The Reality of End Time Bible Prophecy

[DavidT]

Be careful brethren, there is so much wild speculation going on about the end times today, that if we don't stay disciplined in God's Word as written, then confusion about what is actually prophesied to occur at the end of this world will be nothing but confusion by Satan's workers here on earth.

1. God allows Satan's host to confuse us, IF... we do not discipline ourselves in God's Word and listen to Him. So don't ever think that just by our first belief on Lord Jesus and being baptized that we suddenly become free of all that confusion by Satan's host. If that were so, then Christ's Apostles would not have spent so much time in warning us against deception in their New Testament Epistles. So no matter what Church you attend, if you do not know what God's written Word says beforehand, then how will you know The actual Word of God is being taught there? The level of public education in today's time, especially in the majority Christian West, leaves us with no excuse to not get down to a disciplined Bible study for ourselves. And think about it, how many years of public education do most of us have? But then how many can say they have the same amount of study time in God's Word? It's a shame that some have university degrees, 16 to 18 years of education, and don't know any more of their Bible than a child's simple Sunday School lesson structure.

2. I see many of my Christian brethren that are new babes in Christ, immediately jump into the Book of Revelation and think they will understand it. When they find out they cannot, then they start turning to men's traditions and Bible commentaries, filling their minds with all sorts of ideas from men's doctrines, some true, some false. And for today's time, YouTube videos may especially 'seem' to serve to fill the gaps in their minds, but can in reality involve just as much false doctrine as true doctrine. So really, they aren't in any better understanding than when they began.

An understanding throughout all... of God's written Word is required to properly understand our Lord Jesus' Book of Revelation. And that means Bible study starting in Genesis 1 and ending at the last verse of Revelation 22. A healthy discipline in the Books of God's prophets is especially required, because that is the style that the Book of Revelation was written in. Starting around Isaiah 24 forward for a few chapters is a section in the Book of Isaiah some Bible scholars call 'the Apocalypse of Isaiah', simply because it covers some of the end time events of the Book of Revelation. Even Revelation reference to the Babylon Harlot and the "image of the beast" idol are events that also have a history in the Old Testament prophets, especially the Book of Daniel.

3. Many of the New Testament Scriptures also are referenced in Lord Jesus' Book of Revelation. How then will you understand those references to Revelation events contained in The Gospel Books, or the other New Testament Epistles if you haven't yet studied them?

4. Just as with men's strategy to sell newspapers, sensationalism is often the order of the day with some preaching about the end times. And that sensationalism is for the same purpose as selling newspapers, to push many added 'leaven' doctrines into your mind, thus making what God's written Word actually teaches of no effect. When your emotions are being massaged, then know that is a favorite technique used by sensationalists. Those in Christ need 'clarity' with proper interpretation of His Word. To have that 'clarity of mind' in Bible study, it requires self-discipline in His Word.

In Revelation 3, Jesus told those of the Church of Philadelphia that He would keep them from the "hour of temptation" because they KEPT His Word. (And no, that is NOT about a false pre-trib rapture theory which is men's leaven added to God's Word.) Jesus had no rebuke for only 2 Churches, the Church of Smyrna and the Church of Philadelphia. Why were they different? It was because they 'kept' His Word. And that means they did not listen to all the 'leaven' doctrines of men that men add to His Word.

5. In The Gospel, Lord Jesus warned His disciples to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadduccees, and of Herod (an Idumean born of Esau that converted to the Jew's religion). Christ's disciples thought Jesus gave that warning because they had brought no bread with them. Then Jesus reminded them of the miracles of the loaves and fishes, asking them how many 'baskets of fragments' they gathered up afterwards. He was showing them those baskets of fragments, which was way... more than the loaves that first went out, was a symbol for men's 'leaven' doctrines added... to God's Truth. It was like the experiment with people gathered in a circle, and the first one whispers something in the ear of the person next to them, and it continues like that until what was said comes back to the original person. What comes back most often will be a complete distortion of the original. Thus Jesus told us to be careful HOW we hear (Luke 8:18).

6. What is God's Way of doing disciplined Bible study? In 2 Timothy 2:15 Apostle Paul told Timothy to 'study to show thyself approved of God, a workman who need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.' How does one become a 'workman' in any field of study? Through discipline. It doesn't happen in a single day. The idea of 'rightly dividing' involves being able to divide The Word of God according to subject and object, because that can change very quickly in Bible Scripture.

That recommendation by Apostle Paul is actually just a short summary of how God first revealed the proper method of Bible study in Isaiah 28. There God mocked the leaders in Jerusalem in Old Testament times because they didn't discipline theirselves in His Word. So God even used their mocking words how they disliked His Way of Bible study, for they say,

"For precept must be upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little:" (Isaiah 28:10).

