The Seals of Rev 6

[Douglas Summers]

I never said it wasn't written for His servants. I said are not all of us His servants, which means you me and everyone else that have picked up their cross to follow Jesus.

Yes, we should have that character in us. But in Revelations, this is specific to his servants who will be alive when these things take place. The Revelation of Jesus Christ will reveal many of it's mysteries to those who have the book when these things occur.

 

[for_his_glory]

Yes, we should have that character in us. But in Revelations, this is specific to his servants who will be alive when these things take place. The Revelation of Jesus Christ will reveal many of it's mysteries to those who have the book when these things occur.

If we are suppose to be Raptured out before the tribulation then who would be left to take the gospel message to the word. No where in scripture does it say God will hold back some when the rest are caught up to Jesus. Many of Gods mysteries are being revealed even now to many of us who will have Spiritual eyes and ears to hear and see what the Spirit of God is revealing. Did not Jesus give us signs to look for His return as things which need to come first.

 

[Douglas Summers]

If we are suppose to be Raptured out before the tribulation then who would be left to take the gospel message to the word. No where in scripture does it say God will hold back some when the rest are caught up to Jesus. Many of Gods mysteries are being revealed even now to many of us who will have Spiritual eyes and ears to hear and see what the Spirit of God is revealing. Did not Jesus give us signs to look for His return as things which need to come first.

Matt. 24:40-41. Why do you think He anointed the 144,000 Jews after the church is raptured? He says (2 Thes. 2:7-8) That the mystery of lawlessness is already at work, but only He who NOW restrains will do so until He is taken out of the way. (Christ Spiritual body (His Church). Then shall that wicked one be revealed (Rev. 19:20) compare (2 Thes. 2:3-5) (whom the Lord will consume with the Spirit of His mouth and shall destroy with the brightness of His coming. Study the Scripture please.

 

[for_his_glory]

Douglas, There are three things we disagree on, Rapture, literal 1000 years and who it is that is restrained for the moment, and we probably never will agree on since we have shared with each other our differences of belief. It's time to move past all of this and get back to the OP that pertains to the six seals as being signs that Jesus told us to look for before His return as many do scoff at them saying we have always had theses things, but do not recognize the greater global scale.

 

[for_his_glory]

The disciples asked Jesus three questions in Matthew 24:3 Tell us, when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? Jesus gives them the answers starting in verse 4 in a summary form in the rest of the chapter and explained in greater detail in Revelations. Jesus sent an angel to John to write down in a book all the visions he would be given and give those writings to the seven churches in Asia.

In the beginning of Revelations we read that seven angels (stars) went to the seven churches (seven candlesticks) in Asia for a specific message to each one. These angels are that of the seven spirits that surround the throne of God which are the seven spirits of wisdom, understanding, counsel, knowledge, reverence, might and the spirit of the Lord, Isaiah 11:1, 2; Rev 1:4. These seven churches represent the Spiritual body of Christ just as we are still today through that of the Spiritual rebirth and the indwelling of the Holy Spirit who are also given these seven spirits to keep us in the will of God.

Beginning in Rev 5 we read that only Jesus is worthy of opening the seven seals and in Rev 6 Jesus proceeds to show John what each seal represents as these are the beginning of sorrows Jesus spoke of in Matthew 24:4-8. At the end of the sixth seal, Rev 6:17 it says for the great day of His wrath is come as then will be the beginning of the seven trumpets which will sound ushering in the three woes in Revelations as each one is worse than the other. The first one starts with the opening of the seventh seal in Rev 8:1 through Rev 9:12 that include the first five trumpets. The second woe starts in Rev 9:13 with the sixth trumpet and ends in Rev 11:14. The third woe starts with the seventh trumpet in Rev 11:15 ending in Rev 20:15.

 

[Diego]

I don't see the white horse representing some thing evil or deceptive. The white horse represnts the purity and victory of the gospel conquoring the idolatrous world through the apostles.

