The Scriptures

[Edward]

Saul on the road to Damascus did not hear an audible voice. We know that because those with Saul did not hear it.

I don't think you can really say that for sure. When Jesus met the disciples on the road to Emmaus, it said their eyes were beholden or something, meaning they were restrained from recognizing Jesus. Jesus could have restrained them from hearing Him talk to Saul audibly. It could have been audible.

 

[K2CHRIST]

You didn't see it? There's a context to it. With your message to listen to God, you've included the distinct view that scriptures are not His word. And arguably that's ... well that's something to consider. The first post hugs the idea of discrediting scripture in order to focus kore on hearing the word of God.

The second post though, it's not just context though.

"I could not find anywhere that it is written to preach the Scriptures. However a couple of verses later we are told to preach the Word."

In the context given there's no difference between preach and teach. Do you see where I'm going with this?

...

We can't all be hearing God unless He talks to us. That's not something we do it's something God does.

I'm not sure I do know where you are going with this, but I do want to point out that He is talking to us.

Rev 3:20 Behold I stand at the door and knock and if anyone hears my voice and opens the door...

According to the above verse He is just standing there and knocking with His voice. And that verse is clear about being to anyone!!

God is Omni-present, and He holds all things together with His hands. So God can be talking to all of us now, and according to the verse we need hear His voice and open the door. That is not something He does, but rather something we have to do. I don't think that act can be called "Work". It is really just being open to Him by listening to Him. That is our part.

Of course if we do listen, He might reprove us and He might give us something to do. And if we did believe that little voice was indeed God, we would probably do it or at least try. So James wrote about doing works though we know we are not saved by works. We are saved by faith. We see that in John 3:16 where "whosoever" believes in Him will be saved. Again "whosoever" would mean "whosoever". Therefore nobody could be excluded for it to be "whosoever", just like nobody could be excluded for it to be "anyone".

But it doesn't mean everyone. We have a free will. Someone wouldn't have to believe and be open to the Lord and His voice. What are those silly cartoons we sometime see where a man has a devil on one shoulder and an angel on the other. Do we ever stop to think of why we have them and relate to them. We have a better idea of what is going on than we confess. We just don't like listening to the voice of God and opening up ourselves to seeking Him and His voice. That little angel wants to reprove us. And isn't it interesting that the verse right before Rev 3: 20 addresses that problem.

Rev 3:19 Those whom I love, I reprove and discipline; be zealous therefore, and repent.

So it seems the reproof might be what comes next, which would be Him there knocking with His voice and us not listening to Him knocking with His voice and opening the door. And that is what I am getting at.

 

[K2CHRIST]

The scriptures are the word of God.


JLB

We call the Scriptures the word of God because God inspired their being written. In fact we can see where God literally told someone to write down something, which became Scriptures. However try to actually support your statement that the Scriptures are the word of God with a Scriptures. Good luck! Because what you will find is that Jesus is normally called the Word of God.

Now someone's word is something they say, but the phrase 'Word of God", or "word of the Lord" doesn't really go to the Scriptures but rather Jesus Christ. That is what you will find if you try and support your statement. You might find where you had thought the phrase meant the Scriptures only to find out that it makes more sense if it applies to Jesus Christ,.

Let me give you some help:

Jn 1:1 In the beginning was the Word and the Word was with God and the Word was God. He was in the beginning with God.

Well, that is certainly Jesus Christ, and is certainly not the Scriptures. But it is the most famous use of the Word.

How about Gen 15:1 After these things the word of the Lord came unto Abram in a vision, saying....
That is not the Scripture, but it read pretty good if we put in the name "Jesus Christ"

"After these things Jesus Christ came unto Abram in a vision, saying..."

We can do that because of Rev 19:13 He is clothed with a robe dipped in blood and His name is called, "The Word of God".

So we take His name "The word of God" and put it in where we find 'the word of the Lord'.

If we do a search in the Scriptures for 'word of the Lordc' we find we can do that all over the places and it makes sense. But it would not make sense if we put in the Scriptures instead

Num 3:16 And Moses numbered them according to the word of the Lord, as he was commanded

So we would have - And Moses numbered them according to Jesus Christ, as he was commanded.