In the Hebrew, that mocking with God using their own words, sounds like a mocking song:

"For it is zav lazav
kav lakav, kav lakav
ze'er sham, ze'er sham.
(from E. W. Bullinger's Companion Bible: Notes and Appendices. Biblesoft Formatted Electronic Database Copyright © 2014 by Biblesoft, Inc. All rights reserved.)

Then God's response because they mocked that disciplined method of study...

Isa 28:13-14
13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
KJV

That is how God's Word will be to you too IF... you don't take time to discipline yourself in it like God says there, "precept upon precept", "line upon line", "here a little and there a little". That means to be careful of the 'one verse sensationalists' type preachers. If you are not doing a Book by Book, chapter by chapter, verse by verse, line upon line type Bible study, then you are not applying proper discipline in it according to the Scripture authority.

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

God allows Satan's host to confuse us

So I gotta ask some questions. Where in the Scriptures does it say God has allowed "Satan's host" to confuse anyone? Who are "Satan's host"? Do you believe Satan is some kind of "all powerful being", who is equal to God? And why would God allow Satan to "hold power" over His (God's) Creation?

I have not "studied" the Holy Bible as it is known on this earth today. But the impression I have of that Book, is that it can be very confusing and misleading itself; open to many "interpretations" by men. You can see that in all of the different "Christian denominations" and all the "different" views people have about the "end times".

Why would God allow His Word to be so confusing and misleading? God's "guidebook" to lead His Children to the path of redemption; which can lead men in so many different directions. What possible "purpose" would that serve to God?

 

[DavidT]

So I gotta ask some questions. Where in the Scriptures does it say God has allowed "Satan's host" to confuse anyone? Who are "Satan's host"? Do you believe Satan is some kind of "all powerful being", who is equal to God? And why would God allow Satan to "hold power" over His (God's) Creation?

What kind of joke is that? You mean you are not Biblically aware of how Satan creates confusion? Study more of your Bible and you'll find out, maybe.

Satan is just a 'tool', as God reveals in the Isaiah 10 chapter with using "the Assyrian" title as a type for Satan. God simply uses Satan as "Mine rod of anger", which is against the wicked. And God then shows there when He is done using him, he will cast him into the fire.

Now you asking "why"... God allows Satan to have the power over this present world, is a much deeper question. That involves Lucifer's original rebellion in coveting God's Throne in the old world, drawing a third of the angels to earth in rebellion with him. God ended that old world, and setup this present 2nd world earth age, and ordained His Son Jesus Christ to be born in the flesh to die on the cross, and thus defeat death and the devil. Because of the very first sin, ever, which Lucifer did in the old world, he has been assigned the power of death for over present world. The imperfection of this present world is because of Lucifer having sinned in the old world, including why God placed today's present creation in bondage to corruption (Romans 8).

I have not "studied" the Holy Bible as it is known on this earth today. But the impression I have of that Book, is that it can be very confusing and misleading itself; open to many "interpretations" by men. You can see that in all of the different "Christian denominations" and all the "different" views people have about the "end times".

Those who study God's written Word His Way, while asking Him for understanding, and through Faith on His Son Jesus Christ and getting baptized in His Name, is how He gives the believer the gift of The Holy Spirit to understand His written Word. The Holy Spirit as given through His chosen prophets and Apostles is how God's Word has been written down, for those who believe. Apostle James covers the idea of those who doubt God and His Word, revealing that God will not show the doubter anything. Why should He show the doubter anything, since they obviously doubt because of listening to false ones? (That doubting is the result of Satan's confusion, if you don't yet realize it).

Why would God allow His Word to be so confusing and misleading? God's "guidebook" to lead His Children to the path of redemption; which can lead men in so many different directions. What possible "purpose" would that serve to God?

To see who you will listen to. Simple as that.

The coming time of "great tribulation" is going to do a lot of pruning, with many who don't listen to Him in His Word, but instead they listen to Satan's servants disguised as 'ministers of righteousness' (2 Corinthians 11).

Judg 2:20-22
20 And the anger of the LORD was hot against Israel; and He said, "Because that this people hath transgressed My covenant which I commanded their fathers, and have not hearkened unto My voice;

21 I also will not henceforth drive out any from before them of the nations which Joshua left when he died:

22 That through them I may prove Israel, whether they will keep the way of the LORD to walk therein, as their fathers did keep it, or not."
KJV

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

What kind of joke is that?

I do not joke, I merely want to understand.

Satan is just a 'tool', as God reveals in the Isaiah 10 chapter with using "the Assyrian" title as a type for Satan.

I did not read this in the Book of Isaiah 10; and what does that mean as a, "title as a type of Satan"?

drawing a third of the angels to earth in rebellion with him

I'd like to know where that is clearly stated anywhere in the Scriptures? You can't say you must "take the literal" Word from that Bible; then turn around and present your own "conclusions" of "bits and pieces" of those Scriptures as the true Word.

