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The OP implied a specific model for us...and the answer is the model is correct...of course man knew of laws that GOd had made, some were inherent in our nature from the beginning, but according to the Bible (which I believe is the truth) the "10 Commandments law" and the command for the children of Israel to "keep the Sabbath" was not given until Moses. It was a covenant given to them and the Sabbath was to be kept by them perpetually in all their generations (still binding to this day if they keep this covenant which of course neither they nor the modern Sabbatarians do according to Torah)...and no, TOG, I do not think it MEANS they must stay in their house but it does not say they are to go to one place together like the tabernacle in those days (synagogue after the captivity) or a Church building in our time to hold a corporate worship service (though is you choose to honor God in this way that is fine. I will not judge you on what day you keep! The Lord be with you...

brother Paul
 
sourberry said:
It is not about you or me, Jason.

It is about our father Adam, and how he failed Sabbath. Adam was to obey Sabbath, in a perfect way, and failed, and later a commandment was issued to jews, to obey Sabbath. They failed too, for two reasons, because Adam failed, and because the commandment did not make any man perfect.
Click to expand...

Can you provide any scripture that says Adam was supposed to keep the 7th day Sabbath? Or that he was supposed to but failed? Because none of my Bibles or the pre-JPS "traditional" Masoretic contains such verses
 
brother Paul said:
Can you provide any scripture that says Adam was supposed to keep the 7th day Sabbath? Or that he was supposed to but failed? Because none of my Bibles or the pre-JPS "traditional" Masoretic contains such verses
Click to expand...

What do you mean when saying "was supposed to keep" in relation to Adam?

This sounds to me as an earthly expression that is supposed to reflect a heavenly relation. However Adam was in the Kingdom of Heaven at that time, were he did not need to "in the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread". You see?
 
brother Paul said:
The OP implied a specific model for us...
Click to expand...

You mean we build our own models and our own rules, and there are 1000s denominations out there, that we call christianity?

John the Baptist did not ask you to draw models. Instead, he asked you for one thing. He asked for a repent. And Jesus did not ask you to draw a model, he asked you for a repent.

Sabbath is the holly of hollies, if you want. Jesus is Sabbath, if you want, and the lord of Sabbath. Our heavenly Father blessed the seventh day, and sanctified it.

Anyone who dishonors Sabbath also dishonors heavenly Father. Sabbath is a sacred thing, as I think. We need to write on our hearts that we honor everything that our heavenly Father blessed and sanctified, because nothing He blesses can be unblessed, and nothing He sanctifies can be unsanctified, for the rest of our lifes, for eternity.
 
sourberry said:
The word is created that way, so that we learn how the Heavenly Kingdom works, as I think.

Do you ask your kids to worship you? The answer is not straight forward, because if you demand that kids listen to you, and not to somebody else, then you demand them to worship you.

You issue commandments to your children, however as your kids grow, you expect them to act on their own, without commanding "step left" and "step right". And as they become adults, you no longer command. They know your will, and you know they know your will.

***

What is the tree of knowing good and evil? Good - staying with Father. Evil - falling out. Adam and Eva were in Eden, and that was good, but they did not know that it was good, so the fruit of knowledge was tempting. So they now learn what it is to live in the cursed world. Right?

With love.
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God is a dad, he is also a husband, and son,brother, friend.

you missed the point. uhm, yeah, I may have issues with my dad at times, but if my dad asks me to leave because he simply wants me to because he is tired and wants to rest. how will I know unless he says hey son, I love but im tired I need rest. if I ignored that that is a violation of god's command to Honor them all the days of their life. sorry, I have had it out with my dad, I have told him to f*** off, you did me wrong, you failed to teach me this or that. yet when I got saved and read the command to honor them. God said you need to forgive him. I did, he didn't change at that time but I prayed and while our relationship will never be as it should its where it should be now. sure I can be a but, and so can he be one.

I know more then my dad on some things, yet I choose to submit to him. its hard to honor my dad in that I have done more things then he has. I have been to places he hasn't. but that is the command.i cant go to my dad on some issues. yet those actions are a decision of mine to honor HIM and my dad. a command to honor my dad was indeed written there so that I would do what I did. it was after I was saved. and it wasn't the day of my repentance.it was about a year that I began to see I need to repent and pray.
 
sourberry said:
What do you mean when saying "was supposed to keep" in relation to Adam?

This sounds to me as an earthly expression that is supposed to reflect a heavenly relation. However Adam was in the Kingdom of Heaven at that time, were he did not need to "in the sweat of thy face shalt thou eat bread". You see?
Click to expand...

No I don't! Sorry! You said first that Adam and Eva were supposed to keep/observe/practice (whatever the word choice they all mean the same) the Sabbath but failed...I am asking where you got that???

Also you said You mean we build our own models and our own rules, and there are 1000s denominations out there, that we call christianity?

I did not say any such thing...go back to the OP and read what it asks...the Poster established a suggested model that some believe (and some do believe that)...no one is building a model from their own rules...this thread is about the OP (I hope!)...I never asked for a built a model of anything...the word was used figuratively to express the belief expressed by the original post...
 
Quick question for our on-board Sabbatarians? Which of the seven days in a row that God had Israel march around Jericho was the Sabbath and why did they not stop to Shabbat (rest)?
 
brother Paul said:
Quick question for our on-board Sabbatarians? Which of the seven days in a row that God had Israel march around Jericho was the Sabbath and why did they not stop to Shabbat (rest)?
Click to expand...

Not an on-Sabbatarian, however it would be sundown of Saturday to sundown on Friday.
 
