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The Sabbath day and its origin.

http://peculiartruth7.wordpress.com/2010/11/05/origin-of-the-sabbath-day/

Heres the claim. The Sabbath started with Moses. First the idea was proposed that the Sabbath with the rest of the ten commandments were given for the very first time at Mt. Sinai. Before this, supposedly, no one knew about the ten commandment law of God.
thou shalt no murder was in the account of cain and able passed orally or by targum to moses. adultery, the same, and also lying, theft,
 
http://peculiartruth7.wordpress.com/2010/11/05/origin-of-the-sabbath-day/

Heres the claim. The Sabbath started with Moses. First the idea was proposed that the Sabbath with the rest of the ten commandments were given for the very first time at Mt. Sinai. Before this, supposedly, no one knew about the ten commandment law of God.

Does one observe the Saturday, sixth day Sabbath?
If one does not, then it is my belief one is not in accordance with the 10 commandments. God gave a very intensive description of how one is to abide by each and every one of these commandments, there are 603 of them.

That said, the 10 are a good guideline for anyone to study but are not detailed enough to cover what they mean after the Cross.
I believe several of the 603 are also good guidelines for anyone to try to understand the intent of God's law to all mankind.
 
http://peculiartruth7.wordpress.com/2010/11/05/origin-of-the-sabbath-day/

Heres the claim. The Sabbath started with Moses. First the idea was proposed that the Sabbath with the rest of the ten commandments were given for the very first time at Mt. Sinai. Before this, supposedly, no one knew about the ten commandment law of God.
22 Now on the sixth day they gathered twice as much bread, two omers for each one. When all the leaders of the congregation came and told Moses,23 then he said to them, “This is what the Lord meant: Tomorrow is a sabbath observance, a holy sabbath to the Lord.

29 See, the Lord has given you the sabbath; therefore He gives you bread for two days on the sixth day. Remain every man in his place; let no man go out of his place on the seventh day.”30 So the people rested on the seventh day.
" (Exodus 16:22-23,29-30 NASB)

The Ten Commandments were given at Mt. Sinai four chapters later.

What I've noticed is somewhere in the shuffle, the manna lost it's significance in our Sabbath discussions. We are commanded to rest from our labors to live because the true manna from heaven has come down.
 
Well now let me start by saying I have no problem with Christians gathering for worship on the 7th day Sabbath. I have been to 7th day Baptist and 7th day Adventist services.

But first...lets go to Genesis 2...the word "shabbat" doe not occur there...the Lord "shaw-vath" that is He ceased and desisted from His work of Creation on this day.
This passage says NOTHING about man or about anything people should do.

Secondly, Jethro has been kind enough to provide us with half of what we need to gain insight into the point I will make in my conclusions...Yes Exodus 16:29 tells us, "...let every man remain in his place; let no man go out from his place on the 7th day." (pre-JPS Masoretic literal)

Now also read Leviticus 23:3 where regarding the 7th day Sabbath it says "Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, a holy convocation; you shall do no work on it: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings."

So in the first passage it says let no man go out of HIS PLACE on the 7th day...and in Leviticus it says it is to be the Sabbath "IN ALL YOUR DWELLINGS"

the his in 16:29 qualifies the place of the man who is observing correctly....in HIS place...notice it does not say to leave your place and go gather together in some other place for corporate worship...

And in Leviticus 23 we read IN (inside of, within) ALL (plural, the many places) YOUR (personal, describing where these places are) DWELLINGS (again a plural referring to their homes or tents if they are travelling).

So nowhere in the Torah does God command His people to go to some place together to corporately worship Him...and nobody, not Moses or Aaron or any Israelite EVER do this until after the Babylonian Captivity where the custom was created and then practiced after until it became the manner of the Jewish (only part of the Israelites) people as a cultural tradition. That's point 1!

Number 2 is that when we read Deuteronomy 5:2,3 we find that the 10 Commandments were a covenant agreement with Israel given at Horeb (Sinai in Arabia). the passage says "The Lord our God made a covenant with US in Horeb. The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day."

So this covenant agreement (the 10 Commandments) was made between God (YHVH) and the children of Israel and to no one else. Not even their fathers (Jacob, Isaac, Abraham, Noah, Enoch, Seth, Adam) were bound to this agreement and NO SCRIPTURE demonstrates them so doing.

Now I expect..."Well Jesus and the Apostles did it so should we...". But it must be known and admitted that before the Babylonian Captivity this was never the practice according to God's commandments (though they were Israelites this was a Jewish tradition) so we find it saying Jesus attended the synagogue on the Sabbath "as was His custom" and after his manner (cultural tradition) Paul also did this...

Now they also "as was their custom" celebrated the feast of dedication (again not Torah) and in accordance with Torah as Rabbis Jesus and Paul wore the Tzit Tzit...so if the reasoning that because it was their tradition is why we also should then we must at once begin celebrating Chanukah and preparing our Pastors to where the proper robes...this is an absurd argument...