Since Satan is clearly identified in the Bible; you would think in any other verse if God "meant to say Satan"; then He would clearly state that, and not "beat around the bush".

I do not know you; and do not question your "version" of Christianity. But I would like to understand.

This is the Theology thread; and understanding different viewpoints is important to me as it relates to that Bible. But in your OP, and first response to me; you have quoted "bits and pieces" of various Books. That is something your OP warned against if I understood that correctly.

 

[DavidT]

I do not joke, I merely want to understand.

Understand what? Do your own homework, look up the definition of the word 'babel'.

I did not read this in the Book of Isaiah 10; and what does that mean as a, "title as a type of Satan"?

It's about the idea of titles that God uses as symbols for another.

Isa 30:31-33
31 For through the voice of the LORD shall the Assyrian be beaten down, which smote with a rod.

Is God pointing to the flesh king of Assyria with the above, or maybe to another? Keep reading...

32 And in every place where the grounded staff shall pass, which the LORD shall lay upon him, it shall be with tabrets and harps: and in battles of shaking will He fight with it.

With the above God is pointing to a future battle against that "Assyrian". God even refers to an event of "shaking" involving that future fight, so what's that about? Keep reading...

33 For Tophet is ordained of old; yea, for the king it is prepared; He hath made it deep and large: the pile thereof is fire and much wood; the breath of the LORD, like a stream of brimstone, doth kindle it.
KJV

That Tophet is about the valley of Hinnom, and perpetual burning garbage pit outside the walls of old Jerusalem, and also where at one time Judah fell into pagan worship and sacrificed their children in that fire, and God said such a thing never even entered His mind (Jeremiah 19:5-6). Lord Jesus used that idea of Hinnom in The Gospel for the word "hell" when pointing to the "second death" of being cast into "lake of fire" at the end of Rev.20. Thus "Tophet" here represents that future "lake of fire".

Who then is God pointing to with that "Assyrian" that He has already prepared that Tophet ("lake of fire") for?? We know He cannot be pointing to the flesh king of Assyria, simply because per the above He is showing that symbolic Assyria is one God has already judged and sentenced to perish in that Tophet. As of today, NO flesh-born has been judged and sentenced to that "lake of fire", simply because that Judgment doesn't happen until after Christ's future "thousand years" reign, per the latter part of Rev.20. Only... Satan and his angels have already been judged and sentenced to perish in that future fire; not even Judas who betrayed Lord Jesus has been judged and sentenced yet today.

Thus, that "Assyrian" God is simply using that title as symbolic... for Satan involving that Tophet even of his future destruction in the "lake of fire".

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

It's about the idea of titles that God uses as symbols for another.

In your first response you quoted Isaiah 10; now you quote bits and pieces of Isaiah 30. Where in the Scriptures does God say "he will use one word to mean another"? Where did you get that "idea" from in the Scriptures themselves?

While I have not studied the Holy Bible as it is on this earth today; I have done a lot of research on a variety of "Scriptures" as they are written; in an effort to understand the things I remember. But what I remember, what the Bible says, and my own research don't entirely "line up".

I thought the "Christian thing to do", is to help others understand God's Word; not merely tell them to "do there own research". Is my own "understanding" of God's Word flawed; I have no reason to doubt my own memories. But in understanding the perspective (or viewpoint) of others as they relate to those Scriptures; it might help me to either clarify or "doubt" my own memories if that is what I need in my own life.

 

[DavidT]

I'd like to know where that is clearly stated anywhere in the Scriptures? You can't say you must "take the literal" Word from that Bible; then turn around and present your own "conclusions" of "bits and pieces" of those Scriptures as the true Word.

Rev 12:3-4
3 And there appeared another wonder in heaven; and behold a great red dragon, having seven heads and ten horns, and seven crowns upon his heads.
4 And his tail drew the third part of the stars of heaven, and did cast them to the earth: and the dragon stood before the woman which was ready to be delivered, for to devour her child as soon as it was born.
KJV

Per Rev.12:9, that title "dragon" is simply another title for Satan. The above system of ten horns, seven heads, but only seven crowns, is hard-linked there with that dragon's drawing a third of those "stars" (angels) to earth. That is pointing directly to the time of Satan's original rebellion against coveting God's throne, which actually was the very first sin. Some try to push that beast system into the time of Rev.13:1, but that won't work, because this one here in Rev.12 is tied to Satan drawing a third of those angels in rebellion, and... that beast system only had 'seven crowns' instead of 'ten crowns' like the one for the end in Rev.13:1 is to have.

Since Satan is clearly identified in the Bible; you would think in any other verse if God "meant to say Satan"; then He would clearly state that, and not "beat around the bush".

