Bible Study The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off

[stovebolts]

This topic came up in another thread, and I thought it would be a great bible study!

To start with, this is not a study on Baptism, nor is it intended to bring in any doctrines in regard to baptism. Instead, I want to focus on what was ment by the verse below. Let's have fun!

Acts 2:39"The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call."


If we look at this in context, Peter is talking to the same Jews who had Jesus Crucified as stated earlier in Acts 2:36 which we'll come back to. But first, I'd like to visit an area of interest that I believe the statement of "Children" origniated, then, we can look at the second half of the verse which deals with those "far off".

Now then, lets go back to Jesus before Pilate.

Matthew 27:24 So when Pilate saw that he prevailed nothing, but rather that a tumult was arising, he took water, and washed his hands before the multitude, saying, I am innocent of the blood of this righteous man; see ye to it.
25 And all the people answered and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.


We see here that even Pilate believes Jesus is a rigeous man, yet the Jews don't want to hear this. From the Apostles point of view, below would be the laws that the Jews in Acts 2:36 would have committed. Lets take a look.

Exodus 23:1 "Do not spread false reports. Do not help a wicked man by being a malicious witness.
2 "Do not follow the crowd in doing wrong. When you give testimony in a lawsuit, do not pervert justice by siding with the crowd,
7 Have nothing to do with a false charge and do not put an innocent or honest person to death, for I will not acquit the guilty.

Now then, take another look at what these very same people said just months earlier.
25 And all the people answered and said, His blood be on us, and on our children.

Is it any wonder why they respond on pentecost the way the do? Let's go back and read it once again.

Acts 2:36"Therefore let all Israel be assured of this: God has made this Jesus, whom you crucified, both Lord and Christ." 37When the people heard this, they were cut to the heart and said to Peter and the other apostles, "Brothers, what shall we do?"

So we see, that the promise was for their children. And BTW, as far as Exodus 23:7, the beauty of what happened on the Cross was their sins were Atoned for though the shed blood of Jesus.

But it doesn't end here, because I believe there is yet another layer to unfold, and it has to do with one of the ten commandments.

 

[stovebolts]

Acts 2:39"The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off—for all whom the Lord our God will call."

Let's take a look at this second half that's underlined. From the offset, it looks like Peter is talking about the Gentiles and I've read many commentaries that affirm this view. While this may be true, I have a hard time wrapping my mind around this being Peter is speaking to Jews in regard to being baptized and as we find out in Acts 10, Peter still believes that the Gentiles are unclean.

Thus, God sends him a vision and then, a visitor at his door telling him to visit a man named Cornelius. The ironic point to this are Peters very words in Acts 10:47 “No one can withhold the water for these people to be baptized, who have received the Holy Spirit just as we did, can he?†and he gives orders to have them baptized.

So, if this is the case, what does Peter mean when he speaks to the Jews and says, and for all who are far off.

I believe Peter is refering to Exodus 20:5 - 6 (Net Bible) as it relates to idols.

You shall not bow down to them or serve them, for I, the Lord, your God, am a jealous God, responding to the transgression of fathers by dealing with children to the third and fourth generations of those who reject me, 20:6 and showing covenant faithfulness to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

We could do a study itself on idols, but if you're familiar with the sin of Eve, her sin was idolatry. In other words, she made God into her image and thus, God became an idol. Isn't this what happened in the day's of Jesus? Didn't the sages set themselves up above God? Hadn't God become an idol for them? If you agree with this, then great. If need be, we can come back and address this more.

Now then, on the matter of responding to the transgressions of the fathers by dealing with the childrens to the 3rd and 4th generation, this is not talking about punishing the children for the sins of the father as noted in the book of Eziekiel.

So what is God taking about? I'd suggest he's talking about systemic sin and there are a few examples in the Bible. Actually, this first example comes right from the promise to Abraham when he recieved the covenant.

Genesis 15:16 In the fourth generation your descendants will return here, for the sin of the Amorites has not yet reached its limit.â€

So we can see here that the Amorites who rejected God will live lives of sin that worsens through the generations. What a horrible life IMO>

Any questions before we move on?

 

[Nathan]

Not much to say but isn't God's love and mercy great!!!