 

[for_his_glory]

I don't see the white horse representing some thing evil or deceptive. The white horse represnts the purity and victory of the gospel conquoring the idolatrous world through the apostles.

White horse represents a rider with great power and authority as in early wars where Generals would always ride a white horse as they went forth conquering and to conquer. The rider of this white horse is a false Christ: Matthew 24:5, 24; Revelation 19:11-15

When comparing scripture with scripture we see that this rider on a white horse is a form of antichrist in being a false christ that goes to conquer or in another sense deceive those in believing he is the true Christ causing many to fall away from the Lord, Zechariah Chapter 6; 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Many see this white horse and rider being Jesus, but in Rev 19:11-15 we are given a different description of a white horse and who is sitting on it as being Jesus. Instead of a bow we read a sharp sword goes out of the mouth of Jesus, which is the word of truth.

 

[Diego]

White horse represents a rider with great power and authority as in early wars where Generals would always ride a white horse as they went forth conquering and to conquer. The rider of this white horse is a false Christ: Matthew 24:5, 24; Revelation 19:11-15

When comparing scripture with scripture we see that this rider on a white horse is a form of antichrist in being a false christ that goes to conquer or in another sense deceive those in believing he is the true Christ causing many to fall away from the Lord, Zechariah Chapter 6; 2 Thessalonians 2:3. Many see this white horse and rider being Jesus, but in Rev 19:11-15 we are given a different description of a white horse and who is sitting on it as being Jesus. Instead of a bow we read a sharp sword goes out of the mouth of Jesus, which is the word of truth.

If we compare spiritual things with spiritual things it's clear the white horse and rider with a bow is a representation of Christ. He was given a crown, authority in heaven and earth, he is the conqueror. If you read all the oldest writings from the early church on the 1st seal you see none of them said it was the anti Christ, they knew it was the gospel. Let's look at the connection with psalms 45, because you seem not to be aware of Christ represented with a bow

Psalm 45King James Version (KJV)
45 My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue is the pen of a ready writer.

2 Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever.

3 Gird thy sword upon thy thigh, O most mighty, with thy glory and thy majesty.

4 And in thy majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness and righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things.

5 Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby the people fall under thee.

6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

8 All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia, out of the ivory palaces, whereby they have made thee glad.

 

[for_his_glory]

If we compare spiritual things with spiritual things it's clear the white horse and rider with a bow is a representation of Christ. He was given a crown, authority in heaven and earth, he is the conqueror. If you read all the oldest writings from the early church on the 1st seal you see none of them said it was the anti Christ, they knew it was the gospel. Let's look at the connection with psalms 45, because you seem not to be aware of Christ represented with a bow

Psalm 45King James Version (KJV)
45 My heart is inditing a good matter: I speak of the things which I have made touching the king: my tongue is the pen of a ready writer.

2 Thou art fairer than the children of men: grace is poured into thy lips: therefore God hath blessed thee for ever.

3 Gird thy sword upon thy thigh, O most mighty, with thy glory and thy majesty.

4 And in thy majesty ride prosperously because of truth and meekness and righteousness; and thy right hand shall teach thee terrible things.

5 Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby the people fall under thee.

6 Thy throne, O God, is for ever and ever: the sceptre of thy kingdom is a right sceptre.

7 Thou lovest righteousness, and hatest wickedness: therefore God, thy God, hath anointed thee with the oil of gladness above thy fellows.

8 All thy garments smell of myrrh, and aloes, and cassia, out of the ivory palaces, whereby they have made thee glad.

Psalms 45 has nothing to do with the rider on the white horse in Rev 6:2 as this is a song of love directed towards the king as highly favored of God and his kingdom in vs. 7, and his soon to be bride in vs 11. Vs 5 Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby the people fall under thee. This verse mentions nothing of a bow, but only depicting how sharp the arrows, possibly meaning the power and authority he had over his enemies. You have to read the whole chapter and not just in part to understand the full context.