Read, heed, and study His Word His Way, by The Holy Spirit with asking Him for understanding, and then discipline yourself in it, and you will come to understand. Christ's Apostles had an advantage; Lord Jesus was with them to show them the things in His Word. Those in Christ now are given The Holy Spirit to help us in that. One has to be a believer on Him and His Son first though, and baptized in Christ and then get down to actual disciplined Bible study.

So I would not call Him doing that the act of beating around the bush. God will test us to see who we are listening to and heeding. And for those who doubt His Word, He won't show them anything, like Apostle James said.

I do not know you; and do not question your "version" of Christianity. But I would like to understand.

This is the Theology thread; and understanding different viewpoints is important to me as it relates to that Bible. But in your OP, and first response to me; you have quoted "bits and pieces" of various Books. That is something your OP warned against if I understood that correctly.

My warning was about NOT HAVING STUDIED THE BIBLE in order to check out our teachers. Like how Apostle Paul commended those at Berea because they had God's written Word in their possession, and they opened it up to check out if what Paul was teaching was actually written or not.

That is how I meant my question -- how will you know your preacher/teacher is teaching the real Word of God IF... we have not yet studied God's Word? Surely that's not hard for you to understand.

 

[DavidT]

In your first response you quoted Isaiah 10; now you quote bits and pieces of Isaiah 30. Where in the Scriptures does God say "he will use one word to mean another"? Where did you get that "idea" from in the Scriptures themselves?

What you are asking is a matter involving your general education about the idea of metaphor, analogy, allegory, and parable. You apparently do not understand what those things are, and God's Word uses them a whole... lot. And surely you are aware that Lord Jesus used those tools that exist in ALL languages. If not, then I recommend you go to a public library, and get a book on simple features of a those things within a language.

While I have not studied the Holy Bible as it is on this earth today; I have done a lot of research on a variety of "Scriptures" as they are written; in an effort to understand the things I remember. But what I remember, what the Bible says, and my own research don't entirely "line up".

I thought the "Christian thing to do", is to help others understand God's Word; not merely tell them to "do there own research". Is my own "understanding" of God's Word flawed; I have no reason to doubt my own memories. But in understanding the perspective (or viewpoint) of others as they relate to those Scriptures; it might help me to either clarify or "doubt" my own memories if that is what I need in my own life.

Would I trust you to work on my car if I knew you hadn't done your homework in auto mechanics first? No, I would not trust you. Nor would I trust someone to preach God's Word that has not read and studied it either. So you're kind of being unreasonable and a bit childish with your comments.

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

Would I trust you to work on my car if I knew you hadn't done your homework in auto mechanics first? No, I would not trust you. Nor would I trust someone to preach God's Word that has not read and studied it either. So you're kind of being unreasonable and a bit childish with your comments.

I do apologize if I "seem childish" in my desire to understand; none of "God's Children" should ever be "childish".

Some of the things I remember have nothing to do with the things I was "taught" as a small child in this life. While I have no reason to doubt those memories; I will not try to force any other to accept that truth. But in my own life, at this time; gaining a better understanding of what I remember and how that applies to the "real world" we live in is important to me.

As for asking for specific Bible quotes; I'm sorry you feel that is unreasonable. While Christ did talk in parables; his meaning was generally clear. For God to say one thing, while meaning something different; that is a concept I cannot wrap my head around. I believe God has never tried to mislead or confuse any of us; it is (ordinary) men who have done that since the beginning. Men who sought power over other men and their pennies.

 

[for_his_glory]

Revelation was given to John in visions as prophecies that had their beginnings in the Old Testament, being fulfilled in the New Testament and yet much to be fulfilled in future events before the great and terrible day of the Lords return.

Revelations is given to all nations and tongues that live throughout the whole world as in Jew and Gentile. Israel is mainly mentioned, but not all of Israel is Gods chosen people. Those who are washed in the blood of the Lamb are joined as a branch with Israel as God is the root of that branch and those who are sealed by His Holy Spirit are His own who find favor in Him, Romans 11:11-31. This is why our attention needs to be on those things that are happening in Israel especially Jerusalem as being Gods Holy City.

Within Gods final chastisement on man He continues to call them to repentance and one has to take into consideration during the time of the seven trumpets sounding what God pours out that destroys man will be a third part of every nation simultaneously being destroyed unless they repent and turn back to God. This also includes those who call themselves a Christian, but by name only as they have not Gods Holy Spirit dwelling in them and will also be destroyed, Matthew 7:21.

I have intentionally left out numbering the verses as these revelations given by Jesus to John to write them down were written as many individual letters in chronological order that were carried to the seven Churches in the Roman province of Asia and now revealed to the whole world.

