The political opinion of a dissenter in the USA.

[mondar]

If you do not wish to read a political opinion, stop here. This is a political opinion about the direction our culture is moving here in the USA.

SOME HISTORY
When the crusades came, little was left of the great structures of the classical age. The roads, the Coliseum, great cities, the aqueducts, and all that Roman culture had build was a faint memory as people lived in their sod hovels in a primitive culture. The thing that brought Western Europe out of the dark ages was a combination of the crusades and the university. The crusades were bringing back greek manuscripts from the Orient. Suddenly the greek language was being learned by Renascence scholars, and later humanists of the Reformation. They began reading, and learning of Roman classical culture and greek philosophy. New Gothic structures soon appeared in Europe across the landscape.

The Medieval Catholic Church at times struggled with universities for control of the soul of the new western culture that was developing. Developing nationalism, combined with the religious Reformation, divided Europe. Religious was broke out most cultures formed around the concept of the "STATE CHURCH." Each developing state seemed to have its state Church. The university continued to exist, and often times reflected the religious opinions of the state in which it existed. If I mention the a university in Germany, Wittenburg, most will think of a certain religious opinion. States supported the Church and the University.

In England, they had Oxford and Cambridge. The Church of England was the official state religion. Other schools and religions were permitted, but the Church of England was supported by the state. Of course in the early 1600s Scotland joined the united Monarchy. The Presbyterian Church was the state Church of Scotland.

Nevertheless, dissenters arose. Dissenters were allowed to practice their religion, but they still had to pay taxes to the state, and the state Church. The puritans came to North America in search of religious freedom. In several colonies (before 1776) you could not vote if you were not a member of the State Church. New England was not one of those colonies. Yet in New England Puritanism was the state Church of their culture. Pennsylvania was a true and real exception. The Quakers were dissenters who established no state Church in their colony.

The revolutionary War changed things. The state Church died. From 1776 to the 1920s, a vague and general Christianity existed in most schools. Many universities were established by certain denominations. Most universities took religious opinions. State universities also competed with the private religious schools.

In the 1920s the Fundamentalist Controversies occured. It affected our culture on a scale I feel historians do not grasp. The controversy was about doctrine. The Fundamantalists, at that time, were denominational leaders that focused upon the "Fundamentals of the Faith" and attempted to retake leadership within their denominations. When they failed, they walked out and began to establish their own schools, universities, Churches, and denominations, bible colleges, missions, and other institutions. Some Fundamentalists look at this as a time of victory. I think they look at it in the wrong way, it was a time when our culture became totally secular. Without the conservatives in the denominations, Theological liberalism became the new orthodoxy. Secularism began to rule.

Today, men like Bishop Spong can campaign for gay rights. Spong's theology says that every man should make his own God. God is whatever concept of God you want it to be. Many of the clergy in the older denominations, universities, and schools reflected the totally secular culture around them.

Now the state funds local school districts at the grade school and high school level. They fund secular universities and schools. Christians pay taxes to support evolutionary teachings at all levels of education. Some local school districts have become aggressively pushing super rights for Gays. Christians pay taxes for this to happen.

As culture in USA has become totally secular, what once was the under the control of the "State Church" has come under the control of the "Secular State Church." We pay taxes to support a secular (even anti-God) philosophy.

Christians are now the minority. We are in the same place that former dissenters were in England and Europe. We have our own institutions, but we must pay taxes to the State Church of Secularism.

I have no doubts the Obama administration will advance the Secular State Church all they can. We are now the dissenters. I ask not for the State to support religion. I ask them to stay out of religion. Now the the recession is getting deeper, I would love to see them cut off all aid to universities and school districts. I would love to see local communities cut off aid to local school districts. I would love to see all children have to pay for any school they go to. I would love to see them go to the school of their choice. If they are too poor, I have no problem with Government aid, but let the child and parents choose the school they want to attend. I would love to see dissenters empowered.