This rider on the white horse has a bow, but no arrows are mentioned. We never see Jesus associated with having a bow anywhere in scripture, but always having a sword coming out of His mouth that is the word of God. In scripture a sword represents the true word of God as in Spiritual warfare our weapon is the witness and testimony of Jesus, 2 Corinthians 10:4.

The bow having no arrows is symbolic of Satan conquering those who say they are Christians, but have never been Spiritually born again, John 3:5-7. They claim to be a Christian, but by name only, Matthew 7:21, and have no true knowledge of Gods word. Satan sends out his false prophets to preach a deceptive word and Globally has and will continue to conquer many who have not the Holy Spirit dwelling in them as they have no knowledge of the Holy Spirit and he will do anything to keep them that way.

The crown that is given him is not a literal crown, but symbolic in its meaning as it represents his own deceitful glory as a crown of glory is given to those in leadership, 1 Peter 5:1-5, but in this case Satan’s leadership as he goes forth conquering by using his false prophets to conquer by twisting the word of God deceiving those who have no Spiritual discernment and are blindsided by what they hear and read.

 

[Diego]

Psalms 45 has nothing to do with the rider on the white horse in Rev 6:2 as this is a song of love directed towards the king as highly favored of God and his kingdom in vs. 7, and his soon to be bride in vs 11. Vs 5 Thine arrows are sharp in the heart of the king's enemies; whereby the people fall under thee. This verse mentions nothing of a bow, but only depicting how sharp the arrows, possibly meaning the power and authority he had over his enemies. You have to read the whole chapter and not just in part to understand the full context.

This rider on the white horse has a bow, but no arrows are mentioned. We never see Jesus associated with having a bow anywhere in scripture, but always having a sword coming out of His mouth that is the word of God. In scripture a sword represents the true word of God as in Spiritual warfare our weapon is the witness and testimony of Jesus, 2 Corinthians 10:4.

The bow having no arrows is symbolic of Satan conquering those who say they are Christians, but have never been Spiritually born again, John 3:5-7. They claim to be a Christian, but by name only, Matthew 7:21, and have no true knowledge of Gods word. Satan sends out his false prophets to preach a deceptive word and Globally has and will continue to conquer many who have not the Holy Spirit dwelling in them as they have no knowledge of the Holy Spirit and he will do anything to keep them that way.

The crown that is given him is not a literal crown, but symbolic in its meaning as it represents his own deceitful glory as a crown of glory is given to those in leadership, 1 Peter 5:1-5, but in this case Satan’s leadership as he goes forth conquering by using his false prophets to conquer by twisting the word of God deceiving those who have no Spiritual discernment and are blindsided by what they hear and read.

Are you saying psalm 45 is not about Christ?? The entire chapter is about him, which can easily be proven. How can you say it has nothing to do when all the same imagery is shown of him riding victorious with a bow. And your defense is no bow is mentioned?? If the arrows are going in the hearts of God enemies that heavily implies a bow. You said Christ never is mentioned with a bow when I just showed you he was. Are you denying that is Christ in pa 45? If you are i can easily prove it is.The things people come up with just to "win an argument " . Too closed minded to the modern mainstream view of it, but you should read the ancient scholars and church fathers, none of them would blaspheme the Lord by calling him the anti Christ.

 

[for_his_glory]

Are you saying psalm 45 is not about Christ?? The entire chapter is about him, which can easily be proven. How can you say it has nothing to do when all the same imagery is shown of him riding victorious with a bow. And your defense is no bow is mentioned?? If the arrows are going in the hearts of God enemies that heavily implies a bow. You said Christ never is mentioned with a bow when I just showed you he was. Are you denying that is Christ in pa 45? If you are i can easily prove it is.The things people come up with just to "win an argument " . Too closed minded to the modern mainstream view of it, but you should read the ancient scholars and church fathers, none of them would blaspheme the Lord by calling him the anti Christ.