From the very beginning of time starting with Adam man has allowed themselves to lose that Spiritual fellowship with God as Adam did when he fell to temptation through Satan’s deceit. Through the sin of Adams disobedience we have all allowed ourselves to be deceived causing us to fall short of Gods glory and became children of disobedience as we continue to allow Satan to deceive us unaware of his devices. God will chastise his children as a Father that disciplines his children. He only wants the best for them, but many have a rebellious heart that will not heed His warnings and have turned a deaf ear towards Him as they love their own lives unto death and will perish never knowing Gods mercy and grace.

Wars and rumor of wars, nation against nation and kingdoms against kingdoms, famines, pestilences and earthquakes are all results of mans sin as they continue to fall from Gods grace as they become lovers of self, 2 Timothy 3:2-4. The fulfillment of prophecy is in that of Jesus life, death and resurrection that we can reconcile ourselves back to God through His grace before the return of Jesus. Our covenant promise from God is that we will have eternal life with Him, John 10:27, 28, through grace that we can reconcile ourselves back to the Father and live our lives according to His will.
What you are about to read and have revealed to you in these revelations are those things that are yet future compared with that of the past. It has always been kingdom against kingdom and nation against nation. There are only two kingdoms as one is Gods kingdom that is taught in all truths through Gods Holy Spirit and the other a ruling kingdom of Satan who uses a Jezebel spirit that speaks a deceptive word to deceive the nations, Revelation 2:20.

Revelations is full of symbolism that is literal where it needs to be and Spiritual where it needs to define that of the literal. These revelations are given as a warning to those who have yet to accept Jesus as Messiah. Gods chastisements are to draw those back to him in repentance before that door of salvation is closed forever when Jesus returns and Gods true Church is gathered up to be with the Father forever.

The focus in Revelations would seem to center around Israel only and the nations that come against her for this is how John would recognize it to be since all other nations were not yet developed in his time. Revelations is about all of us, Jew and Gentile, past, present and future that by faith keep Gods commandments. We are Gods witnesses that testify of His mercy and grace as we take His word out into the world to those who have ears to hear.

Israel lost her right to be called Gods chosen people, (God did save a faithful remnant), as they fell into idolatry worshiping other gods as they allowed themselves to fall from Gods grace as they followed the lust of their own hearts as they practiced Judaism, 1 Kings 9:1-9. God’s judgment against them led them to be captured, 605 – 537 B.C., by Nebuchadnezzar and taken into Babylon for seventy years while Nebuchadnezzar’s army killed many Jews in Judah and Jerusalem destroying the whole city of Jerusalem including the first Temple that was built through King Solomon’s reign in Jerusalem.

The second Temple was built under Ezra’s leadership and Israel continued practicing Judaism and their Temple was desecrated as part of an effort to impose Greek-oriented culture and customs on the entire population. Roman rule refurbished the temple as Herod, Romans vassal king, rules the land of Israel. In 70 A.D. the Temple is once again destroyed. The Temple Mount was taken over in 691 A.D. as the Arab nation built the Dome of the Rock and there has not been any other Temple built since that time on the original Temple Mount.

God gave Israel 490 years to repent. They were set free from Babylon when the Medes and Persian conquered Babylon (Chaldeans) around 538 B.C. They were allowed back in the land and to rebuild the city of Jerusalem, however, they still did not repent for their sin of idol worshiping and they continued to receive punishment from God as the kingdom was taken away and eventually taken over by the Roman Empire. Malachi Chapter 1-4.

The 490 years were up and many of the Jews not only did not repent but they killed the very Messiah they had been waiting for as well as in 24 A.D. they made an opened display of rejecting the Gospel message as they stoned Stephen being the final messenger that was sent to give them their last chance to repent. The Jews were now rejected as God’s chosen people and were no different from the Gentiles as from that time forth each individual, Jew and Gentile has to make their own decision to accept or reject Jesus as Lord and Savior, John 3:3-7; Romans 10:9, 10.

The disciples were called first to preach to the Jews, Matthew 10:6, and Paul was called to preach to the Gentiles, Acts 22:21. God has saved a remnant out of the twelve tribes of Israel even up to a thousand generations that have always been faithful to Him, Exodus 20:1-6; Psalms 105:7, 8, but those who have yet to accept Jesus as Messiah God will continue to cut them off.

2 Peter 2:9 The Lord knoweth how to deliver the godly out of temptations, and to reserve the unjust unto the day of judgment to be punished:
2 Peter 3:9 The Lord is not slack concerning his promise, as some men count slackness; but is longsuffering to us-ward, not willing that any should perish, but that all should come to repentance.

The Disciples who sat with Jesus on the Mt. of Olives in Matthew 24:3 asked Him three questions, when shall these things be, what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? These three questions are now revealed to us as the Spirit of God has revealed them to John who told him to write these visions down and give them to the Church for instruction and understanding.