Or we would have - And Moses numbered them according to the Scriptures, as he was commanded.

We try to do that second one, That is we try to live by what we read in the Scriptures, as we are commanded, instead of trying to live by hearing the Lord by faith. But there were no Scriptures (sacred writings) until Moses started writing them. We know that Moses was hearing from the Lord. And if you now think you are to number everyone, because it is written in the Bible, what about how David got in trouble for numbering the people. So it was the right thing for Moses to do, but not David. God doesn't change, but He has reason for what He personally tells each person to do. So the point is that God personally gives us commands. That is what the sacred writing are trying to explain. Do we have an ear to hear? That is what the Lord asked!

 

[K2CHRIST]

I don't think you can really say that for sure. When Jesus met the disciples on the road to Emmaus, it said their eyes were beholden or something, meaning they were restrained from recognizing Jesus. Jesus could have restrained them from hearing Him talk to Saul audibly. It could have been audible.

Obviously God could have done lots of things. But why are we going to make conclusions that have to be complicated? The real obvious thing is that because we know that God's words are spirit (not sound waves) and we know that with theirs ears they don't hear (we see that in numerous places) then we would not expect them to hear if God talked to Saul, but perhaps they would pick up something in their spirit. And that is what we saw happen. It is also what we saw happen with Moses and God's people at the foot of the mountain. But if that wasn't enough, we ourselves should be hearing the Lord regularly. And I hear the Lord talking to me a lot with the small voice but know body else hears it when I hear it. However I have had cases in ministry where two of us hear the same thing from the small voice at the same time, though neither one of us heard Him speaking to the other. Everything points to the audible voice of God just being a louder version of the small voice.

In fact one time I was lying down on my couch and I heard Christian music. So I got up to find out where it was coming from. But the instant I got up it was not there. So I lay back down and heard the music again. Again I got up and I couldn't hear it. It did it a couple more times before I finally figured out that I was hearing the music with my spiritual ears and not my physical ears. It was so clear that I really thought it was my physical ears, but by testing it over and over I could determine that it was not.

So I am not saying that God could not generate sound waves, but since it is written that His words are spirit He would actually have to go against what He had written in the Scriptures to do that. So studying the Scriptures does actually help us understand what is happening around us. We say that but often to realize what we don't yet understanding, even after reading the Scriptures. So understand comes from God not our understanding.

 

[Edward]

Well there's that story in scripture...Samuel and Eli? he Lord called to the boy and he went to the other guy and said what? You called me. He said no I didn't go to bed. He did that 3 times and He realized the boy was hearing from God so told him to answer back here I am Lord, if it happened again...and it did.

I'm not sure why you would conclude that spirits cant make sound waves, lol. Why not? Is there no speaking in heaven?

 

[JLB]

We call the Scriptures the word of God because God inspired their being written.

Yes.

Now someone's word is something they say, but the phrase 'Word of God", or "word of the Lord" doesn't really go to the Scriptures but rather Jesus Christ. That is what you will find if you try and support your statement. You might find where you had thought the phrase meant the Scriptures only to find out that it makes more sense if it applies to Jesus Christ,.

I said Jesus inspired the scriptures.

He is the message, The word of God, that Moses faithfully gave us in the scriptures.


JLB

 

[Edward]

There's a lot of insight into this topic in the story of Samuel and Eli. The pertinent part is 1 Samuel 3:1-11

After re-reading this, this morning, I feel as if it would be wrong to think that not everyone can hear the voice of God and so forth as has been put forth here. But rather, we should believe and accept that God can and does speak to whom He will, in the way that He will, and as servants of the Lord God, we would do good if we were to hold the expectation that the Lord will speak to us. We serve Him, we seek Him and to learn of His ways, we pray to Him...why wouldn't we expect that He would speak to us at some point?

Even the still small voice. Have you ever spoken back to it when it seems to tell you something? I have. Sometimes I'll say, is that you, Father? What are you saying to me Father? Or something similar. Then be still and listen.