I'm sorry you have such a problem that I do not agree with you, but I just do not see any reference to Christ in that verse. Psalms 45 was written to the chief musician upon Shoshannim for the sons of Korah and Maschil. It's a song of love for the king who was highly favored of the people and the Lord and for his soon to be bride. I can see how many could reference this to Christ, but the wording speaks of a king, not the King Lord Jesus, grace is poured into his lips and God has blessed him forever. The king of this stature would have many enemies and the arrows that are mentioned are the same as referenced in Psalms 18:14; 120:4 and 2 Samuel 18:14, but yet have no reference to the rider in Rev 6:2. These arrows, which seem to me, are of that of the kings army going into battle against his enemies. Many kings back in that time were called God by their people as in reverence or respect, but never referred to the God of Heaven as the throne of this king and his kingdom was hoped to be for ever and ever as he was a true king who ruled over his kingdom.

 

[Rondmon]

2 Peter 3:1 This second epistle, beloved, I now write unto you; in both which I stir up your pure minds by way of remembrance:
2 Peter 3:2 That ye may be mindful of the words which were spoken before by the holy prophets, and of the commandment of us the apostles of the Lord and Saviour:
2 Peter 3:3 Knowing this first, that there shall come in the last days scoffers, walking after their own lusts,

Revelation 6:1-8
First seal - white horse, Matthew 24:5

Second seal - red horse Matthew 24:6

Third seal - black horse Matthew 24:7

Fourth seal - pale horse Matthew 24:8,9

The scoffers say we have always had wars and rumors of war, nations against nations, pestilences, and earth quakes and they are right about that, but do not see the greater sign even here in America that all these things are on a greater scale worldwide and not centrally located anymore as the increase is the beginning of sorrows spoken of in Matthew 24:1-13 and Rev Chapter six as I believe we are into the first six seals with the seventh seal getting closer that begins the seven trumpets sounding. Maybe in our life time or not, it is still coming and now is the time to be prepared for the return of the Lord.

They do not see that of antichrist who will promise peace and show great wonders in the sky that could even deceive the very elect if possible as this false prophet will show that of Christ coming in the air and many will see this false christ and take the mark of this beast, bowing down and worship the beast, Revelation chapter 13.

Why would anyone think that the Seals have been opened? Matthew 24:1-6 is from Jesus to 70 AD. Matthew 14:7-13 and 14 is the 2000 some odd years period from 70 AD to the Rapture, or till now if you like, plus until the end. Matthew 24:15-28 is the Tribulation period.

All three of those periods I just pointed out have a verse about false christs verse 5, false prophets verse 11 and THE False Christ and False Prophet in verse 24, Jesus is not repeating himself, many are just not understanding his instruction. Jesus says many shall come in my name and say I am Christ but....BUT the end is not yet. What should we associate that with ? The 70 AD Fall of Jerusalem. Jesus is warning the Disciples the End is not yet, but why? Because in the End Time, just like 70 AD, Jerusalem is to be Conquered, and Jesus is to return to save them, he will land on the Mt of Olives. So Jesus wanted them to know, many will come and say, I am Christ, but don't you believe it, stay away from Jerusalem, do not think I have come again, the END IS NOT YET !!

This fulfills Jesus' own prophecy unto the Pharisees.......John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. (This was unto the Pharisees of Jesus' time.)

So why would the Pharisees do this? Why bring forth a false Christ? They no doubt understood Rome was the Fourth Beast, thus they were looking for the Little Horn to come and destroy them, they knew he would arise out of /Fourth Beast/Rome, but had no idea it would be 2000 years later. So they tried to force the Messiah to the fore, one that would then save them from the Little Horn like Zechariah 14 says the Messiah will do, but Jesus warned them, the End is not yet. If the Disciples had com back to Jerusalem at that time they all no doubt would have been killed or taken away as slaves, so this was why Jesus warned them.