May God bless you as you allow your Spiritual eyes and ears to be opened as the Holy Spirit reveals all truths and gives us wisdom and understanding of the word of God. We are not to fear that which has to come, but be prepared for when it does so we will not be taken as a thief in the night, but to be a faithful watchman waiting patiently for that great and terrible day of the Lords return.

​

 

[Josef]

Be careful brethren, there is so much wild speculation going on about the end times today, that if we don't stay disciplined in God's Word as written, then confusion about what is actually prophesied to occur at the end of this world will be nothing but confusion by Satan's workers here on earth.

1. God allows Satan's host to confuse us, IF... we do not discipline ourselves in God's Word and listen to Him. So don't ever think that just by our first belief on Lord Jesus and being baptized that we suddenly become free of all that confusion by Satan's host. If that were so, then Christ's Apostles would not have spent so much time in warning us against deception in their New Testament Epistles. So no matter what Church you attend, if you do not know what God's written Word says beforehand, then how will you know The actual Word of God is being taught there? The level of public education in today's time, especially in the majority Christian West, leaves us with no excuse to not get down to a disciplined Bible study for ourselves. And think about it, how many years of public education do most of us have? But then how many can say they have the same amount of study time in God's Word? It's a shame that some have university degrees, 16 to 18 years of education, and don't know any more of their Bible than a child's simple Sunday School lesson structure.

2. I see many of my Christian brethren that are new babes in Christ, immediately jump into the Book of Revelation and think they will understand it. When they find out they cannot, then they start turning to men's traditions and Bible commentaries, filling their minds with all sorts of ideas from men's doctrines, some true, some false. And for today's time, YouTube videos may especially 'seem' to serve to fill the gaps in their minds, but can in reality involve just as much false doctrine as true doctrine. So really, they aren't in any better understanding than when they began.

An understanding throughout all... of God's written Word is required to properly understand our Lord Jesus' Book of Revelation. And that means Bible study starting in Genesis 1 and ending at the last verse of Revelation 22. A healthy discipline in the Books of God's prophets is especially required, because that is the style that the Book of Revelation was written in. Starting around Isaiah 24 forward for a few chapters is a section in the Book of Isaiah some Bible scholars call 'the Apocalypse of Isaiah', simply because it covers some of the end time events of the Book of Revelation. Even Revelation reference to the Babylon Harlot and the "image of the beast" idol are events that also have a history in the Old Testament prophets, especially the Book of Daniel.

3. Many of the New Testament Scriptures also are referenced in Lord Jesus' Book of Revelation. How then will you understand those references to Revelation events contained in The Gospel Books, or the other New Testament Epistles if you haven't yet studied them?

4. Just as with men's strategy to sell newspapers, sensationalism is often the order of the day with some preaching about the end times. And that sensationalism is for the same purpose as selling newspapers, to push many added 'leaven' doctrines into your mind, thus making what God's written Word actually teaches of no effect. When your emotions are being massaged, then know that is a favorite technique used by sensationalists. Those in Christ need 'clarity' with proper interpretation of His Word. To have that 'clarity of mind' in Bible study, it requires self-discipline in His Word.

In Revelation 3, Jesus told those of the Church of Philadelphia that He would keep them from the "hour of temptation" because they KEPT His Word. (And no, that is NOT about a false pre-trib rapture theory which is men's leaven added to God's Word.) Jesus had no rebuke for only 2 Churches, the Church of Smyrna and the Church of Philadelphia. Why were they different? It was because they 'kept' His Word. And that means they did not listen to all the 'leaven' doctrines of men that men add to His Word.

5. In The Gospel, Lord Jesus warned His disciples to beware of the leaven of the Pharisees and Sadduccees, and of Herod (an Idumean born of Esau that converted to the Jew's religion). Christ's disciples thought Jesus gave that warning because they had brought no bread with them. Then Jesus reminded them of the miracles of the loaves and fishes, asking them how many 'baskets of fragments' they gathered up afterwards. He was showing them those baskets of fragments, which was way... more than the loaves that first went out, was a symbol for men's 'leaven' doctrines added... to God's Truth. It was like the experiment with people gathered in a circle, and the first one whispers something in the ear of the person next to them, and it continues like that until what was said comes back to the original person. What comes back most often will be a complete distortion of the original. Thus Jesus told us to be careful HOW we hear (Luke 8:18).

6. What is God's Way of doing disciplined Bible study? In 2 Timothy 2:15 Apostle Paul told Timothy to 'study to show thyself approved of God, a workman who need not be ashamed, rightly dividing the Word of Truth.' How does one become a 'workman' in any field of study? Through discipline. It doesn't happen in a single day. The idea of 'rightly dividing' involves being able to divide The Word of God according to subject and object, because that can change very quickly in Bible Scripture.