To the ones who were guilty of His death, He then declares forgiveness...

Some may look at it as a contradiction, but it should be seen as love in its truest form. From the Cross He would cry, "forgive them, for they know not what they do".

He confines all men under sin, so that He can have mercy on all.


To which commandment do you refer to? EDIT just saw your second post

 

[stovebolts]

Hi Nate. I think we posted at the same time

 

[Nathan]

Yes. lol. This is interesting, continue on.

 

[stovebolts]

And so we shall :nod

I do feel as this is a "quick and dirty" study as it is lacking detail, and there is so much that could be said a side of me wants to keep this simple.

So, let quickly move on to the second half of the promise.

20:6 and showing covenant faithfulness to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

The first question a jew will ask is, "Who are those that love me?" To this day the Jews still interpret this love as a rich and deep love. A love that is willing to give it's own life for God. This is typified by the prophets who gave their lives in service to God. Yes, even the very prophets that the sages had put to death and is echo'd in the words of Jesus himself as he mentions the white washed tombs. And it is my opinion that those who killed the prophets, were those who, like Eve were guilty of idolatry to whome their children paid the price.

Again, this can be seen through Solomon, for had it not been by promise to David, the kingdom would have been stripped from Solomon, and we have the story of how the kingdom was divided after Solomon, and how the temple was destroyed and the people went into exile, yet, those who Loved God gave their lives for him.

So it seems fitting that when Peter says, "The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off", perhaps he's speaking of God's promise 20:6 and showing covenant faithfulness to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Is it possible that the Jews realized that Jesus was the Son of God? Is it possible that they realized the idolitry they committed?

Why do I think this? Perhaps it's by the very words of Jesus.

Matthew 16:24 Then Jesus said to his disciples, “If anyone wants to become my follower, he must deny himself, take up his cross, and follow me. 16:25 For whoever wants to save his life will lose it, but whoever loses his life for my sake will find it.

I know this was roughly thrown together.. sorry for rushing.

Thoughts? Comments?

 

[cyberjosh]

First of all, excellent study Jeff! I have always enjoyed reading your detailed and balanced posts. So now... I caught two lines of Scriptural themes but don't seem to have caught what your conclusion is on them. So are you saying that Peter is alluding, in mentioning "those far off", to those Jews that had been generationally sinful to that day and were living outside of Israel in the diaspora, but who (those Jews) were now offered salvation by Jesus' sacrifice? I understand the reference in the ten commandments to mean that God will be faithful for generations to those who love him, but for those who hate him he will judge their line even down to the third and fourth generation.

So then which promise/threat applies to those a far off during Peter's day? If they were the sinful ones, who had hated him, would they not be under the threat/curse? Or is that the point that God's mercy transcended their iniquity despite their systemic sin, if only they would have faith and repent? If you could clarify perhaps I can understand the rest of what you've said so far.

Thanks!

Josh

 

[Elijah674]

First of all, excellent study Jeff! I have always enjoyed reading your detailed and balanced posts. So now... I caught two lines of Scriptural themes but don't seem to have caught what your conclusion is on them. So are you saying that Peter is alluding, in mentioning "those far off", to those Jews that had been generationally sinful to that day and were living outside of Israel in the diaspora, but who (those Jews) were now offered salvation by Jesus' sacrifice? I understand the reference in the ten commandments to mean that God will be faithful for generations to those who love him, but for those who hate him he will judge their line even down to the third and fourth generation.

So then which promise/threat applies to those a far off during Peter's day? If they were the sinful ones, who had hated him, would they not be under the threat/curse? Or is that the point that God's mercy transcended their iniquity despite their systemic sin, if only they would have faith and repent? If you could clarify perhaps I can understand the rest of what you've said so far.

Thanks!

Josh

satans promise (verse 6) quoted came from Psalms 91:11 of Gods [WORD].
How do you understand Christ qouting from O.T. Deut. 6:16 back to him? Surely savational 'promises' are conditional.

Matt.4
[1] Then was Jesus led up of the Spirit into the wilderness to be tempted of the devil.
[2] And when he had fasted forty days and forty nights, he was afterward an hungred.