 

[K2CHRIST]

Well there's that story in scripture...Samuel and Eli? he Lord called to the boy and he went to the other guy and said what? You called me. He said no I didn't go to bed. He did that 3 times and He realized the boy was hearing from God so told him to answer back here I am Lord, if it happened again...and it did.

I'm not sure why you would conclude that spirits cant make sound waves, lol. Why not? Is there no speaking in heaven?

Since it is written that His word are spirit, then the assumption would be to think what Samuel said not words he heard in his spirit.
Samuel might indeed have made that assumption also, having not been familiar and trained up in those things at that time. How far away do you think Eli was from Samuel? It doesn't seem like Eli was far away, but Eli didn't hear the voice of the Lord.

Not only did Eli not hear it but Eli (who should have been familiar with the things of God) did not seem to make any attempt to listen for the voice of the Lord calling to Samuel, but instead just told Samuel how to respond if he heard it again.

So let me ask. If you were in the next room and I was telling you that I was hearing the audible voice of God at a time when it was rarely heard, would you not want to get to a place where you could hear it also. If I was closer to a location where I could see the total Eclipse today I would certainly want to get to where I could see it, because it is a rare event. But Eli didn't take such and action. I think Eli knew perfectly well the God's voice was spirit and not sound wave. That would explain his actions, while the other would not.

Romans 10:8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" - that is, the word of faith which we are preaching

It is not like you are going to hear the word of God that comes to me in my heart. And if it comes out of my mouth are you going to believe it is God or are you going to think that it is just me? By thinking that what Samuel heard was sound waves does not seem to matchu up to the teachings we read in the Bible.

 

[Edward]

Since it is written that His word are spirit, then the assumption would be to think what Samuel said not words he heard in his spirit.
Samuel might indeed have made that assumption also, having not been familiar and trained up in those things at that time. How far away do you think Eli was from Samuel? It doesn't seem like Eli was far away, but Eli didn't hear the voice of the Lord.

Not only did Eli not hear it but Eli (who should have been familiar with the things of God) did not seem to make any attempt to listen for the voice of the Lord calling to Samuel, but instead just told Samuel how to respond if he heard it again.

So let me ask. If you were in the next room and I was telling you that I was hearing the audible voice of God at a time when it was rarely heard, would you not want to get to a place where you could hear it also. If I was closer to a location where I could see the total Eclipse today I would certainly want to get to where I could see it, because it is a rare event. But Eli didn't take such and action. I think Eli knew perfectly well the God's voice was spirit and not sound wave. That would explain his actions, while the other would not.

Mmmmmmaybe. Not sure. Matthew Henry's commentary on this passage conjectures that perhaps Eli could have been a little...offended or discouraged that the Lord went to Samuel to speak and not through him...but at least Eli did give the proper instruction to the lad in case it happened again...?

It's hard to know for sure about this because normal audible hearing is received by us (and "heard") inside of our head, not outside of it. So was it in his head, or in his head audibly? Same place lol. I think the important thing here, is to understand your position in Christ and pray unceasingly as scripture says, but don't not expect for God to answer. Don't be surprised if He does answer!

I'd like to hear about when God spoke to you audibly, if it isn't too personal?

 

[WIP]

Saul on the road to Damascus did not hear an audible voice. We know that because those with Saul did not hear it. They only knew something was going on.

As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?” And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads.” So he, trembling and astonished, said, “Lord, what do You want me to do?” Then the Lord said to him, “Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.” And the men who journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice but seeing no one. Then Saul arose from the ground, and when his eyes were opened he saw no one. Acts 9:3-8 NKJV

The people Moses brought to the mountain of God heard thunder while Moses heard the words. Both those things are explained by God's voice being spiritual, but not sound waves.