Then we have the 2000 some odd year period. There has been no doubt many a false prophet (Preacher/Rabbis) over the time-frame from 70 AD until now, lets just look at Jim Jones and David Koresh among many, many, many, many...Well you get the gist.

Then we jump to the Tribulation period in verses 15-28, this Anti-Christ and False Prophet are the REAL DEAL, they work wonders and miracles. So we have tree distinct time periods and three different mentions of false christs, false prophets and then both n vetse 24 who work Miracles ad wonders.

Then of course Jesus returns with the Church in tow, after the TRIBULATION in verses 29-31. Jesus told them in verse 28 where the Eagles would be at, where the CARCASS is at. In Rev. 19 we see the carcass is the MARRIAGE SUPPER, and they dine on the EVIL DOERS so to speak (its just a Metaphor of course).

As per the Seals, the First Seal is the Anti-Christ being allowed to come forth. That happens at the Midway point of the Tribulation period, or in Jacobs Troubles, the last week of the 70 week decree. No seals have been opened as of yet, there is no Anti Christ who has been revealed as yet. That can not happen of course until after the Rapture just like 2 Thessalonians 2 says, the Church must Depart, then the Man of Sin will be revealed.

The second seal is Peace being taken away from the earth, the third seal is of course starvation deaths, and the fourth seal is many, many deaths caused by the Anti-Christ. He slays a 1/4 of all mankind or causes their death via starvation etc. The 5th seal is the Beheaded under the Alter, they are those the REMNANT of the Church who died (Rev. 12) instead of taking the Mark of the Beast. They are told they must wait until their fellow servants have also died (or until the Beasts 42 Month reign is up). The 6th Seal is the SHAKING, the supernatural event that allows the people on earth to know that they are in the Day of the Lord, they have been since the FIRST SEAL, but of course did not know it. The sun turns dark, the moon blood red and the Heavens are Shaken (I think the Stars tat fall from Heaven is Satan and his Angels being cast out of Heaven SEE Rev. ch. 12).

The Seventh Seal of course is the Seven Trumpets and the Seventh Trumpet has the LAST WOE (Seven Vials) in it.

 

[for_his_glory]

Why would anyone think that the Seals have been opened? Matthew 24:1-6 is from Jesus to 70 AD. Matthew 14:7-13 and 14 is the 2000 some odd years period from 70 AD to the Rapture, or till now if you like, plus until the end. Matthew 24:15-28 is the Tribulation period.

All three of those periods I just pointed out have a verse about false christs verse 5, false prophets verse 11 and THE False Christ and False Prophet in verse 24, Jesus is not repeating himself, many are just not understanding his instruction. Jesus says many shall come in my name and say I am Christ but....BUT the end is not yet. What should we associate that with ? The 70 AD Fall of Jerusalem. Jesus is warning the Disciples the End is not yet, but why? Because in the End Time, just like 70 AD, Jerusalem is to be Conquered, and Jesus is to return to save them, he will land on the Mt of Olives. So Jesus wanted them to know, many will come and say, I am Christ, but don't you believe it, stay away from Jerusalem, do not think I have come again, the END IS NOT YET !!

This fulfills Jesus' own prophecy unto the Pharisees.......John 5:43 I am come in my Father's name, and ye receive me not: if another shall come in his own name, him ye will receive. (This was unto the Pharisees of Jesus' time.)

So why would the Pharisees do this? Why bring forth a false Christ? They no doubt understood Rome was the Fourth Beast, thus they were looking for the Little Horn to come and destroy them, they knew he would arise out of /Fourth Beast/Rome, but had no idea it would be 2000 years later. So they tried to force the Messiah to the fore, one that would then save them from the Little Horn like Zechariah 14 says the Messiah will do, but Jesus warned them, the End is not yet. If the Disciples had com back to Jerusalem at that time they all no doubt would have been killed or taken away as slaves, so this was why Jesus warned them.

