The Purpose of Christ's death and resurrection.

[Merry Menagerie]

I was just wondering, if committing sin can still result in you going to hell, then what was the purpose of Christ dying on the cross?

If Sin can still separate you from God and if sin can make you lose your salvation...then obviously Christ dying on the cross wasn't enough.

Can someone please explain the purpose of Christ's death and resurrection and why God had to come to earth as FLESH...live a sinless life, was tortured, killed then raised from the dead and how it is suppose to be relevant for our salvation?

 

[thessalonian]

From what you state you must be a universalist?

 

[Solo]

From what you state you must be a universalist?

Only in the true definition of catholic, body of Christ sort of way.

The body of Christ is universal, and the head of the body of Christ is Jesus Christ. Each believer is a priest governing his own affairs as blessed by God almighty.

 

[Merry Menagerie]

From what you state you must be a universalist?

I asked questions! Are you going to answer them or continue throwing around 'red herrings' in an attempt to avoid?

 

[Solo]

From what you state you must be a universalist?

I asked questions! Are you going to answer them or continue throwing around 'red herrings' in an attempt to avoid?

Thes is a 'red herring' sort of guy. I doubt that he will answer your questions.

 

[AVBunyan]

Thes is a 'red herring' sort of guy. I doubt that he will answer your questions.

Is it possible he doesn't know?

 

[thessalonian]

From what you state you must be a universalist?

I asked questions! Are you going to answer them or continue throwing around 'red herrings' in an attempt to avoid?

Thes is a 'red herring' sort of guy. I doubt that he will answer your questions.

Excuse me. Moderators flame, personal attack. Oh wait, you are a mod. You can violate the rules all you want and not be suspended.

 

[thessalonian]

No red herring at all. The question had a purpose and I would have like a response before I answered yours. Christ died for the sins OF THE WORLD. Not just the sins of those who are saved. He is an infinite God and his infinite sacrifice was enough for the salvation of all. Paul tells us God's will is that "all men be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth". If you do not believe we can resist him then eventually all men must be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth. i.e. all men must be saved. Your question assumes irresistable grace which is a fallacy. Yes, God could rape us in to heaven. Force us there. But that's not his style. He allows us our wills and does not overpower us with grace but gives us what we need for our salvation. If we choose to reject his grace that is our own fault. If this were not true then him willing men to be saved and doing nothing about it is rather unmerciful. He did something for all. Yet many reject it.

 

[thessalonian]

By the way Mr. Solo, are you ever going to answer the question on Dispensationalism and John 3:16 that I pmed you on and repeatedly challenged you on and you NEVER answered.

Blessings

 

[thessalonian]

I was just wondering, if committing sin can still result in you going to hell, then what was the purpose of Christ dying on the cross?

Committing a sin cannot commit you to hell if you turn to him and his grace and his mercy. That is the problem with the galations. They turned away from him. They were SEVERED from him because they started relying on themselves rather than him. It is clear that for a time they did rely on him or they could not have been SEVERED.

[quote:46d04]If Sin can still separate you from God and if sin can make you lose your salvation...then obviously Christ dying on the cross wasn't enough.

We must not sin, but if we do we have an advocate. If we do not go to the advocate however we are condemned by our sins, for the wages of sin is death, unless we pay the fine with the grace of the one who died for our sins. The fine must be paid. We do not pay it if we at some point deny Christ and reject him. Paul warns us of falling away many times. Being severed or cut off. This is only due to one's sins and not going before the advocate for forgiveness.

[quote:46d04]Can someone please explain the purpose of Christ's death and resurrection and why God had to come to earth as FLESH...live a sinless life, was tortured, killed then raised from the dead and how it is suppose to be relevant for our salvation?