[3] And when the tempter came to him, he said, If thou be the Son of God, command that these stones be made bread.
[4] But he answered and said, [It is written,] Man shall not live by bread alone, [ut by every word that proceedeth out of the mouth of God.] (Bottom/line as seen in Job 23:12's last part of the verse)

[5] Then the devil taketh him up into the holy city, and setteth him on a pinnacle of the temple,
[6] And saith unto him, If thou be the Son of God, cast thyself down: for it is written, He shall give his angels charge concerning thee: and in their hands they shall bear thee up, lest at any time thou dash thy foot against a stone.
[7] Jesus said unto him, It is written again, Thou shalt not tempt the Lord thy God.

--Elijah

 

[stovebolts]

Hi Josh,
Let’s see if I can clarify this first by going over briefly what I believe the commandment in Exodus 20:4-7 is getting at. Please know that to do an in-depth study on these verses could take several pages.

The jest, however, is centered on not giving credit for God’s glory to another god, or at least, minimizing YHVH himself to an idol. Furthermore, when we look at these verses, it takes on the form of bride and groom where YHVH is the groom, and Israel is His bride whom YHVH is passionate about. I've always thought that it's good to keep in mind that this event happened 3 months after the exodus from Egypt.

I had never thought about the Diaspora (Though I’d like to hear more on this from you) as those falling under “those who reject me” (Ex. 20:5) based on Geographic’s due to their adherence of the festivals (Exodus 23:14-17) which brought them to Jerusalem for Passover and placed them at the incident with Pilate (Matthew 27:25). This same adherence is affirmed through the incident on Pentecost (Acts 2:5 and Acts 2:36).

In pondering this, keep in mind that the vast majority of all the children of Israel had Torah memorized verbatim by age 9. This is still true of Orthodox Jews today.

At this point, I have to believe that like Saul, these Jews were devout and sincere in their love for YHVH, thus their adherence to Torah in the matter of traveling to Jerusalem for the mandated festivals. However, their sin in regard to Jesus had not yet been shown them. Thus, when they say in Matthew 27:25 “Let his blood be on us and our children!”, it’s an echo back to Exodus 20:5 as a statement which affirms that Jesus is not the Messiah. Jesus, as Pilate states, is not “King of the Jews”. Clearly, these Jews are rejecting Jesus as the Christ and they are confident in this matter.

This brings us forward to Peter’s statement in Acts 2:39. Imagine for a moment that you just realized that you had just rejected the Messiah. Imagine the guilt while going over the commandment ”responding to the transgression of fathers by dealing with children to the third and fourth generations of those who reject me” while keeping in mind how God had dealt with Israel after Solomon, as well as what Ezekiel or Jeremiah had endured and written about, or even questioning the (at that time) current state of Jerusalem which is another study in itself all together. Ahh, but what a relief it had to of been to hear Peter say, “For the promise is for you and your children, and for all who are far away, as many as the Lord our God will call to himself.”

Does that clear things up, or did I just rehash my initial post? I’d like to hear your view on the Diaspora or if you want to dive into Exodus 20 a bit deeper, we can do that too.

Thanks!

 

[savedbygrace57]

The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off

This is speaking about the seed of Abraham, the Spiritual seed at that.

This was not confined to the jews only, though peter at the time may have thought so.

Peter applied it to jews in acts 3:

25Ye are the children of the prophets, and of the covenant which God made with our fathers, saying unto Abraham, And in thy seed shall all the kindreds of the earth be blessed.

But its also used by Paul to intend the gentiles as well Gal 3:

8And the scripture, foreseeing that God would justify the heathen through faith, preached before the gospel unto Abraham, saying, In thee shall all nations be blessed.

So these gentiles too are the children of the prophets and the covenant God made with our Fathers !

Thats because God gave the promise to Abraham while He was yet in uncircumcision and after He had been declared by God to be the Father of many nations.

Gen 17:


5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

6And I will make thee exceeding fruitful, and I will make nations of thee, and kings shall come out of thee.

7And I will establish my covenant between me and thee and thy seed after thee in their generations for an everlasting covenant, to be a God unto thee, and to thy seed after thee.

8And I will give unto thee, and to thy seed after thee, the land wherein thou art a stranger, all the land of Canaan, for an everlasting possession; and I will be their God.