Okay...we'll try this...
Gen 2....rest:
H7673
שׁבת
shâbath
shaw-bath'
A primitive root; to repose, that is, desist from exertion; used in many implied relations (causatively, figuratively or specifically): - (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep (sabbath), suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.

Exodus 5:5
rest:

H7673
שׁבת
shâbath
shaw-bath'
A primitive root; to repose, that is, desist from exertion; used in many implied relations (causatively, figuratively or specifically): - (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep (sabbath), suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.

Exodus 16:23
rest of the Holy Sabbath

H7677
שׁבּתון
shabbâthôn
shab-baw-thone'
From H7676; a sabbatism or special holiday: - rest, sabbath.

above connects it to 7676
H7676
שׁבּת
shabbâth
shab-bawth'
Intensive from H7673; intermission, that is, (specifically) the Sabbath: - (+ every) sabbath.

and above connects it right back to 7673

H7673
שׁבת
shâbath
shaw-bath'
A primitive root; to repose, that is, desist from exertion; used in many implied relations (causatively, figuratively or specifically): - (cause to, let, make to) cease, celebrate, cause (make) to fail, keep (sabbath), suffer to be lacking, leave, put away (down), (make to) rest, rid, still, take away.

Right back to Genesis..."rest"

So...this is definitely something for me to look at thoroughly and more prayerfully
 
Yes, please do and please consider the following…

Rested – Shaw-vath – is to cease, desist, rest

Gesenius Hebrew Grammar says, “to take rest” as in to sit down, to sit still


Sabbath – shabbath – means “the seventh day”, from the Syraic cognate root for “week”

Gesenius Hebrew Grammar says …“the Sabbath”, the seventh day of the week


Shaw-vath is the primitive root but having the same three letter root, does not make it the same word (only a term related in some way). Or one word stemming from an earlier root, does not make it the same word. Its meaning is determined by its grammatical place, context, vowels, pronunciation, etc.,

Example: Take the words Shalom and shelem (same three letter root - Shin Lamed Mem)

Shalom means wholeness, completion, peace as in a state or condition...

Shelem refers to a completion as in a transaction…the l’shelem is one who completes a transaction (Shalom has little to do with it unless both parties are satisfied and treated/receiving justice)

I can have shalom, because of my l’shelem, Y’shua Ha’Moschiach, YHVH- Tzedenu..shalom with God, the shalom of God, and shalom with my neighbors
 
In the past, I thought that possessing some knowledge of languages, i.e. greek, hebrew or latin allows to dig deeper into what is commonly regarded as scriptures... and I no longer think that way. The greatest revelation you can get comes from above, and our Father has so many ways to open somebody's mind.

You do not even need to be able to read...

With love.
 
sourberry said:
In the past, I thought that possessing some knowledge of languages, i.e. greek, hebrew or latin allows to dig deeper into what is commonly regarded as scriptures... and I no longer think that way. The greatest revelation you can get comes from above, and our Father has so many ways to open somebody's mind.

You do not even need to be able to read...

With love.
Click to expand...

So true sourberry...many wonderful Christians and martyrs could not read...
 
sourberry said:
In the past, I thought that possessing some knowledge of languages, i.e. greek, hebrew or latin allows to dig deeper into what is commonly regarded as scriptures... and I no longer think that way. The greatest revelation you can get comes from above, and our Father has so many ways to open somebody's mind.

You do not even need to be able to read...

With love.
Click to expand...

Oh absolutely.
The Holy Spirit is what I depend on ...I usually use the strong's as a last resort
He must come first. I've received more leading from His spirit than from the H and G. I can only say that if the Strong's confirm where He has led me in the Spirit...that is confirmation to me.

However, I didn't not pray over this thread first --I confess...
So, as I said in my previous post...I must pray about this.

We can consider that He is the same yesterday, today and always.
I believe that what always was will always be...

Blessings in Christ Jesus..
 
brother Paul said:
Yes, please do and please consider the following…

Rested – Shaw-vath – is to cease, desist, rest

Gesenius Hebrew Grammar says, “to take rest” as in to sit down, to sit still


Sabbath – shabbath – means “the seventh day”, from the Syraic cognate root for “week”

Gesenius Hebrew Grammar says …“the Sabbath”, the seventh day of the week


Shaw-vath is the primitive root but having the same three letter root, does not make it the same word (only a term related in some way). Or one word stemming from an earlier root, does not make it the same word. Its meaning is determined by its grammatical place, context, vowels, pronunciation, etc.,

Example: Take the words Shalom and shelem (same three letter root - Shin Lamed Mem)

Shalom means wholeness, completion, peace as in a state or condition...

Shelem refers to a completion as in a transaction…the l’shelem is one who completes a transaction (Shalom has little to do with it unless both parties are satisfied and treated/receiving justice)

I can have shalom, because of my l’shelem, Y’shua Ha’Moschiach, YHVH- Tzedenu..shalom with God, the shalom of God, and shalom with my neighbors
Click to expand...
source on shalom. that is a greeting said daily by Hebrews to each other. is short for shalom alechum. may god's peace be upon you. it means as you do torah may god give you blessing and rest.peace with him in that you are holy.though one can take that way with jesus statement my peace I give unto, but again to get that one had to be right with god.
 
reba said:
You guys are in the Focus on the Scripture forum...
Drop the personal remarks.

Post #46
Click to expand...

I don't know how to say it better. Be sure to make the effort to keep the focus on Scripture and away from each other.

~Sparrowhawke
 
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