From a dissenter,
Mondar

 

[kenmaynard]

Yes if you are someone who advocates returning to the dark ages where the church was able to hold near absolute power then I can see why one would want the United States to defund education. The ignorant, illiterate, and uneducated are far more likely to believe in all sorts of superstition, and are much easier to control.

 

[Lance_Iguana]

You are not the minority! The US is 70 - 80% Christian. Christianity has the highest concentrated percent of followers in the world 33%, with Islam following at 28%. No other religion has that high of a concentration.

Political ideas of Conservative and Liberal are quite new, being only about 100 years old in this nation.

Homosexuals want the same privileges straights have. Women wanted to represent themselves and have equal rights. Slaves where freed then given the same rights. Interracial Marriage was given to those who wanted it. Schools are an institution of learning so Evolution better be taught there, to not teach it would spit in the faces of those that have devoted their time to research it.

The Church has opposed every one of those and cited reasons to. The state is secular because in Europe the Church hindered the growth of nations, learning, and the freedoms of those not of a particular religion/ denomination.

Every time I hear a Christian claim they are a minority or is oppressed I want to scream. I swear you guys have the biggest inferiority complex I've ever seen.

Your religion is the only religion that actually effects the USA's ability to pass legislation, your religion is advertised everywhere. Your religion is the only religion that has churches in almost every single small town in the USA. You still have all the rights you had at the start of the nation.

Prayer may not be able to be led by a teacher or principle anymore, but you can still where your symbols, pray, and have what ever belief on school properties you want.

Just because society isn't bending over to please you ( witch it is) doesn't mean you are a minority. Try being an actual minority for once.

 

[mondar]

Yes if you are someone who advocates returning to the dark ages where the church was able to hold near absolute power then I can see why one would want the United States to defund education. The ignorant, illiterate, and uneducated are far more likely to believe in all sorts of superstition, and are much easier to control.

"Defund education?"

I would love to see local communities cut off aid to local school districts. I would love to see all children have to pay for any school they go to. I would love to see them go to the school of their choice. If they are too poor, I have no problem with Government aid, but let the child and parents choose the school they want to attend. I would love to see dissenters empowered.

kenmaynard, first, I think you did not accurately represent my post. I was not suggesting that education receive no funding, but that they receive funding of choice. There would be universal education, but families would be able to choose to dissent from the Secular State Church. Look at the cities of our nation. I live in Pennsylvania. In Philadelphia anyone with the money sends their children to the Catholics City Schools. It is simply a superior education. Why should poor children not be able to attend the better private schools? If the Government paid the way for poor children to the school of their choice why would that hinder education in any way? It seems to me that the secularists cannot provide a good education. The secularist schools look like the dark ages anyway. Why not take advantage of superior education in the religious and private schools by allowing competition and family poor families a choice?

Also, I have the suspicion that you do not know history sufficiently to understand the "dark ages." The Church of the dark ages ages was not as abusive and controlling as the Church of the mid-ages. You probably should have made the analogy of the high mid-ages instead of the dark ages. The dark ages were a time of cultural inferiority because of the comparison to the culture of Rome. By the high mid-ages (1200AD ff) the great age of Cathedral building was on the rise. Technology was again growing. But this was the age of the great power (abusively so) of the Popes and the Church of the mid-ages. However, even that passed quickly. Soon the French King would move the papacy to Avignon in the Babylonian Captivity. Where was the "near absolute power" of the Church then?

The power of the Church in the dark ages was growing, but it was not close to "near absolute power." The Frankish Kingdom of Charlemagne demonstrated that the State held great sway. At that time, the pope would not have dared tell Charlemagne what to do. That of course was an empire of great power. But the petty anglo/saxon kingdoms in Britain were certainly not cowed by the Church either. The Church established monestaries (such as the one at Lindisfarne). It was not until the high mid ages that Popes raise up and tore down Kings. It was the high mid-ages that the Pope excommunicated the Holy Roman Emperor and he had to submit to the pope in Rome. In the dark ages many of the petty chieftains sent valuable gifts to Northumbria, but the power of the Church was certainly not "near absolute." Of course when the Church became powerful, the rise of European civilization had started. The great age of Cathedral building had begun.