Then we have the 2000 some odd year period. There has been no doubt many a false prophet (Preacher/Rabbis) over the time-frame from 70 AD until now, lets just look at Jim Jones and David Koresh among many, many, many, many...Well you get the gist.

Then we jump to the Tribulation period in verses 15-28, this Anti-Christ and False Prophet are the REAL DEAL, they work wonders and miracles. So we have tree distinct time periods and three different mentions of false christs, false prophets and then both n vetse 24 who work Miracles ad wonders.

Then of course Jesus returns with the Church in tow, after the TRIBULATION in verses 29-31. Jesus told them in verse 28 where the Eagles would be at, where the CARCASS is at. In Rev. 19 we see the carcass is the MARRIAGE SUPPER, and they dine on the EVIL DOERS so to speak (its just a Metaphor of course).

As per the Seals, the First Seal is the Anti-Christ being allowed to come forth. That happens at the Midway point of the Tribulation period, or in Jacobs Troubles, the last week of the 70 week decree. No seals have been opened as of yet, there is no Anti Christ who has been revealed as yet. That can not happen of course until after the Rapture just like 2 Thessalonians 2 says, the Church must Depart, then the Man of Sin will be revealed.

The second seal is Peace being taken away from the earth, the third seal is of course starvation deaths, and the fourth seal is many, many deaths caused by the Anti-Christ. He slays a 1/4 of all mankind or causes their death via starvation etc. The 5th seal is the Beheaded under the Alter, they are those the REMNANT of the Church who died (Rev. 12) instead of taking the Mark of the Beast. They are told they must wait until their fellow servants have also died (or until the Beasts 42 Month reign is up). The 6th Seal is the SHAKING, the supernatural event that allows the people on earth to know that they are in the Day of the Lord, they have been since the FIRST SEAL, but of course did not know it. The sun turns dark, the moon blood red and the Heavens are Shaken (I think the Stars tat fall from Heaven is Satan and his Angels being cast out of Heaven SEE Rev. ch. 12).

The Seventh Seal of course is the Seven Trumpets and the Seventh Trumpet has the LAST WOE (Seven Vials) in it.

Remember the disciples asked three questions in Matthew 24:3 when shall these things be? and what shall be the sign of thy coming, and of the end of the world? Jesus proceeds to tell them things that must come first, but it not being the end yet.

When you understand what each rider in Rev 6 1-8 represents you will see that on today's scale these things have escalated not just central to Israel as the disciples would understand, but on a global scale as even now there are many claiming to be Christ and many false prophets out there, but the son of perdition has not yet taken his throne but that too will be in Gods timing and we can study that in Rev Chapter 13.

These first four seals I believe have been opened by Jesus who is the only one that can open them, Rev Chapter 5. They have spanned many generations and will continue even into the seven trumpets sounding. Rev 6:9-11 the fifth seal, the question is when will the martyr's be avenged. This will start with the sixth seal being opened with a massive earthquake that will lead into the beginning of the seven trumpets sounding.

Remember, everything is in Gods timing even the return of Christ for no one knows when that will be, Matthew 24:36, but we are given signs to watch out for before Christ does return. Could be in our life or maybe not as no one knows as we are just to be prepared for His return.

Rev 19 the marriage supper of the Lamb comes when Christ returns with Hia army of angels from heaven as at that time we are caught up to meet Him in the air, 1 Corinthians 15:51-58; 1 Thessalonians 4:13-18. Christ will first take the beast and the false prophet being the son of perdition, 2 Thessalonians 2:3, and cast them into the lake of fire followed by taking the remnant being the kings (global rulers of a political, economic and religious system) of all nations that have followed the beast and false prophet and will kill them just by speaking it to be and the fowls of the air will feast on them.
.

1 John 2:18 Little children, it is the last time: and as ye have heard that antichrist shall come, even now are there many antichrists; whereby we know that it is the last time.