Now all the people witnessed the thunderings, the lightning flashes, the sound of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking; and when the people saw it, they trembled and stood afar off. Then they said to Moses, “You speak with us, and we will hear; but let not God speak with us, lest we die.” And Moses said to the people, “Do not fear; for God has come to test you, and that His fear may be before you, so that you may not sin.” So the people stood afar off, but Moses drew near the thick darkness where God was. Then the Lord said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: ‘You have seen that I have talked with you from heaven. …” Exodus 20:18-26 NKJV

 

[JLB]

As he journeyed he came near Damascus, and suddenly a light shone around him from heaven. Then he fell to the ground, and heard a voice saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting Me?” And he said, “Who are You, Lord?” Then the Lord said, “I am Jesus, whom you are persecuting. It is hard for you to kick against the goads.” So he, trembling and astonished, said, “Lord, what do You want me to do?” Then the Lord said to him, “Arise and go into the city, and you will be told what you must do.” And the men who journeyed with him stood speechless, hearing a voice but seeing no one. Then Saul arose from the ground, and when his eyes were opened he saw no one. Acts 9:3-8 NKJV





Now all the people witnessed the thunderings, the lightning flashes, the sound of the trumpet, and the mountain smoking; and when the people saw it, they trembled and stood afar off. Then they said to Moses, “You speak with us, and we will hear; but let not God speak with us, lest we die.” And Moses said to the people, “Do not fear; for God has come to test you, and that His fear may be before you, so that you may not sin.” So the people stood afar off, but Moses drew near the thick darkness where God was. Then the Lord said to Moses, “Thus you shall say to the children of Israel: ‘You have seen that I have talked with you from heaven. …” Exodus 20:18-26 NKJV

 

[chessman]

I don't speak Greek, so I have to look it all up.

But Paul did.

Acts 9:29 And he was speaking and debating with the Greek-speaking Jews, but they were trying to do away with him.​

we know that with theirs ears they don't hear

Acts 9:4, 7 And falling to the ground, he heard a __?___. saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” ...
...
Now the men ['Jews of authority sent by the tribune of the Chief Priests to accompany Paul] who were traveling together with him stood speechless, because they heard the __?__ but saw no one. ​

A. Voice
B. Spirit
C. Sound

we would not expect them to hear if God talked to Saul

Umm, the Text literally says Saul heard Jesus' "voice". So did Saul's fellow Jewish travelers.

Did Jesus' voice say; “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?" in Greek (which Paul knew) or in Aramaic (which most Jews spoke)?

Acts 21:37-40 And as he was about to be brought into the barracks, Paul said to the military tribune, “Is it permitted for me to say something to you?” And he said, “Do you know Greek? ... Now I ask you, allow me to speak to the people.” So when he permitted him, Paul, standing there on the steps, motioned with his hand to the people. And when there was a great silence, he addressed them in the Aramaic language, saying,​

 

[K2CHRIST]

But Paul did.

Acts 9:29 And he was speaking and debating with the Greek-speaking Jews, but they were trying to do away with him.​

Acts 9:4, 7 And falling to the ground, he heard a __?___. saying to him, “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?” ...
...
Now the men ['Jews of authority sent by the tribune of the Chief Priests to accompany Paul] who were traveling together with him stood speechless, because they heard the __?__ but saw no one. ​

A. Voice
B. Spirit
C. Sound



Umm, the Text literally says Saul heard Jesus' "voice". So did Saul's fellow Jewish travelers.

Did Jesus' voice say; “Saul, Saul, why are you persecuting me?" in Greek (which Paul knew) or in Aramaic (which most Jews spoke)?

Acts 21:37-40 And as he was about to be brought into the barracks, Paul said to the military tribune, “Is it permitted for me to say something to you?” And he said, “Do you know Greek? ... Now I ask you, allow me to speak to the people.” So when he permitted him, Paul, standing there on the steps, motioned with his hand to the people. And when there was a great silence, he addressed them in the Aramaic language, saying,​

ACTS 22:9 And those who were with me saw the light, to be sure, but did not understand the voice of the One who was speaking to me.

We see this same type of thing during the Exodus

Ex 20:18 All the people perceived the thunder and the lighting flashes and the sound of the trumpet and the mountain smoking; and when the people saw it, they trembled and stood at a distance

And Deut 5:24 ... and we have heard His voice from the midst of the fire; we have seen today that God speaks with man...

And Deut 6:3 O Isreal, you should listen and be careful to do it.