That recommendation by Apostle Paul is actually just a short summary of how God first revealed the proper method of Bible study in Isaiah 28. There God mocked the leaders in Jerusalem in Old Testament times because they didn't discipline theirselves in His Word. So God even used their mocking words how they disliked His Way of Bible study, for they say,



In the Hebrew, that mocking with God using their own words, sounds like a mocking song:



Then God's response because they mocked that disciplined method of study...

Isa 28:13-14
13 But the word of the LORD was unto them precept upon precept, precept upon precept; line upon line, line upon line; here a little, and there a little; that they might go, and fall backward, and be broken, and snared, and taken.
14 Wherefore hear the word of the LORD, ye scornful men, that rule this people which is in Jerusalem.
KJV

That is how God's Word will be to you too IF... you don't take time to discipline yourself in it like God says there, "precept upon precept", "line upon line", "here a little and there a little". That means to be careful of the 'one verse sensationalists' type preachers. If you are not doing a Book by Book, chapter by chapter, verse by verse, line upon line type Bible study, then you are not applying proper discipline in it according to the Scripture authority.

Hey All,
Truth, I did not read all of your post. I stopped at the "God allows confusion" part. This strikes me as incorrect.

1 Corinthians 14:33 For God is not the author of confusion, but of peace, as in all churches of the saints.

If God is not the author of confusion, then He cannot be the cause of confusion. Also confusion seems to be at odds with the truth; of which we know that God is absolute truth. God does not need to use confusion to teach a lesson. Confusion comes when we ignore the truth.

If God is not the author of confusion, then who is?
I believe you will find him in Genesis 3.

Keep walking everybody.
May God bless,
Taz

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

Truth, I did not read all of your post. I stopped at the "God allows confusion" part. This strikes me as incorrect.

Agreed

If God is not the author of confusion, then He cannot be the cause of confusion. Also confusion seems to be at odds with the truth; of which we know that God is absolute truth. God does not need to use confusion to teach a lesson. Confusion comes when we ignore the truth.

I do agree with this statement in part; but God is actually all things. God is the literal Master of all Creation; nothing exist without His express permission. That being said; God has never wanted to confuse any of us, the confusion in the hearts of men actually come from other men. As the OP did mention, you cannot trust all these preachers to "guide you to the Light"; whether they've "studied" that Bible or not.

If 5 different people who are "guided by the Holy Spirit" read a single chapter (much less Book); and they each come to a different conclusion after reading the same thing; not all of them can be correct in their interpretation. And the more each of them try to force me to accept "their view" guided by the "Holy Spirit"; the less inclined I am to even considering any of it.

 

[electedbyHim]

Agreed


I do agree with this statement in part; but God is actually all things. God is the literal Master of all Creation; nothing exist without His express permission. That being said; God has never wanted to confuse any of us, the confusion in the hearts of men actually come from other men. As the OP did mention, you cannot trust all these preachers to "guide you to the Light"; whether they've "studied" that Bible or not.

If 5 different people who are "guided by the Holy Spirit" read a single chapter (much less Book); and they each come to a different conclusion after reading the same thing; not all of them can be correct in their interpretation. And the more each of them try to force me to accept "their view" guided by the "Holy Spirit"; the less inclined I am to even considering any of it.

The problem is that some of those 5 people will believe their own thoughts are Holy Spirit guiding them.

I would say that 1 out of 5 people are truly saved. Just my thoughts.

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

The problem is that some of those 5 people will believe their own thoughts are Holy Spirit guiding them.

I would say that 1 out of 5 people are truly saved. Just my thoughts.

All of those people would be certain "their view" was the right one. The OP is about the end time prophecy in the Bible, which covers a wide range of Books, chapter and verse (not just Revelations). While there is a specific thread for "end times"; I'm more than happy to discuss all the theology of all the Scriptures involved. And, trying to understand how others come to some of the conclusions they do; taking bits and pieces of the Bible to make claims that aren't actually "written" in the Bible.

Satan cannot be all things; the dragon, all the beast identified, the antiChrist, the False Prophet and all the rest. As for God saying one thing, while meaning something different; that would be deceitful, and I will never accept God deceiving any of us. My Father placed mankind on this earth for a purpose; and if all He planned was to deceive us; that just does not make sense.

 

[TrevorL]

Greetings DavidT,

Be careful brethren, there is so much wild speculation going on about the end times today, that if we don't stay disciplined in God's Word as written, then confusion about what is actually prophesied to occur at the end of this world will be nothing but confusion by Satan's workers here on earth.

I was interested in reading the whole thread so far, and can endorse a lot of the things you say and warn about, and some of the interaction by others has also been interesting and helpful. But in the outcome, when you individually started to give your understanding of various concepts, I felt that you had missed the mark. I will only mention one instance, and that is your interpretation of "the Assyrian".