[/quote:46d04][/quote:46d04]

To my question, why are not all saved if this guarantees that we go to heaven? Was there some part of mankind's sins that an infinite God could not atone for? No. There was only the part of sins that man would not ask for the payment for. The payment is there for ALL men's sins. God wills that ALL mens sins be forgiven. But some resist his grace and therefore get justice rather than mercy. It makes no sense that a God who "desires that ALL men be saved and come to a knowledge of the truth", sends his son to die on the cross for ALL men, and then some do not get saved because of him. No he does all he can without violating our will. He gives all sufficient grace to be saved. Those who reject it and resist grace do so of their own accord and are responsible for their eternal damnation.

 

[wavy]

I was just wondering, if committing sin can still result in you going to hell, then what was the purpose of Christ dying on the cross?

(a) To establish the new covenant in his blood so as to reunite both houses of Israel; (b) remarry divorced Israel; (c) take away Israel's curses; (d) allow the Spirit to be poured out from him through his death; (e) atone for all lawlessness so anyone can accept that atonement and join the commonwealth of redeemed Israel;(f) to fulfill the scriptures :silly:

If Sin can still separate you from God and if sin can make you lose your salvation...then obviously Christ dying on the cross wasn't enough.

A lifestyle of sin can separate you. Continuously living in disobedience will get you cut off and cast into the fire. He died for lawlessness, not so we can have an excuse for lawlessness.

Can someone please explain the purpose of Christ's death and resurrection and why God had to come to earth as FLESH...live a sinless life, was tortured, killed then raised from the dead and how it is suppose to be relevant for our salvation?

His death for the things described above, his resurrection as a sign and witness for the new covenant and so that he could be the first in all glorius things, and to give us hope for our resurrection.

 

[Quath]

The death and resurrection doesn't make much sense to me. God could have just as easily just decided to forgive everyone. I see no need for human sacrifice. On top of that, it was an illegal sacrifice since Jesus wasn't a Levi priest, he could not perform sacrifices.

What would make sense would have made more sense would to treat Jesus as a scape goat. A scape goat takes the sins of a community and is released (no one has to die). Death was not the only God of the OT forgave sins, so the death story makes less sense from OT laws.

I would also like to point out that Jesus did not die for all sins. He did not die for the sin of unbelief and for blasphemy against the Holy Ghost. So Africans that never heard of Jesus went to hell along with people that blasphemied the Holy Ghost. At least according to scripture.

Quath

 

[Lewis]

Poor, poor Quath, with the hardened heart.

 

[JM]

Christ came to seek and save that which was lost, He saved those who the Father gave Him.

 

[Quath]

Christ came to seek and save that which was lost, He saved those who the Father gave Him.

Were the Africans that never heard of Jesus lost?

Quath

 

[wavy]

Christ came to seek and save that which was lost, He saved those who the Father gave Him.

Were the Africans that never heard of Jesus lost?


This is where I believe (aside from other points) JM may be in error. Messiah did come to seek and save those who were lost, but this deals with Israelite exiles of Ephraim (see Mt. 15:24).

It is his restored, redeemed nation of Israel that is supposed to be an example of the oracles and ways of Yahweh:

Deu 28:9 Yahweh shall establish you a set-apart people to Himself, as He has sworn to you, if you shall keep the commands of Yahweh your God and welcome His ways.
Deu 28:10 And all the peoples of the earth shall see that you are called by the name of Yahweh, and they shall fear you.

Deu 4:5 Behold, I have taught you statutes and ordinances, as Yahweh my God has commanded me, to do them, in the midst of the land where you are going in, to possess it,
Deu 4:6 and you shall keep and do them, for it shall be your wisdom and your understanding before the eyes of the peoples who hear all these statutes. And they shall say, This great nation is a people wise and understanding.
Deu 4:7 For who is a great nation whose God is coming near to them, as Yahweh your God is, in all our calling on Him?
Deu 4:8 And who is a great nation whose statutes and judgments are as righteous as all this Torah which I set before you today?
Deu 4:9 Only, be on guard for yourself and keep your soul carefully, that you do not forget the things which your eyes have seen; and that they not depart from your heart all the days of your life. And you shall make them known to your sons, and to your sons' sons.