9And God said unto Abraham, Thou shalt keep my covenant therefore, thou, and thy seed after thee in their generations.

The Spirit was also promised to be poured out on this seed of Abraham.

Isa 44:

1Yet now hear, O Jacob my servant; and Israel, whom I have chosen:

2Thus saith the LORD that made thee, and formed thee from the womb, which will help thee; Fear not, O Jacob, my servant; and thou, Jesurun, whom I have chosen.

3For I will pour water upon him that is thirsty, and floods upon the dry ground: I will pour my spirit upon thy seed, and my blessing upon thine offspring:

This began on the day of Pentecost acts 2:17

And it shall come to pass in the last days, saith God, I will pour out of my Spirit upon all flesh: and your sons and your daughters shall prophesy, and your young men shall see visions, and your old men shall dream dreams:

18 And on my servants and on my handmaidens I will pour out in those days of my Spirit; and they shall prophesy:

acts 2:33

Therefore being by the right hand of God exalted, and having received of the Father the promise of the Holy Ghost, he hath shed[poured] forth this, which ye now see and hear.

And its confirmed to the gentiles here acts 10:45

And they of the circumcision which believed were astonished, as many as came with Peter, because that on the Gentiles also was poured out the gift of the Holy Ghost.

These were gentiles who Abraham had been made a Father to back in gen 17:

5Neither shall thy name any more be called Abram, but thy name shall be Abraham; for a father of many nations have I made thee.

Cornelius and his family were of the many nations Abraham was made a Father to.

 

[stovebolts]

SavedbyGrace,
Very well laid out and I actually agree with you. I was going to touch on this at a later time but you beat me to it lol. What I was trying to first establish was the connection to Exodus 20 as it gives us a mindset of those to whom Peter is speaking for as you know, I like to get behind the text, not just read the text as data points.

Grace and Peace.

 

[savedbygrace57]

stove:

Very well laid out and I actually agree with you

Hmm interesting. So Do you understand Israel and the Church as the same ? The seed of Abraham ?

 

[Elijah674]

Does Bible Study need the caution of the Lords Word in Rev. 22 as perhaps the starting point??


[16] I Jesus have sent mine angel to testify unto you these things in the churches. I am the root and the offspring of David, and the bright and morning star.

[17] And the Spirit and the bride say, Come. And let him that heareth say, Come. And let him that is athirst come. And whosoever will, let him take the water of life freely.

[18] For I testify unto every man that heareth the words of the prophecy of this book, If any man shall add unto these things, God shall add unto him the plagues that are written in this book:

[19] And if any man shall take away from the words of the book of this prophecy, God shall take away his part out of the book of life, and out of the holy city, and from the things which are written in this book.
[20] He which testifieth these things saith, Surely I come quickly. Amen. Even so, come, Lord Jesus

 

[stovebolts]

stove:



Hmm interesting. So Do you understand Israel and the Church as the same ? The seed of Abraham ?

Knowing your themes savedbygrace, that would probably be a topic more suitable for the Apologetics forum.

Grace and Peace.

 

[savedbygrace57]

Knowing your themes savedbygrace, that would probably be a topic more suitable for the Apologetics forum.

Grace and Peace.

Ah come on, Just say yes or no and we will leave it at that !

 

[stovebolts]

Elijah674,
While I understand your intent. Please know that the intent of the Bible Study forum is to discuss the scriptures, not simply quote them, or even less attractive, quote a series of scriptures.

What I would like to see more of Elijah and savedbygrace, is more "commentary" surrounding a particular piece of scripture as it related to those who it was initially written to, and / or; of.

I do not want the Bible Study forum to be an area that's primary purpose it to support or defend doctrines etc. That can be done on other forums within this board.

Thank you for your support.

 

[lovely]

I always thought those 'who are far off' would be their Fathers (of faith) Isaiah 59:9-21, as well as the Gentiles (of faith) Ephesians 2:4-22.

 

[cyberjosh]

Sorry Jeff, I've been planning to respond but have been busy. I'll try to get to this tonight.