Thus, that "Assyrian" God is simply using that title as symbolic... for Satan involving that Tophet even of his future destruction in the "lake of fire".

You have taken a number of steps to arrive at this conclusion, and without giving my own understanding of this, your view is possibly one of the very many speculations on the identity of the latter-day Assyrian, and I disagree wholeheartedly with your conclusion.

Kind regards
Trevor

 

[DavidT]

I do apologize if I "seem childish" in my desire to understand; none of "God's Children" should ever be "childish".

Some of the things I remember have nothing to do with the things I was "taught" as a small child in this life. While I have no reason to doubt those memories; I will not try to force any other to accept that truth. But in my own life, at this time; gaining a better understanding of what I remember and how that applies to the "real world" we live in is important to me.

As for asking for specific Bible quotes; I'm sorry you feel that is unreasonable. While Christ did talk in parables; his meaning was generally clear. For God to say one thing, while meaning something different; that is a concept I cannot wrap my head around. I believe God has never tried to mislead or confuse any of us; it is (ordinary) men who have done that since the beginning. Men who sought power over other men and their pennies.

If you believe on Jesus Christ as your Savior, then you're doing alright, but now that you have heard and believed The Gospel, it's now time to get down to disciplined Bible study, asking Him for understanding. All I'm doing is planting seeds. Only The Father and His Son can water them and make them grow into understanding. So seek Him, not men.

 

[DavidT]

Hey All,
Truth, I did not read all of your post. I stopped at the "God allows confusion" part. This strikes me as incorrect.

You skipped the 'condition' for that confusion which I pointed to. It is IF... we allow it. God will let you be deceived IF you do not listen to Him and His Son. So 1 Cor.14:33 ONLY applies in Churches that keep HIS Word, and not the leaven of men.

So you should have learned about that from Bible Scripture all the way back in Judges 2 & 3 when God was angry with the children of Israel because they fell away by not heeding His commandments, which means they were listening to confusion. And that is why God told them then that He would leave those crept in foreigners to dwell among them who caused the children of Israel to fall into pagan worship. So you going to try and claim God won't allow you to fall away if that's what you want? Yeah, He will allow you to fall away and be deceived if you forget Him and His Son.

 

[hawkman]

For all in this thread .
TOS1.3: Use self control and focus on reconcilliation when discussing differences. Address the issue, not the person. Do not make derogatory personal remarks or you will be removed from the thread.

 

[Enlightenedtruth]

You skipped the 'condition' for that confusion which I pointed to. It is IF... we allow it. God will let you be deceived IF you do not listen to Him and His Son. So 1 Cor.14:33 ONLY applies in Churches that keep HIS Word, and not the leaven of men.

So you should have learned about that from Bible Scripture all the way back in Judges 2 & 3 when God was angry with the children of Israel because they fell away by not heeding His commandments, which means they were listening to confusion. And that is why God told them then that He would leave those crept in foreigners to dwell among them who caused the children of Israel to fall into pagan worship. So you going to try and claim God won't allow you to fall away if that's what you want? Yeah, He will allow you to fall away and be deceived if you forget Him and His Son.

First I would point to 1 Cor. 14:10, the voices of others do hold meaning. Good or bad; they all can have worth (to learn).

10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.

In reading all of chapter 14 of 1 Cor.; I get a slightly different meaning from the "entire context"; where it speaks of men giving "prophesy" in spreading God's Word.

For Judges 2 & 3; the Children of the Tribes were given the law clearly; it was a choice they made to ignore God's Law, how that "means they were listening to confusion"; I do not understand? I would assume the Israelites were listening to their tribal leaders, and religious leaders at that time; where again the confusion would have been the result of "men".

 

[DavidT]

First I would point to 1 Cor. 14:10, the voices of others do hold meaning. Good or bad; they all can have worth (to learn).

10 There are, it may be, so many kinds of voices in the world, and none of them is without signification.

In reading all of chapter 14 of 1 Cor.; I get a slightly different meaning from the "entire context"; where it speaks of men giving "prophesy" in spreading God's Word.

For Judges 2 & 3; the Children of the Tribes were given the law clearly; it was a choice they made to ignore God's Law, how that "means they were listening to confusion"; I do not understand? I would assume the Israelites were listening to their tribal leaders, and religious leaders at that time; where again the confusion would have been the result of "men".

What do you think the people that began building the tower of Babel had been listening to? How did that work out for them?

The 1 Corinthians 14:33 verse is about not allowing the confusion of many different speakers with different languages to get up and speak during Church service. That would be 'confusion'. The 'type' of confusion I'm talking about is about Satan's deceptions.

You guys do realize there are different definitions for the word 'confusion', right?