 

[Solo]

By the way Mr. Solo, are you ever going to answer the question on Dispensationalism and John 3:16 that I pmed you on and repeatedly challenged you on and you NEVER answered.

Blessings

Thessalonian,
I have answered your question in many posts, but you do not understand. Rather than filleting a red herring, I decided your question to me was leading and unprofitable.
Thanks,
Solo

 

[BJGrolle]

The death and resurrection doesn't make much sense to me. God could have just as easily just decided to forgive everyone. I see no need for human sacrifice. On top of that, it was an illegal sacrifice since Jesus wasn't a Levi priest, he could not perform sacrifices.

What would make sense would have made more sense would to treat Jesus as a scape goat. A scape goat takes the sins of a community and is released (no one has to die). Death was not the only God of the OT forgave sins, so the death story makes less sense from OT laws.

I'm no historian, but look at it this way. If Jesus had been scourged, maybe thrown in a jail cell for awhile, and then set free, what would have been so remarkable in that? Even the crucifixion itself was a common occurrance of the times.

It was the resurrection that made the impact. Even some of Jesus' own disciples didn't believe the things he was saying to them. But when they saw him again, after he had died and lain in the tomb for 3 days, then they had to believe. The proof was right there in front of them!

Jesus wasn't performing the sacrifice. He was the sacrifice.

 

[thessalonian]

By the way Mr. Solo, are you ever going to answer the question on Dispensationalism and John 3:16 that I pmed you on and repeatedly challenged you on and you NEVER answered.

Blessings

Thessalonian,
I have answered your question in many posts, but you do not understand. Rather than filleting a red herring, I decided your question to me was leading and unprofitable.
Thanks,
Solo

In other words you avoided a direct question. Understand? There is nothing to understand with this OSAS system I call Godfare where the sinner believes he is on the easy road to heaven because he says a sinners prayer, where faith is greater than love even though the Bible says differently, where romans 2:4-8 and Matt 25 are ignored, where the one who is cast out in to wailing and nashing of teeth in the parable about the three men given talents has jsut lost his reward, where being severed from Christ means you were never attached and where falling from a tree can be said of the man who walks underneath it. It's godfare. Akin to the welfare system in this country where everyone feels they have an entitlement and sits on their fat butts and do nothing.

Have a nice evening

 

[Solo]

Being born of God is the time in a believers life when the Word of God is believed, the repentance of the sinner occurs, the Spirit of God indwells the believer which is the seal of eternal security until the day of redemption. That which is born of God does not sin, while the flesh is sold under sin. The inward man determines which direction the flesh moves either by the Spirit in obedience to God, or by the flesh which is contrary to the Spirit. The flesh may be destroyed and fall, but that which sins not, and is born of God will be redeemed and joined to the new body, which is incorruptible and immortal, at the coming of Jesus Christ.

This is the doctrine of being born of God, born of the Spirit, born again, that Jesus speaks of in John 3. All unbelievers will be severed from Christ at the judgment. All unbelievers are not born again, nor are they saved. All who have not been born again but believe that they have worked their way into heaven will be told by Jesus to depart from him because he NEVER knew them. Those that Jesus knows whether obedient in the flesh or not, will be saved.

What happens to those that are born again, and they break God's commandments and teach others to do so. Jesus answers that question in Matthew.


17 Think not that I am come to destroy the law, or the prophets: I am not come to destroy, but to fulfil. 18 For verily I say unto you, Till heaven and earth pass, one jot or one tittle shall in no wise pass from the law, till all be fulfilled. 19 Whosoever therefore shall break one of these least commandments, and shall teach men so, he shall be called the least in the kingdom of heaven: but whosoever shall do and teach them, the same shall be called great in the kingdom of heaven. Matthew 5:17-20

They that break the least and teach others to do so will be least in the kingdom of heaven. They are not cast into hell.