This scripture speaks of many antichrist not just one "Antichrist" and that we will know when the last time will be and that is when the son of perdition (last antichrist) takes his seat in the temple of God, 2 Thessalonians 2:1-9. Not actually the very Temple as there never will be a third Temple built by hands as the Dome of the Rock sits on it today and is making ready for the son of perdition to take his seat on the throne as he claims to be God and will force everyone to bow down to him and take his mark, Rev 13.

2 Thessalonians 2 says nothing about the Church being caught up before the son of perdition takes his throne.

2 Thessalonians 2:3 Let no man deceive you by any means: for that day shall not come, except there come a falling away first, and that man of sin be revealed, the son of perdition; 4 Who opposeth and exalteth himself above all that is called God, or that is worshipped; so that he as God sitteth in the temple of God, showing himself that he is God. 5 Remember ye not, that, when I was yet with you, I told you these things? 6 And now ye know what withholdeth that he might be revealed in his time. 7 For the mystery of iniquity doth already work: only he who now letteth will let, until he be taken out of the way. 8 And then shall that Wicked be revealed, whom the Lord shall consume with the spirit of his mouth, and shall destroy with the brightness of his comingRef: Rev 19:11-21)

There are three woes in Revelations as each one is worse than the other. The first one starts with the opening of the seventh seal in Rev 8:1 through Rev 9:12 that include the first five trumpets. The second woe starts in Rev 9:13 with the sixth trumpet and ends in Rev 11:14. The third woe starts with the seventh trumpet in Rev 11:15 ending in Rev 20:15.

 

[n2thelight]

It says it was written to his servants....why do you say it is not? You can not change things in Scripture without proof that it what you say it is. God never gave us the the responsibility of interpretation of Scripture. He gave us the Holy Spirit to reveal those things to us. You can teach what you want or believe, but without the wisdom of the Holy Spirit. You will own it.

You can't seperate Israel from the Church as Israel has always been the Church.

 

[n2thelight]

The Spirit doesn't dispute what you posted. But the body of Christ is the Church. The Jew and the Gentile being made into one new man. (Eph. 2:13-15) On this we agree. What we do not agree on is the purpose and position of the church in the Kingdom of God apart from Israel. The Church (body of Christ) are heirs with Christ and adult sons of the Father who will rule with Christ as kings and priest (Rom. 8:14-17) over the commonwealth of Israel during the 1000 year reign of peace. Those saved by the preaching of the 144,000 anointed Jews are not the Church. They are the commonwealth of the nation of Israel and some will serve the Lord in the temple in the New Jerusalem. They will serve Him day and night.

Who is Israel?

 

[Douglas Summers]

You can't seperate Israel from the Church as Israel has always been the Church.

Not the way you put it, but The Church will be the administration by rebirth as Sons of God and heirs to the throne with Christ. Romans Chapter 8. Epistles to the Ephesians, The Revelation of Jesus Christ. The Church is part of Israel and in the Kingdom, but is not the kingdom of Israel in itself. Just as Washington D.C. is not the United States, but is the Government of the United States.

 

[Douglas Summers]

Who is Israel?

Israel is the Promise of God to Abraham to make out of Him a nation of people (a peculiar people) that show forth the benefit of serving God. The whole OT is about The God of Israel. Other nations mentioned only as they touch Israel.

 

[n2thelight]

Israel is the Promise of God to Abraham to make out of Him a nation of people (a peculiar people) that show forth the benefit of serving God. The whole OT is about The God of Israel. Other nations mentioned only as they touch Israel.

Are we not all one?

Ephesians 2:14 "For he is our peace, Who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;"

The partition in the old Temple separated the Israelites [Jews] from the Gentile. At Christ's death on the cross, the earth shook, and the vial in the Temple was split in two, as recorded in Matthew 27:51. All barriers came down that blocked any person from approaching God through His Son, Jesus Christ. That wall of separation, separated the outer court from the inner court, and a Gentile could not walk past that wall. God's approach was through the holy of Holies, in the inner court, and the forgiveness of sins was only possible through the blood sacrifices offered there.

