?

Could they pray, before they eat their meal, in Jesus's name, in a public restaurant?
Could they hand a Christian publication to the waitress?

 

[Biblereader]

Ah, no answer.

not yet, at least.

 

[Arj]

Islam has too kill its followers who turn too christ because it has no power,its an empty religeon.Dont get me wrong,i love all muslims,just not islam.We do agree in one god,but i cant accept mohammed,s teachings.

 

[Biblereader]

Hey, Joudie. Will you answer my questions, above, honestly?

Remember, all liars will have their part in the eternal Lake of Fire.

 

[Joudie]

Well, let me ask you something.
Could a person walk in the streets, where you live, and pass out Christian
tracts, freely?

Could they pray, before they eat their meal, in Jesus's name, in a public restaurant?
Could they hand a Christian publication to the waitress?

Hey Biblereader,

Sorry, I don't visit this site quite as often as I used to--I just read your posts today. Besides, I also have school stuff to do, so I don't have as much free time as I used to.

Anyways, to get to your questions:

I can't tell you honestly if you can pass out Christian tracts 'freely'. I've never seen anyone do it, so I'm not sure. I do know quite a few Qataris at college, though, so I can ask them about it when I get back to school next week.

As for praying in Jesus' name before a meal, I don't see why not. I doubt you'd get beaten up or arrested. You may get stared at if you say it very loudly or something but I'd say that's just because it's not something Qataris are used to.

I know they have churches here and stuff, and accept all religions here--even Jews. So I don't believe that praying in public would have a detrimental effect. I could also ask about this further with someone more familiar with the country if you like. I myself have only been living here for slightly over a year and a half.

As for your final post--heh, my friend, apparently everyone who doesn't believe at least the basis of what you do will have their place in the Lake of Fire. Nothing new, really.