Thanks,

~Josh

 

[cyberjosh]

Alrighty, I finally got around to reading your posts (again). *whew* I had to analyze your four posts like an English paper until I really understood at which point I was getting lost. So I will request some elaborations on the quotes below if you would be so kind as to oblige.

So, if this is the case, what does Peter mean when he speaks to the Jews and says, and for all who are far off.

I believe Peter is refering to Exodus 20:5 - 6 (Net Bible) as it relates to idols.
...
...
Is it possible that the Jews realized that Jesus was the Son of God? Is it possible that they realized the idolitry they committed?

So this is my question: Where did you get the original idea that "those who are far off" (in Peter's day) is connected with idols? What was the original equation that brought those two together for you? And if you are connecting it to an idea of sin (a guess), how can you tie it specifically to idols? I'm not seeing an obvious connector and wouldn't have thought of it unless you had mentioned it. I'm confident though you have some reasoning to help me understand.

In computer speak:
Until you reprogram my logic,
Let A = those afar off, and let B = idolators
In my simpleton logic, A != B.
(When following dictionary definitions).

So reprogram me if you can! ;) View attachment 1552

So it seems fitting that when Peter says, "The promise is for you and your children and for all who are far off", perhaps he's speaking of God's promise 20:6 and showing covenant faithfulness to a thousand generations of those who love me and keep my commandments.

Same question here for what led you to connect the "promise" Peter mentioned with Exodus 20:6? I am understanding your separately made point about the meaning of the Exodus 20 passage just fine, but how you thought to connect what Peter said in Acts with Exodus 20 is what I do not yet understand.

At this point, I have to believe that like Saul, these Jews were devout and sincere in their love for YHVH, thus their adherence to Torah in the matter of traveling to Jerusalem for the mandated festivals. However, their sin in regard to Jesus had not yet been shown them. Thus, when they say in Matthew 27:25 “Let his blood be on us and our children!”, it’s an echo back to Exodus 20:5 as a statement which affirms that Jesus is not the Messiah. Jesus, as Pilate states, is not “King of the Jews”. Clearly, these Jews are rejecting Jesus as the Christ and they are confident in this matter.

So I assume that once you've made the connection with what they said to the Exodus passage that you are interpreting it as that the Jews rejected Christ in order to adhere to the commandment in Exodus 20:5, out of their zeal to keep God's commandment and not accept a false god? So then if that is so, is it then that you see their realizing that they had done the exact opposite as the ultimate irony?

I had never thought about the Diaspora (Though I’d like to hear more on this from you) as those falling under “those who reject me” (Ex. 20:5) based on Geographic’s due to their adherence of the festivals (Exodus 23:14-17) which brought them to Jerusalem for Passover and placed them at the incident with Pilate (Matthew 27:25). This same adherence is affirmed through the incident on Pentecost (Acts 2:5 and Acts 2:36).

Well until we explore your Exodus idea a little more it might take us on a tangent to discuss the Diaspora, but the diaspora was the result of the remnants of the Exile (which also was a punishment for unfaithfulness to God), thus a result of sin. So I essentially took Peter's statement about those "afar off" in a more literal sense of those Jews still spread throughout the world at that time outside of Jerusalem. I understand it to mean it in the same way that James opened his epistle to the Jews: "James, a bond-servant of God and of the Lord Jesus Christ, To the twelve tribes who are dispersed abroad" (James 1:1). The Jews "dispersed abroad" are "afar off" and are part of the Diaspora. That's where my line of thinking came in.

I look forward to your response.

P.S. I can, on a separate note, (and would love to) go a little deeper with you on Exodus 20, but lets try to get these questions out of the way first so we don't get ahead of ourselves. Thanks!

God Bless,


~Josh

 

[cyberjosh]

Totally off the wall note:

For a moment when rereading James 1:1 "James, a bond-servant of God", I thought I saw the name "James Bond" in the verse. So in light of my humorous misreading I would like to propose that the New Living Josh Translation (NLJT) translate the opening of the Epistle: "The name is bond-servant, James bond-servant." :D

Hmmm... I'll have to use that in a sermon sometime to keep the youth's attention...

~Josh

Disclaimer: The NLJT™ translation is a trademark of Josh's imagination. Any relations to real persons, places, or things is purely coincidental.