When Jesus shed His blood, all the blood sacrifices ended. Jesus Christ was the only sacrifice necessary to cover all sin, both then and now. Jesus is now the Temple, and when we are in Christ we become part of that body of Christ, or Temple.

Ephesians 2:15 "Having abolished in His flesh the enmity, even the law of commandments contained in ordinances; for to make in Himself of twain one new man, so making peace;"

In other words; there is only one temple, one family, one way through Jesus Christ. If you think it means "the law doesn't matter anymore", your wrong. The key to the understanding of this verse is stated," contained in ordinances". There is a difference between "the law", and "ordinances within the law".

This verse is directed to the ordinances of "blood sacrifice", also called "the daily sacrifices"that are within the law. These blood sacrifices are not required anymore. ever, because Jesus Christ's blood sacrificed on the cross satisfied completely that part of the law, before our Heavenly Father. Jesus was, and is the perfect sacrifice. See Hebrews 10.

Ephesians 2:16 "And that He might reconcile both unto God in one body by the cross, having slain the enmity thereby:"

All that believe and follow Christ now have this access to their creator.

Ephesians 2:17 "And came and preached peace to you which were afar off, and to them that were nigh."

Jesus preached His message to all flesh, Israelite and Gentile alike. Paul's ministry was directed wholly to the Gentile nations, and the lost "House of Israel", not the Jews [Acts 9:15].

Ephesians 2:18 "For through Him we both have access by one Spirit unto the Father."

This "one Spirit" is the "Holy Spirit", through Jesus Christ.

Ephesians 2:19 "Now therefore ye are no more strangers and foreigners, but fellow citizens with the saints, and of the household of God;"

Because of Jesus Christ's shed blood, we are fellow citizens in Christ's kingdom, His body, with all the other saints.

Ephesians 2:20 "And are built upon the foundation of the apostles and prophets, Jesus Christ Himself being the chief corner stone;"

The Apostles are those of the New Testament; while the Prophets were the teachers in the Old Testament. Jesus Christ is the foundation, and the "fit Temple" for all of God's children who seek after Him, in any age.

The "Chief corner stone" is the stone which all dimensions of the entire structure are measured to, and now in the Temple of God, Christ is that "chief corner stone". When we partition to the Father now, we must ask in the name of Jesus Christ, for there is none other.

Ephesians 2:21 "In whom all the building fitly framed together groweth unto an holy Temple in the Lord:"

In both the Old and New Testament Christ is named the center of the structure, the cap-stone of the Temple. The Temple of today is in two parts; one is false, and one is true. The "false temple" will be built shortly in Jerusalem, and it will be from that temple that Satan will rule as the Antichrist, over his world religious system. The way many Christians are taught today, when the Antichrist sits there they will actually believe and worship him as Jesus Christ. However, the Antichrist is a fake and a counterfeit.

When Jesus Christ came out of the tomb, He became our "True Temple", and His word is that Temple "fitly framed together". You need no other Temple than Jesus Christ, and in the Millennium age another Temple will be constructed from where Christ will rule and teach the world.

 

[n2thelight]

Israel is the Promise of God to Abraham to make out of Him a nation of people (a peculiar people) that show forth the benefit of serving God. The whole OT is about The God of Israel. Other nations mentioned only as they touch Israel.

Where are they now?

 

[Douglas Summers]

Are we not all one?

Ephesians 2:14 "For he is our peace, Who hath made both one, and hath broken down the middle wall of partition between us;"

One Scripture does not a doctrine make.
Yes, The Church, the body of Christ is all one in the body of Christ. He is speaking of the Church in the Epistles of the NT. The nation of Israel and the House of David will be rebuilt to her former glory after He has called out the Church with the Gentile.(Acts 15:13-18)