Finally I find most 7th day Adventists tie Genesis 2 to Exodus 12 which is an error for two reasons...one as I already pointed out is that Gen 2 merely reflects the ceasing from action on God's part...a particular action (for He never slumbers or sleeps and requires no rest)...nothing here about what man should do or does...the second error is in the assumption of days...the calendar from Genesis ceases in Exodus 12 and YHVH Himself commands Moses that the day He spoke to him was a new 1st of all days in a new 1st of all months...never before utilized or else the word "new" makes God a liar (God forbid)

When God tells Moses (and we do not know on what weekday He spoke to him) "And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt saying, This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you", God changes the times. The first day of this NEW month (Nisan) was the new first day they were to begin counting 7 days...so the 7th day Sabbath given at Horeb has nothing to do with (zero, zilch) the shaw-vath of Genesis 2...

I will leave you with this for starters..all that I said is verifiable, word based, and true...although I will expect a coming firestorm...

I would like to ask any who disagrees, to please produce Torah which commands people to gather together in one place for corporate worship on the 7th day...I say since there is none we are not bound to do so...but if it is your custom that is fine (it is not mine)

In His love

brother Paul
 
if they did the jews wouldn't need a reminder that the failure to do so would have a death penalty.
 
But first...lets go to Genesis 2...the word "shabbat" doe not occur there...the Lord "shaw-vath" that is He ceased and desisted from His work of Creation on this day.
This passage says NOTHING about man or about anything people should do.

No, but we are later told that that is the reason we should rest on the 7th day.
Remember the Sabbath day, to keep it holy. Six days you shall labor, and do all your work, but the seventh day is a Sabbath to the Lord your God. On it you shall not do any work, you, or your son, or your daughter, your male servant, or your female servant, or your livestock, or the sojourner who is within your gates. For in six days the Lord made heaven and earth, the sea, and all that is in them, and rested on the seventh day. Therefore the Lord blessed the Sabbath day and made it holy. (Ex. 20::8-11 ESV)​

Secondly, Jethro has been kind enough to provide us with half of what we need to gain insight into the point I will make in my conclusions...Yes Exodus 16:29 tells us, "...let every man remain in his place; let no man go out from his place on the 7th day." (pre-JPS Masoretic literal)

Now also read Leviticus 23:3 where regarding the 7th day Sabbath it says "Six days shall work be done: but the seventh day is the sabbath of rest, a holy convocation; you shall do no work on it: it is the sabbath of the LORD in all your dwellings."

So in the first passage it says let no man go out of HIS PLACE on the 7th day...and in Leviticus it says it is to be the Sabbath "IN ALL YOUR DWELLINGS"

the his in 16:29 qualifies the place of the man who is observing correctly....in HIS place...notice it does not say to leave your place and go gather together in some other place for corporate worship...

Doesn't it? The very verse you quote tells us to have corporate worship on the Sabbath. What do you think a "holy convocation" is?

And in Leviticus 23 we read IN (inside of, within) ALL (plural, the many places) YOUR (personal, describing where these places are) DWELLINGS (again a plural referring to their homes or tents if they are travelling).

Are you sure that meant they weren't to go outside their homes? Could it just be a way of saying "wherever you are"? If they're not allowed to go outside their homes, how are they supposed to have a holy convocation?

So nowhere in the Torah does God command His people to go to some place together to corporately worship Him...and nobody, not Moses or Aaron or any Israelite EVER do this until after the Babylonian Captivity where the custom was created and then practiced after until it became the manner of the Jewish (only part of the Israelites) people as a cultural tradition. That's point 1!

See above. Point 1 doesn't work because of only reading half the verse.

Number 2 is that when we read Deuteronomy 5:2,3 we find that the 10 Commandments were a covenant agreement with Israel given at Horeb (Sinai in Arabia). the passage says "The Lord our God made a covenant with US in Horeb. The Lord made not this covenant with our fathers, but with us, even us, who are all of us here alive this day."

I think you might want to look at the context. In Deuteronomy, all of the people who were over 20 at Mt. Sinai had died in the wilderness. God most certainly had made the covenant with their fathers. So what does this mean? Moses was emphasizing to them that the covenant wasn't only with their fathers, but with them also.

Point 2 fails because of ignoring context.

Now I expect..."Well Jesus and the Apostles did it so should we...". But it must be known and admitted that before the Babylonian Captivity this was never the practice according to God's commandments

See Lev. 23:3. And if you don't know what a holy convocation is, then I suggest you either use a more modern translation or learn Elizabethan English properly.

so we find it saying Jesus attended the synagogue on the Sabbath "as was His custom" and after his manner (cultural tradition) Paul also did this...

The synagogues may have been cultural, but the holy convocation that was (and still is) held in them wasn't.