Yet we also see Deut 9:22... you neither believed Him nor listened to His voice
And Deut 29:4 Yet to this day the Lord has not given you a heart to know, nor eyes to see, nor ears to hear.
And also Deut 30:14 But the word is near you, in your mouth and in your heart, that you may observe it.

Which is like Paul wrote 10:8 But what does it say? "THE WORD IS NEAR YOU, in your mouth and in your heart" - that is, the word of faith which we are preaching.

So in both cases the people around those that heard word from the Lord heard a voice but they did not understand the voice.
And the word of God is found in your heart and in your mouth. Now if it had been sound waves, they would have understood the voice, but because it was a spiritual voice coming to them they did not. Moses comments on this by explaining that "the Lord has not given you a heart to know, nor eyes to see, nor ears to hear.

Paul hear the words! Moses heard the words! Those with them heard a voice but did not understand the voice. They had not been given a heart to know. Since we pick up the word of God in our heart, because they are spiritual words not sound waves, you have to have a heart to know.

Jesus covers this with the Pharisees also,

Jn 8:43 Why do you not understand what I am saying? It is because you cannot hear My word.

Now Jesus was in the flesh and speaking sound waves to them and clearly they could hear those words. So what was He talking about, telling them they couldn't hear them. Of course they could hear the sound waves. What they couldn't hear were the words of God in their heart. They didn't have a heart to know. So Jesus continued to explain saying (Jn 8:47) He who is of God hears the words of God; for this reason you do not hear them, because you are not of God."

Now Christian, or at least many Christians, hear what we call the small voice of the Lord. It is not sound waves, but is a voice that comes from inside us; from in our heart spiritually speaking. Sometimes that voice is clearer and sometimes it is not. God can make it louder to us. And we find many at church that never have heard the small voice of the Lord have felt HIs presence. Well those at the foot of the mountain felt HIs presence powerfully, and so did those traveling with Saul, but they did not understand the voice. God had not yet given them a heart to know, eyes to see, nor ears to hear.

So you might hear Christians say, 'I feel lead' and that is the voice of God to them. Like those at the foot of the mountain, they are being lead by God and are a chosen people, but still we are preaching the Word of God and that which is "in your mouth and in your heart" , not just a feeling that we recognize as the voice of God, nor are we preaching that God is communicating by sound waves coming from a place not in your midst. Yet some are preaching the Word of God that way. Do they have a heart to know?

 

[K2CHRIST]

There's a lot of insight into this topic in the story of Samuel and Eli. The pertinent part is 1 Samuel 3:1-11

After re-reading this, this morning, I feel as if it would be wrong to think that not everyone can hear the voice of God and so forth as has been put forth here. But rather, we should believe and accept that God can and does speak to whom He will, in the way that He will, and as servants of the Lord God, we would do good if we were to hold the expectation that the Lord will speak to us. We serve Him, we seek Him and to learn of His ways, we pray to Him...why wouldn't we expect that He would speak to us at some point?

Even the still small voice. Have you ever spoken back to it when it seems to tell you something? I have. Sometimes I'll say, is that you, Father? What are you saying to me Father? Or something similar. Then be still and listen.

This is awesome and is exactly correct!!!

 

[Edward]

Thanks Brother. I can't help but feel as if we're all in the remedial spirituality class here though, lol. Slow learners we are.

 

[K2CHRIST]

Thanks Brother. I can't help but feel as if we're all in the remedial spirituality class here though, lol. Slow learners we are.

We all are actually in a remedial class when you think about it, and also if we spend time listening to the Lord Jesus Christ and His Kingdom. As "the Word" written about John 1:1, He was in the beginning with God and was God, but He learned obedience at the cross. So even He was still learning. We are not God and have not been around hardly anytime at all, so thinking one person is in a remedial class and another isn't really doesn't make sense. It's more like one person just entered Kindergarten and the other is getting close to graduating Kindergarten. And note: Jesus had learned that understanding the depts. of God was not even for Him (the perfect image of the invisible God) and thing to be grasped. Isn't that why He explained that He did and said only what the Father told Him? So listening and doing only what the Father tells us would be what someone who in the most advanced class. Or how else can we explain the Jesus came down out of heaven, went to the cross, and said not My will but yours be done?