I guess I say all this to point out that your implied concept that religion causes "ignorance, illiterate.... superstition" is mere fantasy. Without the Church in the Dark Ages, learning would have died completely. Learning was kept alive only in the monasteries until the rise of the university in the high mid ages.

The dissenter
Mondar

 

[kenmaynard]

Yes if you are someone who advocates returning to the dark ages where the church was able to hold near absolute power then I can see why one would want the United States to defund education. The ignorant, illiterate, and uneducated are far more likely to believe in all sorts of superstition, and are much easier to control.

"Defund education?"

I would love to see local communities cut off aid to local school districts. I would love to see all children have to pay for any school they go to. I would love to see them go to the school of their choice. If they are too poor, I have no problem with Government aid, but let the child and parents choose the school they want to attend. I would love to see dissenters empowered.

kenmaynard, first, I think you did not accurately represent my post. I was not suggesting that education receive no funding, but that they receive funding of choice. There would be universal education, but families would be able to choose to dissent from the Secular State Church. Look at the cities of our nation. I live in Pennsylvania. In Philadelphia anyone with the money sends their children to the Catholics City Schools. It is simply a superior education. Why should poor children not be able to attend the better private schools? If the Government paid the way for poor children to the school of their choice why would that hinder education in any way? It seems to me that the secularists cannot provide a good education. The secularist schools look like the dark ages anyway. Why not take advantage of superior education in the religious and private schools by allowing competition and family poor families a choice?

Also, I have the suspicion that you do not know history sufficiently to understand the "dark ages." The Church of the dark ages ages was not as abusive and controlling as the Church of the mid-ages. You probably should have made the analogy of the high mid-ages instead of the dark ages. The dark ages were a time of cultural inferiority because of the comparison to the culture of Rome. By the high mid-ages (1200AD ff) the great age of Cathedral building was on the rise. Technology was again growing. But this was the age of the great power (abusively so) of the Popes and the Church of the mid-ages. However, even that passed quickly. Soon the French King would move the papacy to Avignon in the Babylonian Captivity. Where was the "near absolute power" of the Church then?

The power of the Church in the dark ages was growing, but it was not close to "near absolute power." The Frankish Kingdom of Charlemagne demonstrated that the State held great sway. At that time, the pope would not have dared tell Charlemagne what to do. That of course was an empire of great power. But the petty anglo/saxon kingdoms in Britain were certainly not cowed by the Church either. The Church established monestaries (such as the one at Lindisfarne). It was not until the high mid ages that Popes raise up and tore down Kings. It was the high mid-ages that the Pope excommunicated the Holy Roman Emperor and he had to submit to the pope in Rome. In the dark ages many of the petty chieftains sent valuable gifts to Northumbria, but the power of the Church was certainly not "near absolute." Of course when the Church became powerful, the rise of European civilization had started. The great age of Cathedral building had begun.

I guess I say all this to point out that your implied concept that religion causes "ignorance, illiterate.... superstition" is mere fantasy. Without the Church in the Dark Ages, learning would have died completely. Learning was kept alive only in the monasteries until the rise of the university in the high mid ages.

The dissenter
Mondar

Yes Defund isn't a word. Unfund may have been better? Stop funding.

 

[jasoncran]

Maybe what the dems hate is called for, but we have it in florida its called vouchers and also the charter schools.

a little compention wont hurt the goverment schools at all.

they are families in florida who arent christians that believe in these programs as they want their child to learn, not be 'held back" so that the trouble maker can get his attention. what i mean is their kids and parents of these kids who dont care about the education, and the kid disrupts class. he/she doesnt want to learn at all.

jason