THE PAGAN SOURCES OF ISLAM

[Biblereader]

If you don't mind my asking, and, I understand completely if you'd rather not disclose, but,
where, exactly, on the map, do you live?

I'd like to research the local area, myself.

 

[Joudie]

Why would I not want to disclose where the country I live in is? It's not like it's top secret...though it might as well be, it's really quite tiny. :P

It's a tiny peninsula that's connected to Saudi Arabia and about an hour's plane ride away from Dubai, U.A.E. Believe it or not, Qatar's airline "Qatar Airways" is one of the few 5-star airlines in the world.

Here's a map:

http://encarta.msn.com/encnet/features/ ... name=Qatar

And here's a Wikipedia article:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Qatar

Here are some other sites:

http://www.experienceqatar.com/
http://worldfactbook.com/country/Qatar/2006

I'm curious to know your reaction after doing your research.

 

[turnorburn]

Heh, oh yeah--Heaven forbid a religion having pagan roots...:smt018

Religion has to develop from somewhere--why not something that already existed? Paganism's about as old as time itself. You can't expect people to turn from one way of life immediately over to another like it's nothing. You do know that some people won't even celebrate Christmas because they believe it's got pagan roots, right?

Or Halloween because of its connection to the Druids... :o

 

[Sakeena]

Wa alaikumussalaam,

It's sad to know how people can be really ignorant about Islaam while the Muslims know a lot about their religion at least the basic. It just show how limited their knowledge is. Maybe you can just forget about that test but for Da'wah purposes, show him a copy of the translation of Qur'aan and show him Surah Maryam.


salam,

Sakeena

 

[garethppls]

I'd say that Islam is more descended from Gnosticism than from Paganism.

A notable example would be to note:

A certain Jew saw what Jesus did while playing on the Sabbath; he immediately went and announced to his father Joseph, "See, your child is at the stream, and has taken clay into his hands and modeled twelve birds; be has profaned the Sabbath." Joseph came to the place and seeing what Jesus did he cried out, "Why do you do on the Sabbath what it is not lawful to do". Jesus clapped his hands and cried to the sparrows, "Be gone." And the sparrows flew off chirping. The Jews saw this and were amazed. They went away and described to their leaders what they had seen Jesus do.

.... And behold, thou fashioned out of clay, as it were, the figure of a bird, by My leave, and thou breathest life into it and it becometh a bird by My leave.

 

[Biblereader]

It's sad to know how people can be really ignorant about Islaam while the Muslims know a lot about their religion at least the basic.


I would expect a muslim to know a lot about islam!
Just like real Christians know a lot about the Bible.

Why would a muslim want to know about Christianity, other than to
present arguments against?

The most glaring difference between islam and Christianity, is, Islam says to kill
anyone who won't convert. Or, tax them to death.
Christianity merely says to present the Truth, be kind to your enemies, speak the truth in love,
and that's it.
Jesus, the only Son of God, Jesus the Messsiah, blessed is His holy Name forever and ever,
has never told Christians to kill anyone who won't convert. Never.
Nor does Jesus say to tax non believers, nor does the glorious Saviour, the Way, the Truth, the Life, the only way to Heaven, tell his children to do ANYTHING harmful to non believers.

Islam is the exact opposite of Christianity.

 

[Joudie]

Actually, I wanted to learn more about Christianity just because I wanted to learn more about Christianity--not because I wanted to present arguments against it. Why would I want to do that? It's pointless. It's not going to get you to change your mind--and that's not even a goal of mine anyways.

The only thing I stressed on here was trying to clear up misconceptions about Islam. That didn't work too well either, but I can't say I didn't try. I also questioned your beliefs, simply to know why you believe or think the way you do. I'm sure it's not something you haven't gone through before.

So, did you check out the links I gave you? I really am curious to know how you see Qatar as someone who lives thousands of kilometers away.

 

[turnorburn]

I watch you people of the Muslim faith and I've come to this conclusion, your all a bunch of bleeding hearts, but call off your terrorists so they don't cause are hearts to bleed like "in the streets".. There is a saying, all Muslims are not terrorists but all terrorists are Muslim, care to redirect ;-)

In His Service,
turnorburn

Wa alaikumussalaam,

It's sad to know how people can be really ignorant about Islaam while the Muslims know a lot about their religion at least the basic. It just show how limited their knowledge is. Maybe you can just forget about that test but for Da'wah purposes, show him a copy of the translation of Qur'aan and show him Surah Maryam.


salam,

Sakeena

 

[Joudie]

Heh, you mean: "Not ALL Muslims are terrorists, but all terrorists are Muslims". The way you said it made no sense, you just contradicted yourself.

(That's the grammar freak in me coming out.)

Well, sure. I can think of quite a few terrorist groups that aren't Muslims...but instead of listing them out here you can just visit this:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_de ... anizations

The neutrality of the whole article's disputed, but there ya go. Sure, quite a few of the terrorist groups listed are Muslim, but there is a handful of Christian, Sikh and even Jewish ones. Others are simply political and have nothing to do with religion. So...no, not all terrorists are Muslims. Even 'Muslim' terrorists are not really Muslim...they just believe they are--and so, apparently, do you. Nice to know you've got something in common.