Now they also "as was their custom" celebrated the feast of dedication (again not Torah) and in accordance with Torah as Rabbis Jesus and Paul wore the Tzit Tzit...so if the reasoning that because it was their tradition is why we also should then we must at once begin celebrating Chanukah and preparing our Pastors to where the proper robes...this is an absurd argument...

Chanukah isn't commanded in the Bible, but tzitzit are. You seem to be confusing culture with Biblical commandments.

Finally I find most 7th day Adventists tie Genesis 2 to Exodus 12 which is an error for two reasons...one as I already pointed out is that Gen 2 merely reflects the ceasing from action on God's part...a particular action (for He never slumbers or sleeps and requires no rest)...nothing here about what man should do or does...the second error is in the assumption of days...the calendar from Genesis ceases in Exodus 12 and YHVH Himself commands Moses that the day He spoke to him was a new 1st of all days in a new 1st of all months...never before utilized or else the word "new" makes God a liar (God forbid)

When God tells Moses (and we do not know on what weekday He spoke to him) "And the Lord spake unto Moses and Aaron in the land of Egypt saying, This month shall be unto you the beginning of months: it shall be the first month of the year to you", God changes the times. The first day of this NEW month (Nisan) was the new first day they were to begin counting 7 days...so the 7th day Sabbath given at Horeb has nothing to do with (zero, zilch) the shaw-vath of Genesis 2...

First of all, where do you see the word "new" in that chapter? Secondly, it doesn't say the days of the week changed, nor that the calendar had never been used before. It just says that the month of the aviv barley should be the first month.

I will leave you with this for starters..all that I said is verifiable, word based, and true...

See above.

I would like to ask any who disagrees, to please produce Torah which commands people to gather together in one place for corporate worship on the 7th day...I say since there is none we are not bound to do so...but if it is your custom that is fine (it is not mine)

I already did above, but here it is again.

Six days shall work be done, but on the seventh day is a Sabbath of solemn rest, a holy convocation. You shall do no work. It is a Sabbath to the Lord in all your dwelling places. (Lev. 23:3 ESV)​

And for those who can't be bothered to look up what "convocation" means...

Work may be done for six days, but on the seventh day there must be a Sabbath of complete rest, a sacred assembly. You are not to do any work; it is a Sabbath to the Lord wherever you live. (Lev. 23:3 HCSB)​

The TOG​
 
if they did the jews wouldn't need a reminder that the failure to do so would have a death penalty.

You do not necessarily fail in DOING or NOT DOING something. You can fail in things that are not directly tied to DOING something.

Sabbath goes way beyond to DOING or NOT DOING. You can fail Sabbath in your heart.
 
You do not necessarily fail in DOING or NOT DOING something. You can fail in things that are not directly tied to DOING something.

Sabbath goes way beyond to DOING or NOT DOING. You can fail Sabbath in your heart.
that's not the point. the shabat wasn't commanded to the Hebrews children ere the mount Horeb expericience. if you noticed that God sought to slay moses for not circumizing his son. yet when the children asked moses we caught a jewish woman working on the shabat they had to ask what was the punishment
 
that's not the point. the shabat wasn't commanded to the Hebrews children ere the mount Horeb expericience. if you noticed that God sought to slay moses for not circumizing his son. yet when the children asked moses we caught a jewish woman working on the shabat they had to ask what was the punishment

It sounds to me you are looking for a commandment, right?
 
It sounds to me you are looking for a commandment, right?
yes, the torah would be in oral law or written. the sages would have said that command in the seven noahide law. theres none. remember Genesis is written from the exodus experience of moses.
 
You are a christian, you do not have commandments.

And if you understand that, you aslo understand Sabbath, and how Adam and Eva failed it. Right?
im a Hebrew. if anyone would be under the law I would. you are gentile. were you at horeb? my lineage was. the promise was made to me.i have asked jews on this and the teach exactly what I said. no goy was made to do the shabat unless they become a Hebrew. the seven noahide laws!
 
You are a christian, you do not have commandments.

Are you sure about that?

For neither circumcision counts for anything nor uncircumcision, but keeping the commandments of God. (I Cor. 7:19 ESV)

And by this we know that we have come to know him, if we keep his commandments. Whoever says “I know him” but does not keep his commandments is a liar, and the truth is not in him (I John 2:3-4 ESV)

Beloved, if our heart does not condemn us, we have confidence before God; and whatever we ask we receive from him, because we keep his commandments and do what pleases him. (I John 3:21-22 ESV)

By this we know that we love the children of God, when we love God and obey his commandments. For this is the love of God, that we keep his commandments. And his commandments are not burdensome.
(I John 5:2-3 ESV)

Here is a call for the endurance of the saints, those who keep the commandments of God and their faith in Jesus. (Rev. 14:12 ESV)
Looks to me like God wants us to keep His commandments.

The TOG​
 
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