I'd also like you to clarify what you meant by your whole 'bleeding hearts' statement...I didn't get it. Would you care to elaborate?

 

[turnorburn]

Dear freakin me comin out, this the only list I consider worth looking at.. ;-)

 

[Joudie]

You can just call me Joudie.

I wasn't aware the Bible was a "list"...nor was I aware that the Bible said that all terrorists are Muslims. But, hey, whatever floats your boat turnorburn.

 

[turnorburn]

Actually its a book of lists, you can find any listing you want, for example..

The fighting brothers, Jacob & Esau, Jacob received the promised blessing, Esau missed it, and try as he may there was no remedy

What your seeing on the world stage is an ongoing fight between two families, you can have it either way, Christians & Muslims, or Hebrews & Arabs... Your statement that it didn't say Muslims
were terrorists but lets take a look at scripture that would explain their violent nature, have a close look at verse 40.. Genesis 27:38~40

38 And Esau said unto his father, Hast thou but one blessing, my father? bless me, even me also, O my father. And Esau lifted up his voice, and wept.
39 And Isaac his father answered and said unto him, Behold, thy dwelling shall be the fatness of the earth, and of the dew of heaven from above;
40 And by thy sword shalt thou live, and shalt serve thy brother; and it shall come to pass when thou shalt have the dominion, that thou shalt break his yoke from off thy neck.

You can just call me Joudie.

I wasn't aware the Bible was a "list"...nor was I aware that the Bible said that all terrorists are Muslims. But, hey, whatever floats your boat turnorburn.

 

[garethppls]

I know you guys are making a point and that's fair enough. But your views on Islam are based on unfair principles. I as a Christian, do not feel it's acceptable to suggest that all Muslims are violent, and that all Muslims are terrorists. The best society to have is a trusting society, not one that turns to point the finger at every turn. From a European perspective, I think that a lot of the time Muslims are used as scapegoats. However some criticisms are also legitimate.

 

[turnorburn]

Notice if you will in my original statement what I said about Muslims. Now go to the Hebrew nation and tell them what your saying here. Maybe visit a site where a school bus full of children was vaporized for their Allah. Then on your return route go through a Muslim neighborhood and preach Christ, like they used to and still do if they live to tell their story. When the Israelis
retaliate for the deaths of those children, 9 times out of 10 the Muslims get the good press.

In His Service,
turnorburn



Reply with quoteEdit postReport this post Re: THE PAGAN SOURCES OF ISLAM
by turnorburn on Fri Nov 30, 2007 4:07 pm

I watch you people of the Muslim faith and I've come to this conclusion, your all a bunch of bleeding hearts, but call off your terrorists so they don't cause are hearts to bleed like "in the streets".. There is a saying, "all Muslims are not terrorists but all terrorists are Muslim", care to redirect

In His Service,
turnorburn

 

[garethppls]

Maybe visit a site where a school bus full of children was vaporized for their Allah. Then on your return route go through a Muslim neighborhood and preach Christ, like they used to and still do if they live to tell their story. When the Israelis
retaliate for the deaths of those children, 9 times out of 10 the Muslims get the good press.

There have been similar incidents by the IDF, that were not provoked by Palestinians either. Both have equal responsibility. In a lot of cases the IDF act disproportionately and this cannot be ignore either.

I believe that Israel is God's land yes, but I don't believe that we should withhold valid criticism because of it.

There is a saying, "all Muslims are not terrorists but all terrorists are Muslim",

Which is totally inaccurate. Believe it or not Christianity has also played a role in terror, as have many other faiths. Judaism being among them. None of us are blameless, but I do agree at the present time Islamic terrorism has been thriving. But is there a core reason for that as well? I think it's because of the lack of a trusting society and a society willing to integrate other people.

 

[turnorburn]

I hear people all the time with that argument, Christian terrorists if you will, give me an example of these Christians. It will at least give us a point of reference, don't you think..

In His Service,
turnorburn

 

[garethppls]

Sure:

INLA, CIRA, UDA, UVF, Farque Rebels in Colombia, and ETA, are all still active, and are all Christians (whether or not true Christians is debatable).

All of this terror branches from the lack of a trusting society though.

In addition to this:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_de ... #Christian

 

[turnorburn]

;-) Its happened because people refuse to believe in the one true God.. No ears to hear, and the ones they have their using to listen to a bunch of preconceived ideas.

 

[garethppls]

These people claim to be Christians. They claim to believe in the one true God. Surely Muslims could say that the terrorists in their faith refuse to believe in the one true God, but you don't give them any hearsay.

 

[turnorburn]

Don't we wish that everybody could be brothers and sisters and live in harmony? Sure we do, but when there are a couple of brothers in the family constantly fighting it won't happen. This thread is getting a wee bit stale, maybe something a little more positive is in order :-D

In His Service,
turnorburn